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Whew!!! Bill Clinton seething Anger at GOP over the MoveOn AD

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OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:01 PM
Original message
Whew!!! Bill Clinton seething Anger at GOP over the MoveOn AD
Wolf Blitzer showed an excerpt of Bill Clinton furious at
"Feigned Outrage" of the Republicans. In angry tones and
I mean angry tones, he explained how the Right did the smear
on Kerry and Max Cleland.

Former Pres. Bill Clinton is being interviewed on AC 380
tonight. You can see for yourself. 7 and 10pm

Too bad some Democrats in the House cannot get those angry
eyes fuming anger. Dems in the House Believe: It is easier
to comply with GOP than fight.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ah, yess but no doubt he supports his wife's current vote on Iran. This is just pandering.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yet Bill had none of his team counter the attacks on Cleland or Kerry the way
Kerry stood up for Bill in 1992 over draftdodging.

Bill mentioned it once on Daily Show during his book tour, but wouldn't say it on other book tour shows like Larry King where he gave vocal support to Bush's decisions on terrorism and Iraq war.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Can you believe this shit?
Unreal.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Doesn't surprise me one bit. n/t
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Inspired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
33. If anyone thinks that the Clintons were on Kerry's side in '04,
they are sadly mistaken.

Kerry losing that election was exactly what they wanted.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. According to historian Douglas Brinkley and Woodward's last book, you're right.
Funny how Bill had his book tour in June 2004 and then it was Bush who ended up with the good headlines from that book tour - Bill was so proud to stand up for Bush on terrorism and Iraq war against the left.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #36
50. If Bill had travelled around with Kerry you'd still blame him
get over it already.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #50
53. Why? Did the facts change since 2003 and 2004?
Edited on Thu Sep-27-07 08:26 AM by blm
Clinton publicly supported Bush's decisions on terrorism and Iraq war strategies throughout 2001-2006.

Throughout Clinton's terms in office he protected Poppy Bush's secrecy and privilege.

Let me know when those facts change - then I'll get over it.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #53
56. How do you define
publicly supported Bush's policies? What was different between Bill Clinton's statements and Kerry's during this time? Bill Clinton has clearly said that the UN inspections should not have been ended and that Bush rushed us into a war and he would not have done it. I am so sick of lies from the left and the right. I've had it with this bullshit.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #56
58. But Clinton supported Bush's decision ANYWAY and said he did the right thing -
and you KNOW that was a big difference between Clinton and Kerry's position.

Who came away with the good headlines during Clinton's June 2004 book tour, Jim, Bush or Kerry?

And do you honestly believe Clinton didn't KNOW enough about Kerry's decades of work on terrorism and the tracking of terror networks to side with HIM as the better choice of a leader to take on that issue?
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #58
61. I disagree with your characterizations ...completely. n/t
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. Who got the good headlines in June 2004 from Bill's book tour, Jim?
.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #64
66. I guess from your perspective
Bill should have wrote a book about Kerry?

You really need to think about holding Kerry responsible for his own future.

The party didn't want Clinton's help in the years post Presidency. You can choose to deny it, but there is plenty of clues to support that view.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. Baloney - Terry McAuliffe was head of the party from 2001-2005. Bill put him there.
Every spokesperson on TV for the party was schooled in defending Clinton and didn't know SHIT about any other Democrat or their record.

And when BILL was an unknown in 1992, Kerry came out and supported him forcefully defending him from the draft dodger attacks throughout that campaign.

How did Bill reciprocate and use his experience and high vale image? Ignoring Kerry's work on terrorism and supporting Bush publicly on the two biggest issues of the election - terrorism and Iraq war.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. seek help. n/t
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. Read National Security Archives.
The only help I will keep seeking is for this government to respect its citizens by telling us the truth about what it has done in our names.

YOU believe in excusing closed government that protects the secrecy and privilege of the powerful. Maybe a close read of the National Security Archives will help you get over that need to excuse closed government.
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #70
79. LOL I'm loving this.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
3. Feigned Outrage, yeah, by Clinton
God what a pandering bastard. Where the hell was he when Kerry and Cleland were under attack? Nowhere. This is just Hillary sucking up to the left, in typical Clinton triangulation fashion. Right when he knows she'll be crucified over her Iran vote.
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rzemanfl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Wasn't he recovering from open heart surgery? n/t
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Not during his June 2004 book tour or Cleland's 2002 campaign.
But Bill was siding so much with Bush on his policies, every time he got in front of a mic Bush ended up with great headlines the next day.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Yup... but now it's an issue worth talking about.
Funny how that works.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. He'll be yelling 'stolen election' before you know it n/t
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. And how did Hillary react when Kerry was being attacked for the lame Bush joke last fall?
She condemned Kerry. That's what she did. The Clintons are shameless power seekers--and to what end?
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. You mean when Hillary joined McCain and Bush's lie against Kerry?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg


And managed to find cameras to do it?
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
20. You got that right
Where was Bill prior to the Censure vote against MoveOn.org?
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
24. Reminds me of the feigned cold outrage...
...Bill phoneyed up in the "I did not have sex with THAT woman" episode.

He was pretty believable then too.
Excellent actor.
His wife too.
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
5. What is AC 380? n/t
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ElizabethDC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. It should be "AC 360" - Anderson Cooper's show. n/t
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
47. Close enough for govt. work! :)
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MissWaverly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
9. My God, welcome back Bill
we missed you for the last 6 years.
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Good one, MissWaverly!
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MissWaverly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #14
41. we needed him to stand up after Katrina
we needed him to stand up against the war, hark, I hear the call of the primaries in the distance.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. We needed him to use his 2004 book tour appearances to bolster the less known nominee,
Edited on Wed Sep-26-07 08:52 PM by blm
and instead, it was Bush who got the good headlines from Clinton's appearances. Clinton supported Bush on his terrorism and Iraq war decisions and bragged that he sticks up for Bush against the left.

That's typical of how much Bill Clinton sticks up for any other Democrat.
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MissWaverly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. remember that when Sen. Clinton runs
how loyal were they to us when we could have used their help these last 6 years, now Sen. Clinton is voting for the
the Kyl-Lieberman piece of dirty work to pump up the volume for a war with Iran.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. Hey - did you know Hillary has been leading the opposition to Bush for the last 6yrs.
According to her, the Clintons haven't stopped fighting the RW since 1992.

I'd like one interviewer to ask her to prove what opposition she's led in the senate.
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MissWaverly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #45
88. I heard that her influence is major reason = no anti-war
they can say anything, show me the results of fighting the rw, The Patriot Act, The Iraq War, renditions, Katrina, the list
is endless
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Maq Donating Member (481 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Hillbillie welcome back PIC
Edited on Wed Sep-26-07 05:32 PM by Maq

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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Hillbillie
Is that like cracker, peckerwood, or redneck?
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Maq Donating Member (481 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. delete for repost
Edited on Wed Sep-26-07 05:43 PM by Maq
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. You Do Know That Cracker And Redneck Are Racially Loaded Pejoratives
Edited on Wed Sep-26-07 05:53 PM by DemocratSinceBirth
And aren't much different than the N -Word

Cracker", sometimes "white cracker", is a usually pejorative term for a white person, mainly used in the Southern United States


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_cracker


redneck

Mildly offensive term for a lower class white person from the southeastern states of the USA. Derives from someone who spent a lot of time on manual labour outside and so received a "red neck" from the sun

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=redneck
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MadAnne Donating Member (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
39. Red neck War of 1921
The miners wore red bandannas to identify themselves.

http://www.rootsweb.com/~wvcoal/red.html

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Maq Donating Member (481 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Hillary and Bill christian pix
Edited on Wed Sep-26-07 05:47 PM by Maq
I have a mental definition of a redneck and cracker but "peckerwood" escapes me. Enlighten me please.


See the Bible in Bills' hand.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. See 17,
Edited on Wed Sep-26-07 05:52 PM by DemocratSinceBirth
I see this going to be a long evening.



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Maq Donating Member (481 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. I deleted #17. Wrong pix
quicker to repost with new data.

It is only 18:56 hours here.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. I Meant 19- Got Me
Hillbilly is an often pejorative term referring to people who dwell in remote, rural, mountainous areas. Usage of the term "hillbilly" generally differs from other terms referring to rural people in the United States in that it can be used for mountain dwelling people anywhere but is generally not used to refer to rural people in non-mountainous areas. While terms like redneck and cracker often connote rejection of, or resistance to, assimilation into the dominant culture, theoretically hillbillies are merely isolated from the dominant culture. Because of its strongly stereotypical connotations, the term is frequently considered derogatory depending on the context in which it is used or the attitude of the user.

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FloridaJudy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. Here in Florida
"Cracker" is frequently a term of pride, indicating descent from the first white/Anglo settlers. "Have you lived here long?" will occasionally be answered with "Oh, yes. I was born here. We're an old Cracker family".

Elsewhere in the South, I believe it's an insult. And it's probably best not to use it here unless the person proclaims it.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Depends Who Said It And And The Tone In Which It Is Said
And, yes, I grew up in rural Florida...
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provis99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. ""Peckerwood" is a poor white Mississippian
In Alabama they call them "Clayeaters" because they used to supplement their corn-based diet by eating clay (I'm not kidding).

By the way, Bill Clinton has referred to himself in the past as a "redneck". Funny thing to say for a man who likes to think of himself as the first Black President. I guess his opinion just changes for whatever audience he happens to be whoring himself out to.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #26
44. ....
"By the way, Bill Clinton has referred to himself in the past as a "redneck".

I remember when he referred to himself as a redneck. I was shocked.

"Funny thing to say for a man who likes to think of himself as the first Black President."

You're wrong. Big Dawg never referred to himself as the first black president. A well known african american writer did (whose name escapes me).
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. Bill had more to do with Bush2 being in office, WHY BLAME GOD?
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. Has any sitting president started
an investigation of a previous president? I can't think of any. All presidents want to start fresh, pushing their own platform through congress, not backtracking through the wreckage of an former one. Where do you think this kind of investigation would have led even if he'd been wise enough to follow through on it?
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Except - he was HANDED the BCCI report in the transition -
Edited on Wed Sep-26-07 06:43 PM by blm
Just read the 20 questions left unanswered, and it is apparent that had they been a priority for ANY administration, a 9-11 event would never have happened, and NO BUSH would ever be even allowed near the White House.

The access to documents previously stonewalled would have been a big help.




Matters For Further Investigation

There have been a number of matters which the Subcommittee has received some information on, but has not been able to investigate adequately, due such factors as lack of resources, lack of time, documents being withheld by foreign governments, and limited evidentiary sources or witnesses. Some of the main areas which deserve further investigation include:


1. The extent of BCCI's involvement in Pakistan's nuclear program. As set forth in the chapter on BCCI in foreign countries, there is good reason to conclude that BCCI did finance Pakistan's nuclear program through the BCCI Foundation in Pakistan, as well as through BCCI-Canada in the Parvez case. However, details on BCCI's involvement remain unavailable. Further investigation is needed to understand the extent to which BCCI and Pakistan were able to evade U.S. and international nuclear non-proliferation regimes to acquire nuclear technologies.


2. BCCI's manipulation of commodities and securities markets in Europe and Canada. The Subcommittee has received information that remains not fully substantiated that BCCI defrauded investors, as well as some major U.S. and European financial firms, through manipulating commodities and securities markets, especially in Canada, the Netherlands, and Luxembourg. This alleged fraud requires further investigation in those countries.


3. BCCI's activities in India, including its relationship with the business empire of the Hinduja family. The Subcommittee has not had access to BCCI records regarding India. The substantial lending by BCCI to the Indian industrialist family, the Hindujas, reported in press accounts, deserves further scrutiny, as do the press reports concerning alleged kick-backs and bribes to Indian officials.


4. BCCI's relationships with convicted Iraqi arms dealer Sarkis Soghanalian, Syrian drug trafficker, terrorist, and arms trafficker Monzer Al-Kassar, and other major arms dealers. Sarkenalian was a principal seller of arms to Iraq. Monzer Al-Kassar has been implicated in terrorist bombings in connection with terrorist organizations such as the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. Other arms dealers, including some who provided machine guns and trained Medellin cartel death squads, also used BCCI. Tracing their assets through the bank would likely lead to important information concerning international terrorist and arms trafficker networks.


5. The use of BCCI by central figures in arms sales to Iran during the 1980's. The late Cyrus Hashemi, a key figure in allegations concerning an alleged deal involving the return of U.S. hostages from Iran in 1980, banked at BCCI London. His records have been withheld from disclosure to the Subcommittee by a British judge. Their release might aid in reaching judgments concerning Hashemi's activities in 1980, with the CIA under President Carter and allegedly with William Casey.


6. BCCI's activities with the Central Bank of Syria and with the Foreign Trade Mission of the Soviet Union in London. BCCI was used by both the Syrian and Soviet governments in the period in which each was involved in supporting activities hostile to the United States. Obtaining the records of those financial transactions would be critical to understanding what the Soviet Union under Brezhnev, Chernenko, and Andropov was doing in the West; and might document the nature and extent of Syria's support for international terrorism.


7. BCCI's involvement with foreign intelligence agencies. A British source has told the Bank of England and British investigators that BCCI was used by numerous foreign intelligence agencies in the United Kingdom. The British intelligence service, the MI-5, has sealed documents from BCCI's records in the UK which could shed light on this allegation.


8. The financial dealings of BCCI directors with Charles Keating and several Keating affiliates and front-companies, including the possibility that BCCI related entities may have laundered funds for Keating to move them outside the United States. The Subcommittee found numerous connections among Keating and BCCI-related persons and entities, such as BCCI director Alfred Hartman; CenTrust chief David Paul and CenTrust itself; Capcom front-man Lawrence Romrell; BCCI shipping affiliate, the Gokal group and the Gokal family; and possibly Ghaith Pharaon. The ties between BCCI and Keating's financial empire require further investigation.


9. BCCI's financing of commodities and other business dealings of international criminal financier Marc Rich. Marc Rich remains the most important figure in the international commodities markets, and remains a fugitive from the United States following his indictment on securities fraud. BCCI lending to Rich in the 1980's amounted to tens of millions of dollars. Moreover, Rich's commodities firms were used by BCCI in connection with BCCI's involving in U.S. guarantee programs through the Department of Agriculture. The nature and extent of Rich's relationship with BCCI requires further investigation.


10. The nature, extent and meaning of the ownership of shares of other U.S. financial institutions by Middle Eastern political figures. Political figures and members of the ruling family of various Middle Eastern countries have very substantial investments in the United States, in some cases, owning substantial shares of major U.S. banks. Given BCCI's routine use of nominees from the Middle East, and the pervasive practice of using nominees within the Middle East, further investigation may be warranted of Middle Eastern ownership of domestic U.S. financial institutions.


11. The nature, extent, and meaning of real estate and financial investments in the United States by major shareholders of BCCI. BCCI's shareholders and front-men have made substantial investments in real estate throughout the United States, owning major office buildings in such key cities as New York and Washington, D.C. Given BCCI's pervasiveness criminality, and the role of these shareholders and front-men in the BCCI affair, a complete review of their holdings in the United States is warranted.


12. BCCI's collusion in Savings & Loan fraud in the U.S. The Subcommittee found ties between BCCI and two failed Savings and Loan institutions, CenTrust, which BCCI came to have a controlling interest in, and Caprock Savings and Loan in Texas, and as noted above, the involvement of BCCI figures with Charles Keating and his business empire. In each case, BCCI's involvement cost the U. S. taxpayers money. A comprehensive review of BCCI's account holders in the U.S. and globally might well reveal additional such cases. In addition, the issue of whether David Paul and CenTrust's political relationships were used by Paul on behalf of BCCI merits further investigation.


13. The sale of BCCI affiliate Banque de Commerce et de Placements (BCP) in Geneva, to the Cukorova Group of Turkey, which owned an entity involved in the BNL Iraqi arms sales, among others. Given BNL's links to BCCI, and Cukorova Groups' involvement through its subsidiary, Entrade, with BNL in the sales to Iraq, the swift sale of BCP to Cukorova just weeks after BCCI's closure -- prior to due diligence being conducted -- raises questions as to whether a prior relationship existed between BCCI and Cukorova, and Cukorova's intentions in making the purchase. Within the past year, Cukorova also applied to purchase a New York bank. Cukorova's actions pertaining to BCP require further investigation in Switzerland by Swiss authorities, and by the Federal Reserve New York.


14. BCCI's role in China. As noted in the chapter on BCCI's activities in foreign countries, BCCI had extensive activity in China, and the Chinese government allegedly lost $500 million when BCCI closed, mostly from government accounts. While there have been allegations that bribes and pay-offs were involved, these allegations require further investigation and detail to determine what actually happened, and who was involved.


15. The relationship between Capcom and BCCI, between Capcom and the intelligence community, and between Capcom's shareholders and U.S. telecommunications industry figures. The Subcommittee was able to interview people and review documents concerning Capcom that no other investigators had to date interviewed or reviewed. Much more needs to be done to understand what Capcom was doing in the United States, the United Kingdom, Egypt, Oman, and the Middle East, including whether the firm was, as has been alleged but not proven, used by the intelligence community to move funds for intelligence operations; and whether any person involved with Capcom was seeking secretly to acquire interests in the U.S. telecommunications industry.


16. The relationship of important BCCI figures and important intelligence figures to the collapse of the Hong Kong Deposit and Guaranty Bank and Tetra Finance (HK) in 1983. The circumstances surrounding the collpase of these two Hong Kong banks; the Hong Kong banks' practices of using nominees, front-companies, and back-to-back financial transactions; the Hong Banks' directors having included several important BCCI figures, including Ghanim Al Mazrui, and a close associate of then CIA director William Casey; all raise the question of whether there was a relationship between these two institutions and BCCI-Hong Kong, and whether the two Hong Kong institutions were used for domestic or foreign intelligence operations.


17. BCCI's activities in Atlanta and its acquisition of the National Bank of Georgia through First American. Although the Justice Department indictments of Clark Clifford and Robert Altman cover portions of how BCCI acquired National Bank of Georgia, other important allegations regarding the possible involvement of political figures in Georgia in BCCI's activities there remain outside the indictment. These allegations, as well as the underlying facts regarding BCCI's activities in Georgia, require further investigation.


18. The relationship between BCCI and the Banca Nazionale del Lavoro. BCCI and the Atlanta Branch of BNL had an extensive relationship in the United States, with the Atlanta Branch of BNL having a substantial number of accounts in BCCI's Miami offices. BNL was, according to federal indictments, a significant financial conduit for weapons to Iraq. BCCI also made loans to Iraq, although of a substantially smaller nature. Given the criminality of both institutions, and their interlocking activities, further investigation of the relationship could produce further understanding of Saddam Hussein's international network for acquiring weapons, and how Iraq evaded governmental restrictions on such weapons acquisitions.


19. The alleged relationship between the late CIA director William Casey and BCCI. As set forth in the chapter on intelligence, numerous trails lead from BCCI to Casey, and from Casey to BCCI, and the investigation has been unable to follow any of them to the end to determine whether there was indeed a relationship, and if there was, its nature and extent. If any such relationship existed, it could have a significant impact on the findings and conclusions concerning the CIA and BCCI's role in U.S. foreign policy and intelligence operations during the Casey era. The investigation's work detailing the ties of BCCI to the intelligence community generally also remains far from complete, and much about these ties remains obscure and in need of further investigation.


20. Money laundering by other major international banks. Numerous BCCI officials told the Subcommittee that BCCI's money laundering was no different from activities they observed at other international banks, and provided the names of a number of prominent U.S. and European banks which they alleged engaged in money laundering. There is no question that BCCI's laundering of drug money, while pervading the institution, constituted a small component of the total money laundering taking place in international banking. Further investigation to determine which international banks are soliciting and handling drug money should be undertaken.



ALSO IMPORTANT TO NOTE that Bill Clinton never even mentions BCCI in his entire book. After reading these 20 outstanding matters - how could that possibly be that he didn't think they were of any consequence? His book was written after 9-11, wasn't it?
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. That's hindsight,
Edited on Wed Sep-26-07 06:49 PM by seasonedblue
and maybe it would have had the effect you think it would. Chances are it would have gone nowhere. At the time, what was important for Clinton as it was for every single president before him, was getting his own programs passed by the Congress.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. BushInc was at its weakest at that point. And you can't explain away why BCCI
was never worth mentioning in Bill's book. Are you presuming he had no responsibility for the OUTSTANDING MATTERS that were left on BCCI?

AQ Khan and Marc Rich found their way back into play, didn't they?
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #35
46. It's not hindsight
This was a list put together indicating issues that were of concern to Senator Kerry. A president has to deal with many things simultaneously. He has a cabinet and many departments. Look at the first one. Pakistan had just tested a nucleur bomb in spite of the non-proliferation treaty - even if he thought the others weren't of concern, that one should have stood out - which is likely why Kerry made it number 1.

Kerry was prescient, but Clinton at the advantage of Kerry's identifying the issues.
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. I understand that,
and might be giving Clinton too much of an easy out, but I do remember this emphasis during his term:

"Clinton “didn’t feel that it was a good idea to pursue these investigations because he was going to have to work with these people,” Sender told me in an interview. “He was going to try to work with these guys, compromise, build working relationships."

Obviously Kerry had it right, and we may have escaped all the tragic events that followed if Clinton had followed his lead. I'll have to give this more thought ... I don't want unfairly condemn him, but I also don't want to be an apologist for any of his negligence either.

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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #48
52. These issues were not
investigaying Bush or any Bush official. The first point and most of the others dealt with getting rid of the international snake's nest that had through many administrations been swept uder the rug, either because the CIA found it useful or they successfully co-opted high government officials.

A valid argument was that Clinton was not unique - Presidents from Carter onward all allowed this to happen. They also all bought into the idea of arming right wing thugs to fight the forces of communism. This is where Kerry was more law abiding, more moral or more prescient than every President in the last half century. Whether the President was Republican or Democrat, Kerry fought this practice. What Clinton had that those before him didn't was a report spelling out the interconnections of global crime, non-state terrorism and these creepy banks. When Kerry was ignored, he wrote a book that spelled out the danger in globalized crime and how it was different than what he faced as a prosecutor in Middlesex County. Even now. the warnings in that book and the descriptions of how just like there is a global economy, there is global crime.

This could have been dealt with in a proactive way. Also, a less egobound person than Clinton would have in 2004 spoken of how Kerry was ahead of the people in his administration - other than maybe Lake and Richard Clarke. (Like Biden did at a SFRC where generals spoke of the nationsl security problems that were likely due to global warming - he said to Kerry, You have been speaking about this for 20 years and we should have listened. (Kerry, Wirth and Heinz were Gore's allies on this.) )Clinton's comments that Kerry was too weak on national security, put Hillary's needs over that of the party. Hillary had (and has) the support of the media and the party - there was no need to weaken one of the Democrats who very likely will be an important surrogate on this.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #52
54. Instead, we got Clinton SUPPORTING BUSH publicly on his terrorism strategy and
not saying one word about Kerry's decades of efforts in tracking terror networks.

Why?

And now we have Clinton saying Hillary is the most qualified and prepared candidate who has ever been in the race?

Oh yeah - I noticed all the heavy lifting she did for years on the terror issue.

What a pack of liars.
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #52
60. Nevermind,
Edited on Thu Sep-27-07 11:27 AM by seasonedblue
it was a stupid question. Sorry
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
30. Bill talks out of both sides of his mouth. I don't trust him as far as I can throw him.
He's not called Slick Willie for nothin'.
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Peregrine Took Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. Me neither - please don't get suckered in by him. Today he'll say something
you love to hear and in a matter of days he'll completely go against it and go fishing with old man Bush.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
32. Bill Clinton is triangulating the progressives. Damn him!
:spray:
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-26-07 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
40. He always was a good actor. nt
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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
49. You got THAT right! Where the h__ll are all the Democrats with cajones?
Is Bill Clinton the ONLY Democrat with the cajones to go public with outrage and anger at the hypocrisy of the GOP?

Those Dems should be all over the media like ticks on a dog about all these hypocrital stances the Repubs take! Weak little so-and-so's is what most of 'em are, apparently.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
51. The hypocrisy around here is enough to choke on
You all wait for a mention of Bill, don't matter what the issue is, for it, against it, defend a Dem, question a Dem. Just attack him.

And to those who blame him for Kerry losing, please take a pill or something.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #51
55. If we take a pill will that change the FACTS about his public support for Bush
Edited on Thu Sep-27-07 08:34 AM by blm
and his years of protecting Poppy Bush's secrecy and privilege?

Will a chapter pop up in Bill's book about how he handled all the outstanding matters in BCCI?

If we go to war with Iran, will THAT be enough for you to realize that maybe covering up the outstanding matters in BCCI may have not been a good idea, since 9-11 wasn't tragic enough to do the trick?
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #55
57. Stop blaming every fucking thing on one man, get it?
Edited on Thu Sep-27-07 08:57 AM by Jim4Wes
Who wasn't even in public office I might add.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #57
59. When? When he was handed the Dec 1992 report during the TRANSITION PERIOD?
BOTH administrations received that report, and saying Bill didn't have to deal with the matters in that report is no different than saying Bush didn't have to concern himself with the Hart Rudman Report on Global Terror that was handed to him in Jan 2001.

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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #59
62. I don't even care to discuss your obsession with Clinton other
than to say as I have have above.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. Hardly an obsession with Clinton - it's acknowledgement of the HISTORIC TRUTH
Edited on Thu Sep-27-07 12:39 PM by blm
and your penchant for excusing both Bill Clinton and Poppy Bush's roles.

That just doesn't seem to matter to the apologists - making excuses for Bill means YOU don't believe Poppy Bush's operations NEEDED any more scrutiny.

And that's the bottom line when it comes right down to it.

Excuse Bill's role and you excuse Poppy Bush, too.

I stopped making excuses for Bill because he didn't earn one scrap of loyalty from the anti-corruption, open government wing of the Democratic party.

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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. bla bla bla
I would love it Kerry had all the years Clinton did in an executive branch position, makes for great fodder for folks that use your tactics.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. Big difference - Kerry isn't a Jackson Stephens boy and is a champion for open
government.

You think Kerry in WH on Jan 1993 would have denied access to the documents that HE tried to obtain for 5 years FOR the public?

Kerry took Poppy Bush to court to get those documents revealed publicly - he won some and lost some. He WANTED those documents revealed, though. And THEREIN is the big difference between the two Democrats.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. Good grief
Clinton did plenty for open Government policy, his government administration. Stop blaming him for shit that was investigated before and during his watch and the results didn't meet with you pre-conceived wishes.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. Yeah - AQ Khan and Mark Rich didn't meet any threshold for investigation and
why AQ Khan is now being named by those who want war with Iran and Syria?

Yep - nothing to see there. Jim sez so.

Just read the 20 questions left unanswered, and it is apparent that had they been a priority for ANY administration, a 9-11 event would never have happened, and NO BUSH would ever be even allowed near the White House.


Matters For Further Investigation

There have been a number of matters which the Subcommittee has received some information on, but has not been able to investigate adequately, due such factors as lack of resources, lack of time, documents being withheld by foreign governments, and limited evidentiary sources or witnesses. Some of the main areas which deserve further investigation include:


1. The extent of BCCI's involvement in Pakistan's nuclear program. As set forth in the chapter on BCCI in foreign countries, there is good reason to conclude that BCCI did finance Pakistan's nuclear program through the BCCI Foundation in Pakistan, as well as through BCCI-Canada in the Parvez case. However, details on BCCI's involvement remain unavailable. Further investigation is needed to understand the extent to which BCCI and Pakistan were able to evade U.S. and international nuclear non-proliferation regimes to acquire nuclear technologies.


2. BCCI's manipulation of commodities and securities markets in Europe and Canada. The Subcommittee has received information that remains not fully substantiated that BCCI defrauded investors, as well as some major U.S. and European financial firms, through manipulating commodities and securities markets, especially in Canada, the Netherlands, and Luxembourg. This alleged fraud requires further investigation in those countries.


3. BCCI's activities in India, including its relationship with the business empire of the Hinduja family. The Subcommittee has not had access to BCCI records regarding India. The substantial lending by BCCI to the Indian industrialist family, the Hindujas, reported in press accounts, deserves further scrutiny, as do the press reports concerning alleged kick-backs and bribes to Indian officials.


4. BCCI's relationships with convicted Iraqi arms dealer Sarkis Soghanalian, Syrian drug trafficker, terrorist, and arms trafficker Monzer Al-Kassar, and other major arms dealers. Sarkenalian was a principal seller of arms to Iraq. Monzer Al-Kassar has been implicated in terrorist bombings in connection with terrorist organizations such as the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. Other arms dealers, including some who provided machine guns and trained Medellin cartel death squads, also used BCCI. Tracing their assets through the bank would likely lead to important information concerning international terrorist and arms trafficker networks.


5. The use of BCCI by central figures in arms sales to Iran during the 1980's. The late Cyrus Hashemi, a key figure in allegations concerning an alleged deal involving the return of U.S. hostages from Iran in 1980, banked at BCCI London. His records have been withheld from disclosure to the Subcommittee by a British judge. Their release might aid in reaching judgments concerning Hashemi's activities in 1980, with the CIA under President Carter and allegedly with William Casey.


6. BCCI's activities with the Central Bank of Syria and with the Foreign Trade Mission of the Soviet Union in London. BCCI was used by both the Syrian and Soviet governments in the period in which each was involved in supporting activities hostile to the United States. Obtaining the records of those financial transactions would be critical to understanding what the Soviet Union under Brezhnev, Chernenko, and Andropov was doing in the West; and might document the nature and extent of Syria's support for international terrorism.


7. BCCI's involvement with foreign intelligence agencies. A British source has told the Bank of England and British investigators that BCCI was used by numerous foreign intelligence agencies in the United Kingdom. The British intelligence service, the MI-5, has sealed documents from BCCI's records in the UK which could shed light on this allegation.


8. The financial dealings of BCCI directors with Charles Keating and several Keating affiliates and front-companies, including the possibility that BCCI related entities may have laundered funds for Keating to move them outside the United States. The Subcommittee found numerous connections among Keating and BCCI-related persons and entities, such as BCCI director Alfred Hartman; CenTrust chief David Paul and CenTrust itself; Capcom front-man Lawrence Romrell; BCCI shipping affiliate, the Gokal group and the Gokal family; and possibly Ghaith Pharaon. The ties between BCCI and Keating's financial empire require further investigation.


9. BCCI's financing of commodities and other business dealings of international criminal financier Marc Rich. Marc Rich remains the most important figure in the international commodities markets, and remains a fugitive from the United States following his indictment on securities fraud. BCCI lending to Rich in the 1980's amounted to tens of millions of dollars. Moreover, Rich's commodities firms were used by BCCI in connection with BCCI's involving in U.S. guarantee programs through the Department of Agriculture. The nature and extent of Rich's relationship with BCCI requires further investigation.


10. The nature, extent and meaning of the ownership of shares of other U.S. financial institutions by Middle Eastern political figures. Political figures and members of the ruling family of various Middle Eastern countries have very substantial investments in the United States, in some cases, owning substantial shares of major U.S. banks. Given BCCI's routine use of nominees from the Middle East, and the pervasive practice of using nominees within the Middle East, further investigation may be warranted of Middle Eastern ownership of domestic U.S. financial institutions.


11. The nature, extent, and meaning of real estate and financial investments in the United States by major shareholders of BCCI. BCCI's shareholders and front-men have made substantial investments in real estate throughout the United States, owning major office buildings in such key cities as New York and Washington, D.C. Given BCCI's pervasiveness criminality, and the role of these shareholders and front-men in the BCCI affair, a complete review of their holdings in the United States is warranted.


12. BCCI's collusion in Savings & Loan fraud in the U.S. The Subcommittee found ties between BCCI and two failed Savings and Loan institutions, CenTrust, which BCCI came to have a controlling interest in, and Caprock Savings and Loan in Texas, and as noted above, the involvement of BCCI figures with Charles Keating and his business empire. In each case, BCCI's involvement cost the U. S. taxpayers money. A comprehensive review of BCCI's account holders in the U.S. and globally might well reveal additional such cases. In addition, the issue of whether David Paul and CenTrust's political relationships were used by Paul on behalf of BCCI merits further investigation.


13. The sale of BCCI affiliate Banque de Commerce et de Placements (BCP) in Geneva, to the Cukorova Group of Turkey, which owned an entity involved in the BNL Iraqi arms sales, among others. Given BNL's links to BCCI, and Cukorova Groups' involvement through its subsidiary, Entrade, with BNL in the sales to Iraq, the swift sale of BCP to Cukorova just weeks after BCCI's closure -- prior to due diligence being conducted -- raises questions as to whether a prior relationship existed between BCCI and Cukorova, and Cukorova's intentions in making the purchase. Within the past year, Cukorova also applied to purchase a New York bank. Cukorova's actions pertaining to BCP require further investigation in Switzerland by Swiss authorities, and by the Federal Reserve New York.


14. BCCI's role in China. As noted in the chapter on BCCI's activities in foreign countries, BCCI had extensive activity in China, and the Chinese government allegedly lost $500 million when BCCI closed, mostly from government accounts. While there have been allegations that bribes and pay-offs were involved, these allegations require further investigation and detail to determine what actually happened, and who was involved.


15. The relationship between Capcom and BCCI, between Capcom and the intelligence community, and between Capcom's shareholders and U.S. telecommunications industry figures. The Subcommittee was able to interview people and review documents concerning Capcom that no other investigators had to date interviewed or reviewed. Much more needs to be done to understand what Capcom was doing in the United States, the United Kingdom, Egypt, Oman, and the Middle East, including whether the firm was, as has been alleged but not proven, used by the intelligence community to move funds for intelligence operations; and whether any person involved with Capcom was seeking secretly to acquire interests in the U.S. telecommunications industry.


16. The relationship of important BCCI figures and important intelligence figures to the collapse of the Hong Kong Deposit and Guaranty Bank and Tetra Finance (HK) in 1983. The circumstances surrounding the collpase of these two Hong Kong banks; the Hong Kong banks' practices of using nominees, front-companies, and back-to-back financial transactions; the Hong Banks' directors having included several important BCCI figures, including Ghanim Al Mazrui, and a close associate of then CIA director William Casey; all raise the question of whether there was a relationship between these two institutions and BCCI-Hong Kong, and whether the two Hong Kong institutions were used for domestic or foreign intelligence operations.


17. BCCI's activities in Atlanta and its acquisition of the National Bank of Georgia through First American. Although the Justice Department indictments of Clark Clifford and Robert Altman cover portions of how BCCI acquired National Bank of Georgia, other important allegations regarding the possible involvement of political figures in Georgia in BCCI's activities there remain outside the indictment. These allegations, as well as the underlying facts regarding BCCI's activities in Georgia, require further investigation.


18. The relationship between BCCI and the Banca Nazionale del Lavoro. BCCI and the Atlanta Branch of BNL had an extensive relationship in the United States, with the Atlanta Branch of BNL having a substantial number of accounts in BCCI's Miami offices. BNL was, according to federal indictments, a significant financial conduit for weapons to Iraq. BCCI also made loans to Iraq, although of a substantially smaller nature. Given the criminality of both institutions, and their interlocking activities, further investigation of the relationship could produce further understanding of Saddam Hussein's international network for acquiring weapons, and how Iraq evaded governmental restrictions on such weapons acquisitions.


19. The alleged relationship between the late CIA director William Casey and BCCI. As set forth in the chapter on intelligence, numerous trails lead from BCCI to Casey, and from Casey to BCCI, and the investigation has been unable to follow any of them to the end to determine whether there was indeed a relationship, and if there was, its nature and extent. If any such relationship existed, it could have a significant impact on the findings and conclusions concerning the CIA and BCCI's role in U.S. foreign policy and intelligence operations during the Casey era. The investigation's work detailing the ties of BCCI to the intelligence community generally also remains far from complete, and much about these ties remains obscure and in need of further investigation.


20. Money laundering by other major international banks. Numerous BCCI officials told the Subcommittee that BCCI's money laundering was no different from activities they observed at other international banks, and provided the names of a number of prominent U.S. and European banks which they alleged engaged in money laundering. There is no question that BCCI's laundering of drug money, while pervading the institution, constituted a small component of the total money laundering taking place in international banking. Further investigation to determine which international banks are soliciting and handling drug money should be undertaken.



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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #72
86. Are you AKA Ken Star or Ralph Nader?
Who the hell are you anyway? Have you nothing to do all day except bash Democrats? Are you a paid operative of some kind? You sound like a professional basher...not just an ordinary citizen.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #86
90. Since when is wanting the books open on BushInc akin to Democrat bashing?
The Democrats who protect the Bushes are the ones you should be attacking, not someone who wants the Bushes and all who protected them to be held accountable.

I am someone who was vey bothered that some Democrats undermine the HONEST Democrats who seek to expose government corruption and who respect the citizenry enough to side with their right to know - it's called open government. Some of us would like to see it happen.


Not an operative at all. I am someone who has paid attention to government corruption issues and terrorism since the 80s. Many of us who did pay attention then, knew instantly on 9-11 that it was rooted in BCCI.

I am sorry that bothers you so much. Maybe if you knew more about the details, it wouldn't anger you to see people talk about it openly here.
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #90
91. I wasn't angry.
I just thought you were so knowledgeable that you must be some sort of operative...not your everyday citizen.

So actually it was a complement...though you'd never know it.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
73. Gawd, will The Clintons and The Bushes JUST GO AWAY ALREADY!?!
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. Not till the Fascist Agenda is set in stone and their faithful followers are
Edited on Thu Sep-27-07 02:59 PM by blm
fully accustomed to the new reality.
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SaveOurDemocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. I thought it was RePukes who blamed Clinton for everything?
Maybe you got lost?

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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. I don't blame Clintons for everything but I'm burned out - notice how the dust has settled before
he "jumps in" with all his phony indignation?

I did NOT ever like Bill Clinton but I voted twice for him because he was the lesser of two evils.

However, the way the DLC is run ... with it's values is JUST LIKE we know moderate republicans - I don't vote for DLCers = moderate republican - corporations rulers. :thumbsdown:

Go away Clintons and Bushes. We're sick of BOTH families.

BTW I'm far from alone - with regard to LIBERALS: No political royalty for MY beloved Country. :thumbsdown:
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #76
82. Let's see what historian Douglas Brinkley observed about Clintons during 2003-4.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #75
80. I don't. I blame him for protecting Poppy Bush's secrecy and privilege and THAT is
Edited on Thu Sep-27-07 03:31 PM by blm
something you will never hear from any Republican.


http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #80
87. self-delete
Edited on Thu Sep-27-07 04:37 PM by seasonedblue
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #74
77. That doesn't belong here blm,
no matter how much you despise Clinton to smear him with a "fascist agenda" is way over the top.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. What do YOU call the BCCI scandal and PNAC? I call it the Fascist Agenda.
Edited on Thu Sep-27-07 03:29 PM by blm
I can recognize the aggressive faces of fascism and the smiling faces of fascism. But, in the end, what are the citizens getting? Fascism.

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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #78
81. Keep saying that our last Democratic president
had a fascist agenda and see how far you get. I've had enough of your vitriol for today, argue with someone else.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #81
83. You can deny that he looked the other way which was very helpful to the fascists.
But would that denial be true?
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #83
84. At least he didn't court that fascist puke McCain to be his VP like Kerry did
Most embarrassing moment EVER in the history of the Democratic Party. yeah
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #84
85. Yeah - closing the books on Poppy Bush's crimes of office was a highpoint for you.
Hey - protecting secrecy and privilege of the powerful elite is YOUR idea of good government - not mine.

Funny how a meaningless Repub like McCain irritates you while you have no problem at all with the BFEE and those Dems supportive of their secrecy.

Proportion is not your strong suit.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-27-07 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
89. Too bad Bill can't run again
he'd get a landslide AnD sweep Dems into Congress.
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