Was I watching a different debate than MSNBC people were watching?

[MadBadger]

Hillary wins, Obama loses big time. WTF?

[mantis]

1. hillary

always wins...even when she doesn't lose...whatever the hell that means.

[rurallib]

13. "Da fix is in. Pat B. says Hillary wins and everyone agree"

I'd say the Repubs made some inroads with one of their own as the moderator.

[Colobo]

2. Hillary can say anything on stage and the press will give her a pass.

[jenmito]

3. I stated before the debate started that they'd say Hillary won by not losing.

I was right.

[wyldwolf]

4. Obama did nothing to separate himself from Clinton. Edwards did

Clinton, by not losing, wins.
Edwards was aggressive and defined himself.
Obama - it's now third down and 10.

[MadBadger]

10. Or Obama gives good answers, and lets everyone else attack her

So he stays above the fray and still sounds presidential.

[Colobo]

17. It doesn't matter what he does, Hillarites will trash Obama.

[jenmito]

14. Yes he did.

He said he had the judgement to be against the war unlike Hillary and he also said he spoke out about the Jena 6 before anyone else.

[Dawgs]

15. Kind of. Hillary was not great, Edwards was good, Obama was not great.

But, saying Hillary won and Obama was terrible is just dumb. I'm not saying you said that; more the panelists after the debate.

[rndmprsn]

29. agreed...he emerged as the challenger, just by challenging her (no pun intended)

obama had a cold and def looked and sounded off his game, edwards might have slipped by him?

[Ethelk2044]

32. she did not do well tonight.

[jmp]

5. Does it even really matter anymore?

Buchanan's view is that since Hillary is the front runner, she wins every debate unless her opponents draw blood.

I don't agree, but again ... who cares what the talking heads say?

[PATRICK]

37. dupe post, sorry

[PATRICK]

38. Open duplicity

They KNOW how Hillary won her Senate elections against attack dogs. How unlikely that a decent dem will ever launch such an attack against her. They are using that to teflonize her by saying that she is unbeatable by either approach when she never had the competition she has faced on stage. Then the frame will change drastically when the GOP gets to pick the real battle. Right now, with things the way they are, the GOP and their media hounds seem to be controlling OUR primary process. That is all perception until the votes are cast.

Even some GOP sympathizer not reading from a planned script will naturally "boost" Hillary this way both for advantage and by judgment coming from their own warped perceptions about politics and public service. Either way, we don't want to be looking in their mirror when picking our candidate. This is not consensus or even submission and definitely not respect. it is the hidden smile of the GOP getting what they want in fixed, stationary terms.

And Buchanan who destroyed the Independence party while being a dupe for Bush II in 2000 always comes back to being the Nixon hack he started out as.

[Dawgs]

6. Agree, Obama didn't necessarily win, but they are acting like he was terrible.

And, what the fuck is Buchanan doing on this panel. He says the same thing after each debate, 'Hillary didn't lose so she won'.

[illinoisprogressive]

7. that is the storyline they set months ago before any debates ever took place

[illinoisprogressive]

9. obama was sick with a bad cold.

[emilyg]

39. You keep saying that. People work with colds. No big deal.

[hedda_foil]

24. And this is how they fake the voters into selecting the corporate choice.

Their interpretation is all that counts and all that most voters hear. Very few actually watch primary debates. They hear the pronouncements of the commentators and the few clips to prop up the commentators' remarks. We've even seen this work in the general election debates, where vast numbers of people actually do watch -- and the voice of the commentators winds up changing people's own perceptions. Case in point: the Gore-Bush debates that Gore won hands down and walking away. The spin was that Bush either tied or won those debates and people began to believe that he wasn't as dense as he looked to them.

[Connie_Corleone]

8. Obama was listless, boring, blah blah blah.

I thought Obama did very well tonight. I thought Hillary had her worse performance by refusing to answer certain questions directly.

Edwards did fine until the defensiveness about his wealth.

Biden did well tonight too.

[Cameron27]

16. That's the way I saw it too.

[Dawgs]

19. Agree, Obama wasn't great, but he certainly wasn't bad.

Edwards and Biden also did well.

[Ethelk2044]

11. MSM spin

[ChiciB1]

20. It's Was A Given... There's Money In Those Pockets!! n/t

[movonne]

12. Hillary the war president...

[Cameron27]

18. I'm watching Tweety tear into Clinton

where did anyone but Buchanan say she won?

[MadBadger]

22. Right here on MSNBC

[jenmito]

21. I think this was Hillary's worst debate...

she sounded Lieberman-like.

[MadBadger]

23. Here we Go, now they are ripping into her

[Cameron27]

27. Big time

[jillan]

25. C'mon Biden - Tweety is giving you a chance to get ahead - do it!

[DUyellow]

26. Hard core spin, it should be rated TV-MA

[IndianaJones]

28. the fix is in. waaa. nt.

[jenmito]

30. Fineman's changing his opinion about Hillary! Not so good afterall! n/t

[MadBadger]

31. I'm glad that bozo Buchannan is gone for now.

[jenmito]

33. So am I...

he never won, so I don't care what he thinks.

[Think82]

34. Matthews basically endorsed

Biden.

[jenmito]

35. Tweety's back to the "Hillary can win by not losing" thing...

by "keeping her arms up and blocking." She was NOT blocking all the hits tonight.

[Colobo]

36. Hillary was ducking...

[Honeycombe8]

40. I thought Obama did poorly (I'm an Obama fan). You didn't? n/t