The Dismantling Of Hillary Has Begun

[rsmith6621]

The Dismantling Of Hillary Has Begun.....and the first swipe of the wrecking ball has come from Edwards...

....Edwards was spot on tonight and came off as believable while Hillary stood to his left and looked fumed for being exposed for the phony she is. Hill is nothing but as a earlier post said....A PNACER. Hillary has no interest in ending the war and her health care plan seems to have come from a health care insurance lobbyist.

No matter how much Hill tries to make herself look genuine she looks most insincere.

[Mythsaje]

1. In all honesty

coming from someone who supports Edwards over Hillary, her insurance plan is fairly indistinquishable from his. I'd LIKE to see him moving in a different direction on that, but I really think he's got a better sense of where we need to go as a nation than she does.

[hedgehog]

3. I'd say the proof is in the details and how the program is put through.

I trust Edwards to fight and win, not just fight and fade away.

[Mythsaje]

6. There is that, isn't there?

[Donnachaidh]

11. Or *say* they are fighting, until they get the nomination

And then start talking about *bi-partisan committees* and other death knells to campaign promises.

[Mythsaje]

29. It's a serious concern...

I'm not sure there's ANY suck thing as "bipartisan" politics. It just might be an oxymoron.

[The Backlash Cometh]

38. We will remind Edwards what bi-partisan support did for Bill Clinton.

Edwards has one thing going for him. The Bush loyalists are not covert.

[eridani]

19. You are right

However, I think Edwards is someone more likely to be pushed in the direction of real universal health care.

[Mythsaje]

30. I think he really does support the idea...

But doesn't think it'll fly.

His position MIGHT be a stealth position after all.

[eridani]

33. I am firmly in the strategic camp "Keep asking for a pony, even if you'll take a kitten"

I can't for the life of me figure out why Dems won't advocate for popular policies, even if you have to negotiate to get something done.

You noticed that Social Security is STILL on the table. How in fucking hell do we get from the Republican Eisenhower who called people wanting to mess with Social Security stupid, to the DLC (supposedly Democrats) openly advocating privatization? Because back when it seemed stupid even to our elite, the Repubs started hammering away at it and never quit. I think there's a lesson there somewhere.

[Mythsaje]

34. I'm not arguing...

The Repugs know how to negotiate...insist on the biggest prize imaginable and never give up. Rather than moving closer to compromise, move away from it.

Reminds me how my dad used to negotiate with me. I'd ask for twenty bucks and he'd offer me ten. I'd counter with fifteen and he'd offer nine. I'd damn well jump on that 10 after that.

[The Backlash Cometh]

39. They're calling for privatized social security because those Democrats

still think we have to feed the hungry Wall Street monster. And it's time they see that the middle class no longer sees Wall Street as a friend.

[Mythsaje]

41. I've called it "feeding the monster" for a long time now...

And I agree.

The problem is that it's only us, on the "fringes" who can put a name to the monster all of America can hear breathing in the darkness. The rest of them know it's there, but they're just not sure where, or what to call it.

[The Backlash Cometh]

47. Republicans in the middle class know it too.

My hubby, who is apolitical and who has great respect and a wonderful working relationship with his co-workers, just spouted out to me a few weeks ago, that they're trying to do away with the middle class. It just came out of his mouth. Most of his co-workers are Republican. We don't talk politics, so he must have heard it from them.

[Jim Lane]

37. Here's a suggestion about persuading Edwards that single-payer would indeed fly....

People who favor single-payer health care could support a candidate who endorses it (like, say, Kucinich). They could also tell the Edwards campaign why they're making their choice.

We have this weird Catch-22 where all the leading candidates are afraid that single-payer seems too radical, so they shy away from it, so it has no supporters polling at double digits, so it seems too radical, so candidates shy away from it.

It's a different story among the voters. These are people who don't have to worry about seeming credible enough to raise millions of dollars or to be invited to the Sunday talkfests, but who do have to worry about providing for their families. Millions of those people aren't afraid to tell pollsters that they want single-payer.

[madeline_con]

2. It's about damned time.

Edwards all the way!

[jillan]

4. Biden did a good job on her tonite too. He was smooth as silk

while he told the audience that she has too much baggage to win or get anything done.

[Honeycombe8]

10. He did make a good point, didn't he? I think he may be wrong, but it was....

something to think about. She's been a senator for 7 years, though, and working with both sides of the aisle, so apparently there hasn't been a holdover of uncooperation towards her from her hubby's presidency. Still, that might change if she were to be President.

In the end, we can only vote for someone we think is not totally detestable and who could win most easily. I still don't know who that is.

Biden did well tonight.

[Think82]

13. then Biden's your guy

the only adult in the room, if you ask me.

[Honeycombe8]

5. Hillary was on his left. nt

[calteacherguy]

7. "Her health care plan seems to have come from a health care insurance lobbyist."

I presume then, since Elizabeth Edwards is on record as saying Clinton "copied" Edwards' health plan, that Edwards' health care plan "seems to have come from a health care insurance lobbyist" as well?

What say you?

[Lerkfish]

25. I"m reminded of an old Star Trek episode

when famous good and bad people from history were resurrected and pitted against each other.
In the end, the good and bad teams used the same tactics. The difference was their motivation.
If Edwards and Clinton's plan are close, then you look at the motivation. Clinton has received immense pharma and insurance lobby funding. Like her friend, Joe Lieberman, Those industries are paying the piper for them to dance.

That might be the case with Edwards, too, I don't know. But I'm fairly secure in saying Clinton's plan is all about the insurance industry and what THEY want or need.

[cutlassmama]

26. good point!

[Mythsaje]

31. Both plans have high levels of suckage. n/t

[Donnachaidh]

8. what was with the *3 point plan* NON answers?

That was irritating, and a waste of the viewers time. She spent so much time saying absolutely NOTHING with her *plans*.

If I want empty doublespeak I'll vote for a repuke. :grr:

[jmp]

12. She does that when she doesn't have a ready answer.

She's just buying time. My problem with it is that once you start down that road ... you need to come up with 3 points. That's pretty tough to do in a minute when you didn't even have 1 to start with. :P

[Hell Hath No Fury]

9. And thank the gods for that.

There may be reason for hope after all. :)

[knight_of_the_star]

14. The danger of being the frontrunner

It happened to Dean, now its happening to Hillary. There's a reason point position in the Army is not the plum spot in combat patrols.

[illinoisprogressive]

15. Obama got a good shot at her too. But, edwards did well tonight.

[BootinUp]

16. You mean the healthcare plan she stole

from Johnny?

I think you overstate things.

An Edwards supporter calling Hillary a phony is open to a counter-attack on that ground don't you think?

I wouldn't start counting wrecking balls just yet either.

Actually Edwards did fine in the debate, he seems to like debating in Iowa.

[nealmhughes]

17. Gravel absolutely devastated her! It was as if she wasn't expecting plain talk from him . . .

I felt my own cheeks turn a bit red at that dig he got! Then I just relished it and began to laugh.

[Cameron27]

18. I don't think so.

Biden was more effective IMO.

[girl gone mad]

36. I thought Biden and Edwards were both good.

It was the first time I could really envision Biden as President.

[Think82]

40. the first time?

where have you been? Biden's the most amazing candidate we've had in a long while.

[sandnsea]

20. Her cackle said it all

I suspect somebody is advising her of an alternative strategy as we speak.

[Clintonista2]

21. The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

[Lerkfish]

22. Well, I don't think Clinton is a PNACer.

I think she is as much a warmonger as a neocon, but she's not a neocon.

[IndianaGreen]

28. Hillary is a PPI neoliberal

which on the flip side has the PNAC neocons. It is a different flavour of imperialism, but it is still imperialism.

[Lerkfish]

32. ok that's closer.

[Mythsaje]

42. I think she's signed on to some of their policy positions

out of convenience or inertia, but she doesn't share their ideology.

[Steve_in_California]

23. The air has been let of the Hillary Balloon.

And Mike Gravel spoke with authority in condemning her conduct as shameful. John Edwards finished her off. It was an ambush she had set for herself . . . and she walked right in to it.

[Clintonista2]

27. LOL! Mike gravel "spoke with authority"?

He sounded like he had a very serious case of rabies to me.

[Sapphire Blue]

35. If Gravel has a "very serious case of rabies", then Clinton had better get to the ER; Gravel did...

... some damage. "LOL"? It wasn't funny; it was a powerful blow to Sen. Clinton.

[Cameron27]

24. I doubt it.

This wasn't her best debate, but it's too early to make that call IMO.

[wyldwolf]

43. Again??

[Andy Canuck]

44. Hillary possible?

I think Hil is dead in the water for 2 reasons.

1. She voted for Kyl/Lieberman and by the time election day comes the war with Iran will be overshadowing the war with Iraq, and Hillary will have her vote swinging in the wind.

2. Sadly I don't think the US is really ready to elect a woman, no matter how brilliant or capable. To put forward such a risky candidate at a time when it is so necessary to ensure Democratic electoral victory is unwise and dangerous for the US and the world. Better to ensure a candidate who will at most maintain the wars started, than to allow a Republican candidate to win, who might very well start new wars.

[wyldwolf]

46. So your contention is THIS time the dismantling of Hillary has REALLY REALLY begun...?

[Perry Logan]

45. Sounds to me like the competitiors are getting desperate.

[William769]

48. If that was the Dismantling of Hillary.

You need to find a new crew.

[Froward69]

50. Biden and Edwards

both clearly won the debate in my opinion. however Edwards constantly comes off as a used car salesman. you will buy if you are dead set on that car or not leary enough to see through the bullshit.

[THUNDER HANDS]

49. the used car salesman insulting the screeching manequin

I'll sit this one out.


:)

j/k, I like them both.