Two Observations About The Debate

[DemocratSinceBirth]

It seems that Obama, Clinton, and Edwards staked out positions virtually indistinguishable from one another , especially on Iran, our relationship with Israel, the use of force, and the Iraq war, so it comes down, in my mind, to which one of those three has the best chance against the eventual GOPU nominee...

I also think Dennis Kucinich raises a good point about Iraq. The U.S.A doesn't have the right to decide how Iraq's government is ordered or how it will be divided. This isn't the early twentieth century , America is not Sykes and Picot, and doesn't get to carve up the Middle East according to their whim.

[papau]

1. I agree - but the aggressive attacks on Clinton made the debate more even so she

at best won by not losing big.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. There Is Very Little Difference Between Biden, Dodd, Clinton, Richardson, And Obama

They are pretty much generic Democrats...

It strikes me as a form of vanity for a supporter of one of these candidates to suggest when it comes to policy they are fundamentally different than the others...

So, it comes down to who has the best chance of winning...

[THUNDER HANDS]

3. in terms of debating

I think the top three, in the format's we're currently seeing are

1. Clinton
2. Edwards
3. Obama

If the debate were more like real debate-club style debates, they'd be

1. Edwards
2. Clinton
3. Obama

But like I said before, the only thing worth discussing is who has a better shot at winning the presidency. They're all in 98% agreement with eachother on most issues, and would act that way as president.

We're not talking Joe Lieberman v. Dennis Kucinich here.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. A Lot Of People Here "Violently" Disagree With That

"But like I said before, the only thing worth discussing is who has a better shot at winning the presidency. They're all in 98% agreement with each other on most issues, and would act that way as president."


If there is a difference, imho, it's in demeanor, marketing, and appearance...

[THUNDER HANDS]

7. different sodas

Coke, Pepis, RC Cola

how much of a real difference is there?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. Ha

I do think Kucininch and Gravel are significantly different than their rivals...

But I think the posturing between the supporters of the other five candidates is a function of the narcissism of small differences...

[THUNDER HANDS]

9. Kucinich is Mountain Dew

Gravel is like Tang

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. He's Hilarious

I like when he boasted of stiffing the credit card companies...

[Sparkly]

4. I agree -- no real differences, and it's easy to forget the role of Congress in all this.

Most of the proposals and ideas they're talking about would be hashed out in Congress, anyway.

I agree that the US can't dictate a political solution to Iraq. However, we could go in with advisors, try to help forge a settlement, and put things like Biden's idea out there (although I don't think that would fly).

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. Constitutionally -The President's Power Is Limited

To me the most important thing they can , constitutionally , do is appoint judges and start (not declare) wars... I don't see a big difference between the three when it comes to those areas...

[flaminbats]

11. I noticed significant differences on Social Security..

Biden, Obama, Kucinich, and Edwards all showed a willingness to eliminate the cap on taxable income for the payroll tax. I thought Edwards and Biden gave the most thoughtful answers on how to do that.

but I found it frustrating when Dodd claimed this wouldn't be necessary, with pleasantries from Clinton and Richardson about "more wind-power and growing the economy" instead of providing an alternative or explaining why millionaires shouldn't pay the Social Security tax!

[hedgehog]

12. We're not just selecting a set of positions, but a person

Maybe we project our hopes on the candidate we support, but whatever your choice, Obama, Clinton and Edwards will each be attempting to focus their efforts on different problems we face. Whoever gets elected will be facing issues and events that we can't predict. PArt of what wee are evaluating is how thee candidates will differ in their approaches to future events.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. I Suspect They Would All ,More Or Less , Respond To The Same Events The Same Way

To a point...

I guess it comes down to what you think is the engine of history, great men or women, or events...

For instance, whoever was the president on 12/7/41 was going to declare war on Japan for bombing Pearl Harbor...

Whoever was the president in April of 1861 was not going to allow South Carolina to secede...

[hedgehog]

14. It's not a matter of responding to events, but how you respond.

Imagine this speech given on 9/11:

Tonight we mourn the deaths of thousands of our fellow citizens. Our information is that these deaths were caused by a small group of fanatics. Tonight I call upon all nations to assist us in hunting down these groups by having our law enforcement agencies work together to bring them to justice. I have already instructed the head of the FBI to share resources and information with Interpol.

The life blood of these fanatics is money. I will be working with Congress to enact laws to track the money that supports these groups. Without money, they can not function.

Finally, we need to begin answering the questions " How could anyone do this? Why do these people hate us so much?" I will be working with my Cabinet to develop initiatives to bring average Americans together with citizens of other nations so that we can work together as neighbors to solve our disputes instead of destroying each other as enemies.


BTW - think how history would have been changed had Lincoln steered us through Reconstruction, had Hayes not sold out the ex-slaves to win election.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. There Was A Consensus For Invading Afghanistan When The Taliban Wouldn't Turn Over OBL...

The resolution to invade Afghanistan passed, almost, by unanimous consent, and Biden, Kucinich, Dodd, Clinton, and Edwards were in Congress at that time... In other words, the events dictated the response...

Oh, I'm not an economic determinist, I grant that great men and women influence events... My point is that you can expect like minded people to respond roughly the same to the same stimulus or stimuli ... That's how we navigate life...We have a rough idea of how people will react to our actions...