Before the end of Sunday Sept 30th, dontate to KUCINICH- to Hell with these other "Dems"!

[MrMickeysMom]

Sometimes you just have to look at what Clinton, Obama, and other candidates are saying and decide who, in fact, is willing to go forward with evolution of our species. I'm so upset with all the others (even Edwards) on the war and health care. They HAVE NO VISION. Kucinich has ALWAYS had this vison.

So, since Kucinich, needs help to raise the final 150,000 dollars for this campaign quarter before the critical FEC filing deadline at midnight on SUNDAY, SEPT. 30th, I say (for all who can, and have not done this already) DONATE!

Geez, you'd think the future of this nation depended on this...

:dem: :hi:

[katmondoo]

1. I like Dodd

Not pretentious, pragmatic. Kucinich says the right things but how he can do it is a mystery. We need more than the right words. What has he done in the last 4 years?

[Totally Committed]

3. Dodd is DLC, just in case that sort of thing matters to you...

(i.e. He's part of the "Hostile Takeover" of this Party.)

Just saying. :hi:

TC

[MrMickeysMom]

5. I believe Kucinich has done a lot in the last 4 yrs...

He has tried to call attention through legislative bills a significant number of bills on the right type of health care, and he is currently not in a congressional leadership position to steer legislation for action. As you probably know, those positions are appointed by the same folks who are very much commmitted to the DLC. The house Dems elect their leadership and there is a lot of politics there, too.

Kucinich as been a leader under the most challenging times. In my view, THAT constitutes MORE than words. It's vision, and it's severly lacking in this country now.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Kelly Rupert]

16. What has he actually done?

I mean, start pointing to bills that he sponsored that actually passed. Part of leadership is getting people to follow you, you know. If he can't get any of his ideas through Congress now, what makes you think he'll be able to as President?

[MrMickeysMom]

20. You already know that the "party leaders" have a lot to say about the introduced...

... legislation, which if they have automatically dismissed as "fringe", so there is not a hell of a lot that could be done without being insider the inner circle. Fact is, DK is ignored by those who are "leading" the Democratic party. I find this intimidation and the response to it to be FEAR based. I don't know about you, but I'm not going to base my vote on that fear. Had he been part of this "DLC circle", perhaps we would have gone forwar with-

1) February 3, 2003 HR 676 proposing to the 2000 Democratic Platform Committee, creatation of a national health care system, Medicare for All.
(Wow, what a fringe concept!)

2) 2004, when he ran for Prez on platform of peace, universal single payer not for profit health care and fair trade conditioned on workers rights, human rights and environmental quality principles, only possible through the cancelling of NAFTA and withdrawal from the WTO. (again trying to present a plan to the Democratic platform committee for Medicare for all.)

Hey, how many hear love that NAFTA? Anybody?

3) 2006, while not being at the "helm" of committees, or party "leadership, was chosen by his colleagues to be the chair of the Government Oversight and Reform investigative subcommittee on Domestic Policy.

Those are some odds. It happens to be that we are at the "tipping point" and the fact is, he has been DEAD RIGHT about this stuff. Little recognition, but recognition, non the less.

4) This last December, after seeing that congressional Democrats had no intention of ending the war in Iraq, he tried to lead with a campaign for the Presidency based on a new national security doctrine of Strength through Peace which turns the dominant neoconservative doctrine of Peace through Strength on its head.

Now, when considering what he COULD do as president, I believe it mostly lies behind his bully pulpit and the American people who would be so much more at the center of the discussion.

What, you don't think we can become "we the people"? I still think I'm one of the people. If you've tossed that notion out, then tear up that constitution right now.

[slick8790]

18. Ideas don't do anything if you're too stubborn to work with others and get them passed.

What legislation has Kucinich passed in the last 4 years?

[MrMickeysMom]

21. Congress passes legislation, not single members of Congress. Next Question?

By the way, you have chosen an interesting quote at the bottom of your posts - one from Mike Gravel...

:wtf: Talk about stubborn persons who won't work with others...

[slick8790]

23. Fine then. What legislation has DK written and sponsored (no co-sponsored) that has been passed?

Secondly, Mike Gravel has done more for America than Dennis is likely ever to do. A single person, 5 month filibuster of the draft? That's Mike Gravel. The reading of the pentagon papers in to the congressional record? Mike Gravel, again. I'm not supporting him for president, for obvious reasons, but in just those two accomplishments he's earned my eternal respect.

What similar accompishments can you point to for Kucinich?

[MrMickeysMom]

25. I can't point to the same accomplishments. I don't think the litmus test for Presidency...

is introduction and to passing legislation so much as it is lighting the fuse for others to do the same thing he set out to do with his previous house bills.

That's what it has been in terms of other members who are in leadership positions of Congress incorporating the same health related and war related bills Dennis Kucinich has been working on since 2003. I think his determination about universal health care reform is on top. Also, he is the only one in the running who voted with the American people against this senseless war.

I agree with you about Mike Gravel's filibuster and his moment that will (or should be) remembered in history. Were his views not wacked out on domestic fiscal policy, I'd give him a better look, I think.

Message here- In my view, the kind of leadership to bring us back to the 21st century will come from people like Kucinich. If the litmus test is how a member of congress not appointment to the top of committees can't get legislation through, well, then I guess DK didn't bring it to the home stretch. There is deal making and then there is deal making. I'm sick & tired of the deal making where your trade offs constantly benefit the corporate class.

[slick8790]

28. I'd give Kucinich a better look if he could point to one or more of the following:

1. The ability to win a statewide race
2. The ability to get legislation passed
3. The ability to work with others.

[iamjoy]

2. I Am Tempted

I have been an Edwards supporter. But as a Floridian, I'm a little ticked off about the Four State Pledge. In a way, Edwards hoisted his petard with me by signing it and making a statement with words to the effect of ideas mattering more than money.

Kucinich has not signed it.

I agree with Kucinich on a lot of issues, but question his ability to be effective. Most people in this country are not that liberal. Kucinich's courage will be what does him in, he won't compromise and won't back down. Things will have to get even worse before enough people would be willing to go along with him.

My heart says support Kucinich. My head says no.

:dilemma:

[MrMickeysMom]

4. You mean the fighting between the DLC and FL delegation to up the Primary Date?

I'm curious, what makes you think he would be less effective? I've thought about that, as well.

I agree that most of the population are not "liberal", but having said that, many of the bold "liberal" ideas are part of the "middle of the road" Americans, when you start having this conversation.

I respect your conclusion, but I have to get my heart and head to come together on this thing.

:-)

[iamjoy]

17. Well, You Have A Point

I mean, more people identify themselves as conservative than liberal, but that is largely a framing issue. I think if you asked, even people who claim to be conservative if they thought that every person who worked full time deserved health insurance, they would agree.

I think Dennis Kucinich would not be effective because the special interests would fight him every inch of the way. I don't think he is persuasive enough to get broad public support, and that's based on history. It's not fair because people dismiss him as not having a chance, therefore, he has no chance. But the fact of the matter is, if he lacks the je na sais quoi to build that support, he won't get it.

[MrMickeysMom]

19. Hey, I like your French, but here are my last thoughts...

I hate being put in a "frame" to describe myself as "liberal" or "conservative". Fact is, going back to the definition of the word, I'd say most of us in this land are fiscally conservative (I want to save up to replace my screen door before it snows this year!).

If Kucinich is behind the bully pulpit, he has the ear of the American people- those same Americans who understand and will be the first to join an open door to consider what is going to be foremost in the DEMOCRATICALLY controlled House & Senate.

Those dismissing him as having a chance are not quite believing what transformation a presidency can have on this country. Look what happened in the past 6 plus years. This should tell you how much things can change. Yet, I can't blame them for doing that, but I'm not going to be one of them.

Peace out, now- :patriot:

[1monster]

9. Go with your heart in the Primary. Vote with your head in the General Election...

[saltpoint]

6. Dennis Kucinich is one Democrat. He's not the only Democrat.

He's not the only Democrat with vision.

And unless he assembles a more imaginative campaign team with a different campaign strategy, he also isn't going to be the next U.S. president, or even come close.

A very good man with a so-far ineffective and unsuccessful and therefore questionable strategy for national election.

[MrMickeysMom]

8. Curious about who that other Democrat with vision is....

Christopher Dodd?

Anyone?

I'd like to know what thing ISN'T different with Kucinich's campaign strategy, too. Seems pretty original to me.

It's for the way candidates currently use negative campaign adds, and safe trans-platform messages as the method of strategy that I do question our Democratic strategy for winning national elections.

Then, of course, there is that HAVA which will never confirm any of it, eh?

[saltpoint]

11. No sale. Kucinich is not breaking 3% in most polling. He didn't break

3% in most polling in 2004. He's not breaking 3% now.

His campaign modality is more or less the same as it was in 04 and in 04 it was trampled.

Kucinich is not original so much as traditional. He's the true heart and the clear head working for the better and stronger chance for heightened citizenry. I'd love to have him as a prototypical public servant, but Democratic primary and caucus voters reject him in overwhelming numbers.

To me, that indicates the need for swift and dramatic reform in the way his campaign strategy is conceived, and to date that change has not been forthcoming.

[MrMickeysMom]

12. So, because the leaders control the candidate message, excellent candidates running

... should jump to the tune of (thus, dance to the Democratic leadership, all messages controlled by the DLC?)

As you say, NO SALE!

The only campaign strategy to be reformed has a much broader application. That will take someone with vision at the helm not dancing to party (DLC) tunes played over and over and over again. It's killing us.

As someone who recognizes the candidate, but responds to the polls, can you not see how fucked up this passion play has become?

[saltpoint]

14. Neither you nor I, nor Kucinich, nor anyone else alive is to be held

uniquely or solely accountable for the election apparatus as it stands.

I'm in favor of reforming it, for my part, but my guess is it won't be a quick weekend project.

Kucinich is a good man with an unsuccessful political strategy. If there's a change in that disequilibrium, we'll all notice it.

He's in charge of his own campaign; he needs to make the necessary calls. That's how the game is played until consensus is reached that the rules must change.

[OzarkDem]

7. That's what I'm doing

[ecstatic]

10. I like what Gravel and Kucinich say but are they just saying what we want to hear

all the while knowing that there is no way for their ideas to actually be implemented?

[MrMickeysMom]

13. You must be pretty injured by all "that truth"...

... on which you have based your conclusion.

This seems like a false argument. You already know they can't possibly mean it. What does this mean? You are all knowing?

:o ... Hey, where can I get some of that psychic power?

[ecstatic]

15. No, basing it on their great yet outlandish answers at the last debate

Lower voting age to 16?

Lower drinking age to 18?

And they said immediate troop withdrawal, which I definitely want, but I know they wouldn't have the power to get it done *immediately.*

Then Gravel's answer regarding credit cards was irresponsible, IMO. I hate credit card companies too, but it's not fair that he got to file bankruptcy and brag about it, all the while I have to pay hundreds a month.

[LWolf]

22. Kucinich always backs his talk.

HR 676. HR 808. I could go on. My point is that he always steps up to the plate when he says he will.

[Desertrose]

24. Done

Not much but what I could afford.... :)

[MrMickeysMom]

26. You're proportionally superior, then! :-)

I wish I could afford more, too.

:thumbsup:

[penguin7]

27. Why give your good money to the corporate candidates?

[ileus]

29. They'll get enough of my tax dollars in the general election...

I'm not giving crap that isn't required.

[slipslidingaway]

30. Only $7000 to go n/t