Why is it a "cackle?" Because she's a woman? Stop the sexism

[ecstatic]

Definitions of cackle on the Web:

* the sound made by a hen after laying an egg
* talk or utter in a cackling manner; "The women cackled when they saw the movie star step out of the limousine"
* yak: noisy talk
* squawk shrilly and loudly, characteristic of hens
* a loud laugh suggestive of a hen's cackle
* emit a loud, unpleasant kind of laughing

[hlthe2b]

1. Because they want to associate her with a WITCH

and yes, it is an incredible show of misogyny that should be called on, whether you like HRC or not.

[pnwmom]

4. Exactly. Witches "cackle." And this is dirty politics. n/t

[cobalt1999]

12. I've never heard the word "cackle" used to describe a man's laugh.

I'm surprised daily the extra crap she has to put up with because she is a woman.

[polichick]

30. For men they use "guffaw"...

And that has no secondary meaning that I know of.

[RaleighNCDUer]

34. Ebeneezer Scrooge cackled. nt

[goodgd_yall]

59. Ok, then old men and women n/t

[emilyg]

44. Exactly.

[goodgd_yall]

58. Absolutely

I never thought of her laugh as a cackle by any stretch of the imagination.

[Sparkly]

64. That's what I think, too!!!

:mad:

[ginchinchili]

73. i.e., support Hillary or you're a sexist

I personally abhor the idea of thought policing no matter if it comes from the right or the left. My grandmother used to say my sister cackled, and she'd have done anything for my sis. Does that mean my grandmother was sexist? I'll give you a clue. Her and my grandfather moved to a small rural town in Ohio around 1928. She chose to go to a different church than my grandfather. My grandfather was a lifelong Republican. My grandmother always voted Democrat. They remained happily married until my grandfather's death in 1991.

There's a post floating around near this one that is making fun of Romney for saying "if you will" at the end of every sentence. Are they making fun of the way he talks because they're sexist against men, against Romney? God help us.

[hlthe2b]

80. ridiculous... I doubt there is 1 in 10 posting on this thread that

currently support her. I do not, in the primaries, at least. But, you are being incredibly naive to think that this silliness about her laugh is not yet another attempt to demonize her by the RW and yes, the choice of terms "cackle" is both intentional and sexist.

[Mojambo]

2. Hmm. I never knew "Cackle" was specific to the feminine

Learn something new every day.

[Blue_In_AK]

3. Call it a laugh, if you like.

It still grates on MY nerves. Fingernails on a chalkboard, every time I hear it.

[jillan]

5. It has nothing to do with her being a female and everything to do with how irritating it is.

[pnwmom]

6. Maybe for you that's all it is, but there's clearly sexism involved for some,

especially when the word "cackle" is used.

[applegrove]

9. I love her laugh. I hope she keeps it up. It is disarming and pleasant.

[ecstatic]

13. I like it too. As long as it's directed towards rethugs or in response to an outrageous

statement or question, I have no problem with it. The only time her laugh pissed me off was when she did it in response to a question about her Iran vote.

[applegrove]

42. I didn't see that. But I agree where it is appropriate she should laugh away.

[goodgd_yall]

60. I agree with you

It's inappropriate when it's a legitimate question that she needs to take seriously.

[Bucky]

14. The consistant and repeated application of the laugh (yet she didn't do it before)...

It suggests that her good natured chuckle at questions that she thinks are silly is a premeditated tactic for avoiding controversy. It seems a rehearsed to me. Laughing at retarded questions on Fox makes sense. Laughing at Gravel's anguish at her vote on the war seems a little out of place, and a bit, perhaps, in bad taste. There's someting funny about any pointed questions coming from Chris Wallace. There's something inherently goofy about Mike Gravel. There's not a damn thing funny about the war.

[applegrove]

28. I love her laugh. I hope she keeps it up. It is disarming and pleasant.

[applegrove]

29. I love her laugh. I hope she keeps it up. It is disarming and pleasant.

[emilyg]

45. I do, too. Makes me grin.

[tigereye]

7. I like her laugh

:shrug:

[seriousstan]

8. Because the only other person to laugh like that was POPEYE!

Or mabe his mom....

[Quixote1818]

10. Google search for "HE cackled"

TheForce.Net's Fan Fiction Archive
He cackled evilly to himself, and then thought that perhaps that was a little over the top. Every would-be tyrant cackled evilly. He pondered, and then ...
fanfic.theforce.net/pdafanfic.asp?ID=1151 - 7k - Cached - Similar pages
youssif - Search results for youssif - CNN.com
He cackled with laughter, kicking the water with his feet and splashing with his hands. He dipped his face in the water and blew bubbles. ...
search.cnn.com/search.jsp?query=youssif&type=news&sortBy=date&intl=false&iref=mpvideossearch - 21k - Cached - Similar pages
The Nature of the Beast - Google Books Result
by Milton Sanford Mayer - 1975 - Philosophy
Didn't dissent about me, though,” and he cackled and went on. “Yes, sir, I was a clear and present danger. Obstructing the war. Never did get it obstructed, ...
books.google.com/books?isbn=0870231766...
Welcome to Rainbow Land - the Home of Rainbow Brite!
He put on a flowering robe, a turban, and a long, white cotton beard. He looked like a magician. "Behold!" he cackled. "Murko the Magnificent!" ...
www.rainbowbrite.net/books/magiccarpet.html - 19k - Cached - Similar pages
Jedi Council Forums - End of the Begining, or Begining of the end?
as he cackled "I'll get you, if it's the last thing I do!" Locked Topic | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History ...
boards.theforce.net/bowling_green_ky/b10439/11194094/p1/?10 - 55k - Cached - Similar pages
You Can't Go Home Again - Google Books Result
by Thomas Wolfe - 1998 - Fiction - 720 pages
he cackled. “For no one else has got ‘em! . . . Just let me know when you're comin' an' I'll be here.” Slowly the years crept by and George lived alone in ...
books.google.com/books?isbn=0060930055...
FVL.17.English.rtf
He cackled "You probably think that I work driving donkeys because they have ears larger than mine. However, that's not the case. In fact the average donkey ...
www.loglan.org/FVLNotes/FVL.17.English.htm - 8k - Cached - Similar pages
[e-mail]: <11774> in libertarians
He cackled w = "Evidently something that could be there," French said. "I didn't expe = "You don't suppose anything of the sort. ...
diswww.mit.edu/menelaus.mit.edu/libertarians/11774 - 21k - Cached - Similar pages
Just Beyond Tomorrow - Google Books Result
by Bertrice Small - 2002 - Fiction - 352 pages
He nodded his white head. “She's right,” he agreed, “but ‘tis more a Brodie attitude than she would want, I'm thinking.” He cackled again, but then he began ...
books.google.com/books?isbn=1575667371...
The Hindu : Magazine / Literature : Parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme
This time he cackled loudly. "I told you what I am doing. Confronting thyme. A sage? My foot! I am simply someone who is staring at thyme. ...
www.hindu.com/thehindu/mag/2005/07/24/stories/2005072400280600.htm - 22k - Cached - Similar pages
Eco Wars - Post Message
His cloak faded as he watched the elf squirm. "Fool."He cackled loudly and approached the squirming bleeding elf. "Now..i'll cut off your fingers one by one ...
ecowars.proboards84.com/index.cgi?board=makers&action=post&thread=1187930698"e=1187932321... - 58k - Cached - Similar pages
The star rover - Google Books Result
by Jack London - 1915 - 329 pages
You're a good one, Standing," he cackled. " You never squealed." " But I never knew, Jack," I whispered back — I was compelled to whisper, for five years of ...
books.google.com/books?id=HywoAAAAMAAJ...
The Star Rover: Chapter 4
"That's right," he cackled, nodding his head childishly. "Stick with it. Don't ever let'm know. You're a good one. I take my hat off to you, Standing. ...
london.sonoma.edu/Writings/StarRover/chapter4.html - 16k - Cached - Similar pages
A dumpster diver's Christmas
"They said a man can't live without standin' firm for the things he believes in. Mister, can't you see? I got away with it!" He cackled mirthlessly. ...
www.presenceofmind.net/gsw/Diver.html - 14k - Cached - Similar pages
Yahoo! Answers - K Okay..... Story writers.....Ready for something ...
he cackled, I swear he cackled as he danced on the bridge beams. "I want to tell you a story," I desperately replied, trying to get his attention on me. ...
answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070825165245AAwc03z&show=7 - 114k - Cached - Similar pages
The Philosophical Strangler - Google Books Result
by Eric Flint - 2001 - Fiction - 352 pages
He turned to Henry. "I can trust you to make the usual arrangements with the ... he cackled horridly—"to gain even the slightest comfort from my demise. ...
books.google.com/books?isbn=0671319868...
AGGREGATE DEMAND
He cackled. "I must be away with my chill-gotten gains!" "Your puns end here, Winter!" I shouted defiantly. "You forget, Rushing!" he cackled again. ...
www.aggregatedemand.com/ - 33k - Cached - Similar pages
Butterflies and Wheels Article
He cackled again. “I get to say any old thing I want to, and you just have to sit there and fume. You think that’s not fun?” He shook his head. “Wrong.” ...
www.butterfliesandwheels.com/articleprint.php?num=204 - 16k - Cached - Similar pages
Chuang-Tzu for Spiritual Transformation: An Analysis of the Inner ... - Google Books Result
by Robert E. Allinson - 1989 - Religion
Meng-sun is devalued to some extent because he cackled (or wailed) at the funeral. Better (so it is implied) if he had remained silent. ...
books.google.com/books?isbn=088706969X...
Neopets Story Competition
he cackled insanely. "I guess you have earned yourself this first one," he said glaring at them, before throwing the dark sword at their feet. ...
www.neopets.com/art/storytell.phtml?issue=118 - 69k - Cached - Similar pages

[JuniperLea]

16. Great minds, and all that...

Only I Googled "his cackle"... got a ton of hits for it too.

[Exultant Democracy]

20. Didn't you know all criticism of Clinton is sexism? Don't confuse the issue with your facts.

[PurityOfEssence]

88. Yet gender has nothing to do with her candidacy. Lefty women would flock to a man with that record.

There's no question about it: from far and wide (that's probably some kind of sexist crack too, and "crack" is definitely out of line) they'd gather to support the most conservative person of the bunch simply because of policies.

It has nothing to do with gender, except EVERYTHING ever used to criticize her is obvious wife-beating misogyny of the most primitive sort.

[DeepModem Mom]

11. You're right, it is a female term. I'm so sick of an issue being made about this...

I could throw. Hillary is not my candidate, but this is an undeserved hit job on her, and it will be a similar hit job on another of our candidates next, believe me. Here's a link to my thread on this --

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3567945&mesg_id=3567945

[JuniperLea]

17. Can you prove it's a "female" term?

Cuz it appears a few of us here have proved it is used for men as well.

[DeepModem Mom]

22. It is used for men. I offer no proof of its female evocation except a lifetime of listening.

I'm not interested in arguing. I'm so angry over the blowing up of this issue, because as I've posted in a thread of my own, it is the Gore sigh all over again. It is the Dean scream. It is Wes Clark's nonblinking eyes. The press uses these things to beat us in elections. I support a man in this race, but this kind of sh*t is easier with a woman. Believe me, the press is just warming up. Let's see who gets this 24/7 hit-jobbing next.

[Quixote1818]

21. As a writer, cackle is mostly used to describe the laugh of someone evil, male or female

I have a male character right now who has a evil cackle.

[DeepModem Mom]

23. See my post 22. nt

[JuniperLea]

15. Sexist my ass...

Google "his cackle" and you will see it's used all the time.

I've heard many male laughs referred to as a cackle... Google has too.

Grasping at straws in defense of anything subjective is a huge waste of time. And it doesn't make "her side" seem any brighter than the rest of us, if you get my drift.

[ecstatic]

19. Evil guys and villains... sure nt

[JuniperLea]

24. Not exclusively...

Not by a long shot.

[Mojorabbit]

18. This is another

on my last in line things to worry about...and cackle was always used in my family for either sex.

[mikelgb]

25. stop cackling all you DU hrc hens!

:rofl: cackling

oh the hugh manatee

[illinoisprogressive]

26. not only because it goes with Clinton but, she does have a cackle.

[emilyg]

47. Oh look - there's John Travolta.

[goodgd_yall]

61. lol

It's the preacher man. "Can I hear an 'Amen'?"

[Cameron27]

62. !

:rofl:

[hisownpetard]

27. Oh, who the hell cares?! How does Margaret Thatcher laugh? How about FDR? What a waste of energy.

[Mojambo]

31. FDR had a really endearing giggle.

Or so I've heard.

[hisownpetard]

79. Did he wrinkle his nose? I love it when that happens. n/t

[icnorth]

89. FDR giggling???

For sure I thought giggling was the exclusive domain of pubescent school girls! Who knew?:-)

[JDPriestly]

32. Men, especially villains in grade B movies, also cackle.

It is a cackle because it sounds like the sound a hen makes when it lays an egg. It is a dry laugh. We associate that sound with a cunning nature. Actually, men have it just as often as women. Cackle is a sound associated with pride in having performed a dastardly deed. The villain cackles upon seeing the victim squirm.

The sound is dry, brittle, condescending.

Actually, the hen's sound that is most feminine is the "cuckle." That is the term used to describe the softer, gentler sound made by a hen I believe.

The term "cackle" is quite appropriate to describe Hillary's laugh.

Here is Hillary in action:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8185038237608117009&q=code+pink+hillary&total=1174&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

No WMDs. No apology from Hillary. Hillary is all control, all politics all the time. The cackle is the closest thing she has to a laugh. It is horribly sad that she has so much support.

[emilyg]

49. What a small-thinking person you are.

[LanternWaste]

87. First 'The Scream'. Now 'The Cackle'.

First 'The Scream'. Now 'The Cackle'.

Puerile and banal infantism at its best, brought to you by DU ("DU-- Where issues once mattered, but we're over that now...")

[Forkboy]

33. The sexism charge is the equivalent of the Repukes wrapping themselves in a flag.

They're both used to silence criticism they don't like.

See post #10 for numerous examples of it being used with men, too.

[rocktivity]

35. Hillary doesn't cackle

If anything, her laugh is more like a bray.

:headbang:
rocknation

[jillan]

36. * a loud laugh suggestive of a hen's cackle* emit a loud, unpleasant kind of laughing

Your definition. Her laugh.

[nealmhughes]

37. OK, I promise to use "squawk" from now on, that is gender neutral isn't it? I've not the memo handy

Since it isn't a "chortle," a "guffaw," a "giggle," or even a "snort," what is the appropriate term for her bad stage laughter? It is the equivalent of a melodrama's stage whisper -- all she lacks is a set of opera glasses, a glass of sherry, and a cigarette holder for the full effect.

It is nearly as annoying to my ears as was the "My fiance" repetition of
Sigourney Weaver on the classic "A dingo et my baby" Seinfeld episode.

[ecstatic]

39. Any bird imagery seems sexist to me... nt

[flordehinojos]

38. it is a cackle because poppy promised to give hillary hell if she ran for president and tweety is

on poppy's bandwagon.

matthews must have forgetten about his own "ha" cackle which he emits from time to time.

and it isn't sad that so many are dying because of bush's plotting and lies and all that tweety is concerned about and obsessed by is Hillary's laughter?

and, personally, i like to hear hillary's laughter as she pauses to give herself time to answer some stoooopid question, or underscore in some sort of way something like, "you must be crazy to even think about so stooopid a question," such as the questions posed to her by timmy the russet 450 lb. of potatoe lard.

[ecstatic]

40. Matthews is just silly with his statement about needing at least 1 wasp sounding name

being necessary on a presidential ticket.

[kerrygoddess]

41. Patrick Healy is a hack!

He went after Kerry in '04 constantly.

The Healy Conundrum: What’s Behind the Attacks? - http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=6672

[rinsd]

46. Yup and he's been the NYT point man on every Hillary "scandal" this primary season (nt)

[Snarkturian Clone]

43. Important Message.

Your premise is bullshit.

[K8-EEE]

52. Snark is really never "important"

Yours is a snarky message, unless you want to explain what is wrong with the OPs premise?

IMO the dark side has been trying from the get-go to capitalize on their "base's" gender issues by feminizing the male candidates and alternately witch-izing/lesbian-izing Hillary.

[Snarkturian Clone]

91. The premise is continues to be bullshit.

It is an attempt to chastise democrats that do not want to vote for Hillary.

If you tell everyone that anyone who doesn't want to vote for Hillary is sexist, the hope is that some of them are malleable enough to say "oh shit, I'm not officially a liberal unless I pretend to be offended at everything to the nth degree" and switch to support of Hillary out of guilt and peer pressure.


I'm a democrat and I'm not voting for Hillary. Live with it. Yeah I know, "enjoy president ghouliani". There's still time- I'm not assuming Hillary is the one yet.

[David Zephyr]

48. George Bush laughs through his nose and wheezes when doing so

George Bush chews food and speaks at the same time to international dignitaries.

But Hillary's "laugh" is an issue. Give me a break.

[K8-EEE]

50. It's like the Howard Dean ARRRRRRGH or whatever....

BFD.....just another totally meaningless distraction.

[babylonsister]

51. The last definition works. nt

[TroglodyteScholar]

53. I'm sorry, but Hilary DOES cackle...

...and it's so fucking fake that it makes me sick. Does she think THAT is likeable? It certainly isn't natural.

Member of the HUMAN RACE for president, '08!

On edit:

* emit a loud, unpleasant kind of laughing

[Maven]

54. George Bush's laugh sounds MUCH more like a cackle to me

He sounds exactly like the Wicked Witch in slo-mo: "ENH...ENH...ENH...ENH..." :puke:

Hillary's laugh is just a laugh. If she didn't laugh people people would criticize her for being "stiff." It's bull.

[Olney Blue]

55. Cackle is an inappropriate term.

[Major Hogwash]

56. When she gets on her broom and flies off around the country, don't say we didn't warn you.

Surrender, Dorothy.

[Cameron27]

57. Thank you

It's used as a cheap smear. Incredibly some people here are trying to psychoanalyize it. :eyes:

[mark414]

63. because it sounds like a cackle

[Sparkly]

65. It sounds like a WOMAN LAUGHING.

I guess a LOT of us "cackle." :eyes:

[mark414]

68. oh right, i forgot

i hate all women, i should've posted that disclaimer

instead of everybody playing word police why isn't anybody talking about what is missing in place of hillary's cackle or laugh or giggle or guffaw or whatever the fuck you want to call it:

the ability to answer a question that would make her take a hard position

i know that would involve not being distracted, and focusing on things that really matter and all...but i think if we all try really hard we can do it!

[Sparkly]

70. I think that's a good idea.

Here we agree -- this is a distraction, and the candidates' answers are what's worth discussing.

(And if people criticized her for "laughing" at times they found inappropriate, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Could I have a Word Police badge?)

:)

[ruggerson]

66. But there's no misogyny at DU!

Someone called her a bitch this morning on another thread, but he isn't misogynist either!

[Cameron27]

67. Someone told us to watch for her to get on her broom

[Sparkly]

69. Oh, shades of Barbara Quaker Oats Man Bush...

Who famously called her "something that rhymes with witch."

"Shrill" is another word I can't stand.

[dflprincess]

71. The term doesn't bother me

Of course it's been used in my family forever to describe several family members laughs (mine included). Once, one of my cousins came up to me after a movie and said "I knew you had to be here, I heard you cackling."

Though, if I were running for office, I'd find a way to tone it down. I think Hillary sounds like she's stoned.

[Semper_FiFi]

72. K&R. Sexism is alive and well and shockingly living right here on DU

I don't know why democrats have chosen to jump on the repug wagon to attack Hillary. Yes, it is sexist. No one pokes fun at the way males laugh. But Hillary is an evil satanic witch. Didn't you know?:eyes:

[jgraz]

74. Sorry. I meant to say "evil and psychotic". My bad.

http://media.slate.com/podcast/soundplayer.swf?soundfile=Pol_070928_Laugh.mp3

[FlaxieB]

75. Hillary's cackle signals her trait: Hesitation: her avoidance of answering questions truthfully.

[ProudDad]

76. You're right

it was more of a forced yuckle than any "cackle" I've heard.

I loved what John Stewart's crew did with it though...

[Colobo]

77. It's not sexism. Her laughter is unpleasant.

[Lucinda]

81. I like it, actually. n/t

[Colobo]

82. It disturbs me.

[bvar22]

78. "squawk shrilly and loudly, "

Yup. Thats it.

It is also pretentious and lacks spontaneity.
Fingernails on a blackboard.

The Clinton Cackle is a recent development. It has only emerged as a defensive ploy in the last 2-3 weeks. Where did this suddenly come from?
I can't believe that it was tested on a Focus Group.
Hillary is usually the epitome of dignity and grace.

My advice to Hillary....Lose the Cackle.

[knight_of_the_star]

83. And I got knocked around for taking issue with the sexism strawman

Sounds like the last resort of the desperate here to me.

[Bonobo]

84. As I recall, the sexism strawman claim was met with a great deal of poo-pooing.

[Froward69]

85. I use the word "cackle" as in

an evil, crazy, laugh. I figured the "sexual discrimination" accusation would come out eventually. I don't support her because she is female. I don't support her because she is less than genuine. A "condom politician" if you will. practicing "safe politics." Telling YOU what you WANT to hear. Not necessarily what is best for America.

[PDittie]

86. I don't want Clinton to be the nominee

She's too conservative for my taste, and she's far too beholden to the corporate POV, and yes, she is going to be toxic to every other Democrat on the ballot with her, particularly throughout the South and West.

And I thought her laugh was fake and forced when I heard it several times last week, as she made the rounds of the Sunday Morning Talking Heads. If it makes other people feel like I do -- a little uncomfortable with the phoniness -- then she may have a real problem.

Emphasis on May.

I don't think it's sexist; I think walks right up to the edge of misogyny to call her laugh a cackle. Now as we move toward Halloween, it's inevitable that we're going to see some little kids (and some not-so-little ones) dressed up as Hillary the Witch, pointy hat and broom, cackling. That's fine. Jocularity and a little biting humor is part of the political game.

But I really don't want to see the Beltway pundits start to pull out words like 'cackle', because words like 'bitch' soon follow. And worse. That's not even safe ground for the Faux News pimps.

I'm calling bullshit now, before that tries to become her meme.

[ShortnFiery]

90. It's a true "cackle" - listen? ARRRRGH! Please stop cackling HRC?!? nt