Bucky
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Mon Oct-01-07 05:26 PM
Original message |
You know who had a shitty record in the Senate? John Kennedy. |
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Really, he was a lightweight in an era of giants (although still not quite the Senate's heyday). He sponsored some strong pro-labor bills--this was in the era of Taft-Hartley--but never had the votes or the pull to make much progress helping working families. He spoke out some against Eisenhower's policies that helped old colonial powers hang on for a few more years, but never sponsored major legislation in that area either. He abstained from the vote to censure Joe McCarthy, who was a personal friend and the godfather of one of JFK's nephews. He voted to water down the Civil Rights Act of 1957, which ended up making him popular among Southern politicians for the 1960 nomination.
This was only cynical positioning by a deft politician, as JFK could be accurately described as the president with the strongest Civil Rights record since Reconstruction. But Kennedy was no hotshot as a Senator. This post doesn't support or detract from any candidate running today. But I think it's worth pointing out that what a person has done as a legislator doesn't really mean a lot in terms of what kind of president they'll be. The two questions are almost entirely unrelated.
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dogman
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Mon Oct-01-07 05:30 PM
Response to Original message |
1. And what was his record as President? N/T |
DemocratSinceBirth
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Mon Oct-01-07 05:30 PM
Response to Original message |
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He abstained from the vote to censure Joe McCarthy, who was a personal friend , dated one of his sisters ,and the godfather of one of JFK's nephews.
FIXED
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DemocratSinceBirth
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Mon Oct-01-07 05:33 PM
Response to Original message |
3. He Also Was A War Hero Who Had A Movie Made About His Exploits |
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Edited on Mon Oct-01-07 05:33 PM by DemocratSinceBirth
He also wrote a book, Profiles In Courage, which earned him a Pulitzer Prize...
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Bucky
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Mon Oct-01-07 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
8. You left the quote marks off from the sentence, "JFK 'wrote' Profiles in Courage" |
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Fixed.
You may not be aware of this, but writing books and having movies made about you aren't exactly part of the job description for Senator.
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DemocratSinceBirth
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Mon Oct-01-07 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
10. No...But The Total Measure Of A Person Can't Be Found In Their Job Performance |
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That's why Lloyd Bentsen told Dan Quayle "he was no Jack Kennedy."
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Bucky
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Mon Oct-01-07 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
12. That's kinda the thesis of my original post |
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The point should not be lost that, while Kennedy was an intellectual, as a senator he was something of a lazy intellectual. I think that may be a good quality to have in president.
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DemocratSinceBirth
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Mon Oct-01-07 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
15. He Was Bright And Associated Himself With Intellectuals.. |
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I read he had an I.Q. of 117... That suggests you're bright but not Mensa material....
And I'm not Mensa material either but I try like Hell to inform myself...
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BootinUp
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Mon Oct-01-07 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
16. And truer words were never spoken. I still |
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love that line. I thought we were gonna win that year.
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Snotcicles
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Mon Oct-01-07 05:34 PM
Response to Original message |
4. I see you got my drift from that other post. nt |
XemaSab
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Mon Oct-01-07 05:35 PM
Response to Original message |
5. And he got us into 'nam. |
DemocratSinceBirth
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Mon Oct-01-07 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
7. There Were Advisers In Nam When He Got Into Office |
Bucky
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Mon Oct-01-07 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
9. And he expanded their role. We had a bigger force in '63 than we did in '61 |
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It took Johnson to turn it into a full scale fuckfest, but Kennedy certainly did expand the role of US advisors in that war.
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goodgd_yall
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Mon Oct-01-07 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
22. Well, if you want to talk about expand, then Johnson's your man. |
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The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution?
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Freddie Stubbs
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Mon Oct-01-07 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #22 |
28. Who picked Johnson as a running mate? |
DemocratSinceBirth
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Mon Oct-01-07 05:36 PM
Response to Original message |
6. Obama Is Closest To John Kennedy |
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Except for the war hero status and Pulizer Prize...
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itsrobert
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Mon Oct-01-07 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #6 |
11. Because he came from a family of wealth and extreme upper class? |
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Edited on Mon Oct-01-07 05:55 PM by itsrobert
I didn't know Obama was that wealthy. Maybe Oprah gave him a lot of money on the side?
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DemocratSinceBirth
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Mon Oct-01-07 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #11 |
13. Because He Would Be The First African American Pres |
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As Kennedy was the first Catholic pres...
They also represent a new generation of American politics...
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Bucky
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Mon Oct-01-07 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #13 |
14. My read on Obama isn't that he's running to be the first African-American president |
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Frankly, I find that consideration kind of shallow. Obama's my go-to candidate once my first choice gets kicked out of the race. But I honestly don't give a shit about his race.
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DemocratSinceBirth
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Mon Oct-01-07 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
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"He reminds me in many ways of Kennedy in 1960. The pundits said he was Catholic and too young and inexperienced and wasn't a member of the party's inner circle. They forgot that the nomination wasn't decided in Washington but out in the field,"
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/12-17-2006/0004492582&EDATE
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Bucky
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Mon Oct-01-07 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #18 |
19. Sorenson's a propagandist |
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The Kennedy nomination was very much the work of insiders. Kennedy was the choice of the Southern establishment who couldn't support Humphrey and didn't trust Johnson. He screwed them mildly with his support for Civil Rights, altho he made his choice only after the crises were brought out by the Movement. He made the right choices when the time came. But my point is that Sorenson is not an objective assessor of Kennedy's legacy, as if you didn't know that.
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goodgd_yall
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Mon Oct-01-07 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #19 |
24. What do you mean by Southern establishment? |
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Edited on Mon Oct-01-07 08:29 PM by goodgd_yall
Kennedy won less than half of the Southern states. That is quite a feat for a northeastern Catholic to get that many southern states, but, still, he didn't get the deep south except for Louisiana and his religion probably helped there, nor did he win Florida, Kentucky or Tennessee.
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goodgd_yall
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Mon Oct-01-07 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
23. You may not care about his race |
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but it will be a tremendous move forward to have an African-American president. I actually can be influenced by that possibility.
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geckosfeet
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Mon Oct-01-07 06:15 PM
Response to Original message |
17. Bay of Pigs,,, brother Bobby |
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Bay of Pigs InvasionNot much to say on this one. Brother Bobby was the last great hope.
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PatSeg
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Mon Oct-01-07 07:01 PM
Response to Original message |
20. We tend to have selective memories |
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I remember those days and there was a lot of controversy surrounding the Kennedy family and he was not beloved by all as we like to believe today.
Sometimes we tend to confuse the myth with the man, which is not to discount JFK's presidency. He was a smart, capable leader and an inspiring figure, but as your post reveals, there was no way of knowing that by his senate career.
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goodgd_yall
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Mon Oct-01-07 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #20 |
25. Let's say then for those who liked Kennedy, he was beloved |
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not just "liked" or "approved of."
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PatSeg
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Mon Oct-01-07 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #25 |
27. A lot of the beloved feelings I witnessed |
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came later, more in retrospect, when people realized what they had lost. When a president is in office, he isn't generally appreciated as much until later.
I knew people who didn't have a particularly high opinion of him at the time, but as the years passed they were able to see the historical significance of his presidency.
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goodgd_yall
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Mon Oct-01-07 07:49 PM
Response to Original message |
21. I agree, especially if the time as Senator as been short |
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If the Republicans make up a majority of the senate, there's going to be less success at getting bills to the point of being voted on. I don't know if that was the case when Kennedy was senator, but I think that can be a factor as well.
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smalll
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Mon Oct-01-07 08:07 PM
Response to Original message |
26. lol so what candidate is this supposed to help? |
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Edwards? Or Obama? You know who was a raging womanizer with a pill problem? John Kennedy. Does that mean we should go out and find some kind of cross between Colin Farrell and Rush Limbaugh, and elect him President instead?
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