Webb on Clinton as stated on Hardball tonight...not too kind

[Windy]

Said Hillary was trying to cover for her mistake in voting for Lieberman/Kyl by signing on to his legislation...

Those people who don't beieve it should watch the repeart of Hardball tonight.

Also said that his collegues who voted for the IWR new EXACTLY what they were signing onto. He said that they are now covering by trying to fuzz the reasons for their vote.


Webb also found Barack Obama's speech on the Iraq War and foreign policy "refreshing". His words.

Don't think Mrs. Clinton will be all too thrilled with his comments.

[quinnox]

1. fine, no VP spot for him!

Maybe he isn't as smart as I thought, he should be praising Hillary!

[Joe the Revelator]

3. You're right....all hail the queen. nt

[Windy]

4. No actually, hes 100 percent right about Hillary

Her vote was a mistake, just like her IWR vote was a mistake. She's using his legislation as a back door to try and right her most recent blunder.

Senator Webb certainly isn't going to turn away any Senator who will support what he is trying to do. And it appears that having her sign on is not going to prevent him from speaking out. Good for him!

[Colobo]

5. Webb is a good guy. He should endorse Obama.

[flpoljunkie]

78. The governor of Virginia, Tim Kaine, has already endorsed Obama. I hope Webb will, as well.

[fadedrose]

95. Webb should run for Pres, Obama for VP

[jefferson_dem]

What does her vote or anything she does have to do with whether she *should* be president?

I mean...seriously. It's her turn. Submit.

...

[Colobo]

8. Queen Hillary '08!

[jefferson_dem]

More like "JESTER"...

[Windy]

11. oops...must support Hillary Must Support Hillary...Must support Hillary

ohm....ohm... you must submit.... :o)

It is beginning to sound like that our there in media land..

Just like the drumbeat for Bush was sounding incessantly in 2000 and 2004... and see where that got us.

Ever see that Wendy's commercial with the Lemmings falling into the pit? That's what this election cycle is beginning to look like

Oh dear, I've drifted my own thread!!!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

13. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

[quinnox]

10. Webb should figure out some simple things first

Hillary has a very good chance of being the nominee of the Dems, and if Webb wants to be a good Democrat he better wise up and say nice things about Hillary or maybe he wants to be excluded from the party if Hillary wins the presidency!

We don't need Dems criticizing our frontrunner for the Democrats there are enough idiot republicans to handle that job.

[Windy]

17. OH DEAR GOD!!! DO YOU BELIEVE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING

DO YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT?

My God, we are in more trouble in this party that I thought.

What a sad commentary. If you don't get with the program you are what? A traitor?
A turncoat? There can be no desent?

Do you know who you sound like? Or should I say, what party it appears that you come from?

Please PLEASE don't tell me that we are going down that road on our side in this election.

I think your post should be publicized far and wide, because if this is the attitude of HRC supporter and her campaign, I think people would run away from her campaign a break neck speed.

I'm disgusted.

[Colobo]

18. Is that Tellurian or Democratsin08?

Both are on ignore for a reason.

[ProudDad]

62. Nope it's another one

Luckily, there aren't that many of them.

They're not numerous, just loud...

They only SEEM to pop up like weeds after a rain...

[quinnox]

26. You bet, I'm a Democratic party loyalist!

And even if Obama won or some other Democrat I believe you should say nice things about them if you are on media shows even if you don't agree with them if you are a Democrat.

We should present a united front and show everyone thast the Dems are great and they should vote for them.

I don't apologize for being a hard core Democrat, no not at all!

[mark414]

34. i don't know about you, but i'm the first to tell my good friends that they did something dumb

it's part of being their friend - honesty

[Windy]

36. Your idea of being a democratic loyalist has NOTHING to do with DEMOCRACY

You need to go back and take some basic civics classes. Your comments are offensive. Are we turning into another version of Free Republic here?

Do you have a problem with the first amendment? the constitution as a whole?

I sincerely hope that you are the exception, and not the rule for Hillary supporters.

[quinnox]

39. No problems with our constitiution

In fact I love it and love America. And I am speaking my mind here so I also love the first amendment. And maybe I am being a mite dramatic for fun in my past comments, but I do believe the basic jist of my comments.

[Forkboy]

72. For fun?

Uh huh.

[Forkboy]

71. But the attitude you just presented isn't a Democratic value...It's a repub attitude.

Democrats should welcome the right of others in their party to say what they believe, good or bad.

Disgusting, and a good example of why the party has sunk so in recent years in the eyes of so many.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

85. I'm tired of being told to fall into line.

...In democracy we vote for who we want to be our leaders. Let the best man or woman win the primaries. ...We can't let corporate owned "news" outlets tell us who the front runner is.

[Exultant Democracy]

32. Oh thats a little harsh, the party it sounds like is the Democratic party...NYC 19th century.

It would be cute if it wasn't so scary.

[ariesgem]

45. That style of governing reminds me of

If she wins, I truly hope it won't be more of the same.

[loudsue]

84. Unfortunately, it will be more of the same if she wins.

Corporate rule.

[merbex]

94. Well said n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

19. No, he can do that if she gets the nomination

Primaries allow him to be critical of some candidates and support others.

[Exultant Democracy]

22. Wow, now that is the good ol' Tammany Hall Spirit!

Kind of refreshing in an anachronistic way. I like the spunk, but the message just sucks. This is a democracy, people shouldn't just have to get in line.

[jefferson_dem]

25. Ridiculous and you know it.

Would you take that same inane position if Obama was the so-called "frontrunner"?

[quinnox]

41. Well, I'm not sure

I'll readily admit my bias for Hillary, but Webb should see she could very well be the nominee and take it into account in his remarks.

[TwilightGardener]

28. You can't be series. Of course he can and should criticize, if he disagrees

with ANYONE'S policies or votes. Why on God's earth would you want Webb to turn into a simpering sycophant and lose all credibility, just to be closer to the powerful? Don't we have enough of those in both parties?

[quinnox]

42. I guess I'm a passionate supporter of Hillary

Sometimes these incidents drive me to a quick angry response and I want to defend Hillary with a gusto!

[ProudDad]

63. What makes you a "passionate supporter" of hillary?

Which of her policies drives you to such heights of emotion?

[Ethelk2044]

49. If by Good Dem means to Lie, Go after money steal go against morals, He does not need it.

He did not get elected to lie for other dems. He got elected to support the people. To Do right for the people. We are tired of the stale old politics.

[rufus dog]

55. and what an assinine statement - I would expect this from a bushie

[jillan]

56. I didn't realize Hillary walked on water.

You better get used to it, and even if she becomes POTUS she is still going to get critized.

[tomp]

59. if hillary could possibly do that...

...she doesn't deserve to be president. you do not represent your candidate well.

[bvar22]

60. "wants to be a good Democrat..."

Is that like "being a good German" during the 30s?


"better wise up and say nice things about Hillary"
:WTF:

The Hillbots are marching, AND they are making a list!

[Forkboy]

73. This is exactly the type of shit we can expect from her and her camp.

[ProudDad]

61. You don't seem to grasp the concept of a primary election...

Do you need an explanation?

[Forkboy]

70. WOW

Be a good boy and just shut up and behave and you'll be rewarded.

Wow...that was a hell of an insight into you.

Love the Republi....Democratic spirit!!

[sundancekid]

81. well, but you see: Sen. Webb can ACTUALLY HANDLE the truth,

walk and chew gum = not to mention that he appears not to be too concerned with the ol boy/girl club mentality of yore ...
Let's make it a new day in democracy and not get scolded for refusing the party machine line and quid pro quos.

[Elidor]

83. Channeling the nazi party

You don't have any room to call anyone an idiot.

[rateyes]

90. Puke in a bucket. nt

[Canuckistanian]

93. It's "for his own good", right?

After all, who the fuck does he think he is?

[fadedrose]

96. Screw integrity . . .

Nobody polled me about who I wanted for my candidate. I doubt the veracity of the polls at this point. Wait till the primaries - that's the real polls.

Either Dems will vote Independent or Republican or join forces on the web and do a write-in vote for the next biggest vote getter should Hillary be victorious at the Dem convention...

I think we're sick of having presidents shoved down our throats, no small thanks to the SCOTUS and Bush.

[jgraz]

75. You'd think at this point it'd just be easier for her to just adopt a set of core beliefs

All this triangulation and shifting around has got to be tiring.

[rateyes]

91. One would think....

I'm so tired of fence-sitting candidates. Hillary has been on the fence so long, she has to pull splinters from her ass.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

6. Maybe he doesn't want to be VP on a ticket

with somebody he thinks has been trying to cover her butt with respect to her IWR vote.

But maybe poor, unenlightened Senator Webb hasn't yet discovered
that the sun shines out of Hillary's every pore
and birds and butterflies flutter around her
and the waters part before her
and the angels shrink back in awe at every word she utters
and she poops emeralds and diamonds.

Sigh.

[Ethelk2044]

47. Webb is happy not to get the VP Slot, if he has to Lie to get it.

[rufus dog]

54. what an arrogant statement

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

57. if you're not with her, then you hate america, eh?

christ, people - are we really going to let this dismissive attitude dominate the party again?
don't come crying to me when nader or someone else splits off 5-10% of your vote come november.

[Cha]

86. I can't believe YOU even

said that. How disingenuous can you be? Webb was being honest..not playing some fake political game like faken' hillary.

[rateyes]

89. Ppphhhhhhhhttttttttt, to that! He should be, as he is....

speaking the truth. I'm tired of political double-speak, of which Hillary is queen.

[Colobo]

2. Obama/Webb? That sounds great!

[Windy]

7. I'm beginning to agree with you.

the more I hear from Obama, the more I want to support him in the primaries. He is mature and rational and will be an asset to work diplomacy given his demeanor and intelligence. I have yet to make a decision but Obama and Edwards are leading the pack with me followed by Dodd. There is a lot of time left to make my decision, which will be reasoned and rational and not based upon who the media tells me I should support as a good and loyal democrat...

[Colobo]

15. Take your time, Windy. However,

www.barackobama.com

Take a look and get energized!

[The Traveler]

14. We could do a helluva lot worse

Both are fine men with backbone aplenty.

[ProudDad]

64. I don't trust "ex" republicans much

I don't think I trust Webb -- too far to the right for me...

[williesgirl]

9. Boy will she make him pay if she gets the nod and wins, but hurray for him! rec'd

[Windy]

12. I'm sure she will...

and the fact that she can is the crime of it.

[Frances]

16. Do you know Hillary personally?

How do you know she will make him pay? What support can you offer for that assertion?

I prefer to argue on the merits of a vote. If there is a good argument against Hillary, and Webb makes one, let DUers argue the merit of the case. Snide comments not based in fact weaken the very good points that Webb made.

[Windy]

30. Frances, that is my point and you can look at previous posts

I've made in this thread in response to comments from HRC supporters to see where I'm coming from.

A candidate should win on the merits. There voting record MUST be considered in light of the world we live in today. I don't want to be told that I must comply and vote for Mrs. clinton or agree with everything she says because the media has declared her the frontrunner.

I believe in speaking truth to power, whether its a democrat or a republican. I applaud Senator Webb for speaking the truth.

I agree with him that Hillary's vote in the IWR was a mistake in judgment and any argument to the contrary on her part to somehow shift blame for her mistake instead of admitting it and attempting to fix the fiasco that has occurred with the invasion of Iraq is not the quality I am personally looking for in a president at this time in history. Further, her vote on Kyl Lieberman confirms that she hasn't learned from her previous mistakes. The fact that she's signed on to Webb after that vote, to me, signifies that she felt an ill political wind blowing and knew that POLITICALLY, she needed to make a change. No a change on principal, but on politics. Her yea to Kyl/Lieberman came within one week of signing on the the Webb legislations. Senator Webb called her on it and was right to do so.

Off soapbox.

[Frances]

37. I find this post persuasive

because you gave good reasons for your position.

[Windy]

38. As you know, these threads can result in disconnected "conversations"

if you are not fast with your typing and ultimate posting.

[Hippo_Tron]

23. What will she do, not give him a job in her administration?

He wasn't getting one anyway. His senate seat is too valuable.

[TwilightGardener]

20. I saw that--I was delighted. I think Clinton needs him more than he

needs her--he is not, and will never be, her ass-kisser. And I was glad to hear him single out Obama (because of his speech today) as the only candidate who was demonstrating leadership on the war.

[Colobo]

24. Webb should endorse Barack.

[Hippo_Tron]

27. IMO if tonight is any indicator, that's coming soon

[TwilightGardener]

31. Indeed--that would be a huge boost for Obama.

[Windy]

40. I have read on other threads here that Russ Feingold will also endorse Obama

Having both Webb and Feingold endorse him would be wonderful for his campaign.

[TwilightGardener]

44. Yep--two guys who are independent thinkers and stand by their principles--

I wouldn't be surprised if they both endorsed Obama--that's the sort of people he seems to attract.

[papau]

21. ?when did a non-binding resolution have the force of law? - Clinton said Webb was right before

the two Lieberman paragraphs were taken out as did 2 dozen other Dems - and that he was wrong after those paragraphs were removed.

But we know that Bush requires nothing to go to war - and stopping this resolution would not stop him if that is his course.

It will be interesting to see if Clinton/Webb resolution gets passed.

[Windy]

43. You need to read the amendment.

the alleged removal of two paragraphs may have softened the language, but the loopholes still exist. As Webb said, the mere fact that Kyl/Lieberman labels the Iranian Revolutionary Guard a terrorist organization gives Bush a way to attack them using the earlier IWR. Further the resolution states that the US can use its miltary power to attack the iranian interlopers so to speak from inside iraq. Certainly, firing missles into iran from a base inside iraq at strategic targets fits within the language of the resolution. Mrs. Clinton knows this...she is a very experienced attorney and can read between the lines.

[papau]

52. I agree on both your points as to what remained in the resolution - but I do not agree it had

any real meaning - or is there no distinction between "binding" and "non-binding" resolutions?

As to "hot pursuit" across borders, I do not like it without the other countries agreement - but it is not uncommon - Turkey uses the idea now to justify its troops being amongst the Kurds in Iraq. This resolution does not endorse "hot pursuit". It does endorse firing across the border, as you noted - not quite am endorsement of war.

And I come back to the fact it was "non-binding".

[Windy]

50. not to split hairs here, but I believe it was Webb's legislation

Clinton simply agreed to support it.

Please don't give credit to HRC for something Webb worked his arse off to put together.

[papau]

53. True - poor shorthand on my part. Webb has earned the cudos for this idea .

[NCarolinawoman]

29. Okay, I don't remember him actually using the word "cover".

His words were much more diplomatic. I wish I could remember. I may have to go to the transcript.

It was something along the lines of Hillary wanting to "correct her mistake".

[TwilightGardener]

35. "Counter" her mistake is what I heard.

[illinoisprogressive]

33. Webb did not look too thrilled with her highness

[Colobo]

46. Good, because I'm not as well.

[Lucinda]

48. Do you have a link to vid or a transcript?

TIA

[Windy]

51. Watch it yourself on the Hardball repeat tonight

I assume harball posts its transcripts... It could also show up on Youtube or Crooks and Liars... if it does, I'll certainly post it.

[superkia]

58. And they continue to free up money for the current war.

What is wrong with these people, do they not care about what the people want or is it the people don't really care about the soldiers in Iraq? I cant believe we continue to fund this war.

The "no" votes in the House, all cast by anti-war members, came from one Republican, Ron Paul of Texas, and 13 Democrats: Oregon's Earl Blumenauer, Missouri's William Clay, Minnesota's Keith Ellison, California's Bob Filner, Massachusetts' Barney Frank, New York's Maurice Hinchey, Ohio's Dennis Kucinich, Washington's Jim McDermott, New Jersey's Donald Payne, California's Barbara Lee, Maxine Waters, Diane Watson and Lynn Woolsey.

That means that, of the 2008 presidential candidates, only Republican Paul and Democrat Kucinich voted against giving the Bush administration a dramatic -- if not particularly well publicized -- infusion of new money for the war.

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat?pid=237751



I am amazed that there hasn't been any outrage here on DU about this. Have we truly given up and will just vote for the popular candidate even if they will continue the innocent deaths?

[ProudDad]

66. I'm outrageed by Dog!!!!

And I'm getting pretty fucking sick and tired of the fucking Dems putting the Illegal occupation they've adopted on my grandson's credit card...

Lousy cowards!!!!

[Bo Bike]

67. What else can they do?

There hands are tied without the votes to override a veto.

[superkia]

68. They should have stopped funding a long time ago.

I think most of them want this war to continue, why else did they all look at the evidence in 2002 and only Dennis Kucinich voted no and said it was about oil. What was there reason for voting yes back then and why did they all continue to fund it. Kucinich is the only one that has voted no, the rest refuse to stand up and represent the people and stop it. Last Thursday, only Kucinich and Ron Paul voted on it out of the 2008 candidates, the rest didn't even bother to vote and make a stand to show Americans where they really stand on the issue.

[Bo Bike]

69. Dems don’t have the vote's to override a veto.

If you don’t have the votes to override a veto, the only other choice is de-funding the military while their are troops in a war zone. You are right the majority of Americans do want an end to the war, however what you don’t realize is that they what an end to the war through a responsible draw down with a timetable. Yanking the troops out is not palatable for the majority of Americans, if you de-fund the military that’s exactly what will happen. As long as the republicans move lock stock and barrel with W their hands are tied.

[superkia]

92. Im pretty sure they have already said they have enough money...

available to bring the troops home in a responsible manner, they don't fight the war on a daily basis hoping they will have funds for tomorrow. If they were serious about ending the war, they would have looked into impeachment to get the psychos out of power. They are not serious about ending the war, there is too much money being thrown around. Only Dennis Kucinich looked at the evidence in 2002 and said the war was about oil and voted no. Everyone else gave speeches sounding like Bush and Cheney for a reason, they wanted this war.

[Bo Bike]

97. Will W use that money to bring the troops home

in a responsible manner? His track record is clear. No. What Kucinich is saying about money in the pipeline sounds good but is not reality. Being in government you would think that he knows how it works. If you do not pass a war appropriation bill W will just draw funds from the D.O.D. general budget for the war, and force democrats to not appropriate the D.O.D. If you do not appropriate the D.O.D., W will be forced to pull the troops out immediately which is not palatable for the majority of Americans. De-funding the entire military while there are troops in a war zone is unwise for many reasons including safety. If Kucinich is relying on W to be responsible and use the money in the pipeline to pull the troops out he is in dreamland. The fact that Kucinich has voted no is irrelevant. W will force the dems to de-fund the entire military, which will not fly with the American people.

[superkia]

98. So I guess the wars will continue forever then. Our country has to be...

one of the worst on the planet. A place that was so far ahead and is now completely coming apart at the seams, it feels like we are going backwards and eventually we will look like Burmha. KBR already has a contract to build multiple detention camps that are supposed hold up to 5000 people, Blackwater has a $15 billion dollar contract to fight the so called war on drugs which I would guess is for other reasons, the president can call for martial law if something happens like the dollar crashing and hurting the economy and they can jail any of us without a trial if they say we are a terrorist against the system.

It is crazy to me that we are probably about to elect a candidate who hasn't even stood up against some of these things, why would they not fight it? Maybe they like the power and control?

Good luck to us all!

[zulchzulu]

65. Hand my man Webb a manly high-five!

I don't think someone is laughing now...

[Nutmegger]

74. Look at the exploding heads!!!

Go Webb, go!

Go! Go! Go! Go! Go! Go!

:kick::thumbsup:

[Eurobabe]

76. Hmm, sounds like the Queen from Alice in Wonderland is coming n/t

[ShortnFiery]

77. That's OUR Senator! Jim Webb (D-VA)

:patriot: :applause:

[Frances]

79. Thanks for helping elect Webb

nt

[ShortnFiery]

82. You're welcome. Webb's perspectives sure beats the hell out of dumb-a** Allen's! :-)

:hi:

[SaveElmer]

80. Webb is my Senator and I am glad he is there...

I think he is wrong in his assessment of Hillary's position and I think he is wrong on Kyl-Lieberman...but respect his opinion

I also think the criticism as described in this thread is not accurate...it was not harsh, and he had some positive things to say about her...

[Catherine Vincent]

87. That's not surprising.

Especially after some of what he said about President Clinton.

[Maribelle]

88. Hillary remains kind to Webb

Of course.