How much does USAPATRIOT Act matter -

[Ficus]

and it's not the Patriot Act - its the USAPATRIOT Act. It's a big long acronym that I don't want to re-type here.

[genius]

1. Unless you vote for Kucinich or Sharpton, you don't have a choice

Every senator but Feingold voted for it but many have buyer's remorse. Edwards and Kerry have both attacked Ashcroft's use of U.S.A.-PATRIOT. Check to see who will come on board with Kucinich's Benjamin Franklin True Patriot Act, the bill that will repeal it.

[corporatewhore]

2. We could get a lotta of old school conservatives to join if nominee was an

antipatriot act candidate

[blondeatlast]

11. So true. Barry Goldwater has got to be spinning in his grave. nt

[FloridaPat]

3. I would be more interested in seeing if they plan on voting to

continue it. Seems the republicans snuck in all the bad stuff overnight before the vote and wouldn't let anyone read it before the vote. Why they aren't in jail I'll never know.

[blondeatlast]

12. That was the way I understood it. We need to focus on repealing

most of it (if not all); because we are stuck with it now.

[Ficus]

4. thank you for your responses

[Ficus]

5. kick

please vote. Just trying to gauge our opinions here on DU.

[Ficus]

6. kick

trying to get more people to vote....thanks

[The Magistrate]

8. It Is No Lirmus Test To Me, Sir

As it received ninety-nine votes in the Senate, it would be damned difficult to find major figures opposed.

Current criticism of its use, and opposition to its un-revised renewal, are more important considerations. It is worth opposing the thing, and there is a potential to draw some of libertarian stripe into our camp by doing so.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[rhite5]

7. It's a tough up or down vote

The P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act is a very important consideration for me.

But under the circumstances I can't say I would NEVER vote for someone who voted YEA for its passage.

From the beginning of this Primary Season, Kucinich was the only candidate who had voted NO to the Act. In fact, he did more than that. He rallied 67 other congressmen/women to vote NO also.

All candidates that were Senators of course had voted YEA, most did so (supposedly) without any clear understanding of what was in it. That includes Lieberman and Graham who are out now and of course it includes both Kerry and Edwards. And in the House, it includes Gephardt, who is also out.

Dean and Sharpton were the outsiders. Who knows how they would have voted had they been in the Congress or Senate?

Of course Kucinich is my candidate anyway, so I don't have a problem until November, and only if DK is not the candidate.

[Ficus]

10. a reason I supported dennis

From the beginning of this Primary Season, Kucinich was the only candidate who had voted NO to the Act. In fact, he did more than that. He rallied 67 other congressmen/women to vote NO also.

since most people who are going to vote have, I'll just say that it's not a litmus test for me. I greatly opposed it from the day I read about it in the paper in fall 2001, but besides opposing it, Dennis showed leadership in the manner you stated above.

[Monte Carlo]

9. It seems like a futile test at this point.

Saying it straight, one of Kerry and Edwards is going to win the nomination. Both of them voted for it. It would seem to me that unless you are willing to disregard the party entirely come election day, you just have to say FUBAR and move on. No hard feelings, but that's the way it is.

[rucky]

13. It mattered when the primary was open.

doesn't matter now, I suppose.

we're making a mistake, but (insert hollow acronym here).

[GreenArrow]

14. pro patriot act candidates got 74 % of the vote

in Wisconsin, so there, at least, I guess most people could care less.

[PurityOfEssence]

15. Wellstone voted for the Patriot Act, by the way...

Only the splendid Russ Feingold voted against it in the Senate.

Purists are a danger to mankind. Saying so doesn't make one corrupt or complacent; much of the bile leveled against such things stems from narcissism.

On the other hand, it was a disgusting chapter in our history, and it shows the perils of politics in stark relief.

[Ficus]

16. thank you I am about to make that point.

!

[Guaranteed]

17. It's certainly a negative...because I value the Bill of Rights

above most everything but my family.

However, it was passed while the nation was still in a state of shock. It's hard to hold it against anyone.

But, if someone votes for the Victory Act, and in fact if they don't actively campaign for repealing the Patriot Act (most of it, at least), they probably will not get my vote.

[robbedvoter]

18. Choice is: the guy who wrote it vs the guy who only voted for it

In November I'll take the second.
If I see Clark on the ballot, I vote for him.
If I see Bush on the ballot, I vote against him.
Simple.

[robbedvoter]

19. Edwards is quite proud os writing it - included this in campaign lit

Patriot Act is being abused by the Attorney General
Q: The PATRIOT Act is two years old. There has been criticism of John Ashcroft for enforcement of legislation you authored. Shouldn't those who wrote the legislation take responsibility?
EDWARDS: There are provisions, which get no attention, which did good things. The reason we need changes is because it gave too much discretion to an attorney general who does not deserve it. The attorney general told us that he would not abuse his discretion. He has abused his discretion. We know that now.
Source: Democratic Presidential 2004 Primary Debate in Detroit Oct 27, 2003
http://www.issues2000.org/2004/John_Edwards_Civil_Rights.htm

[arwalden]

20. One-Issue Voters (Or NON Voters As The Case May Be) Simply Amaze Me.

The whiny, petty, moaning, groaning, me-me-me, selfish, reckless, vengeful, party-punishing, self-righteous, sanctimonious, stubborn, myopic, message-sending, tunnel vision, one-track linear thinking process is truly a sight to behold.

It's not a pretty sight... just something to look at shake my head in disbelief that anyone would fail to see the bigger picture of what's at stake and that they would choose to take the foolish path (which is certain to fail) instead of choosing the smart path in order to return some amount of control to our party and actually get IN the game.

In their quest for idealogical purity they neglect to see what's best for the country instead of for their own self-gratification. They refuse to play the game wisely and make strategic compromises--accepting small victories, inching forward, holding ground. Instead they choose choose to make stubborn, vain, and politically impotent moves that have absolutely NO RELATION to the reality of today's national political climate. They clearly live in a vacuum or other fool's paradise alternate reality.

It's truly disgusting.

-- Allen


P.S. Interesting poll, Ficus. Thanks for posting it and asking the question.

[Ficus]

21. this is why

look here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=362100

[GreenArrow]

22. resistance is futile

you will be assimilated.

[arwalden]

23. LOL --- That sounds about right.

This "thinking for one's self" concept is getting old. I guess that's why so many folks prefer to let Rush do their thinking for them.

-- Allen