Clinton Opens 33 Point Lead Over Obama, Garners 53% of Democratic Vote!

[wyldwolf]

Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton has consolidated her place as the front-runner in the contest for the Democratic presidential nomination, outpacing her main rivals in fundraising in the most recent quarter and widening her lead in a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

For the first time, Clinton (N.Y.) is drawing support from a majority of Democrats -- and has opened up a lead of 33 percentage points over Sen. Barack Obama (Ill.). Her popularity, the poll suggests, is being driven by her strength on key issues and a growing perception among voters that she would best represent change.

... the Post-ABC News poll suggests that there is more than name recognition at work.

Despite rivals' efforts to portray her as too polarizing to win the general election, a clear majority of those surveyed, 57 percent, said Clinton is the Democratic candidate with the best chance on Nov. 4, 2008. The percentage saying Clinton has the best shot at winning is up 14 points since June. By contrast, 20 percent think Edwards is most electable and 16 percent think Obama is, numbers that represent a huge blow to the "electability" argument rivals have sought to use against her.

One of the central claims of Obama's campaign is that he is best suited to lower partisan tensions in Washington. But, in this poll, more see Clinton as best able to reduce partisanship.

more...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/02/AR2007100202365.html?hpid=topnews

[jefferson_dem]

1. Wow.

Hillary's numbers are looking really good.

Must. Fight. Inevitability. Mindset. Resistance. Not. Futile.

[ericgtr]

59. Keep fighting the good fight buddy!

Those are some pretty huge numbers. Where's Gore?!

[opihimoimoi]

2. I have to agree she is the best among the group....any of which would win the election should they

get the nom....

[wyldwolf]

7. we agree there

[Alamom]

3. Thanks. nm

[durrrty libby]

4. Very nice. Keep it up Hillary

[Submariner]

5. We will regret this if she is elected

She will stay in Iraq when the repukes hammer her as soft on terrorism. She will cave to their taunts to prove she is "tough".

She will give Dubya his out so he can say the Dems "lost" the Iraq war. If she can't commit to a massive drawdown in the days following when she takes office, to show the world that the Iraq folly was a Bush screwup, and not the nations screwup, then she should not be elected by us.

I am sick and tired of her republican-lite BS.

[wyldwolf]

6. Will you use you Crystal Ball and tell me the traffic conditions on GA 400?

[Submariner]

23. I didn't need a crystal ball to see her vote YAY for the "sense of

the senate" resolution BS to give Dubya the leverage to attack Iran under what will be false pretenses just like Iraq. She was raised a repub and it's in her DNA to be repub-lite middle of the roader rather than a true progressive.

[wyldwolf]

26. yet she still leads in the polls, which is what this thread is about.

[Submariner]

29. You're correct, she does lead in the polls

I'm one of the left over liberals from the '60s that helped start the Vietnam Veterans Against the War organization at UMASS Amherst. It seems that too many of the liberals of yester-year are playing it safe today with the middle of the roaders. I just don't like the conservative influence that Hillary brings to the Dem party that should be much more liberal than it is for the sake of the nation and it's environment.

[Carrieyazel]

62. We'll regret it when she loses to the Repuke candidate in the general

She won't make a good president, I agree. But when we get another Repuke in there, it won't make a difference.

[wyldwolf]

63. Except she won't lose.

[ProudDad]

64. Yep, if you liked NAFTA

you'll love the shit this corporate tool is prepared to dump on us...

Oh, and don't bother holding your breath waiting for Health Care for the 47 MILLION of us who are uninsured or the other 80 MILLION underinsured...hillary's just going to shove another pile of money at the health insurance mafia and big pharma and leave us out in the cold -- again -- just as she did 14 years ago...

[MethuenProgressive]

8. "20 % think Edwards is most electable and 16 % think Obama is"

(quote shortened in sub line to fit space)
By contrast, 20 percent think Edwards is most electable and 16 percent think Obama is, numbers that represent a huge blow to the "electability" argument rivals have sought to use against her.
Another meme goes out the window.
:kick:

[The Backlash Cometh]

9. So now you see what they're really polling for. Who will reduce partisanship.

Anyone want to deconstruct the flaw in that push poll?

[wyldwolf]

10. that was one question asked among several. How is it a push poll?

[The Backlash Cometh]

13. They're not even disguising the artifice of those numbers.

Look at this paragraph:

"The new numbers come on the heels of an aggressive push by Clinton to dominate the political landscape. She unveiled her health-care proposal and then appeared on all five Sunday news shows on the same day -- all while her husband, former president Bill Clinton, went on tour to promote a new book. Within the past month, at least one Clinton has appeared on television virtually every day, increasing the campaign's exposure among millions of Americans."

Now, go back and watch the Jon Stewart - Chris Matthew's interview. I know we support Jon for knocking down Matthews, but listen to what Matthews has to say. He is trying to tell you what's behind the phoniness of Washtingon and, especially, of Hillary Clinton. I wish Stewart had allowed him to finish some of his sentences, because Matthew's book holds the key to making Hillary Clinton transparent.

I'm tired of being treated by so-called Democrats who "manage" us like we're diabetes. If we're diabetes to the party, they're a malignant tumor.

[wyldwolf]

19. So because Clinton has run an effective and visible campaign, these numbers are skewed?

:rofl:

[The Backlash Cometh]

34. Yes, she's running an effective and visible campaign...

...in a very political, calculating way. But they're doing one thing, and the article is taking liberties at concluding quite a different thing.

First, how can they claim that the Clintons aren't using exposure to bump up those numbers? The paragraph clearly states that's exactly what they're doing. Even Bill Clinton is making face time on the news for that very reason. Then, if it's obvious they made a push to get face time on the news, how can the article then conclude that name recognition isn't behind the poll numbers? It's a glaring contradiction.

I would imagine that the Clintons, particularly Hillary, is a purebred example of how phoniness will help you climb up the ladder of success in America. The question where we differ, is, is aptitude for phoniness the best quality for an American leader, right now?

[wyldwolf]

36. "...in a very political, calculating way." Which is why it's called "politics."

First, how can they claim that the Clintons aren't using exposure to bump up those numbers? he paragraph clearly states that's exactly what they're doing.

So? :shrug:

[The Backlash Cometh]

39. Just pointing out the glaring contradiction.

Yes, the numbers are the result of political calculation, and so is the conclusion that the poll numbers are not the result of name recognition. Of course it is. It's name recognition being pushed by pulling all the strings and calling in all the favors that the name brings.

[wyldwolf]

42. There is no "glaring contradiction" except, perhaps, how politics work and how you thought they did.

[The Backlash Cometh]

44. It is a glaring contradiction. You've just drank the Washington beltway koolaid.

The rest of us are trying to resist the brainwashing.

[wyldwolf]

49. No it isn't. You've just drank the KOS koolaid.

[The Backlash Cometh]

50. That's where you're terribly wrong. I don't even go to their webpage,

unless it's linked from DU and/or they're making news. I'm just one of the 60% of Americans who lived outside the Bush-Clinton dynasties. I became politically aware during the Kennedy years, and I know how much better things can be. I also have lived through the terrible mistakes that both liberal and conservatives have made in the last forty plus years. And I think we'll be making them again, with Hillary.

[wyldwolf]

51. "KOS" has become a generic term for "netroots mentality."

[The Backlash Cometh]

52. You're framing like a right-winger.

[wyldwolf]

53. you just ran out of ammo

[The Backlash Cometh]

54. On the contrary. Everybody is sick of Washington D.C. politics and you just confirmed

that Hillary plays that game. When I pointed that out to you, you played right out of the right-wing/DLC playbook by calling me a liberal. That's what's behind that KOS label of yours. You framed me as a liberal, to try to marginalize me, the way conservatives have been doing since the 90s.

How do you like having that in common with Rush Limbaugh? Who do you think the DLC is palling with so they come across as less partisan? Who actually prides themself in reaching out across the aisle, even if it means undermining every program that makes a person a Democrat?

[wyldwolf]

57. No proof to what you just wrote.

[The Backlash Cometh]

58. Run out of an argument? You know I'm correct.That's what "netroot mentality"

suggests. A liberal orientation. And it would be off the mark, considering that the right-wingers were here, at least ten years before we were.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wyldwolf]

85. There is no evidence to what you wrote.

[robinlynne]

72. Interesting BBC article today saying that all the "hillary is winning" info is coming straight

from the republicans. that it is their strategy. I dont believe these polls at all. I know of exactly ONE person who likes hillary for pres among the hundreds of people I know.

[depakid]

11. Sometimes, all one can do is laugh

Anyone who believes those numbers is fool. I mean, really.

How stupid does the Post think people are?

[oasis]

55. You have 8 more years to laugh at us fools.

:rofl:

[Apollo11]

12. She ain't garnered any votes yet. Not a single one.

There are still 15 weeks to go until the Iowa caucuses.

Meanwhile, the people of Iowa are watching Obama's new ad:
http://iowa.barackobama.com/whatif

[William769]

14. Who has?

[Apollo11]

16. Did you even read the subject of the original post?

Or are you the child that "No Child Left Behind" left behind? :eyes:

[William769]

17. So you are avoiding the question then?

[Apollo11]

18. hahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha hahahaha

Sorry about all the cackling.

What was the question again? :eyes:

[William769]

20. You said she hasn't garnered any votes yet. I asked who has.

I'm glad you love laughing at yourself, because thats what everyone else is doing reading your posts.

[wyldwolf]

21. Clearly Apollo11 is confusing "points" with "votes."

[William769]

22. At least one thing he is good for is keeping your post kicked for all to see.

:rofl:

[Apollo11]

25. Yeah right - I am confused

Because according to the OP Hillary "garners 53% of Democratic Vote" before a single person has voted.

It's no wonder I never graduated from elementary school ...

:sarcasm:

[durrrty libby]

33. " I am confused" Well that is quite obvious.

Exhibit A "It's no wonder I never graduated from elementary school"

okie dokie:rofl:

[durrrty libby]

24. The sweet little ads. All fluff no stuff. Hold hands sing Kumbaya

[Apollo11]

27. In 15 weeks we will find out who wins the Iowa caucuses

And then we can discuss which candidate ran a "losing campaign".

[wyldwolf]

31. does that mean we won't hear from you until then?

[Apollo11]

32. No - but you can dream!

B-)

[wyldwolf]

37. yes I can.

[William769]

15. Wow, just wow!

K&R!

[Dawgs]

28. How is it not name recognition when a majority think she has the best judgement on Iraq.

Either people are dumb or they're not paying attention; either way it's name recognition.

[wyldwolf]

30. maybe because people have heard all the candidates and think Clinton sounds best on Iraq

:shrug: Ya think? Or do you think Dawgs is smarter than the average bear?

[killbotfactory]

66. HAHAHAHHAhahahahahah

Good one

[wyldwolf]

68. but true, nevertheless.

[yodermon]

35. Ladies and Gentelment, your next War President! n/t

[SaveElmer]

38. Astonishing numbers...thank God she is a Democrat...

I'd hate to be on the other side having to face someone this formidable. At this point it would be easy to say that the master politician in the Clinton family is not Bill apparently...but Hillary!

[durrrty libby]

48. Indeed, the republicans would kill for #'s like she has

[LWolf]

40. You'd think the starting gates had actually opened,

and that you could see them pounding down the track!

Of course, no gates have opened yet, and it will be another several months before the first one does, and another 8 months before the last.

It's really hard to tell where the horse is in the pack when they're still loading into the starting gate.

[William769]

43. Thats why there is something called a handicapping

[LWolf]

45. "Something called a handicapping," lol.

Anyone who's spent any time at the races knows that the favorite will lose more often than win. :D

They've also experienced placing the "safer" bet only to see the longshot win. :D :D :D

I like this metaphor more and more.

[William769]

46. Me too!

I have won lots of money handicapping.

[JPZenger]

41. We Need a Competitive Primary to get Free Media

I am still undecided. However, in any case, the Dems NEED a primary that continues to be competitive. That is because: 1) it provides much free media attention to Dem views, and 2) it toughens up the candidate who ends up getting the nomination.

If we would have a coronation ceremony for Hillary now, her and her staff would not get the experience that comes from a competitive primary. The candidate builds their skills and their organization through tough questioning and competition.

If the Dems would pick their nominee too early, then all of the free media attention would shift to the Republican horserace, and the Dems would be ignored for months.

[sampsonblk]

47. Clinton doesn't need to be toughened up

She's been here before. Twice.

At this point, I am fine with having the attention devoted to the GOP because they are imploding. In our party, we aren't fighting over any big ideas (unfortunately). Its just a bunch of bickering back and forth. There hasn't been one big idea debated in this campaign so far. And there probably won't be.

Fo the GOP, they have a lot of big stuff to deal with. And I want it all on the front page.

[JPZenger]

56. She didn't have a tough Senate election

There is a difference between being First Lady and actually having to answer tough questions hundreds of times a day in a Presidential race. She didn't have a tough Senate election. The more primary experience for Hillary, the better.

[sampsonblk]

60. She went on 60 minutes in 1992 with her husband...

...after the Flowers scandal broke. Her two runs with Bill were more than enough preparation for this battle. Ever see her sweat? She's the only one who's seen it all before. She's seen all the slime we can imagine. Even jokes about Chelsea, which were below the belt.

[ShortnFiery]

80. HRC also went back in 1996 and TRASHED Flowers. Is this the morality we want in Our WH?!?

Hey, if Bill wants to chase skirt, then be honest and claim to have "an open marriage." Instead HRC helps her husband and his operatives intimidate the women he beds.

Both Clintons would qualify as moderate republicans in the 1970s. How about we encourage them to switch parties? :grr:

You want to talk tough and feminist? Ask yourself "How many women's lives have been destroyed by Bill Clintons numerous extra-marital affairs?"

HRC's no feminist but an enabler of a man who can't control is sexual urges. :(

[sampsonblk]

84. Bill Clinton's affairs?

So that's what its really about?

I thought we were talking about how seasoned and experienced she is.

He shouldn't have done Monica. That doesn't make Hillary less prepared to win this campaign and be a good (and first woman) president.

Her inauguration is going to instantly change the world.

[mmonk]

65. What is the wording in this poll and who do they poll?

I never get polled.

[rinsd]

67. Some answers

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/postpoll_100107.html

The Post-ABC poll was conducted by telephone Sept. 27 to 30, among a national random sample of 1,114 adults, including interviews with 592 self-identified Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents. The margin of sampling error for the Democratic sample is plus or minus four percentage points.

[avrdream]

69. Thanks for the information, wyld.

Hillary is looking strong these days.

[Colobo]

70. IT'S OVER!!! IN OCTOBER 2ND!!!! WAAAAAAAAH!!!

:sarcasm:

[calteacherguy]

75. Sorry dude, but honestly it essentially is.

Obama can't win unless he's perceived as the candidate of change (minimum requirement). Hillary is seen by most as the candidate who can most effectively bring change.

So, 99% probability the sarcasm is unwarranted. Sorry.

[ShortnFiery]

81. Yes, next thing we know, The Political Ruling Elites will DENY US the Primaries.

After all, the M$M with their *error-proof* polling claims that HRC is the best thing since sliced bread. :eyes:

[Clintonista2]

87. Wow, a shortnfiery post without use of the word "corporate"!

You just couldn't resist the use of "elites" and "M$M" though...

[ChiciB1]

71. So It's ALL OVER... I'm Not Needed & I'm Outta Here! n/t

[kad7777]

73. HILLARY/ PRESIDENT!!! WOOOHOOO!!!!!!!!!!

... have another martini with your corporate buddies....can't wait for the first scandal!!
Love this country!! AND the people who pick our leaders. I'm proud!! WWWOOOO-HHOOOO!!!
I'm sure when Hillary takes office, the people of this country will be so happy, everyone will be hugging each other in the streets, the heavens will open up, and little fairies from heaven will come down and sprinkle love dust on all the people of the world.
WWWOOOO-HHOOOOO!!!!!

[calteacherguy]

74. Experience. Electibility. Change. She has it all. K&R. nt

[Carrieyazel]

76. This poll is more worthless than the Fox News poll.

I don't believe it for a minute. She voted for war, rushed to war, promoted the war, supported the war for years, and only turned against it after it was safe to come out of the woods. She is an awful national candidate who will get beat by Ghouliani of all people. If Democrats aren't savvy enough to realize this, we'd better get ready for more Repuke control of the White House.

[Lucinda]

77. This thread made my head hurt.

Thanks for the link. Thats some big numbers! :thumbsup:

[smalll]

78. This is now a three tier race-

First tier, Hillary.
Second tier, Obama and Edwards.
Third tier, all the rest.

[MannyGoldstein]

79. Howard Dean Now Clear Democratic Leader in National Poll

ROCHESTER, N.Y., Dec. 22 /PRNewswire/ -- Howard Dean has established a
strong national lead over all other candidates for the Democratic candidates.
While the selection of the Democratic candidate will depend on the Iowa
caucuses and primary elections in New Hampshire and many other states, the
former Vermont governor has pulled ahead of all other candidates among
Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents nationwide.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/12-22-2003/0002079944&EDATE=

[madrchsod]

82. "mr peabody lets go back to dec 22...."

[SaveElmer]

83. Actually John...it's a 40 point lead over you!!!...nt

[themaguffin]

86. She hasn't garnored VOTES yet, nobody has