ABC News: Clinton Won't Sign Anti-Torture Pledge (Updated: She signed it)

[jsamuel]

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/10/clinton-wont-si.html

ABC News' Rick Klein Reports: Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton has declined to sign an anti-torture pledge circulated by a liberal organization, making her the only Democratic candidate for president to withhold her endorsement of a blanket statement condemning torture.

The anti-torture pledge, initiated by the American Freedom Campaign -- a group founded by a coalition of civil-liberties groups and liberal activists -- commits the candidates to disavowing some of the controversial tactics employed by the Bush administration.

"We are Americans, and in our America we do not torture, we do not imprison people without charge or legal remedy, we do not tap people's phones and emails without a court order, and above all we do not give any President unchecked power," the statement reads. "I pledge to fight to protect and defend the Constitution from assault by any President."

The freedom campaign first sent letters to the presidential candidates in August, asking for their pledges. With Sen. Barack Obama's commitment on Tuesday, all of the Democratic candidates except for Clinton have signed off on the commitment.

...

Update: She signed it soon after ABC reported it.

[WCGreen]

1. What the fuck is wrong with her....

[Hepburn]

3. Ditto....

...why the hell would someone NOT sign an anti-torture statement????

[Morereason]

101. Please correct your title. She has NOT signed!!

The "correction" is incorrect. She is writing a "response"...

[Freddie Stubbs]

27. She is already running a general election campaign

[w4rma]

85. And the center supports torture? No. (nt)

[movonne]

34. It looks like that if she becomes president she plans on becoming

the new war and torture president..business as usual...

[Tellurian]

56. The headline in the link reads: Clinton Signs Anti-Torture Pledge

[Morereason]

103. Read it again... It has changed - She has not signed, nor even "endorsed" as it suggests

[Tellurian]

105. Have you read it YET?

[waiting for hope]

2. Not committing to anything -

Yep - par for the course!

[killbotfactory]

4. Pretty sad

Is she afraid condemning torture will make her look weak?

[rinsd]

5. Sloppy reporting. She has not declined to sign it.

She just has yet to sign it.

With Obama the other only remaining Dem holdout doing so Tuesday I imagine she will sign it soon.

[still_one]

12. Maybe sloppy, maybe not. Did you read the link from the OP? She is all over the board on this /nt

[rinsd]

17. The author is trying to make a story.

A flip flop story with the intrigue of interfamilial squabbling...sound familiar?

[still_one]

21. I'll bet you a cup of coffee she won't sign it /nt

[Stand and Fight]

51. Looks like you owe someone a cup of coffee. Go back to the link. n/t

[still_one]

99. Glad to lose the bet /nt

[mikelgb]

22. what are Hillary's qualities that you think she may need improvement on?

[still_one]

28. hmmmmmmmm, How about her positions on the war to start with /nt

[rinsd]

33. Signing this pledge would be a good start.

[still_one]

38. Very Good, I will be watching to see if she does the right thing /nt

[rinsd]

75. Thankfully she has.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3579188&mesg_id=3579188

[still_one]

88. believe it or not I am glad. /nt

[Tellurian]

61. The headline in the link says: "Clinton Signs Anti-Torture Pledge"

doesn't anyone read the stuff that gets posted here?

[geek tragedy]

25. Hillary wants the power to torture people.

Such people should not be President.

[LittleClarkie]

13. Was she waiting to see if he'd sign?

Why would it matter when he signed it as related to her signing it?

[rinsd]

19. Maybe.

I was just referencing the political reality.

I wish she had signed it already.

[gateley]

15. I can understand Obama holding out 'til the end -- that seems to be his MO

these days. But why Hillary? My sense of her is that she votes what she thinks is best regardless of which way the wind is blowing.

[Tellurian]

69. The headline in the link says: "Clinton Signs Anti-Torture Pledge"

[movonne]

40. Well that's real brave of her...how do we know that she will keep

her word if she becomes president...

[movonne]

48. Yes I think that is real brave of her....and if she don't sign, what will

you say then...no matter what she does hillary supporters find some way to make it right...It kind of reminds me of the way the bush lovers do...

[rodeodance]

84. This blogger is a Headline grabber.

[AdHocSolver]

87. Clinton has to run "torture: is it a good policy or not?" by a couple of focus groups, first.

This demonstrates once again that Hillary Clinton possesses no guiding principles that voters can judge her by. She sees what kind of reaction other candidates get from their policy statements and then comes out with a similar policy statement of another candidate that got good reviews. She merely plagiarizes what other candidates proposed as if she were the first to think of it.

This demonstrates that Hillary Clinton is not a leader, but merely a copycat politician who literally steals the positions of other candidates to coopt them. A case in point is her health care proposal. John Edwards came out with his health care proposal several months ago (February, IIRC). Obama came out with his health care proposal a while ago. Clinton came out with her health care proposal "Johnny-come-lately" with much fanfare, as if it were unique and superior. However, as many people here on DU have pointed out, Clinton's proposal is merely a watered down version of previous proposals that appears to aid the corporations more than the people.

I don't see Clinton as being a bold leader who has the will to take on the corporate powers that be. If she plays games with her own constituency, why assume she would take on the corporate powers on our behalf? I see a disconnect between Clinton's supporters' assessment of her candidacy and the reality of her campaign.

[gateley]

6. What are her reasons? Anybody know? nt

[geek tragedy]

14. She wants the authority to torture people.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2006/10/16/2006-10-16_mccain_team_mocks_hil_torture_loophole.html

"Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.) said she supports legalizing the torture of a captured terror suspect who knows about "an imminent threat to millions of Americans" - making an exception to her opposition to torture and marking a key difference from her possible rival for the White House, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.). "If we're going to be preparing for the kind of improbable but possible eventuality, then it has to be done within the rule of law," Clinton said in a phone interview Friday, expanding on comments to the Daily News Editorial Board. She said the "ticking time bomb" scenario represents a narrow exception to her opposition to torture as morally wrong, ineffective and dangerous to American soldiers. "In the event we were ever confronted with having to interrogate a detainee with knowledge of an imminent threat to millions of Americans, then the decision to depart from standard international practices must be made by the President, and the President must be held accountable," she said. "That very, very narrow exception within very, very limited circumstances is better than blasting a big hole in our entire law."

She. is. unacceptable.

[truebrit71]

35. Exactly.

Disgusting.

[Carolina]

58. and despicable

Ironically, she is doing her damnedest to appear tough but in the end, the repukes will air ad after ad depicting her in charge of the military with an ominous sounding voice-over threatening:

"Do you trust HER with our national security?!"

Hillary is a loser to many of us because of her hawkish war position and a loser with repukes because NO MATTER WHAT she does, they loathe her and will unite to defeat her.

[Tellurian]

64. The headline in the link says: "Clinton Signs Anti-Torture Pledge"

doesn't anyone read the stuff that gets posted here?

[geek tragedy]

76. Another torture flip-flop from Hillary. If she

was asked about torture in a bath tub, she'd wind up waterboarding herself.

[still_one]

7. If someone votes for the Iran War Resolution, that means she agrees with the premise

If she declines to sign an anti-torture pledge, that means she wants the option

Let's here what her appologists say.

When bush said that he would appoint Supreme Court Justices in the mold of scalia and thomas, that is exactly what he did, appoint Federalist Society judges

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck it is a duck

Anyone who trust Hillary, don't be surprised when your expectations are not realized

[rinsd]

10. Except she hasn't declined to sign it. She has yet to respond.

With Obama the other lone Dem holdout signing it on Tuesday, I would imagine she will sign it very soon.

[still_one]

18. read the link, and her position on torture in general. She is all over the board

In spite of all studies to the contrary that torture is not an effective way to get information

You are sure, I wouldn't bet on it.

I have no doubt right now she is trying to see what would be most politically favoriable to her

[movonne]

53. Oh so she waits to see what Obama does...and not what is right...something

wrong here.

[Hieronymus]

8. Screw Hillary.

[geek tragedy]

9. Bush Cheney Lite. eom

[Ninga]

11. She won't because she can because she has to court the leftie hawks and triangulate and

obliterate and be the de facto nominee and run this primary like a general.

I am so sick of the tap dancing.

[Tellurian]

63. The headline in the link says: "Clinton Signs Anti-Torture Pledge"

doesn't anyone read the stuff that gets posted here?

[Eric J in MN]

16. Even Bush says, "We do not torture."

He's lying, but he feels a need to say it.

[still_one]

23. there is no way bush will sign it /nt

[C_U_L8R]

20. triangulation strangulation

gives me trepidation

[Pacifist Patriot]

24. Whether she has declined or simply not done so yet...

WHY?

This should be an absolute no-brainer!

[still_one]

30. Not at all, you have to determine what is politically more favoriable /nt

[Pacifist Patriot]

59. Sorry. Not for me.

I am between an idealist and a realist. But there comes a point where concern for human dignity is paramount. Torture is not a political issue, but a humane...and realistic...one. Any idiot knows that torture yields bupkus when it comes to viable intelligence. Therefore the use of torture is either for the sake of sadism or not. This is most definitely a no-brainer. Not a "political stance."

[still_one]

95. Not for me either, I was being cynical /nt

[gateley]

41. That's my question for Obama, too -- sincerely. They have to know it

looks bad, if nothing else. Ideally they would be in philosophical agreement, but....

[mmonk]

26. A fatal miscalculation if she doesn't IMO.

There shouldn't be hesitation on questions of right and wrong.

[gateley]

47. Any input as to where to find who has signed it? I can't get into the American

Freedom Campaign's site.

[mmonk]

57. Here's the link

http://www.americanfreedomcampaign.org/

[mmonk]

68. Here's who's signed it

Candidate Responses



Senator Joe Biden (D-DE)

Senator Joe Biden provided the American Freedom Campaign with a signed letter on September 25, detailing his commitment to defending the Constitution.



Senator Chris Dodd (D-CT)

Senator Dodd signed the pledge on August 31.



Senator John Edwards (D-NC)

Former Senator John Edwards provided the American Freedom Campaign with a signed letter on September 13, detailing his commitment to defending the Constitution.



Senator Mike Gravel (D-AK)

Former Senator Mike Gravel made a verbal commitment to sign the pledge on September 17. A signature on the pledge is forthcoming.



Representative Dennis Kucinich (D-OH)

Representative Kucinich signed the pledge on September 6.



Senator Barack Obama (D-IL)

Senator Obama signed the pledge on October 2.



Governor Bill Richardson (D-NM)

Governor Richardson signed the pledge on August 30.

[gateley]

94. Thank you. I'm in awe you were able to access the site. Appreciate it! nt

[Red Zelda]

29. Oh, Hil...

Rudy looks so much better in a dress. Now torture me, woman.

[Stephanie]

31. SHE HAS SOLD US OUT OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN

Why should anyone be surprised about this?

[Tellurian]

65. The headline in the link says: "Clinton Signs Anti-Torture Pledge"

doesn't anyone read the stuff that gets posted here?

[Ian David]

32. That now puts me in the position of saying ANYONE but HILLARY or BIDEN.

Oh, why couldn't we have had a Gore / Boxer ticket in 2008?

[sellitman]

36. She is a LIEberman-bush clone.

She really is making it harder and harder to pull the lever for in the GE.

I may have to get drunk in order to do it.

[gateley]

37. I'm trying to get into the American Freedom Campaign's site, but can't get

it to load. Anybody else try? And if so, were you successful?

[KaptBunnyPants]

39. Headline: Hillary refuses to renounce molesting children.

"Some children need molesting" say supporters. Joe Klein and Bruce Bartlett hail Clinton's strength and courage in the face of "Left wing extremism".

[asjr]

42. I would not sign it either. Why should anyone

sign it? Will it become another "resolution" like MoveOn, Rush Limbaugh, etc? This takes our minds off the reason we have an election. This is fodder for the media. This is for "show." Anything that will change the subject.

[gateley]

44. You have a point. But if that's the case, just sign it and get it out of the way.

Like they did with MoveOn.

[mmonk]

45. Because many of us want the next president of the US to abide

by the constitution of the US and the geneva convention. I will not vote for another violator.

[MGKrebs]

89. Oh right. Like someone who was going to violate the Constitution would

worry about signing this silly P.R. stunt. Please.

The next President will have to take a legal oath to uphold the Constitution. Remember?

[still_one]

46. then we have no moral basis to critisize if they do it to our soldiers. It is also a

violation of international law for another thing

[MGKrebs]

90. Exactly. But this pledge doesn't change that one bit.

It's just a letter. Not nearly the same weight as

THE OATH OF OFFICE.

[Ninja Jordan]

43. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss?

[Stand and Fight]

49. UPDATE: Clinton Signs Anti-Torture Pledge n/t

[mmonk]

54. Link

[rinsd]

72. Same one in the OP (blog has been updated)

[mmonk]

98. Thanks rinsd

I have since seen that she has responded. I'm glad she did.

[stillrockin]

50. Why anyone supports her is a mystery to me.

She is NO LEADER, people. She goes along to get along.
:dem:

[formercia]

52. I really would like to see a Woman in the White House

a real Woman.

Someone with empathy and sense of social justice, not some political flaming Drag Queen.


Hillary doesn't cut it. She's Junior in Drag.

[movonne]

60. At one time I has such hope for a lady leaders...Pelosi and Hillary

just left the list...

[Tellurian]

66. The headline in the link says: "Clinton Signs Anti-Torture Pledge"

[movonne]

92. But it she is going to be our leader, would you not think she should

have been the first to sign...not the last..

[Tellurian]

93. Ask Obama to wear a Flag Pin...

[formercia]

82. I used to like Nancy.

Sometimes it's best to stick with hairy legs. At least you know what you're getting up front.

[SDuderstadt]

55. Umm, if you follow the link, it says she's signed it

[jillan]

62. What is going on with her? Americans deserve a choice - if she gets the nomination

it will be a choice between 2 repugs.

[Tellurian]

67. The headline in the link says: "Clinton Signs Anti-Torture Pledge"

[Snarkturian Clone]

70. And there are still tons of people on DU who love her ...

WHY!?!?!?!?!

[Yukari Yakumo]

71. Bear in mind the source...

ABC, the same network that brought us "Path to 9/11". Can we really trust them to be objective?

[AX10]

74. Exactly!

[Ian David]

79. And ABC also fired Margaret Cho for being "too fat."

ABC sucks ass.

The bastards.




In any case, my position is now back to "Anyone but Biden."


Hillary is off my shit-list now.

[Donnachaidh]

73. So basically she was SHAMED into signing it by ABC?

No conscience involved -- just politics? Sounds a whole lot like the crackpot calling himself *The Decider* before he got into office. Yeah, we really need another non-listener in the WH.

[SaveElmer]

77. Did ya read the article...

Letter was in preparation before the ABC report...

[Donnachaidh]

86. uh huh uh huh

:rofl:

[rodeodance]

78. I see Obama just signed on yesterday----

[jsamuel]

80. True

Edwards signed on a while ago.

[Adelante]

81. Okay, this one's over

She has signed it.

[rodeodance]

83. abc: Clinton Endorses Anti-Torture Pledge

Forum Name Latest Breaking News
Topic subject Clinton Endorses Anti-Torture Pledge
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3016841#3016841
3016841, Clinton Endorses Anti-Torture Pledge
Posted by rodeodance on Thu Oct-04-07 03:42 PM

Source: abc



Clinton Endorses Anti-Torture Pledge

October 04, 2007 3:19 PM

ABC News' Rick Klein Reports : Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton has endorsed the principles of an anti-torture pledge circulated by a liberal organization, after facing criticism as the only Democratic candidate for president to withhold her support for a blanket statement condemning torture.

.......
"To lead, our country must uphold its most fundamental rules and standards," she writes. "The next president must not only possess a clear-eyed assessment of the terrorist threat, but must demonstrate the moral courage to face that threat without forsaking the values which set our Nation apart."

The freedom campaign first sent letters to the presidential candidates in August, asking for their pledges. With Sen. Barack Obama's commitment on Tuesday, all of the Democratic candidates except Clinton had signed off on the commitment, a situation that left leaders of the group frustrated.

Read more: http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/10/clinton-wont-si.html

[DrFunkenstein]

91. All Options Should Be On The Table

If we show weakness, the terrorists will win. They don't think we have the guts to torture people.

Why should they be allowed to commit crimes against humanity while our hands are tied?

We should be able to launch nuclear strikes against terrorist cells, too.

We can't pull out of Iraq or the terrorists will think we are wimps.

I don't want America to be used as a propoganda tool for our worst enemies by meeting with them diplomatically.

Let's vote for...

[Morereason]

102. Naw... You win by example. War is sometimes necessary, but never efficient

[illinoisprogressive]

96. She is going to be just like Bush. This is a red flag of her intentions

[illinoisprogressive]

97. Torture is not a liberal or conservative issue. It is simply wrong and what this country use to

take a stand against. And even conservatives like McCain don't approve. Only fringe elements and authoritarians are for torture. And there will come a day when they will have to confront how they lost their core decency to this inhumane thinking.

[OneBlueSky]

104. esactly . . . even if she signed it, I don't believe her . . . n/t

.

[Faryn Balyncd]

100. Actually, she HAS NOT SIGNED the pledge, but is "sending a letter" - Why not SIGN this pledge?

According to ABC:

"....Technically, Clinton did not sign the pledge. Instead, she sent a letter outlining her principles and broad agreement....."
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/10/clinton-wont-si.html






Why won't she sign this simple pledge? Does she have reservations?

THE AMERICAN FREEDOM PLEDGE

"We are Americans, and in our America we do not torture, we do not imprison people without charge or legal remedy, we do not tap people’s phones and emails without a court order, and above all we do not give any President unchecked power.

"I pledge to fight to protect and defend the Constitution from assault by any President."

And is she, or is she not, willing to endorse the 10 fundamental principles for which the American Freedom Campaign is fighting?

The American Freedom Campaign Agenda

At critical moments in our history, Americans have been called upon to protect our Constitutional guarantees of liberty and justice. We face such a moment today. The American Freedom Campaign is a non-partisan citizens' alliance formed to reverse the abuse of executive power and restore our system of checks and balances with these ten goals:

Fully restore the right to challenge the legality of one's detention, or habeas corpus, and the right of detained suspects to be charged and brought to trial.

Prohibit torture and all cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment.

Prohibit the use of secret evidence.

Prohibit the detention of anyone, including U.S. citizens, as an "enemy combatant" outside the battlefield, and on the President's say-so alone.

Prohibit the government from secretly breaking and entering our homes, tapping our phones or email, or seizing our computers without a court order, on the President's say-so alone.

Prohibit the President from "disappearing" anyone and holding them in secret detention.

Prohibit the executive from claiming "state secrets" to deny justice to victims of government misdeeds, and from claiming "executive privilege" to obstruct Congressional oversight and an open government.

Prohibit the abuse of signing statements, where the President seeks to disregard duly enacted provisions of bills.

Use the federal courts, or courts-martial, to charge and prosecute terrorism suspects, and close Guantanamo down.

Reaffirm that the Espionage Act does not prohibit journalists from reporting on classified national security matters without fear of prosecution.

It's great that Hillary agrees with the general idea, but what reason could justify not clearly and whole-hearedly committing to these fundamental American values, as Sen. Dodd, Rep. Kucinich, Gov. Richardson, Sen. Obama, and Sen. Gravel have done (and which all of the Republican frontrunners have refused to do)?