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McCain on "The Fair Tax" (Nat'l Sales Tax): "If the fair tax crossed my desk, I'd sign it."

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Amerigo Vespucci Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 07:57 PM
Original message
McCain on "The Fair Tax" (Nat'l Sales Tax): "If the fair tax crossed my desk, I'd sign it."
October 4, 2007
McCain jokes about using Greenspan — even if he's dead



PAWLEYS ISLAND, South Carolina (AP) – Republican John McCain said Thursday that as president he would appoint Alan Greenspan to lead a review of the nation's tax code — even if the former Federal Reserve chairman was dead.

"If he's alive or dead it doesn't matter. If he's dead, just prop him up and put some dark glasses on him like, like 'Weekend at Bernie's,"' McCain joked. "Let's get the best minds in America together and fix this tax code."

The 81-year-old Greenspan served as chairman of the Fed for 181/2 years.

Campaigning in early-voting South Carolina, McCain was asked about his support for a flat tax. "If the fair tax crossed my desk, I'd sign it. If a flat tax did, I'd sign it," McCain said while noting criticism of the concept. "What we all agree: It has to be made simpler and fairer."

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/



August 09, 2004, 8:47 a.m.
A National Sales Tax No Vote
The rates would be vastly higher than what you might suspect.

House Speaker Dennis Hastert created a flurry of excitement in Republican circles the other day when it was reported that he is proposing the abolition of the Internal Revenue Service in his new book. This would be accomplished by eliminating all existing federal taxes and replacing them with a national retail sales tax.

There is no indication of what tax rate Speaker Hastert thinks would be necessary to replace all federal revenue. A current proposal by Rep. John Linder (R., Ga.) says that a 23 percent rate would be adequate. But such a low rate can only be sustained by making completely absurd assumptions about what would be taxed. Every serious economist who has ever looked at this question has concluded that a vastly higher rate would in fact be needed.

An unstated assumption is that the 23 percent rate proposed by Linder is comparable to existing state and local sales taxes, where the tax comes on top of the purchase price. Thus, a 5 percent sales tax on a $1 purchase comes to $1.05.

But that’s not the way the Linder plan works. He deceptively calculates the rate as if the tax is part of the purchase price. He calls this the tax-inclusive rate. Calculating the rate the normal way people are accustomed to with state and local sales taxes would require a 30 percent tax rate, not 23 percent.

When Congress’s Joint Committee on Taxation scored the Linder proposal four years ago it estimated that it would actually require a tax-inclusive rate of 36 percent, not 23 percent, to equal current federal revenues. Calculating the rate in a normal, tax-exclusive manner would mean a 57 percent rate.

Economist Bill Gale of the Brookings Institution notes that supporters of the sales tax assume that there will be no tax evasion under their proposal and that the size of government will not grow, even though they would send a large annual check to every American in order to offset the regressivity of the tax. Making realistic assumptions, Gale estimates that the tax-inclusive rate, comparable to Linder’s proposed 23 percent rate, would actually have to be about 50 percent. A rate comparable to existing sales taxes would be close to 100 percent.

And let us not forget that state and local sales taxes would come on top of the federal sales tax, pushing the total rate even higher.

Obviously, the federal government is not going to impose tax rates this high, nor would anyone pay them if it did. There would be a massive tax revolt.

The Linder bill (H.R. 25) is also deceptive in its basic assumption that all consumption of goods and services in the U.S. would be taxed. Implicitly, Americans would be taxed on, among other things, all medical care, purchases of new homes, and services provided by state and local governments if Linder’s bill became law.

This means that if you are sick and have large doctor bills, you are going to pay 30 percent on top to the federal government. (Alternatively, you would pay 30 percent more for health insurance.) If you buy a new house listed for $150,000, your actual purchase price is going to be $195,000, including the sales tax. (Alternatively, there could be a tax on the imputed rent homeowners pay themselves for living in their own homes.) And if your children receive $20,000 worth of education each year from the local public schools, somehow or other you are going to have to pay an additional $6,000 to the federal government.

Of course, it is completely idiotic to think that the American people will ever allow this to happen. The idea of taxing all consumption sounds nice in theory until you realize just how broad the definition of “consumption” would be under Linder’s plan.

Economist Evan Koenig of the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas makes the point that any new sales tax is going to raise prices by that amount. If the Federal Reserve accommodates it, we are going to have 30 percent inflation the year the tax is introduced. If it is not accommodated, then producer prices are going to have to fall by 30 percent, which will cause a severe recession and greatly reduce the tax yield.

Somehow or other, Linder has gotten 54 House members to co-sponsor his proposal. They should all pray that their opponents overlook their poor judgment. When last the national retail sales tax was a major campaign issue — in the 1996 senate race in Louisiana — the Republican sales tax supporter was crushed by his anti-sales-tax Democratic opponent. That may explain why only two senators support Linder’s plan, one of whom is retiring this year.

With all due respect to Speaker Hastert, trying to eliminate the IRS by adopting a national retail sales tax is a very dumb idea.

— Bruce Bartlett is senior fellow for the National Center for Policy Analysis. Write to him here.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. Sales tax is regressive - and inherently UNfair
McCain is a fucking moron.
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. John Linder's 2006 opponent has a great smackdown of the FairTax
Heartily recommend everyone bookmark this for those times you're confronted with a member of the FairTax cult:

http://allanburns.com/more/index.cfm?Fuseaction=The_SoCalled_Fa§ion=more_12804

The following are specific concerns with the so-called “FairTax”, some of which are cited by the Advisory Panel and others by independent economists and tax policy experts:

* John Linder’s “FairTax” would raise taxes on most Americans while lowering those of wealthy taxpayers.
* The stated tax rate of 23 percent is misleading because it is a “tax-inclusive” rate, which is not how we think of a sales tax. Linder’s proposal would actually add 30 percent to nearly all purchases.
* At the 30 percent rate, the “FairTax” will produce less revenue than the taxes it will replace. This will result in enormous deficits or dramatic cuts in public services.
* To offset all lost revenue and maintain current service levels, a sales tax rate of 34% to 50% or higher would be needed. This would be in addition to state and local sales taxes.
* Linder’s proposal assumes that virtually all purchases would be taxed, including food, medical services, financial services, purchases by governments, schools, churches, etc. If the tax were limited to items typical of state sales taxes, a rate of 64 percent would be needed.
* Taxing all government purchases would require additional revenue equal to the amount of the sales tax just to maintain current service levels. Linder’s analysis ignores this fact.
* John Linder and “FairTax” proponents assume no tax evasion, which is unrealistic based on state experiences.
* Contrary to John Linder’s claims, the “FairTax” would not bring jobs back to America that have been outsourced to foreign countries where labor costs are a fraction of U.S. labor costs.
* The “FairTax” would not result in lower consumer prices unless incomes also decline by an amount equal to the embedded taxes. This is acknowledged by Linder’s often cited economist, Dale Jorgenson.
* John Linder’s “FairTax” would tax new home sales but not existing home sales, which could have a devastating effect on new home construction.
* John Linder’s “FairTax” would not eliminate the need for an IRS-like federal bureaucracy, but merely replace the IRS with another federal agency to administer the national sales tax and keep track of personal information required to administer grants to low-income taxpayers.
* The “FairTax” would not eliminate the filing of income tax returns for taxpayers in Georgia unless the state income tax is replaced with a state sales tax.
* A state sales tax in lieu of Georgia’s income tax, along with local sales taxes, would increase the total sales tax in Georgia by an additional 10% or more.
* There is little if any peer reviewed research to back up the claims and overly optimistic predictions of John Linder and the “FairTax” proponents.


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Amerigo Vespucci Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. That definitely is a good resource, nice and concise. Thanks for posting.
My favorite part:

"John Linder and “FairTax” proponents assume no tax evasion, which is unrealistic based on state experiences."

That's just what we all need...another government agency to make sure everyone's paying their "fair tax."

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Skink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
4. Federal internet sales tax.
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FormerDittoHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. ...is a shitty idea. Yes, I agree. n/t
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Skink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Are you rich?
Do you shirk taxes?
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FormerDittoHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. No. I just don't like crappy ideas like a Federal Internet Sales Tax. Do you like it? Why? n/t
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Skink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. People that can purchase things on the internet by definition....
are more well off than those without credit. Rich people have also figured out that this is a nice tax haven.
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FormerDittoHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. So if you have a computer and a credit card, you're rich? Hmmm. OK, you're right. n/t
:sarcasm:
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Skink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Ya..
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calteacherguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-04-07 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
11. He's irrelevant. nt
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