Clark supports Hillary's Iran Stance

[NewHampster]

I Support Hillary's Position on Iran

Like many of you, I am concerned about what I am reading and hearing about the apparent interest in parts of the Bush White House to go to war against Iran. And like you, I believe that we Democrats must do everything we can to prevent Bush and Cheney from sending this country into another preemptive war. (I invite you to visit my website StopIranWar.com)

Fortunately, Hillary Clinton has been on the front lines in opposing any effort by the Bush administration to sidestep the Congress. Eight months ago, she took to the Senate floor to warn the President that he could not attack Iran without specific congressional authorization. ..

...I support Hillary in both these votes. She is committed to ending the unilateralism of the Bush-Cheney administration. She is a strong supporter of direct nuclear talks with Iran, because she believes that direct dialogue with our adversaries is a sign of strength and confidence, and a prerequisite to achieving America's goals and objectives.

She has been one of the leaders in the Senate in standing up to the Bush administration's....

Full Post:Huffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gen-wesley-clark/i-support-hillarys-posit_b_67170.html

[Kagemusha]

1. Uh, but the Webb bill that Hillary supports includes giant loopholes.

Maybe it won't authorize a preemptive war, but it will support an 'emergency' counter-attack against Iranian forces 'attacking' US forces in Iraq, and that's all the rope Bush needs.

I guess that still covers Hillary's political rear end though.

[annabanana]

2. She also voted for Kyle-Lieberman...

I don't care for that.

[NewHampster]

3. I really don't pretend to know

but I know who I trust to inform me on military matters. Wesley Clark has earned my trust.

[laureloak]

4. Wow. Clark really has his nose stuck up it.

[leftchick]

9. money money money

money

[Gloria]

22. LOL! You got that right!! Although "complete sellout" seems also seems

appropriate....

[Evergreen Emerald]

5. I trust Clark

[emilyg]

15. I do, too.

[Auntie Bush]

26. Me too! I trust him explicitly.

[knight_of_the_star]

23. I trust him less

I don't know what she offered him, but that he's defending something that in terms of what he was saying prior to his endorsement is a bad idea is disconcerting to me.

[dugggy]

31. Gen Clark is very smart and I trust his judgement on Iran

and I laud Hillary Clinton for listening to Clark.

[knight_of_the_star]

66. I trust that he knows more on the issue

But I don't trust when he goes against what he himself said.

[dugggy]

68. Things change in geopolitics and smart people adapt to it.

[PurityOfEssence]

33. He and Hillary certainly seem to have the "unfounded belief" market cornered

Someday she'll fight against the reactionaries. Someday she'll stand up for workers. She'll take a stand, she really, really will; I can feel it.

As for Clark, he's also always been for or against whatever the current position is.

The big question is whether they'll each be on the same side of an issue at the same time before changing to the other or whether they'll alternate to keep it truly balanced. Only time will smell.

[Evergreen Emerald]

41. I have never seen that of either one of them.

Clark has been steadfast in his position since the start of the war.

[PurityOfEssence]

45. "since the start of the war"

Yes, perhaps this is true. The problem is that he and his supporters claim that he was ALWAYS against the IWR, which is flat-out false. This isn't the only policy where he's drastically rewritten history, either, and when called on about it, one is generally met with extreme vehemence.

He was always against vouchers--and how dare anyone even hint otherwise--even though he was for them in the beginning.

He lavishly praised the administration a Republican fundraiser over four months into this Reign of Error and after they'd shown their true reactionary feathers regarding many things, yet this is characterized as "merely" ceremonial and before any evidence of their wickedness was apparent.

He was against "don't ask, don't tell" to a query by Tim Russert in June of '03 but felt that the military "knew better" when asked by Paul Begala in July; now he's always been against it. Be quiet. "Always"; got it?

His expediency and inconsistency wouldn't be so irritating if he and many of his supporters weren't so adamant to the point of hostility at anyone who would dare pointing out that this trait is there.

They are perfectly suited for each other, and it will ruin them. People don't like flip-floppers too much, but they REALLY don't like opportunistic ones who simply obfuscate and don't tell the truth. If these two ultramoderate windsock wafflers are our standard bearers, it strikes at the heart of a traditional--and fairly justified--claim of the Democratic Party: that we revere the truth.

[redqueen]

59. "ultramoderate windsock wafflers"

Oooh I love that! Perfect description!


Dems, weak? Never! We stand up for our principles! (Okay, well... sometimes we do... if the polling looks good... and no donors get too upset...)

[sundancekid]

48. me too - pure "suspension of disbelief" poster children, both of them -

and this from a former Clark04 person ... Clark was the same one who just couldn't announce for the presidency run cuz "he was gonna stop the war with iran" ------ more orwell, more cronyism, more disconnect, more opportunism, and way LESS respect.

What a slide for you, sir!

[janx]

61. Did he actually say that?

?

[Gloria]

71. Yes...he started with working to stop the war with Iran and his

supporters picked up on that bigtime as they pondered what he was going to do. Then he said he had conditions that had to be met before he could decide on a run.

Next thing you know, he's endorsing Hillary.

[Moochy]

47. I too place all of my trust 100% in the strong military figure, clark

he is my hero, he will save us all.

[gateley]

6. These days the word "stance" conjures up distasteful visuals. :) nt

[illinoisprogressive]

7. Big surprise. he works for her.

[BootinUp]

8. Confirms my argument for her vote

And to anyone who differs with Clark, I think his credentials and experience in foreign affairs means it is worth reconsidering your opinion on the castrated Kyl Leiberman resolution.

[Kagemusha]

12. That's a really sad argument to make.

Don't think for yourself, just trust Clark, believe everything he says is true without independent thought or assessment. Because he has credentials.

Even if I didn't know anything about Kyl-Lieberman at all, just the nature of the argument would have scared me off.

[BootinUp]

36. Did I say don't think?

nonsense, are you qualified to be Secretary of State?

[Kagemusha]

44. If I was, what's it to you? I'm not a politician so it's an irrelevant question.

I make it my business to know a lot about the world even though I have little power to change it, out of what I'm sure some friends of mine would call pure masochism in pursuit of knowledge. I'm plenty qualified to think for myself and not trust Clark to try and revise what I already think about voting for the Lieberman bill and now getting on the Webb bill bandwagon, which is, incidentally, that Hillary is literally trying to have it both ways: come out against Iran in such a way that if Bush hits it, well, Iran deserved it, but also coming out against hitting Iran (with giant exceptions that oil tankers can be driven through) so that she can claim she never actually approved hitting Iran PER SE.

Clark's position is essentially, forget what the left hand just did; you didn't see it, and trust me, it didn't do anything bad. Watch only what the right hand is doing. Sorry, I don't fall for that line. From anyone.

[BootinUp]

54. Ignorance leads to misinterpretation

I have discussed the castrated Kyl Lieberman bill to death, and don't intend to again, however, I will leave it like this, it ain't a declaration of war, it ain't a justification for war, its a justification to apply more diplomatic pressure to Iran plain and simple. The nutroots got it wrong.

[TwilightGardener]

58. Bwah! You're one of the few to argue FOR this resolution. Amazing how

SO many of us, including some of the best minds in the Senate, get it wrong, but YOU are right. Well, you and Jon Kyl and Joe Lieberman--those two are always up to something good, aren't they? When they come out with a resolution against Iran, you just KNOW Chimpy's going, "Dammit! Foiled again by Joe Lieberman and Jon Kyl--those two are such peace doves!"

[NewHampster]

37. Yes, trust is involved

Sorry but that is how our system works.

We live in a representative democracy. We trust people to represent us with their best judgment because we cannot all be in DC making laws or understanding all the issues behind a law.

We have to rely on trust. We have to accept that we/I do not have all the answers myself.

I trust General Clark and I trust Hillary Clinton because they both have earned it.

[Kagemusha]

46. I'm glad you're at peace not caring what they actually stand for.

That's not a satisfaction I can achieve, because I have the burden of actually knowing what Hillary's signed up for with both of these bills, and not blindly trusting either Clinton or Clark. It's a harder life.

[NewHampster]

56. Not blind trust

I know their basic stances. I have to trust them because I am not nor never will be knowledgeable on everything they face.

I also cannot outright reject any politician because of one vote or one stance I disagree with. You find me someone perfect, a politician who never hurt a soul on the way up. You find me someone perfect and I'd ask you to take off the rose colored glasses.

[Kagemusha]

60. News flash: Being wrong on Iran is going to be more than one little mistake.

Not that I view anyone but Bush himself as being in charge of this situation but, cheerleading for Iran to be slapped down and then voting for a bill to claim it stops Bush from attacking, unless Iran "attacks first" (hey, Poland "attacked first" in 1939 too), is just politics.

I'm sure Clark understands that.

[BootinUp]

70. So when will the bombs fly?

If the left is going to claim this resolution has some connection to a future war I'd like to know when the statute of limitations runs out on that claim.

[geek tragedy]

14. Jim Webb isn't impressed with her Iran vote,

and he's not a Clinton flunky.

[calteacherguy]

30. Clark said he was "uneasy" with that amendment. nt

[BootinUp]

35. The bill was changed right before the vote

For all we know he learned more about the final version after he said that. Also, "uneasy" was not exactly strong opposition I might point out.

[SaveElmer]

52. The portions he was uneasy about were removed...nt

[TwilightGardener]

53. I keep asking this--if Kyl-Lieberman was SO "castrated" and meaningless, WHY did two Repubs

go against their party to vote it down?

[janx]

63. It is by no means meaningless...

and it's one of the stupidest things this Hillary Clinton has done. It's pure saber rattling.

[TwilightGardener]

64. Yep--I agree.

[Windy]

10. That's a shame. He's contradicted himself!

I was a supporter and frequently read his Stop Iran War Now site. I guess he'll be taking all of the articles down where he takes a stong stance against the positions of Joe Lieberman when it comes to Iran, as well as other articles.

I understand that he was the supreme allied commander of Nato during the Clinton admin and work closely with him in Kosovo, and won that war, but to agree with the position of HRC on Lieberman Kyl clearly shows that his loyalty lies with the Clinton machine as opposed to his own beliefs.


I am saddened.

[NewHampster]

11. Maybe

His loyalty lies with winning.

Maybe he sees the goal and understands that as in any war there are sacrifices.

Maybe some Dems need to finally realize where the real war is.

[Gregorian]

17. Thanks. I need ways to understand this.

I voted Wes in the last primary. And I seriously doubt he's doing something I would disagree with. But...this is mighty suspect.

I don't like the convoluted logic. But again, that's where Wes is king. At least I think so.

[NewHampster]

19. I hope you meant that

and I really do hope I helped.

[calteacherguy]

28. He said the kyl-Lieberman ammendment was the wrong approach.

You can't expect him to agree with her 100%.

[TwilightGardener]

55. She played political games on a crucial vote--supposedly the whole

point of Wes Clark's mission in "Stop Iran War" is to...I don't know...prevent war with Iran. K/L does not prevent war with Iran. It may ENABLE war with Iran, if Chimpy construes an attack on Iran's army as just another "front" in the war on terror.

[geek tragedy]

13. Wow, Wes Clark sells out.

Praising Kyl-Lieberman. He must really want that Cabinet position.

I used to be a Clarkie, so it's really painful to see him act like just another Clinton lapdog.

[calteacherguy]

27. He's criticized Kyl-Lieberman, actually.

Just because someone endorses someone, you can't expect them to agree with them 100%.

[geek tragedy]

39. His characterization of Kyl-Lieberman:

"Last week, Hillary voted for a non-binding resolution that designates the odious Iranian Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist organization in order to strengthen our diplomatic hand. "

Yep. Thanks for being a real straight shooter, Wes. :sarcasm:

[calteacherguy]

69. He's saying that's the thinking behind her vote.

But he also said he was "uneasy" about it overall.

[PurityOfEssence]

34. Nah. He long since sold; now he's just collecting residuals

This is one of the darker hours of late: many truly believed in this man and this is not a pleasant thing to witness.

I need to go bathe.

[janx]

38. I'm going back to bed...n/t

[high density]

16. I'm a "Wes Clark Democrat"

I have to agree that the whoring for Clinton is just so painful to watch.

[HughMoran]

20. "whoring for Clinton"

I know - I can't believe posts actually supporting the likely Democratic candidate are even allowed on democratic underground.

[NewHampster]

21. well put

[knight_of_the_star]

25. I think the term is appropriate here

He endorsed her and now is making statements that don't gel with his previous ones, so it really feels a lot like he sold out.

[HughMoran]

43. Clark does not seem like the type who would sell out

:shrug:

[Moochy]

50. Good thing you are just a poster

and not an all powerful mod. :eyes:

[knight_of_the_star]

24. I'm with you there

I WAS a Wes Clark Dem. Fuck him running got me to change my voter registration. I guess he isn't as great as he seemed to be, shame that. Ah well, there's always real heroes in the Tain and the Eddas.

[Exultant Democracy]

18. Kyl/ Lieberman... Bad vote, evil position.

How much blood is enough?

[calteacherguy]

29. Clark didn't like it, either. nt

[janx]

65. It's a complete diplomatic blunder.

It is not diplomacy.

[PurityOfEssence]

32. Yes, Hillary always has been on the front lines of the war against wars by facilitating them

So tell us, General, how many of Hillary's other positions on Iran do you support?

[MadHound]

40. Damn, Clark is really trying to get that VP slot

Tell me Wes, since when did we start declaring the legitimate military units of another country to be terrorists? Does this mean that the Rangers, or SEALS are also terrorists?

Yeah, if Hillary gets the nod, Clark is going to be the VP, and away we'll go into another military venture in Iran.

[mmonk]

42. Kyl-Lieberman is problematic in this climate.

I'll just have to watch and see what she does before passing judgment of her policy approach. I have no idea on her true stands.

[ShortnFiery]

49. "I have no idea on her true stands." That's precisely why I will not ever vote for HRC. n/t

[TwilightGardener]

51. You think Hillary has ANY "true stands", that she won't change on a dime if

it suits her politically? She might get into office and do the right thing, but it's not for America--it's for her, always.

[truebrit71]

57. It would appear that the General is working hard for the VP slot...

...either that or Sec of State...

Neither would be bad, but his boss would suck....

[AzDar]

62. Sounds like General Clark is hoping for a Veep spot in the Bill and Hill

Circus Spectacular 2008.
A hero ain't nothing but a sandwich, I suppose....:puke:

[Carrieyazel]

67. That's too bad. But with him firmly entrenched in Hillaryland, what did you expect?