Can we all just CALM THE F*** DOWN?!?!......okay. calm.

[PretzelWarrior]

I am trying hard to wade through all of these threads, and please forgive me for what I am about to say. I have not been on Democratic Underground regularly for quite a few months. We've had some terrific discussions in the past, but it seems like this is a repeat of 2004.

Because everyone is so sick and tired of Bush and the jerks in Washington not listening to progressives, everyone is just absolutely GOING AFTER one another and the candidates we seek to back. WTF?? Whether you are talking about CLinton or Edwards or Obama or Gravel or others.....I would hope we can agree that getting one into the White House is better than having a McCain, Romney, or Guliani running the show for another 4 or 8 years. Is that a fair statement?

I don't know. It just felt so depressing on here when people were saying to most mean and vindictive things about Kerry or Dean or Gephardt. and it really accomplished nothing other than dividing us and giving others outside the fold more ammo to point at us.

Democratic leaders have learned how to deal with the tricks of the Republicans when they are in full warfare mode, and I notice the old tricks that worked in 2002 and 2004 are falling flat with a big THUD!

We can sieze the initiative and get many people mobilized and motivated for 2008 by having a good clean fight. Yes, some here think Hillary Clinton has been made the presumptive nominee, but many a political king or queen was dethroned before they even got to the prize. Let's just discuss WHY WE BACK our particular candidates and leave it at that.

There's no need to go negative on these boards. It is about OBLITERATING the GOP in both houses so we have filibuster proof majorities in House and Senate. It is about getting a Democrat in the White House. I'm excited about any of them getting to the White House.

Even on her worst days, Hillary would be a person who would reverse many horrible things that have happened these 8 years and even in the days when her husband was doing battle with a GOP majority in the houses.

I'm sure there will follow a whole raft of posts telling me I'm out of line. And it probably won't do any good, but I do hope we can realize the true objective here.

[liberalmuse]

1. Oh no, you're not out of line.

I understand people are sick to death of all the BS, but even the worst of the Democratic Presidetial candidates is 100 times better than the best Republican candidate (and I won't even try to figure out who that would be).

[Maggie_May]

2. I will vote for the Democrat nominee who ever he or she

may be you are correct we do need to stick together and we will. Its just really hard right now a lot of us voted to end this war and we see no end in sight.

[BenDavid]

14. Well said and when all of this is

over and hopefully it will be in the middle of February then we all can coalesce around our nominee and do all we can to win not only the presidency but more seats in the house and especially more seats in the senate....

Ben David

[mzteris]

3. hear! hear!

well done. well said.


:applause:

[Jade Fox]

4. Thanks, PW.....

welcome back

[PatSeg]

5. You're out of line.........NOT

Your words reflect what many of us here have been thinking and you summed it up quite well. We don't have to agree about everything and we don't have to like every candidate, but our energy would be better spent promoting our candidates, rather than tearing down another.

I am especially disturbed when the criticism of a candidate ends up being a personal attack on a poster. That doesn't accomplish anything other than the equivalent of a bar brawl. If we wanted that, we'd go to a right-wing site.

Thanks for your post - good timing.

[Gman]

6. 2004 was bad, real bad at times

avatars were gang colors. There were drive-bys every day. Lots of fights in the streets. Blood was everywhere.

Haven't seen it that bad yet this go-round. Everyone just likes to pile on Hillary by starting OP's with articles from right wing websites. Seems to be the thing to do. Guess that's because there seem to be a lot more Free Republic freepers signed up to disrupt than in the past. One thing the far left and FR have in common is hatred for Hillary.

[Carrieyazel]

7. Excellent post. There's a lot there to think about.

A lot of passion on these boards. Because we've GOT to get the White House back. That includes nominating the right one. If we nominate someone who can't get us the White House back, we will sorely regret it.

[ccpup]

8. I wasn't here in 2004

but DU now often reminds me of a school yard with thoughtless words being flung to and fro. (and, believe it or not, there are those on DU who would make fun of my use of the phrase "to and fro"!) I've often thought of just leaving DU, discontinuing my donations and never looking back, but I still hold out hope that it will at some point be a useful site to visit and learn from. A lot of it nowadays is just attack, attack and attack -- just because you disagree with someone?! -- and I usually sign off with a sick feeling in my stomach and one doozy of a headache.

[Mojorabbit]

9. It feels kind of cultish

in that the candidates can't be discussed on their merits. Maybe it is because I haven't chosen anyone yet but even if I had I wouldn't take it as a personal affront if someone did not like my candidate. I have a real life and none of these candidates live in my middle class world and are not a reflection of who I am.

[PretzelWarrior]

13. glad you're added to the gang now. it should be fun

because all the winds seem to point to a tsunami. which means we'll add a few seats in the houses and barely win the White House (those stupid unverified voting machines will strike again).

So......let's keep the momentum going. Keep telling all your friends and family about all the latest revelations on Republicans and the scandals. Let people know about their amoral bad votes against kids.

Get the conventional wisdome firmly in people's minds that GOP = disaster. Even a few more GOP leaning minds might hold their noses and vote for a Dem or at the very least sit this one out.

[avrdream]

16. Your name makes me hungry.

But I seriously agree with you.

My brother-in-law defended Bush no matter what I said when Dubya was first up for election. Today he is sick of the Republicans and has decided to vote Dem for the first time in his life (he is 40). I just kept talking and talking and talking. Not yelling, not demeaning him, not insulting his choices....just talking about the differences. He has come to realize that GOP = disaster. I don't think he is even going to hold his nose.

Cheers.

[Grandrose]

10. No truer words....(K&R)

Thanks for keeping it real!:thumbsup: :kick:

[gateley]

11. Truer words.... Thanks. nt

[emilyg]

12. K&R

[Milo_Bloom]

15. Sorry, I just can't agree with this statement...

"I would hope we can agree that getting one into the White House is better than having a McCain, Romney, or Guliani running the show for another 4 or 8 years. Is that a fair statement?"

I actually believe that Clinton, Edwards, Biden or Dodd in the White House is a far FAR worse thing, as it leads to significant long term damage to the country/party.

As a progressive, my objective is not D win at all costs. I actually don't care what letter people have next to their name and in the long run here are some basic truths I believe.

#1) If the war isn't going to end, I would rather NOT have it be blamed on a weak democrat in office unable to stand up to the GOP and end the war.

#2) I don't want an insurance mandate to substitute for health insurance, as it only serves to exacerbate the problem, by sweeping it under the rug.

I am looking for a real problem solver in office, not someone who is going to make tiny little tweaks to the status quo in the hope that the baby step may be continued by a future president. I have seen absolutely nothing, bold, innovative or even all that interesting out of Clinton, Edwards, Biden and Dodd.

If the Dems are unwilling to put up a candidate who fits that bill, I am not only unwilling to vote for the Democratic candidate, BUT hope that they lose so the democrats will have a chance to get a real candidate in 2012. B/c if you put a capitulator in office now, nothing will change and you can most likely say goodbye to the congress in 2010 AND the presidency in 2012, as the dems will no doubt not unseat a sitting president in the primary.

[John Kerry VonErich]

17. What about Kucinich?

nt

[MGKrebs]

18. I was thinking last night that GD-P in DU is a sort of Virtual Reality game now

Many people (not just here, but everywhere) seem to be attracted to conflict, drama, confrontation, and competition. Sports, reality TV, X-Box, all feed this desire in us. I guess it shouldn't be surprising that when given the tools, many of us create that sort of environment for ourselves here.