Jerome Armstrong: "the single most disgusting ad I've ever seen occur in a Democratic primary."

[SaveElmer]

Who was he talking about...?

Why Obama Communications Director Robert Gibbs of course...the genius behind the famous attack ad against Howard Dean in 2004 featuring Osama Bin Laden...

I guess this is Obama's "new kind of politics" eh?

You can see Gibb's handiwork here... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1DqOwP3Xzc

More from Armstrong...

If Gibbs is gonna be the voice of Obama, then what I want to know is whether Gibbs has renounced his past association with the anti-Dean ad that Joe Trippi called the "the kind of fearmongering attack we've come to expect from Republicans," one that "panders to the worst in voters." Mistake?

And does Gibbs still believe that a Presidential candidate with "no military or foreign policy experience" is "unqualified"? Then how Gibbs, is Barack Obama going compete with John McCain on foreign policy. Howard Dean was right on Iraq too, ya know.

Everytime I see Gibbs as Obama's campaign voice, I get further and further from seeing Obama as a candidate that is strategically smart, different, or an effective transformative leader. I really don't know what Obama is building. Sometimes I get the sense that he believes he can start the progressive online movement all over again, this time in his camp. I can tell though that whatever the Obama camp is building, his spokesman is not our partner.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/2/22/101914/565

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/sleuth/2007/02/obama_spokesman_under_scrutiny.html

[mrreowwr_kittty]

1. And Clinton surrounds herself with Rupert Murdoch and a guy with Blackwater ties

Your point?

[SaveElmer]

2. Hypocrisy...nt

[ccpup]

3. Exactly ... n/t

[mrreowwr_kittty]

6. It goes both ways, doesn't it?

If the Clinton camp is going to criticize Obama for an association then she should really get rid of the unsavory characters in her entourage, shouldn't she?

Oh, but then, who would be left?

[SaveElmer]

11. Think its the other way around...

When is the last time you saw an attack on Obama around here based on his association with Gibbs...?

What is good for the goose is good for the gander...

[mrreowwr_kittty]

21. But gosh, no one but Clinton even matters at this point, right?

What with her 33% lead and inevitability and massive corporate whoops I mean grassroots support. All those other candidates are but minor roadbumps in the path of the Mighty Clinton Juggernaut.

Why even worry yourselves about Obama's iddy biddy little campaign now? Your candidate has it in the bag. Right?

[SaveElmer]

22. Funny...

I noticed you didn't address either the OP or the previous response...

But mockery and diversion is what I have come to expect...

Funny you mention corporate support...I wonder what you think about the fact Obama has been more successful than Hillary fundraising on Wall Street...

[mrreowwr_kittty]

25. Now you see how Clinton supporters come off

When we ask you about things like NAFTA, we are met with evasions and diversions. As for Wall Street, Obama may be getting more money than Hillary but he isn't exactly cutting them any slack.

I really have no problem with those contributions. Maybe those investors on Wall Street think he's smarter. :shrug: At any rate, if you look at the break down of contributions overall, it's easy to see that Obama is getting a lot more of his money from the grassroots than Clinton is.

[SaveElmer]

28. I have never been asked about NAFTA...

But let me ask you...

Is Hillary a party to both the successes and failures of the Clinton administration...or only the failures?

Actually if you look at the breakdown of contributions overall...you see both candidates are the beneficiaries of excellent grassroots support...wouldn't you agree? Or do believe the majority of the 100,000 new donors Hillary acquired over the last three months constitutes "corporate" support?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

31. I personally know one wealthy family in my hometown

Where every immediate family member gave the maximum donation to Clinton. The money came from the father, who is a prominent developer. Also, 6 employees of his gave maximum contributions, also with the money coming from him. I know this family well enough to know that all the money came from him. This is very typical of wealthy donors, who are limited by law in the amounts they can give. This appears to be happening all over the country with Clinton donations.

BRISTOW, Va. -- When Hillary Rodham Clinton held an intimate fund-raising event at her Washington home in late March, Pamela Layton donated $4,600, the maximum allowed by law, to Mrs. Clinton's presidential campaign.

But the 37-year-old Ms. Layton says she and her husband were reimbursed by her husband's boss for the donations. "It wasn't personal money. It was all corporate money," Mrs. Layton said outside her home here. "I don't even like Hillary. I'm a Republican."

more

As for NAFTA, you're basically saying that we should accept it because some good stuff happened during the Clinton years too?

[dragonlady]

32. A contributor to the Democratic governor was prosecuted for this kind of thing

in Wisconsin. Republican U.S. Attorney, of course.

[SaveElmer]

47. Ok...lets try again...

One...I have never been asked about NAFTA...so your characterization of my position on it is baseless...

And two, do you believe Hillary has benefited from significant grassroots support, and if not, do you believe the 100,000 donors she acquired last month are all corporate?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

72. I's possible that many of them gave under the names of relatives or employees

I cited my personal example and that WSJ article cites another. If you've been around politics at all, you know it happens regularly. Clinton is not the first to do it, and probably there are those doing it for Obama and others as well. All I can tell you is, in my corner of the world, I'm seeing a response to Obama that is similar to Howard Dean 4 years ago. I'm seeing the same bigshots giving to Clinton. Maybe it's different where you are.

As for NAFTA, what's her position on it?

[Joe the Revelator]

40. Posting a blog attack against Obama from FEBURARY

is not the same as hillary remaining to be tied to a blackwater supporter. Its not even on the same level. At all.

[oasis]

44. So I guess you won't be having a tantrum about Mark Penn come next June.

Great news.

[Joe the Revelator]

45. You can't seriously be comparing a commercial

to mark penn's indiscretions. They aren't even in the same zip code.

[Ethelk2044]

67. You are so correct. She should get rid of the company she keeps

Pot calling the kettle black when it is black itself?

[emilyg]

35. Yes.

[abq e streeter]

4. Her point, as always

is that Hillary is perfect in every way and us mere mortals should immediately cease and desist from trying to stop the righteous and inevitable coronation of the oh so perfect one. Resistance is futile, resistance is futile, resistance is futile...

[mrreowwr_kittty]

7. Am I the only one who hears a faint chorus of "Evita!" right now? nt

[Colobo]

8. Obama > Those Democrats who attack him.

[SaveElmer]

9. Sorry...if associates of the candidate are fair game

When it comes to Hillary...it is fair for everyone...

Fact is this guy was the brains behind one of the most vile ads ever directed at a Democrat during a primary...and it does say something that Obama hired him anyway...

[Colobo]

10. Tell Hillary to get rid of that sleazebag Howard Wolfson

and then we can talk.

I don't like Mark Penn's track record either.

[SaveElmer]

12. He is just obnoxious...

Hardly the slime ball Gibbs is...

If we are gonna be treated to t he same 10 Mark Penn posts daily...certainly this sleazeball is worth one or two?

[Colobo]

14. Had Gibbs been working with Hillary, you wouldn't say anything,

[SaveElmer]

15. When have you seen me attack Obama for his association with Gibbs before...?

I believe I mentioned him once before...

In fact, how often have you seen his name mentioned here?

Now compare that to the number of posts on Mark Penn...

[Colobo]

17. Those who are posting that are Obama supporters? All of them?

It would be nice to see you firing at others who are also attacking your candidate mercilessly.

[SaveElmer]

18. I do...nt

[HeraldSquare212]

26. That's a lot different than actively engaging in union-busting

[Joe the Revelator]

41. It would be fair, if your article wasn't EIGHT MONTHS OLD

and if the indiscrations were on the same level

[KoKo]

5. K&R..

[Cameron27]

13. Hold everyone to the same standards on this board.

K&R

[geek tragedy]

16. A blog post from February?

Hmmm, negative attack ad vs. shooting up an Iraqi market place and union busting.

[Evergreen Emerald]

19. and this is the ONLY post about it! If he were Clinton's directer

this would have been the 20th post about it.

I am so tired of the hypocritical arguments on DU. The constant attacks against Clinton--for things that other candidates did as well and for things that are twisted or exaggerated or outright made up. And, one dares question any other candidates and the anti-clinton gnats come swarming

[geek tragedy]

20. Penn is ten times worse than Gibbs.

Blackwater? BLACKWATER???

[Bullet1987]

23. What is this the new tactic from the Clinton supporters?

Bring up something one of Obama's people have done to change the subject from Mark Penn and his Blackwater ties? LOL...

[SaveElmer]

24. Interesting...

So it's ok to criticize Hillary based on her associations...

But it is not ok to do so for the other candidates...

There is a word for this...yes I'm certain there is...oh right...it is called...hypocrisy...

[Bullet1987]

37. But you see, you're only bringing this up because of the Mark Penn

story which makes your argument petty. It's not about hypocrisy...everybody knows a lot of campaign people have dirty hands.

[SaveElmer]

50. And since there are dozens of posts on those Clinton detractors don't like...

I certainly thought one on Robert Gibbs was appropriate as well...

When I see the same disgust people evince for Mark Penn on the unsavory associations of the other candidates then I will take them seriously..until then...if this is the playing field folks want to play on...I am more than willing...

[Evergreen Emerald]

27. why does it have to be us-versus-them?

Your refusal to acknowledge anything wrong with other candidates while so so very ugly at anything clinton makes me wonder.

[Tellurian]

30. Blind devotion and Blind Hatred= another Republican presidency..

thanks to the netroots!

[maximusveritas]

29. Where's the evidence that Gibbs was the "genius behind" the ad?

The blog post you reference only says he defended the ad in his role as spokesman for the group and then says he was probably involved somewhat in the ad because of his high position in the group.

I think the difference between Penn and Gibbs is that Penn really is like Hillary's "Karl Rove" in that he is a longtime friend and major part of her inner circle and Bill's. Gibbs is just a spokesman and press secretary who Obama hired to work for him after he worked for John Kerry's campaign in 2003.

[Vickers]

33. THAT'S IT!!! I'm voting for Hillary.

:rofl:

[cascadiance]

34. And one wonders why I support Gore or Edwards!

NOT! It is this kind of crap between the top two candidates instead of really focusing on issues that need to be dealt with to get rid of K-Street lobbying that they don't seem to want to deal with (probably intentionally!)

[mmonk]

36. Those kind of guys are avaliable to the highest bidder.

Their only politics is the business deal.

[killbotfactory]

38. He worked for John Kerry, and I voted for John Kerry

so why wouldn't I vote for Obama?

[Joe the Revelator]

39. This is from Feburary, stop trying to deflect...

are you really going to pull this out because Hillary is getting blasted TODAY?

[Joe the Revelator]

42. You should be ashamed of yourself Elmer....

completely and utterly ashamed of this post.

[SaveElmer]

48. When I see you making the same admonishment

On the myriad Mark Penn etc posts I will take you seriously...until then...what is good for the goose is good for the gander...

[Joe the Revelator]

52. Explain to me how this OLD attack piece is even in the same ballpark as what Mark Penn has done?

One was a effective, if not controversial, commercial, the other is a corrupt operative with ties to things that we're trying to get out of washington. How is that the same Elmer?

[SaveElmer]

56. Mark Penn is new...?

Christ I have been seeing Mark Penn posts here for two years...it's the same old guilt by association crap that goes on here all the time...

If a candidate is going to be judged by the people they hire, then it has to apply to all...Robert Gibbs is a political slime bucket of the first order...and this is the man Barack Obama chose to be his communications director...

Entirely the same...

And if you think the commercial was not controversial..you weren't paying attention 3 years ago...

[Joe the Revelator]

59. Your not answering the question...Blackwater is political evil...

attack commercials are par for the course. IF your Saint gets the nomination, I'm sure she'll get her hands muddy as well

[SaveElmer]

62. So are you saying Hillary is responsible for Blackwater...

Ok...lets say for a second I agree with your premise...will you be willing to say then that Obama has mud on his hands for the creation of slums in Chicago built and neglected by his indicted mentor in Chicago?

A man he took money and advise from...and a man on who's behalf he wrote letters encouraging the awarding of state contracts too...

Is that then fair game here?

[Joe the Revelator]

63. While Obama's connections are troubling...

..the war has not been prolonged because of them. Hillary, already the pro-war canidate, can ill afford to have her MAIN man be this close to blackwater.

[SaveElmer]

64. This close...

Brother...well it is Hillary we are talking about, so the definition of close is constantly changing...

Whereas Obama's connections are direct and personal...Mark Penn is the CEO of a company, with a subsidiary company, with one branch that advised the CEO of Blackwater on his testimony...

And oh btw, Penn had no connection with the Blackwater account...and the subsidiary company has terminated its relationship with Blackwater...

If the exact same connection were made to Obama, it would be laughed off around here...

[Joe the Revelator]

65. We're not talking about Obama though...

..you can try to deflect this all night, but it just makes you look petty. Hillary is the one who is caught with her pants down right now, and she needs to effectivly prove that she is not bring the same corruption that we've been fighting again the last eight years, right back into the White House.

My question for you is, why don't you find this troubling? I mean, I'm sure you find the Cheney connections troubling. We've made connections from Bush to things like blackwater with much less. So, why is it ok if Hillary does it?

[SaveElmer]

68. Of course we are...the point is the double standard...

Applied to Hillary...

The point of my OP to begin with...

Deny it all you want...but if this exact tenuous chain from Hillary to Blackwater were made about Obama...or Edwards for that matter...those making it would be attacked mercilessly for slandering them...

The reaction to this one puny post on Gibbs ought to be proof enough of that...

[Joe the Revelator]

69. and if I didn't eat so much I wouldn't be fat....

you can see boogymen in the closet all you want, but Hillary, right now, is the one with the Blackwater problem. Not Obama, not Edwards, not Biden, but Hillary. Cry about a double standard, but she's the one that puts herself into these positions.

[AtomicKitten]

43. meow

[Forkboy]

46. Must......distract ..... from....Penn...story

[SaveElmer]

49. Must...expose...DU. ..hypocrisy...

eom

[Joe the Revelator]

53. By using an example that is nothing like the Mark Penn Scandal?

Ha, ok.

[SaveElmer]

54. Of course it is...nt

[Joe the Revelator]

55. One guy made a commercial, the other guy is tied into everything thats wrong in DC...

how is that the same?

[SaveElmer]

57. Do you agree then that Robert Gibbs is a slime ball

DO you think Obama should have hired him...

Same old guilt by association crap that goes on here all the time...if people are going to be judged by the people they deal with then it has to apply to all...this is the first Robert Gibbs post in months...while there are about ten on the front page alone about Penn...

Certainly, if you think Mark Penn is worse, then you are getting about the correct proportion of attention to them...wouldn't you say?

Now of course, I could go into the dealings Obama had with Tony Rezko...makes the Gibbs association pale in comparison...but we will leave that for another time...

[Joe the Revelator]

61. No, Gibbs is effective....

Last I checked, commercials were never war profiteers

[Debi]

51. And Trippi is a f*&%$ng saint?

At least he isn't the media consultant for Edwards so the Senator MAY have some $$ after the first couple of states (while JT makes millions through his consulting firm).....Oh....wait...x( http://politicalwire.com/archives/2007/10/01/edwards_loses_key_staffer.html

[Tellurian]

58. more news...on JE campaign status

The news is 5 days old but a few tidbits of insight..

here:

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2007/10/edwards_media_consultant_part.html

[Debi]

60. I'm not bothered about campaign turn-over

every campaign is somewhat of a revolving door (look at Clinton's camp here in Iowa).

I just can't trust Trippi any farther than I could throw him - and can't believe Edwards does :eyes: didn't he learn anything from 2004???

[Tellurian]

70. doesn't bother me either..

just a floating factoid.

Especially where Kerry made the same mistake... empty pockets. :yoiks:

[Ethelk2044]

66. Hypocrisy of this post.

[gateley]

71. The two with the most money hire the two most expensive PR pros. nt