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Why One Quarter of Americans (Including the Edwards) Knew Ohio 2004 Was Stolen in 2004

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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 02:00 PM
Original message
Why One Quarter of Americans (Including the Edwards) Knew Ohio 2004 Was Stolen in 2004
I can not believe the lengths that some people will go to to justify John Kerry's decision not to fight for the rights of Ohio voters in Election 2004. He blew it and he blew his political career at the same time, and the man will have to live with this bad decision for the rest of his life. It does not help that his wife, his running mate, and his running mates wife all wanted him to challenge the vote. It certainly doesn't help that his opponent's Secretary of State, Colin Powell was giving big hints that something was wrong by pointing a diplomatic finger at the rigged election in the Ukraine in which the exit polls provided the smoking gun. And it absolutely did not help that between one quarter and one third of the American people were convinced by December 2004 that the Ohio 2004 election was stolen based upon evidence uncovered by internet and non mainstream media journalists.

Here are the many ways in which John Kerry had to have at least suspected that something was amiss in Ohio.

1. Before the votes were even cast on election day 2004, Bush Campaign Chair in Ohio and GOP Secretary of State Ken Blackwell attempted to keep all exit pollsters more than 100 yards from the exit polls. The news agencies got an emergency injunction and were able to do their exit polls in their usual manner. The distance which Blackwell wanted to enforce is important. If you study exit poll scientific literature, you find that the reliability of polls decreases as the distance between pollsters and the polls increases. At the distance Blackwell chose, the polls would have lost all validity. In other words, Blackwell had been instructed by Karl Rove to make exit polls in Ohio unreliable so that when there was a discrepancy (which Rove knew there would be) he could blame it on the polls. Anyone who noted that news story that morning, knew that the fix was in.

2. The exit polls. Though all the news networks faithfully withheld their exit polls (they wanted Bush re-elected for the favors his FCC had promised, especially for the media expansion ruling appeal to the SCOTUS) the polls were leaked, and so we all saw that the polls did not match the final votes.

3. Actions taken by Blackwell such as purges of lawful voters, lack of equal access to voting machines all pointed to systemic disenfranchisement of Democratic voters.

4. Irregularities at Republican controlled precincts. Doors sealed in violation of the law. Greater than 100% turn out.

These were all reported on election day or before.

Kerry decided that it was about him . If he could not be sure that he would emerge the winner of an election challenge, then he did not want to risk seeming like a loser.

In fact, it was about each and every voter who had his or her vote tossed into a shredder somewhere. Whether the outcome of the election was changed, if an investigation had caught people engaged in election fraud and resulted in changes of the system to prevent these kinds of abuses from happening again, it would have been a victory.

Because Kerry did not choose to fight for the rights of disenfranchised voters, the only election reform that Ohio saw were the pathetic hearings in which Bill Frist's attorney brought in witnesses who lied that the NAACP had given out crack cocaine to encourage Blacks to vote. This resulted in draconian voting legislation for the state of Ohio, designed to further suppress the vote, in a futile effort on the part of the GOP to keep the state red.

So, don't try to trash the Edwards for something that John Kerry and John Kerry alone chose to do.

http://www.grandtheftelectionohio.com/050221.htm
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. I wish one of these crooks would crack. That's why Rove went after the AGs.
You can't have too many people with specific knowledge of what went on in Florida and Ohio - some key Diebold folks, Blackwell in Ohio, Jeb Bush in Florida, and a few other officials. Too much risk that somebody may crack and spill the beans. That's why Rove went after the AGs - to put people in place who will disenfranchise voters. That didn't work out so well, so I wonder what Rove is out there doing to "take care" of the election in 2008. Ohio will be tough to rig with the Dems in control. Florida not as reliable with Jeb gone. In fact, I am one of those who question an election taking place in 2008 - unless the Bush cabal can assure that it's rigged for their chosen candidate, they will take the alternative risk of martial law, probably after another attack on us and after one on Iran early next year.
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weeve Donating Member (427 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. Ummmmm ...
Haven't you been paying attention ? Hillary IS their chosen candidate !
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
2. I didn't want Kerry for a candidate. I voted for Dean.
I knew he wouldn't stand up and fight. He didn't stand up to the swiftboat liars.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I agree -- but wait for some DUers to start screaming: "He did too!"
In reality he waited way too long to fight back. And then in Ohio he folded like an origami crane.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. I don't need to scream - it is merely the fact.
DNC didn't back Kerry up very well, did they? Let's see, who was running the DNC then, and where is he now? (Hint: Terry McAuliffe; Clinton campaign.) Hmmm.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Neither do I, but you need
to check out the facts. Or you can continue screaming "he folded like a(n) (insert silly analogy here)."


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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Lets just start 2004 primary wars again right?JK has fought for us all his life
and if you notice he is still fighting for us. Both Howard Dean and John Kerry are good guys who fight for us every day.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. Ok! Wes Clark's the ONLY candidate who can beat the
Republicans. Swing-vote Bubbas in the South and mid-West would vote for him. I don't see them voting for any other Democrat...

Wait...

That's still true, even though Wes isn't running.

:crazy:
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
23. Thank you! n/t
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. I agree the exit polls are where the problem was. Anybody, not just voters
could get in there and answer faultily if they wished.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
5. This is complete rubbish and only an excuse to trash John Kerry.
Neither Kerry or Edwards deserve to be trashed for this.It does not matter if something is stolen if you can't "prove" it.There was no evidence and there was not going to "be" any evidence released within the mandated time limit. Ohio padlocked the voting machines and wouldn't release them. AFAIK, they never have released them.Ken Blackwell wasn't exactly cooperative, if you recall. Month after the election Kerry/Edwards were still litigating in the Ohio Courts , which were stacked with GOP judges. They made no headway. The judges did not even want to hear the cases. Exactly how would you have compelled Ohio to cough up the evidence? And do you seriously believe you could have won a suit without "proof"?
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Rageneau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
7. This is why I'll never again support Kerry ... or Gore.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. BS! Did Edwards fight? In fact one of the Edwardses lied,
Edited on Sat Oct-06-07 03:07 PM by ProSense
either http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1989313&mesg_id=1989313">Elizabeth or John

Did the DNC fight?

Where is a valid poll from 2004 that shows 25% of Americans believe the 2004 election was stolen?

Did Americans take to the streets to demand their votes be counted?

Kerry is not your savior, go trash the people who could have supported his efforts!
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maximusveritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
9. If the Edwards knew this, why didn't they say anything at the time?
Is it worse to not know or to know and say nothing?
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
24. Because it's called the "Blame everything on Kerry" game instead of a
Edited on Sat Oct-06-07 04:40 PM by politicasista
weak, inept DNC chairman, an unorganized Ohio Democratic party, and leaders that didn't support their own when it mattered. And there are other words: positioning and desperation.




edit for words.
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
10. "if an investigation had caught people engaged in election fraud"
There was and they did.

What are you complaining about?

Did you think Kerry would somehow become President? If so, PLEASE CITE THE LAW that would enable that to happen.

You won't, because you can't. There is NO WAY Kerry would have become President. So what was the point of the fight? To investigate? But of course, they did! There were several lawsuits, and Conyers' investigation. What else, specifically, should have been done? How would it have changed the outcome of the vote?

So WTF is your problem? And what is Elizabeth Edwards whining about? What has she and John Edwards actually DONE to fight for election integrity?

If election integrity is your issue, maybe you ought to look at the candidate who has actually accomplished something in that area - Bill Richardson. (instituted paper ballots in NM after the 2004 debacle). Since Edwards has done NOTHING, NADA, ZILCH - surely you can't support him.
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dugggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
13. Why not decide elections based on exit polls instead of the
rigged voting machines? We will get fairer and more accurate elections.
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weeve Donating Member (427 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Which is why ...
Which is why Big Media announced they'd be doing away with the exit polling after those inconvenient results in 2004.
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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. WTF?
We don't have to speculate that this is wrong: we know that there were exit polls in 2006. Hell, there's a whole article that purports to use them to prove that the Democrats were robbed of dozens of seats. (Here is my critique of it.)
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
16. Bullocks! It's as though people think Kerry had supernatural powers...
Where was the Democratic Party? Where was the DLC? Where were other democratic leaders? They ran into the hills or quietly chortled at the possibility of running in 2008.

Why not attack James Carville for telling his wife the Kerry strategy on Ohio and thus informing the Bush/Cheney team to contact Blackwell and tweak the absentee ballot numbers?

The media had a lockdown on any chances of investigating the voting discrepancies on November 3rd. An investigation that would have reliable, bullet-proof evidence was still months away. A lot of evidence was destroyed.

Fantasizing that the mainstream media would not have turned heavily on Kerry is just that...pure fantasy. This shoulda, woulda, coulda crap probably feels good to interject, but the evidence at the time and the pressure to make the race "over" firmly pointed at making Kerry concede.



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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Thank You!
It's fun for people to do Rove's work for him rather than see the truth. :applause:
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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
19. fact check
Though all the news networks faithfully withheld their exit polls (they wanted Bush re-elected for the favors his FCC had promised, especially for the media expansion ruling appeal to the SCOTUS) the polls were leaked...

It's common knowledge that CNN.com posted exit poll tabulations for each state as the polls closed -- hence all those famous screen shots. How can anyone possibly say that "all the news networks faithfully withheld" the results? :shrug:
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
20. Interesting timing. Usualy after Kerry makes news or gives a speech
Edited on Sat Oct-06-07 04:37 PM by politicasista
that the bashers come out in force. I think people are still scared of the Senator, even if he isn't running. :rofl:


:boring:
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Febble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
22. Nope
Edited on Sat Oct-06-07 04:36 PM by Febble
(weirdness with post) - deleted
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-07-07 01:55 AM
Response to Original message
25. K&R
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