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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 06:32 PM
Original message
The media fact check hypes Hillary on SCHIP; ignores bill written by Kerry (Kennedy co-sponsor)
Edited on Sat Oct-06-07 06:36 PM by ProSense
104th CONGRESS

2d Session

S. 2186

To provide access to health care insurance coverage for children.

IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

October 1, 1996

Mr. KERRY (for himself and Mr. KENNEDY) introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on Labor and Human Resources

more



Clinton claims credit for child program

By BETH FOUHY, Associated Press Writer Sat Oct 6, 7:09 AM ET

NEW YORK - When she talks about health care reform on the campaign trail, Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton points to a multibillion-dollar health insurance program for children as one of her signature accomplishments.

The program, enacted in 1997, has provided $24 billion over 10 years to states to cover more than 6 million children whose families earn too much to be eligible for Medicaid but cannot afford private health insurance.

<...>

FACT CHECK:

<...>

On Dec. 9, 1996, senior White House health adviser Chris Jennings sent a memo to the first lady outlining several options — and recommending ways for her to increase her visibility on the issue.

With his wife's backing, President Clinton announced a plan to expand health coverage to as many as 5 million children in his 1997 State of the Union address.

more


Senator Kerry was there at the beginning of the fight to provide the largest investment in children’s health care since the creation of Medicaid. His 1996 bill, the “Healthy Children, Family Assistance Health Insurance Program,” was the precursor to the successful SCHIP program, which became law in 1997 and provides funding to cover 5 million children.

link


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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hillary is soon the be crowned Queen, with Bill as Prince Consort.
That should complete the Republic's transformation into a dynastic succession nation.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. Clarification of Clinton and SCHIP...
Fact Check: Clinton and Kids' Insurance

By BETH FOUHY – 22 hours ago

NEW YORK (AP) — When she talks about health care reform on the campaign trail, Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton points to a multibillion-dollar health insurance program for children as one of her signature accomplishments.

The program, enacted in 1997, has provided $24 billion over 10 years to states to cover more than 6 million children whose families earn too much to be eligible for Medicaid but cannot afford private health insurance.

While it has enjoyed broad support on Capitol Hill, President Bush this week vetoed legislation that would have vastly expanded the program's reach.

THE CLAIM:

Clinton claims significant credit for helping launch the effort — formally the state Children's Health Care Insurance Program — as first lady during her husband's second term. Her new television ads prominently mention it as evidence of her long-term commitment to health care and children.

"She changed the lives of 6 million kids when she championed the bill that gave them health insurance," says one ad. "Hillary stood up for universal health care when almost no one else would, and kept standing until 6 million kids had coverage," says another.

Is she justified in claiming so much credit?

FACT CHECK:

After the first lady's effort to enact universal health insurance went down to calamitous defeat in late 1994, she and other White House officials began looking for smaller changes that could win bipartisan support. Republicans had taken control of both the House and Senate that year.

A similar effort was taking place on Capitol Hill, with Sen. Edward Kennedy playing a lead role. One area he and the Clintons explored involved expanding health insurance coverage to children who had none.

On Dec. 9, 1996, senior White House health adviser Chris Jennings sent a memo to the first lady outlining several options — and recommending ways for her to increase her visibility on the issue.

With his wife's backing, President Clinton announced a plan to expand health coverage to as many as 5 million children in his 1997 State of the Union address.

Kennedy, meanwhile, introduced legislation based on a Massachusetts model with Utah Sen. Orrin Hatch as the lead Republican co-sponsor. The bill called for $20 billion in grants to states, paid for in part by raising the federal tax on cigarettes.

Gene Sperling, a Hillary Clinton campaign adviser who served as one of President Clinton's lead budget negotiators in 1997, said efforts to include children's health coverage were constrained by a balanced budget agreement between the White House and Republican congressional leaders.

But he said Hillary Clinton pushed hard and even favored boosting the price tag to $24 billion, instead of the $16 billion that had been floated as a compromise.

"Her office was across from mine, and I knew what her priorities were," Sperling said. "I remember her having a lot of influence — you're getting this done because you know the first lady wants it."

The effort nearly went off the rails when Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott, a Republican, said it violated the balanced budget agreement. President Clinton, eager to preserve the agreement, actually phoned lawmakers to kill the legislation when it came to the Senate floor.

Hillary Clinton defended her husband's action at the time. "He had to safeguard the overall budget proposal," she told one audience. But she insisted he would find other ways to provide health coverage for kids.

The effort was revived, with Kennedy, Hatch and a coalition of advocacy groups ranging from the Children's Defense Fund to the Girl Scouts lobbying hard. Kennedy made a special appeal to the first lady, who added her pressure anew.

"The children's health program wouldn't be in existence today if we didn't have Hillary pushing for it from the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue," Kennedy told The Associated Press.

President Clinton signed the bill in August 1997.

While Kennedy is widely viewed as the driving force behind the program, by all accounts the former first lady's pressure was crucial.

"She wasn't a legislator, she didn't write the law, and she wasn't the president, so she didn't make the decisions," says Nick Littlefield, then a senior health adviser to Kennedy. "But we relied on her, worked with her and she was pivotal in encouraging the White House to do it."


Associated Press Writer Andrew DeMillo in Little Rock, Ark., contributed to this report.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hOOyd7DUPKM4G2Pd019mg-KEr6NQD8S38JB80
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Fact check: Kerry and Kennedy were legislators
Kerry wrote the initial bill, which Kennedy co-sponsored. Kennedy used that bill to craft bi-partisan legislation with Hatch.

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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. Good for Kennedy and Hatch..
and the Clintons..

thansk for the reminder, though..
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. I would congratulate Kennedy, Hatch, Kerry and Dodd -
the latter 2 co-sponsored.

The Clintons kind of canceled each other out here. Hillary Clinton's biggest accomplishment was keeping her husband from opposing it - what kind of Democrat would not back this.

Kerry wrote a substantial amount of it. Hatch in his speech spoke of how this was not a Hillary program. He also explained that it differed from Kerry/Kennedy because it was not an entitlement and the states were given more flexibility. Kennedy spoke of Kerry's contribution often in 2004.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
3. "Fact" Fact CHeck...
"The children's health program wouldn't be in existence today if we didn't have Hillary pushing for it from the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue," Kennedy told The Associated Press.

President Clinton signed the bill in August 1997.

While Kennedy is widely viewed as the driving force behind the program, by all accounts the former first lady's pressure was crucial.

"She wasn't a legislator, she didn't write the law, and she wasn't the president, so she didn't make the decisions," says Nick Littlefield, then a senior health adviser to Kennedy. "But we relied on her, worked with her and she was pivotal in encouraging the White House to do it."


http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hOOyd7DUPKM4G2Pd019mg-KEr6NQD8S38JB80
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
5. surprise another negative Clinton post that is inaccurate and manipulated
to put Clinton in a bad light.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. No, this is about media hype, and
giving credit where credit is due!
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Zandor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. This is about a trumped up headline
and another anti-Hillary thread going up in smoke.

Next!
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. The OP just wants others to get the credit and respect they deserve also
Edited on Sat Oct-06-07 08:03 PM by politicasista
Nobody is bashing Hillary.
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Zandor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. So the OP is suddenly nostalgic
Edited on Sat Oct-06-07 08:10 PM by Zandor
for Kennedy and Kerry's work on this? Or does the timing have more to do with Hillary and seeing her get less credit?


Sorry, but the tone of a few posts in this thread, including the OP and it's title, make it clear the upshot is dissing Hillary.

Look at post 4 and tell me that isn't the OP's intent in thsi thread.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. It likely has to do with the fact that Hillary consistently
exaggerates her role.

She was an important ally - mostly because the President was dragging his feet.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Oh nonsense! n/t
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-08-07 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #15
48. No - it's not, it's an attempt to give credit where it is due for a major accomplishment
Hillary does deserve credit for being a White House ally, but the people who deserve more credit are the 2 Senators from MA, who designed the plan and wrote the original llegislation and Hatch and Kennedy for finding changes to get enough support.

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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. Clarification - She convinced Bill Clinton to support it.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
8. K&R
The MSM made Bush appear without warts and bigger than what he was, giving him sole credit for work done by many others. They are doing it again!
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
9. Republicans can get all their research for free on DU
They can simply use the "search" function and make all the ads they need. :D

I'm just being a bit sarcastic, don't get all bent out of shape ;)
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
41. How could the Republicans use this?
By claiming Hillary did not have anything to do with crafting the legislation? The answer to that is easy - she was not a legislator, but she was crucial to its passage by lobbying her husband to keep it. No one disagrees with that.

I didn't see similar concerns that the Republicans would use true information posted here in 2004 against Kerry.
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globalvillage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
10. Kerry and Kennedy floor speeches
STATEMENTS ON INTRODUCED BILLS AND JOINT RESOLUTIONS (Senate - October 01, 1996)

Mr. KERRY. Mr. President, I am proud to introduce legislation today, joined by my friend, colleague, and esteemed senior Senator, Ted Kennedy, to help ensure that the 10 million uninsured children in this country get the health care they need and their parents get the peace of mind they deserve.

Mr. President, the fact is that most of these 10 million uninsured children have parents who work--90 percent of these uninsured children have parents who work, according to the General Accounting Office . And three out of five of these children have parents who work fulltime during the entire year.

Unfortunately, the problem of uninsured children is getting worse, not better--each year, more than 1 million additional children lose private insurance. No parent should have to choose between medicine for a sick child and food for the family. The thought of a mother and father, working hard to make ends meet, waking up in the middle of the night with a child in pain, and waiting to see if the pain passes because they cannot afford to go to the hospital, is a stark image of a national tragedy. Mr. President, American children without health care are alone in the world--we are the only Western industrialized nation that does not provide health care for every child.

I am proposing today with Senator Kennedy a voluntary subsidy program to help working families to purchase private health insurance for their children. Only families with incomes too high to qualify for Medicaid would be eligible to receive these vouchers. Participation in the voucher program would be voluntary. The premium subsidy would be provided on a sliding scale with families earning 185 percent or less of the poverty line receiving the full subsidy; the subsidy would phase down so that families earning more than 300 percent of the poverty line would not receive a subsidy. Cost-sharing would be limited but everyone would pay something. The proposal includes a comprehensive benefits package with a full range of the essential services needed by children. The total cost of the plan is $24 billion over 5 years and is paid for by a combination of cuts in corporate welfare and a tobacco tax increase. Although it is apparent there is no chance the plan will be enacted this year, with Congress now in its final hour before adjourning prior to the election, we are introducing it as a bill today because we want to place this issue prominently on the national agenda during the next few months preceding convening of the 105th Congress.

Mr. President, I want to discuss 2 of the 10 million compelling reasons to provide basic health insurance to children who are not covered now.

One of the first reasons is a 13-year-old student in Lynn, MA, named Costa Billias. He played football at Breed Junior High and loved the game, but said, `For the past 2 years I gave my best to football, but my mom explained that we were not insured and if I got hurt we would lose our house and everything we own to pay the hospital.' He quit the team, but he cannot

quit life. If he gets hurt doing something else, his family still stands to lose everything. In addition, I think it is wrong that Costa Billias is being denied the opportunity to play football again.

One more of the 10 million reasons we must pass this bill is the Pierce family. Jim and Sylvia Pierce were married in 1980 and live in Everett, MA. Jim was a plumber and they had three children, Leonard, Brianna, and Alyssa. In October 1993, Sylvia was pregnant with her fourth child when Jim was tragically killed on his way home from the store. In that one horrible minute her life changed forever. She not only lost her husband, but, pregnant and alone, she lost her health insurance as well. Her survivor's benefits made her income too high to qualify for long-term Medicaid, and too low to pay the $400 a month it would take to extend her husband's health plan. Sylvia said, `I've always taken good care of my children. I feed them well; I take them to the doctors immediately when they need it. All of a sudden I couldn't do that anymore.

Mr. President, in addition to the moral imperative, the scientific evidence is overwhelming that lack of health coverage is bad for children, delaying medical care or making it impossible to get. A recent study in JAMA found that children with health coverage gaps were more likely to lack a continuing and regular source of health care--even when factors such as family income, chronic illness, and family mobility were factored out. Numerous studies by university researchers and by government agencies show that the uninsured are less likely to receive preventive care (such as immunizations for children), more likely to go to emergency rooms for their care, more likely to be hospitalized for conditions that could have been avoided with proper preventive care, and more likely to have longer hospital stays than individuals with health insurance coverage.

Mr. President, every hour we wait to take this step, another 114 children lose private health insurance. Every 30 seconds we wait, another child loses private health insurance. America's children cannot wait any longer. Families without insurance are forced to pay the full cost of medical services--an impossible burden for struggling families, one that often takes a back seat to putting food on the table and a roof over the children's heads.

Mr. President, this plan is an important, incremental step toward guaranteeing health coverage for all Americans. I urge my colleagues to support it.

Mr. KENNEDY. Mr. President, it is an honor to join Senator John Kerry in introducing this visionary and practical program. Senator Kerry has been a consistent leader in the Senate in fighting for children, for health care, and for working families. This initiative sets a benchmark for the next Congress and the American people. It is a proposal that is a reflection of true family values.

Every American child deserves a healthy start in life, but too many don't receive it. Seventeen industrialized countries do better at preventing infant mortality than we do. A quarter of American children do not receive basic childhood vaccines. Every day, 636 babies are born to mothers who receive inadequate prenatal care, 56 babies die before they are a month old, and 110 babies die before they are a year old.

Access to affordable health care is one of the greatest problems children face. Ten-and-a-half million children under the age of 19 have no health insurance--one in every seven American children. If it were not for the expansions of Medicaid over the past 5 years, the number would be seven million higher. Under Republican proposals to cut Medicaid, four million children would lose their coverage. Employer-based insurance coverage is eroding. Too many pregnant women--more than 400,000 a year--are uninsured, and lack access to critical prenatal care.

Almost all uninsured children are members of working families. Their parents work hard--40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year. But all their hard work does not buy their children the protection they deserve. Every family should have the right to health security for their children. No parents should fear that the loss of a job or their employer's failure to provide coverage will put their children out of reach of the health care they need.

Health insurance coverage for every child is a needed step in the fight to guarantee health care for every family. The cost is affordable. The benefits are great. The opportunities for bipartisanship are substantial.

The legislation we are introducing today is a simple, practical proposal. It imposes no new government mandates on the States or the private sector. It does not substitute for family responsibility. It fosters it, instead, by assuring that every family has the help it needs to purchase affordable health insurance for their children.

Our plan will establish no massive new Federal bureaucracy. Basic guidelines and financing would come from the Federal Government, but the plan would be implemented and administered by States.

The program will make a major difference in the lives of millions of families, but its basic principles are not novel or untested. Fourteen States already have similar programs in place and running. Earlier their year, for example, Massachusetts enacted a program very similar to our proposal.

Under our plan, the Federal Government will assist all families with incomes under 300 percent of poverty to purchase health insurance for their children, if they do not already receive coverage under an existing public program. Families with incomes under 185 percent of poverty will receive a full subsidy. Families with incomes between 185 percent of and 300 percent of poverty will receive assistance on a sliding scale. Between 80 and 90 percent of all uninsured children live in families with incomes below 300 percent of poverty. Even uninsured families with higher incomes might buy coverage for their children if policies designed for children were available. Families with income under 150 percent of poverty will also receive assistance with the cost of copayments and deductibles. Similar assistance will be provided to uninsured pregnant women.

The program will be administered by States under Federal guidelines. In general, States will contract with private insurance companies to offer children's coverage to any family that wants it. Lower income families will receive assistance with the cost of coverage, but coverage will be available to all families at all income levels. Basic rules will guarantee that coverage is adequate and tailored to the special needs of children, especially the need for comprehensive preventive care.

This plan does not guarantee that every child will have insurance coverage, but it gives the opportunity to every family to cover their children at a cost the family can probably afford. It will be a giant step toward the day when every member of every American family has true health security.

The cost of a similar program has been estimated at $24 billion over 5 years. We propose to finance our plan by a combination of tobacco tax increases and closing corporate tax loopholes. The Nation currently spends close to $1 trillion per year on health care. The additional cost of this proposal is substantial, but it is a needed step toward healthier lives for millions of American children and peace of mind for their parents.

In this Congress, we made substantial progress toward improving the health care system. We turned back extreme proposals to slash Medicare and Medicaid. Working together in a bipartisan way, we were able to pass the Kassebaum-Kennedy Health Insurance Reform Act, take a significant first step toward mental health parity, and protect mothers and infants from premature discharge from the hospital. Every Democratic and Republican health plan in the previous Congress endorsed the idea of subsidizing private insurance coverage for children. This proposal should be a bipartisan health priority for the next Congress. I believe it is an idea whose time has finally come.

source: thomas.loc.gov
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Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Is this what Kennedy refers to when he says "The Massachusetts model"?
This is not the final SCHIPS, is it?
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Of course, it is not.
But what is your point? Ok, we agree: Hillary was the only one who wrote the bill, forced everybody to sign it, and convinced Bill, all that by herself.

Because, at this point, this is what it looks like: the only person who is to be credited is Hillary (may be a little bit Kennedy, because it allows to imply he supports her). For god's sake, a bill is a teamwork. A lot of people are to be credited.
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frazzled Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
12. Well, since the Kerry-Kennedy bill was never passed
(as far as I can tell) in 1996 (it seems never to have made it out of committee), I think we are being totally silly in this argument.

Kerry deserves credit for introducing his bill with Kennedy ... but it wasn't until 1997 that a provision was put into the Balanced Budget Act of 1997 and something really happened. As I understand it, there was a lot of horse-trading between the WH and the Republican-led Congress to get this omnibus bill passed: it is very sweeping. Between the Kerry-Kennedy and the BBA of 1997, there was the Kennedy-Hatch Act.

I have no doubt that Hillary Clinton played a role in helping to get the Children's Insurance provisions into this bill. Ted Kennedy is the one constant behind all these efforts, and if he says so, we should believe him. But all the people who were pushing this for years deserve credit. Tom Daschle had a plan (S.21) that preceded Kerry's and even Arlen Specter had a plan.

Why does this need to be a back-stabbing fight?

For legislative history on S.2186:

http://www.congress.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/D?d104:31:./temp/~bd6rIR::

For comparison of plans, see page 4 of this pdf:

content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/reprint/16/4/64.pdf
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Did somebody say Hillary had nothing to do with the plan.
It seems however, that Hillary's supporters are intent in saying that she is the ONLY one who had something to do with that (except may be Kennedy), and that Kennedy, somehow, has to be grateful forever.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. Please!
Let's get technical about it:

Authored Bill to Assist Parents Care for Children with Special Needs In 1988 & 1989, John Kerry worked to allow parents to receive SSI and Medicaid benefits—regardless of their income and assets—to assist their
children with special needs. At the time, Kerry stated, “The legislation I am introducing today would require that the income deeming rules be waived for severely disabled children allowing them to receive SSI and Medicaid benefits regardless of their parents' income and assets.” (100th Congress, S. 2094; 101st Congress, S. 1070; Congressional Record, 5/18/89)

Expanded Educational Opportunities for Children with Disabilities John Kerry’s 1987 Technology To Educate Children With Handicaps Act was written to establish high technology centers to assist disabled schoolchildren expand their educational opportunities. Kerry said, “the purpose of these centers is to act as a resource so that handicapped children, through the use of technology, can gain more independence in the classroom and more independence in their social activities.” (100th Congress, S. 1586; Congressional Record, 8/3/87)


Stood Up for America's Children. John Kerry wrote the bill that became the foundation for the 1997 State Children's Health Insurance Program (S-CHIP), which provided states with federal funding to help extend health insurance coverage to children whose families do not qualify for Medicaid. He introduced legislation to expand state and local early childhood development efforts, including education, child care and health care for children between birth and six years old. At the end of 2000, a version of this bipartisan legislation was signed into law. To address the needs of America's at-risk youth, John Kerry led the effort to establish the YouthBuild program, which provides young people with basic education toward a diploma and the skills training they need to get a good-paying job. YouthBuild also teaches leadership and civic engagement while providing students with adult mentors who help them overcome personal problems and participate in a supportive community with positive values.


And he's still working at it:

The proposal includes mental health parity in the state CHIP programs so that if a state offers mental health coverage in its CHIP plan, it must be on par with limits for medical and surgical services. Senator Gordon Smith has done a stellar job bringing awareness about the need for mental health benefits for children and this provision is modeled after legislation that he introduced with Senator John Kerry.


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frazzled Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. I don't understand your point
What is this? John Kerry is not running for anything anymore, so I'm not clear on what the point of quoting all this stuff (much of it from Kerry's web site) is for. I made it clear in my post that I certainly respect Kerry's efforts over the years--he was my senator for five of them (though Ted Kennedy was the go-to guy for anything to do with health care in that state; I was very involved with local Democratic politics so I'm quite familiar). But it's also true that many people have contributed legislative plans in the areas of children's health over the years. I linked to a pdf that compares 4 different plans during that era. Hillary Clinton also has a long record of advocating for children's health care. So what.

My point is, what is this argument about?

Does someone get "dibs" on the SCHIPs idea? Because I can tell you, it started before John Kerry. Ideas like this don't spring full-grown from the head of Zeus. That's what government policy is about: ideas getting exchanged, refined, debated, compromised ... and eventually some version passed that is acceptable to all. Let's stop this nonsense. I truly hate election season. It turns everyone into petty little nitpickers, blocking out all the big picture things for little "gotcha" moments. Let's stop this.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. The OP is quite clear!
There is no argument: Hillary helped to influence Bill and Kerry wrote a bill.
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frazzled Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. And I was quite clear
Kerry's bill is not what was passed to create SCHIP (it never even made it to the floor to be voted on)... that was done in the Balanced Budget Act of 1997. And there were at least 3 other children's health care bills that were attempted to be introduced (Daschle's, Kerry's, Specter's ... and the eventual provisions included in the omnibus Balanced Budget Act). I'm not denigrating Kerry's effort ... it was a part of the overall push at the time ... but it is not SCHIP, either.

The point that everyone has to remember is this: bills get proposed all the time. Many fail. You have to get them ENACTED for them to mean anything. If Hillary Clinton helped get those provisions approved in the massive and contentious Balanced Budget Act that her husband had to negotiate with the Republic-led Congress in 1997, then kudos to her as well. Everybody's happy. Everybody wins.

Trying to take Hillary down a peg on this seems really juvenile and stupid, especially when nobody seems to have any facts.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #25
34. The NYT article on S-CHIP gives the history and Kerry/Kennedy was the root of it
"But even with the success of the Kassebaum-Kennedy bill, the best that Mr. Kennedy and other supporters of child health insurance had expected at the start of the 105th Congress was that they could put the issue back on the political map.

Not long before last fall's elections, Mr. Kennedy and John F. Kerry, the junior Democratic Senator from Massachusetts, introduced a bill that proposed paying for health insurance for uninsured children through a tobacco tax, a law that was already in place in their state. Throughout the fall and into the end of 1996, Mr. Kennedy notified a string of Republican senators in an effort to bring them aboard, among them John H. Chafee of Rhode Island, Mike DeWine of Ohio, John McCain of Arizona and Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania.

The common link among those Republicans, a Democratic aide said, was that ''they had voted against the tobacco lobby in the past and they were open to children's health insurance.''

Mr. Kennedy ultimately teamed with Mr. Hatch, a conservative with whom the liberal from Massachusetts had worked closely in the past and whose Mormon beliefs had made him an ardent foe of tobacco and supporter of children's legislation. "

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=980DEFDC113CF932A2575BC0A961958260&sec=health&spon=&pagewanted=2

This article did credit Hillary for pushing when Bill Clinton seemed to get cold feet.

Another earlier story spoke of Kennedy and Kerry wanting to take the MA idea to the national level

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B02E3DA1231F93BA15751C0A961958260&sec=health&spon=&pagewanted=2
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frazzled Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. "Mr. Kennedy ... was the major political driving force behind the effort"
" along with Senator Orrin G. Hatch, Republican of Utah, whom he enlisted in early January."

That's what the article says, with Kerry mentioned merely as the "junior senator from Massachusetts" who co-sponsored one early version with Kennedy. Having lived in MA, I can tell you that Kennedy spearheaded every effort in this (and most other) regards.

So if Kennedy tells us Clinton was crucial, what's the big deal? Why the John Kerry slavishness? I maintain: many people, including Arlen Specter and Orrin Hatch, two people whose politics I normally despise, are also responsible. I give them credit as well.

As for Clinton's "cold feet," this was due to fear of the whole Budget Act--which had far more than this children's health provision in it--imploding due to Republican resistance. Clinton knew how to get things done ... Hillary prodded him not to give up on the health-care aspect of it. She deserves credit. End of story.

This is so a non-issue. I hereby end my participation in the discussion, because it has nothing to do with expanding health-care coverage: only bashing Hillary Clinton. That gets us nowhere.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. I said in several posts that Kennedy was the driving force
Edited on Sat Oct-06-07 11:44 PM by karynnj
I realize that Spector and Daschle had bills - they were not that closely related to this. It was not ONE early bill on it, it was THE early bill.

Of course Kerry is identified as the junior Senator and he was. Kennedy himself has given Kerry substantial credit on the initial bill. Why do you think that it was referred to as Kerry/Kennedy by Hatch in his speech.

Why are you willing to give credit to Hillary Clinton, but not to Kerry, who did more work on it.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #22
32. He is running for Senate -
Kerry and Kennedy both said it was modeled on the program that passed the MA legislature over Weld's veto. I have no idea who created the Massachusetts legislation.

Here is a NYT article that gives the history of the bill. As you can see, the Kerry/Kennedy bill was the origin of this bill.

"But even with the success of the Kassebaum-Kennedy bill, the best that Mr. Kennedy and other supporters of child health insurance had expected at the start of the 105th Congress was that they could put the issue back on the political map.

Not long before last fall's elections, Mr. Kennedy and John F. Kerry, the junior Democratic Senator from Massachusetts, introduced a bill that proposed paying for health insurance for uninsured children through a tobacco tax, a law that was already in place in their state. Throughout the fall and into the end of 1996, Mr. Kennedy notified a string of Republican senators in an effort to bring them aboard, among them John H. Chafee of Rhode Island, Mike DeWine of Ohio, John McCain of Arizona and Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania.

The common link among those Republicans, a Democratic aide said, was that ''they had voted against the tobacco lobby in the past and they were open to children's health insurance.''

Mr. Kennedy ultimately teamed with Mr. Hatch, a conservative with whom the liberal from Massachusetts had worked closely in the past and whose Mormon beliefs had made him an ardent foe of tobacco and supporter of children's legislation. "

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=980DEFDC113CF932A2575BC0A961958260&sec=health&spon=&pagewanted=1

I think the argument is that via this logic, Hillary Clinton can claim every popular piece of legislation passed whan Clinton was President.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #12
30. That ignores that bill often encorporate other bills
Kerry/Kennedy was written in late 1996 - in early 1997, Kennedy took it and compromised with Hatch to get a bill that would pass a Republican Senate. A substantial amount of the bill written in 1996 was used as the basis for the 1997 S-Chip bill. Kerry and Dadd were co-sponsors. Hatch in his S-CHIP speech actually explains how this bill differs from Kerry/Kennedy - the other bills are not mentioned. Kennedy said Kerry/Kennedy was the bill that he started with.

I agree that Kennedy was by far the person most responsible. He worked out the compromise with Hatch and Kerry was a co-sponsor.

The reason for the comments is that Hillary's various official websites have said things like she initiated it, she created it etc. If anyone could claim that it is Kennedy.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
21. Kerry on the floor in August

08/01/2007
Kerry: America's Children Deserve Full SCHIP Funding

Kerry Amendment Will Fund SCHIP to $50 billion

WASHINGTON D.C. – Today, Senator John Kerry made the following remarks on the floor of the Senate. Kerry introduced his amendment to fully fund SCHIP to $50 billion over 5 years – the level originally allocated in the budget. The additional $15 billion proposed by Kerry’s amendment is paid for by rolling back the Bush tax cuts for those making more than $1 million a year and would impact only two-tenths of one-percent of taxpayers.

Kerry’s amendment is supported by ACORN, American Academy of Nursing, American Academy of Pediatrics, American Federation of Labor-Congress of Industrial Organizations, Association of Maternal and Child Health Programs, American Medical Student Association, Child Neurology Society, Child Welfare League of America, Children’s Defense Fund, Children’s Dental Health Project, The Children’s Health Fund, The Children’s Partnership, Coalition on Human Needs, Easter Seals, FamiliesUSA, First Focus, National Assembly on School-Based Health Care, National Association for Children’s Behavioral Health, National Association of County and City Health Officials, National Association of Pediatric Nurse Practitioners, PICO National Network, SEIU and Voices for America’s Children.

Below are Kerry’s remarks as prepared for delivery:

First, I’d like to extend a much-deserved thank you to my colleagues on the Finance Committee – Senators Baucus, Grassley, Rockefeller, and Hatch – who have shown such tremendous leadership in bringing this bill to the floor this week. This legislation is good for our nation’s children. Though I hope we can come together to do more, I will support this bill. And as we debate the future of children’s health care today, I want to honor the work of Senator Kennedy, whose visionary leadership helped create S-CHIP in 1997 and whose tireless bridge-building has helped sustain the program ever since.

Mr. President: This week, Washington has a great opportunity to extend health insurance to millions of children who lack coverage today.

Our choices here will have a major impact on families across the country. The real face of this debate doesn’t belong to a Senator or the President or a health-care bureaucrat somewhere— it belongs to people like 9-year-old Alexsiana Lewis and her mother Dedra, from Springfield, Massachusetts. Alexsiana was losing her vision due to a rare eye disease, and her mother Dedra lost her health insurance when she cut back her hours to care for her daughter. Listen to what Dedra said:

“If I didn’t have MassHealth right now,”—S-CHIP funded health care—“my daughter would be blind.”

Do we really want to leave children to go blind? Do we really want to leave our families hoping to dodge a bullet – one that comes in the form of an illness they can’t afford to treat or a doctor’s bill they can’t afford to pay?

At a moment when people across the country are losing faith in Washington, this is a moment for this Democratic Congress to remind the voters why they sent us here: to deliver on our promises and get things done that improve the lives of America’s families.

We should be building on the success of a wildly popular bipartisan program like the State Children’s Health Insurance Program. And, outside of the Administration, Republicans and Democrats alike, in overwhelming numbers support spending more money on children’s health.

This should be easy—and the proposal reported out of the Finance Committee represents a solid start toward addressing the moral and economic injustice of leaving 9 million children uninsured in the richest country in the world.

It also includes a provision I authored with Senators Smith, Kennedy, and Domenici to ensure mental health parity in the S-CHIP program. Parity for mental health treatment is a significant, much-needed improvement to S-CHIP. Instead of discriminating against mental health—which is effectively what we’re doing now—we can offer services that improve children’s performance in school, keep them out of trouble and the juvenile justice system, and lead to better lives filled with greater opportunity and promise. This is a good investment—it can literally transform a young person’s life.

The bill has many good and important provisions—but $35 billion over five years is far too little for such an important national priority. I believe that we must fight for a better option, and I ask my colleagues today to support an amendment I’m offering that would add $50 billion to S-CHIP and Medicaid over the next 5 years.

How do we pay for it? Well, we pay for the $35 billion in the current bill by raising federal taxes on cigarettes to one dollar per pack. This tax itself will save adults’ lives as well as children’s—and, by reducing smoking-related illnesses, it will as well save our states money. How do we pay for the extra $15 billion that I propose we spend? By rolling back tax cuts for those earning more than a million dollars a year. We’re presenting Congress with a simple and obvious choice: tax cuts for millionaires or insurance for over a million uninsured children?

If we, as senators, don’t stand for insuring every child in America, then what do we stand for? If America can spend $10 billion each month in Iraq, surely we can also spend $10 billion each year on children’s health. I would like to be able to tell a father in Fall River who was laid off when the Quake Fabric Plant closed that his child matters to us here in Washington. I’d like to be able to tell a Farmer in Hadley who is barely scraping by that his child deserves access to health care too.

Meanwhile, the President is threatening to veto the new money for S-CHIP—even at $35 billion. When it comes to insuring all of America’s children, Congress and the White House should not be offering the voters a choice between doing too little and doing nothing at all.

Troublingly, this President has recently launched a disinformation campaign to denounce this bill as a larger Democratic strategy or plot to massively expand federalized medicine. He stubbornly pledged to veto this bill - before he had even read it. Apparently, confronted with a bipartisan compromise to extend health care coverage to half of the 9 million American children without insurance today, the president sees only a vast, left-wing conspiracy.

The S-CHIP program is not some Democratic plot to socialize, or “federalize” medicine. First off, S-CHIP – like Medicaid before it – is a federal-state partnership. Using partial funding from Washington, each state has broad flexibility in how it structures and implements its S-CHIP program.

Another misleading statement we’ve heard is that S-CHIP is a Democratic Trojan Horse for socialized medicine—Of course it’s not. It was passed in 1997 by a Republican Congress run by Newt Gingrich and Trent Lott, working with President Clinton. Since 1997, when Senators Kennedy and Hatch worked across the aisle to launch this program, more Republican Governors have implemented and expanded S-CHIP than Democrats. If S-CHIP is a Democratic plot, then why do so many Republican governors support it? Take Indiana, for example. The Republican governor, Mitch Daniels - Bush’s former budget chief - recently expanded eligibility for S-CHIP to 300% of the federal poverty level, or roughly $60,000 for a family of four.

The President claims that new S-CHIP funding would push families like these from private insurance to government health care. But Mitch Daniels and other Republican governors understand that simply isn’t the case for most families. With the cost of private insurance for that same family approaching $12,000 per year, the real choice most eligible families face is this: S-CHIP or no health care at all.

In fact, the National Governors Association just this past week sent yet another bipartisan letter to the President stating their support for the “bipartisan reauthorization bill that provides increased funding” for S-CHIP now moving through the Senate.

And finally, S-CHIP is not government-run health care, either. The vast majority of S-CHIP and Medicaid enrollees receive their coverage through private insurance plans working under contract with the states to administer benefits. Far from socialized medicine, S-CHIP represents the type of common-sense public/private partnership that should be a model for broader health care reform.

Mr. President, we all know what matters to families in this debate. For parents, nothing is more important than the health of their children, and nothing more frightening than the fear that when a child gets sick, a visit to the doctor is out of reach.

Our families are scared they won’t have adequate care for their kids, and what is this President’s response? He says, well, everyone has access to health care—just send your kids to the emergency room. Hospitalized children without health insurance are twice as likely to die from their injuries as those with coverage, and uninsured kids are only half as likely to receive any medical care in a given year. Is there anyone here who has ever been responsible for caring for a child, who honestly thinks this is a good way to do business? To ask the least well off among us to get their basic health care in the emergency room?

Our families are afraid that their children are vulnerable. But what is the President worried about? Tobacco companies and HMOs. He’s threatening to veto this bill because he’s afraid that insuring a million more children will move a fraction of them from private insurance to government-financed programs – the so-called “crowd out” effect. I find that strange given that economists estimate that nearly 80% of the benefits from the President’s health tax proposal would go to those who already have insurance. Not to mention that experts estimate that the rate of crowd out in the Medicare Prescription Drug Plan is up to two-thirds.

Ultimately, this decision boils down to a question of priorities—not ideology, as the President would have you believe. Washington politicians like to talk about values, but here’s a simple test of who actually values families: how much is it worth to you to insure every child in America? The President says he has made his decision, but I urge him to reconsider a deeply misguided veto of legislation that would help America’s children.

This is also a test for Democrats. We must not bend to pressure from the White House or from special interests. We must not be afraid to spend the money necessary—and I believe that’s no less than $50 billion—to enroll millions of children who lack insurance today.

I realize that Senators Baucus and Rockefeller negotiated the best bipartisan package they could, and I commend them for doing so—but it’s just not enough.

I believe we have come up short on the amount of additional money we are investing in S-CHIP and Medicaid—which means we are also coming up short on the number of low-income children who can receive life-changing health insurance coverage. And that is simply unacceptable. We can, and we should, be investing at least $50 billion –$15 billion more than the Finance Committee’s package—the amount we agreed upon just a few short months ago in our bipartisan budget resolution. The best way to finance those extra $15 billion is to roll back the top rate cuts for people making over a million dollars a year. As I recall, those people did pretty well back in the 1990s—before the Bush tax cuts took effect.

What do those additional $15 billion buy? Coverage for more than 1 million additional low-income, uninsured children. The current package reaches 3.3 million uninsured kids, but my amendment raises that number to approximately half of the 9 million children lacking insurance today. This amendment helps states enroll the lowest-income uninsured children by increasing bonus payments available to states that meet or surpass their enrollment targets.

This new investment is aimed at the poorest of the uninsured, those eligible for—but not yet enrolled in—Medicaid. The President says he is concerned that the government is stealing clients from private insurance. But what about these low-income kids? These children truly have no other option.

This body has allotted a great deal of money—in the form of tax breaks, spending provisions, and wasteful spending left intact—to various causes, some more noble than others. And so I repeat: this is a matter of priorities, and what is more important than children’s health?

If Alternative Minimum Tax relief is extended, tax cuts for those with cash income of $1 million, that will cost $43 billion in 2007 alone. Compare that with $10 billion each year for S-CHIP.

We’ve refused to close a loophole in our tax on poor fuel economy that rewards gas-guzzling SUV manufacturers with $13 billion annually.
Unless we reform Medicare Advantage – a program I support by the way – we will overpay private plans by more than $50 billion over the next five years, require traditional Medicare beneficiaries to subsidize those in Medicare Advantage, and reduce Medicare solvency by two years.

My amendment is fully paid for, in accordance with PAYGO, by restoring the top marginal tax rate to pre-2001 levels on taxable income in excess of $1 million. This would impact just two-tenths of one-percent of taxpayers with positive tax liability.

The President hasn’t always talked this way about children’s health care. In 2004, when this President accepted his party’s nomination at the 2004 Republican Convention, he said, “in a new term, we will lead an aggressive effort to enroll millions of poor children who are eligible but not signed up for government health insurance programs. We will not allow a lack of attention, or information, to stand between these children and the health care they need.”

Today the President opposes more funds for S-CHIP and Medicaid, yet supports continuing overpayments to private plans in Medicare. He says he’s standing on principle, but it just defies logic. What principle could justify standing in the way of providing health coverage to a million more American children?

Today the president calls a $35 billion investment in children’s health care a massive expansion of federalized medicine. I call it a good start.

I urge my colleagues to join Senators Bingaman, Sanders, Casey, Menendez, Durbin, Reed of Rhode Island, Brown, and Whitehouse who have cosponsored this amendment, and the dozens of national organizations who have endorsed it – including health care providers, child and family advocates, labor, and faith-based networks, from ACORN to Voices for America’s Children.

I urge my colleagues to make a bipartisan down payment of no less than $50 billion toward heath care coverage for all of our children.


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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
24. Thank you Kerry and Kennedy for Schip.
I was thinking that Kerry was one of the main sponsors of this. Thanks for clearing it up.
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frazzled Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Slapping self on head
The Kerry-Kennedy Bill was NOT SCHIP! It never made it to the floor of the Senate. It was a precursor bill that got buried in committee ... but not the bill that created SCHIP. Sheesh.

Sorry for the frustration ... I just feel like it's useless to post facts and links, because nobody ever seems to read them.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Perhaps if you can compare the language of the original Kerry/Kennedy bill
with the language of the bill passed in 1997, that would be very helpful. The point, I think, is that somebody comes up with an idea, and is able to get people to sign on to that idea. For some reason, Kerry's ideas are often adopted, but usually without his name on it when the bill finally passes. Perhaps you can understand the frustration to many of his supporters, who see all of his hard work which also included persuading colleagues, only to see other people credited, and him not credited. Other examples are the anti-terror finance laws in the Patriot Act which Kerry authored after shutting down BCCI in the early '90s. Also, his work on Agent Orange. Finally, an example I am very familiar with is the 2006 Kerry/Feingold amendment which called for a timetable for withdrawal from Iraq with many other details that are all included in 2007 bills, the Reid amendment and the Levin/Reed amendments which garnered as many as 53 votes, and which passed the Senate in the spring, only to be vetoed by the president. I hear Hillary Clinton on Sunday programs repeat all of the provisions of the K/F amendment as her Iraq plan. That, of course, is a good thing, because Kerry's ideas were correct.

To say that Kerry wasn't a big part of S-CHIP is to basically say that those who do the work, but for mysterious Senate reasons (it is a strange club), don't have their name end up on the final product is just not the truth. And, quite frankly, it goes against my idea of honoring work ethics and giving credit where credit's due.
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frazzled Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. Let me direct you to four of the plans that were current at the time
Edited on Sat Oct-06-07 11:01 PM by frazzled
I posted the link to the pdf above--I cannot reproduce their text or chart here easily, so please go to pp. 3-5 of the pdf.

ontent.healthaffairs.org/cgi/reprint/16/4/64.pdf

But, as background: Federal attempts to insure poor children were around a long time before SCHIPs was passed in 1997. As early as 1990 attempts to expand Medicaid insurance to poor children were made. "The Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990 (OBRA1990), requires all states to provide Medicaid coverage to children under age nineteen (phased in by the year 2002) who are living in families with annual incomes under 100 percent of the federal poverty line. Inaddition, as part of OBRA 1989, states are required to cover all children (and pregnant women for pregnancy-related expenses) through age five who are living in families with annual incomes below 133 percent of poverty."

The growing number of uninsured led to various plans to bolster this federal assistance in the mid-1990s. Two general approaches were proposed by all the various policies: (1) expand coverage largely within existing Medicaid program (2) provide funding to states to complement Medicaid.

At least four proposals were made: S.13, from Tom Daschle, the Healthy Children Family Assistance Health Insurance Act of 1996 (S.2186), from Kerry and Kennedy, the broader Health Care Assurance Act of 1997 (S. 24) from Arlen Specter, as well as President Clinton's proposal to provide additional flexibility to states in Medicaid program design, as well as full-year coverage for children eligible for Medicaid and expansions in enrollment efforts.

The detailed comparison of these plans is explained on the chart on pp. 4-5. I suggest you read it, because I cannot reproduce it here, though I am not hopeful anyone will.

I don't know why people are being so obdurate here in refusing to grant that this problem was being worked on from many angles at the time: everyone deserves credit for trying to get something that could pass.

As for Kerry not getting the creds, this is childish. Why don't you ask why Tom Daschle got no creds? He apparently introduced the first bill. Besides, this is not about John Kerry.




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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. I read it, it doesn't
Edited on Sat Oct-06-07 11:10 PM by ProSense
change the fact that the legislation the Kerry crafted, the Kerry-Kennedy plan, wound up being the basis of the legislation Kennedy crafted. It was of course a bipartisan effort in the end. The OP made it clear, and I reiterate, Clinton pushing to get support (in this case Bill Clinton's) for the bill is not the same as working to craft the bill. It's as simple as that.

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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. I read a summary of the bills when looking
for information. The other bills share the same goal - insuring kids. The key difference is that the bill they used - with changes, was based on Kerry/Kennedy.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Here is how the RW was characterizing it in 1997
PDF link (Item 7)
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-07-07 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #40
45. Nearly identical language, they say
I guess that's just a co-incidence. There actually were differences, none for the better, but necessary to pass it. For one, it would have been an entitlement, not something that has to be voted on every 5 years. For another, the states have more latitude - does anyone remember that in 2000 Bush was criticized because of the low number of kids Texas actually enrolled in it.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-07-07 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #33
42. Thanks for that info. For me, the reason why Kerry is relevant here is history from 2004.
We were told, and for which factcheck.org supposedly backed up (for which it was wholly incomplete), was that "Kerry did nothing in the Senate". Don't you remember that BS meme parroted by the Right? Kerry was credited with investigations like Iran/Contra, BCCI, and POW/MIA, but we were basically told by the media that he didn't do much of anything else. That is not true, and this S-CHIP story is one more piece of the missing puzzle. And I have shared with you other examples as well. THAT is why it is even more relevant than Tom Daschle who didn't have a talking point against him that in 22 years of service "he did nothing in the Senate".

Hope that helps.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-07-07 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #42
46. Not to mention some very significant foreign policy items
In 2004, how much was said about the fact that Kerry had worked with Cambodia and the international community to design a format for the tribunal currently underway to deal with Pol Pot's crimes. Before Kerry proposed a solution that satisfied the international community and Cambodia the effort was stalemated.

Earlier this year, when a Kerry staffer of 20 years from the SFRC retired, there was a very nice interview in her RI newspaper where she spoke of many things that were done - one surprised me because I didn't know it - Kerry, Vallry, and she while in Saigon wrote the draft of the treaty that sealed the reconciliation with Vietnam. Most of what I know of the incredible, meticulous work and delicate diplomacy that Kerry did on the MIA/POW committee was from John McCain's book.

Why is getting out what Kerry did important. It is important to give credit where due, not just to the people who claim everything as theirs if they did anything. It is also important because he is running for Senate. He needs his accomplishments known. There is no one who has been smeared more for a longer time than he has - including the Clintons. In his case it started in 1971.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-07-07 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #33
44. Daschle's plan
was introduced on Jan. 21, 1997, and Kerry was a co-sponsor: http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=105_cong_bills&docid=f:s13is.txt.pdf">PDF

Democrats to Seek Expansion of Health Coverage for Children


By Spencer Rich
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, December 8, 1996; Page A19


The proposals, being drafted by Senate Minority Leader Thomas A. Daschle (S.D.), House Minority Leader Richard A. Gephardt (Mo.) and other key Democrats, essentially could create a new class of federal social support. Some of the initiatives would offer a tax credit to help a family buy their children a health care policy, while others would offer a direct federal subsidy of some type.

Although the details are still being worked out, most of the measures focus on children in families that fall between the cracks: They're not poor enough to qualify for Medicaid but not affluent enough to pay for private insurance entirely out of their own pocket.

<...>

But many more ambitious plans are in the works. Among the most detailed thus far is a proposal being drafted by Sens. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.) and John F. Kerry (D-Mass.) that would provide grants to the states to help families afford health insurance for their children.

The plan would target families in that no man's land — that is, those who are not poor enough to be eligible for Medicaid but who don't get insurance on the job and can't afford to pay for it themselves. Under the Kennedy-Kerry plan, families would be paid a federal subsidy that would gradually decrease as their income went up.


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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. Or you can read this:

CONCURRENT RESOLUTION ON THE BUDGET (Senate - May 21, 1997)

Mr. KERRY. Mr. President, I thank the Senator from New Jersey.

I am proud to rise to join Senator Hatch and Senator Kennedy as a cosponsor of this, and to thank them for their leadership on it. Let me say first of all, that it is absolutely disingenuous to suggest to the U.S. Senate that this amendment ought to be voted against or is subject to criticism because it reduces the tax cut by $30 billion.

Every U.S. Senator knows, by virtue of our experience here and the practice on the budget, that we are not allowed to specify the specific source of revenue. But every Senator also knows what the source of revenue would be if we decided to pass this legislation. There is no question about it.

There is no other place that the Finance Committee would go as a consequence of an overwhelming vote of the Senate to say that we should provide this care with the understanding of the sponsors and of all of those proposing that there is one source that we are directing our attention to for the revenue. So that is an entire smokescreen. No Senator can hide their vote behind that kind of smokescreen today.

Second, it is absolutely false to suggest that the $16 billion in the agreement is going to provide health care to even the 5 million children that it claims to, let alone the 10 million children we know do not have coverage today. The math is ascertainable. And the math will tell you that you are only going to cover about 3.7 million children with the amount of money allocated.

The fact is, that last year when Senator Kennedy and I and Senator Rockefeller and others introduced legislation to provide health care for children, we thought we had an approach. And Senator Hatch and others could not find agreement with it. And there have been some changes since then. But let me tell you, Mr. President, what else has happened since then.

There are 750,000 additional children who have lost their private health insurance in this country in that year that we have not seen fit to do what Senator Kennedy and Senator Hatch are asking us to do today--750,000 additional kids.

One kid every 35 seconds has lost their health insurance in this country. And the fact is, that most of those 10 million kids are the sons and daughters of parents who are working. Ninety percent of them are working. And the vast majority, about 68 or 69 percent, both parents are working and are working full time.

So why is this necessary, Mr. President? Let me just share with you a real-life story from Massachusetts. Jim and Sylvia Pierce were married in 1980. They lived in Everett, MA. Jim was a plumber. They had three children: Leonard, Brianna, and Alyssa.

In October 1993, Sylvia was pregnant with her fourth child when Jim was murdered on his way home from the store. In that one horrible moment, her life changed forever. She not only lost her husband, but, pregnant and alone, she lost her health insurance as well. Her survivor's benefits made her income too high to be able to qualify for long-term Medicaid but it was too low to be able to pay the $400 a month premium that would have extended her husband's health plan so that it would have covered her children. Result--she lost her health insurance, pregnant, and with three children.

And she said, `I've always taken good care of my children. I feed them well; I take them to the doctors immediately when they need it. All of a sudden I couldn't do that anymore.'

That is what this debate is about, Mr. President. It is about families like that that are trying to provide for their children. It is about teachers who will tell us again and again that children in a school who are disruptive in a class are often the children who have not even been diagnosed for an

earache or for an eye problem. We are the only industrial country on this planet that does not provide health care to our children.

That is unacceptable in 1997. It is unacceptable when we are looking at 134 billion dollars' worth of gross tax cuts.

Mr. President, every person involved with children will tell us the value of providing health care to those kids so that you can provide the long-term preventive care and diagnosis necessary to provide them with full participation in our society.

The Journal of the American Medical Association found that children with coverage gaps are more likely to lack a continuing and regular source of health care, so that if you just have a gap in your coverage, the greater likelihood is you are not going to be able to make it up and have any kind of long-term preventative care; and that even when factors, such as family income, chronic illness, and family mobility are factored out, numerous studies by university researchers and by Government agencies show that the uninsured are less likely to receive preventative care, such as immunizations, more likely to go to emergency rooms for their care, more likely to be hospitalized for conditions that could have been avoided with proper preventive care, and more likely to have longer hospital stays than individuals with health insurance.

So, in other words, the fact that we nickel and dime this and we refuse to give them coverage actually winds up costing us a lot more in the long run.

Mr. President, when you really consider the savings in this, this ought to be a no-brainer for Members of the Senate. And the fact is, the reason we are turning to cigarettes is because cigarettes are the greatest saver of all. You can leave aside the fact that the Wall Street Journal did a poll that suggested that 72 percent of Americans favor this 43-cent tax, but just think about it on the merits.

The fact is, the public supports this bill because they want children to have health insurance and they also understand the rationale for increasing the cigarette tax. The cigarette tax is a user fee. For three-quarters of Americans they are not going to pay anything additional. But for the one-quarter of Americans who do smoke, they wind up costing Americans an additional $50 billion in direct costs, health care costs as a consequence of that smoking.

Mr. President, the tobacco taxes in the United States today are the lowest in the industrial world. And even if we passed this 43-cent tax in order to fund health care for children, we would still be far below the tax charged in most of those other countries today.

There is a rationale for doing this, a rationale that is overwhelming.

In the next 24 hours, 3,000 children are going to start smoking.

Every 30 seconds a child in the United States starts smoking. And the problem is getting worse because smoking among students in grades 9 to 12 increased by more than 26 percent from 1991 to 1995.

And although 419,000 smokers die each year of smoker-related diseases, the fact is that 89 percent of those who start to smoke by the age of 18 are going to be replaced today or the fact is those 419,000 are going to be replaced by about 1 million new smokers, which means that you are going to have about 89 percent of those who are 18 will have started smoking before that.

Mr. President, the tobacco tax is known to weed out that early smoking. The tobacco tax, according to the American Cancer Institute, suggests that 835,000 children's lives would be saved. So that is really the choice we face in this vote today. We know that if you raise the taxes on cigarettes, the people with the least amount of disposable income, which are kids, are less accessible to cigarettes. The fact is, if 835,000 lives could be saved and we refuse to take the step today to do that, then ask yourself what the complicity is in those additional 835,000 smokers and deaths that would occur as a consequence.

Mr. President, this makes sense. This is important in terms of our rising to the standards of the rest of the countries in the world, industrial countries. It makes sense to save countless tax dollars that are spent for those people who die, the 419,000 each year, as a result of smoking-related disease. It makes sense because it provides children with the opportunity to have the diagnosis of preventive care that provides them with a full opportunity to participate in our society.

I think Senator Hatch and Senator Kennedy are absolutely correct when they say this is one of the most important votes we will cast. This does not blow apart any agreement. Do not let any smokescreen to that effect cloud a vote here. This agreement can hold together because this amendment provides for revenue and it provides for making up the difference of what is taken away. In the end, this agreement could go forward, and America's children would benefit as a consequence of that.

I reserve the balance of my time.

PDF




THE BALANCED BUDGET ACT OF 1997--CONFERENCE REPORT (Senate - July 31, 1997)

Mr. KERRY. Mr. President, I come to the chamber today to support this balanced budget. We have worked for many years, making hard choices, fighting for our priorities, managing this country's budget process--all in order to be able to stand in the Chamber as members of both political parties in support of a balanced budget.

It is not the bill I would have written, but there is a large degree of foolhardiness in rejecting the good in favor of the perfect. A great debt is owed to the chairman and ranking member of the Finance Committee and their counterparts on the Budget Committee as well as their staffs who have worked with us over the course of these many months in crafting this plan.

And, there is no question in my mind, Mr. President, that this legislation is better than the deal the Senate passed last month--a plan I opposed because it did not do enough for hard-working American families and largely ignored America's children . This legislation before us now incorporates many of the provisions I and others on this side of the aisle fought to have included.

For that reason, this is a day of vindication for Americans who believe, as Democrats have proven, that it is vital to balance the Federal budget and extend health care to children , provide broader educational opportunities, ensure the future for our senior citizens and safeguard our environment.

Since 1993, we have moved in this direction. In 1993, when the first Democrat in a generation was elected President and Democrats formed the majority in both Houses of Congress, we have worked arduously to break the spiraling deficits which plagued our Nation for a decade and provide a solid economic foundation for our Nation as we move into the 21st century. And, Mr. President, we've succeeded. We have waited for the day when the benefits of our hard work would be as obvious as they are today.

Even the possibility of the legislation before us now--a conceptually balanced budget with tax breaks-- is testament to the application of Democratic ideals to fiscal policy. In 5 years, we cut the deficit from $290 billion to the current level of perhaps less than $50 billion. Interest rates are subdued. We are seeing the lowest unemployment and inflation rates and the largest drop in poverty rates in a generation. Consumer confidence has shown the best improvement since the Eisenhower administration and the value of the stock market has doubled since 1993--the Dow break records every day--and the market itself is experiencing the fastest growth since the Second World War.

We have been successful, because, since the Great Depression, our party has stuck by the fundamental belief that sound economic and social policy go hand-in-glove, that our Nation is stronger when all Americans have equal economic opportunity.

Thomas Jefferson taught us that ours is a Nation of the common man and enshrined this belief in one of our most treasured documents when he wrote of the self-evident truth that all men are created equal.

Andrew Jackson echoed this creed when he restated the party's commitment to the humble members of our society--the farmers, mechanics and laborers. That commitment, that core set of beliefs, is in fact, Mr. President, the essence of the American dream and the foundation of what has become the greatest contribution this Nation has provided to the world's social economic history--the growth of a vibrant middle class. Universal economic opportunity, sound fiscal policy based on equitable distribution of benefits and assistance to those most in need--those are the fundaments of Democratic economic policy. That is the goal of the program we put in place in 1993, and that is the end to which our fiscal policies are directed. Franklin Roosevelt reminded us of our commitment to expanding opportunity when he said: `the spirit of opportunity is the kind of spirit that has led us as a Nation--not as a small group but as a Nation--to meet very great problems.'

Mr. President, as Democrats, we believe that deficit reduction is a means to an end. We believe that tax breaks are a means to an end. But, unlike the Republicans, we do not subscribe to the callow notion that deficit reduction is an economic policy in and of itself or that tax breaks are an end which justify any means. We do not believe that cutting vital programs is a courageous or visionary act. We believe that courage lies in advancing economic opportunity: this requires wisdom, innovation and prescience. It is chilling that this dichotomy of political and economic philosophy remains as obviously demarcated today as it was 100 years ago. I re-read the cogent description by William Jennings Bryan of the two opposing ideas of government: he separated the parties into those who `legislate to make the well-to-do prosperous and wait for their prosperity to leak through on those below, or those who legislate to make the masses prosperous and ensuring that their prosperity will find its way up through every class which rests upon them.'

Mr. President, as a U.S. Senator, I have an obligation to the constituents who elected me to represent their interests, to act on their behalf and to present their views to this body. At times here, there is often a temptation to acquiesce ones core set of beliefs to the majority. It is easier to be hidden by the crowd than to stand alone and dissent, simpler to obey the tenets of a deal than the core of ones belief, more politic to do what is possible than do what is right, and more efficient to save time by agreeing. But remember the words of Harry Truman, Mr. President, when he said that `whenever you have an efficient government, you have a dictatorship.'

I am pleased that our provocation, our urging, our insistence in crafting this compromise that helps working class Americans was successful. I cannot turn away from the long history which has shaped my essence sense of fairness, my overarching insistence on making government work for the common good and the needs of my constituents. Mr. President, for that reason, I voted against the tax portion of the reconciliation bill as I voted against the spending portion when they passed the Senate the first time, and because these bills were dramatically improved, I am able to support the conference report today.

Mr. President, I am grateful for the work of the Senator from Delaware, Senator Roth who chairs the Finance Committee and my friend from New York, Senator Moynihan, who serves as that committee's ranking member. They have improved a gravely flawed piece of legislation passed by the House of Representatives and the Senate the first time.

During the course of the initial debate, I attempted to shape the legislation so it would do more for more average citizens, but time and again we were rebuffed. I said at the time, Mr. President, that before I could approve it when it returns from conference, this legislation needed significant improvement, especially as regards the treatment of children and hard-working American families.

In the original Senate package, nearly 43 percent of the breaks went to the wealthiest 10 percent of Americans--those who earn more than $120,000. In the original plan, Mr. President, 60 percent of hard-working poor and middle class Americans got only 12.7 percent of the tax breaks, while the richest 1 percent of Americans get 13 percent of the benefits. In the original Finance Committee proposal, the poorest 60 percent got as much as the richest 1 percent. This was a new standard of

unfairness. This was anathema to the party of Jefferson and Jackson and Truman and Roosevelt. I tried to change it; I was unsuccessful and I rejected it.

I am pleased the conference report has a more equitable distribution by allowing more working class Americans to take advantage of the child-tax credit, for example. By most measures, Mr. President, this proposal has moved closer to our ideals and is unquestionably more equitable.

There is no more obvious improvement in this bill, Mr. President, from the original Finance Committee plan than the treatment of hard-working middle class families raising children . During the initial debate, I attempted to give more help to the American families on the lower end of the economic spectrum--young families with young children --who will be doing the most for our country in the future.

Mr. President, I attempted to correct this basic inequity by offering an amendment which would have improved the bill by granting a refundable child tax credit to all working families. Most Americans pay more in payroll taxes than income taxes. Income taxes have remained stable for most Americans in the past 10 years while payroll taxes have increased 17 percent.

My distinguished colleague from Louisiana, Senator Landrieu, attempted to amend the original plan so families who receive the earned income credit would not be penalized. She is a new member of this body, Mr. President, but she has already made an enormous contribution. She is a young mother and as such speaks with a clear voice on the difficulties of raising children today, and Mr. President, because this proposal incorporates her vision and my vision, it is a better deal for all Americans.

I am pleased also that this conference report allows Americans to off-set the credit against these payroll taxes. Now, it applies to all Americans even those receiving the earned income credit. This is in distinct contrast with the original Finance Committee plan under which nearly 40 percent of America's children were excluded from the tax credit. Those 40 percent are the children of working class Americans, children of young teachers, police officers, farmers and nurses who work hard and are the backbone of this country.

Now, Mr. President, the Democrat proposal--more measured and fair--has prevailed. And, more Americans will be afforded a share of the great economic success this country has enjoyed since 1993. I could tell you that this bill provides a tax break for 5.9 million more American families with children than the Senate bill and 7.5 million more families than the House bill, but instead of relying dry statistical analyses and distributional tables, let me take a moment to show you some real people and compare how the different plans affect them.

The Richards family from Sioux Falls, SD, Charlie and Karen and their two children , will receive $975 from the child tax credit and both their children will be covered by health insurance. Under the House plan, the family would have received no child tax break; under the Senate plan, $418. This legislation, incorporating my amendment, will give them twice as much in the child tax break.

Under this plan, the Ussinger family from Albuquerque, NM will receive $1500 in child tax breaks. The House plan would have given them $6 and the original Finance Committee plan would have provided $458. This plan, incorporating my amendment, will give the Ussingers three times as much.

The Buckman family from Washington, DC, will now receive $594 in the child tax break. Under the House bill, the Buckmans would have gotten nothing and the Senate version would have given them only $143. So, this plan, incorporating my amendment, will give the Buckmans here in our Nation's capital four times as much in child tax breaks.

All of those children , Mr. President, every one of them, and 5 million more, will have health insurance thanks to our insistence and the leadership of Senator Kennedy that we deliver the largest investment in the health of our children since the enactment of Medicaid, a generation ago.

This plan invests an unprecedented $24 billion for uninsured children , and since it is funded by a tax on cigarettes, it is, in fact, a double health benefit. This plan serves as a financial barrier--a powerful disincentive for children to start smoking in the first place. It supplements, not supplants, current health care coverage. Our plan requires that States maintain their current Medicaid eligibility levels of spending to access Federal dollars to ensure that this investment is not used to replace public or private money that already covers children .

Mr. President, simply put, this is the embodiment of the Democratic principles I mentioned earlier. This victory for America's children and middle-income families is a victory for America itself. We will all benefit from a healthier generation of children .

Mr. President, there are some elements of this package about which I am unsure. I would have preferred the approach to capital gains reduction for which Senator Bumpers and I have fought for a decade--a measured, targeted approach instead of the broad-based cut this bill contains. I would have rejected the large back-loaded expensive IRA provision. But, at the end of the day, we must ask ourselves if this legislation meets the basic standards of fairness to which we attest; does it help average, hard-working American families? The answer is yes. Does it provide assistance for America's children and the young families struggling to raise them--those who have as yet not enjoyed the fruits of the economic boom? The answer is yes.

I am pleased to be able to join the majority of our colleagues, Mr. President, in supporting this plan.

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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-06-07 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #26
36. Tell that to the NYT
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=980DEFDC113CF932A2575BC0A961958260&sec=health&spon=&pagewanted=2

Kerry/Kennedy was introduced in October 1996. Per the NYT article, after compromises the bill that started as Kerry-Kennedy became S-CHIP. Kennedy himself credited Kerry as having been a key player on this. I agree that Kennedy deserves the lion's share of credit because he was able to forge the deal with Hatch.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-07-07 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #36
43. That's a great article. And it clearly shows Kerry/Kennedy was the precursor
but Kennedy needed a Republican on the bill in order for it to pass. THIS IS HOW THE SENATE WORKS.

NYT:

Not long before last fall's elections, Mr. Kennedy and John F. Kerry, the junior Democratic Senator from Massachusetts, introduced a bill that proposed paying for health insurance for uninsured children through a tobacco tax, a law that was already in place in their state.

Throughout the fall and into the end of 1996, Mr. Kennedy notified a string of Republican senators in an effort to bring them aboard, among them John H. Chafee of Rhode Island, Mike DeWine of Ohio, John McCain of Arizona and Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania.

The common link among those Republicans, a Democratic aide said, was that ''they had voted against the tobacco lobby in the past and they were open to children's health insurance.''

Mr. Kennedy ultimately teamed with Mr. Hatch, a conservative with whom the liberal from Massachusetts had worked closely in the past and whose Mormon beliefs had made him an ardent foe of tobacco and supporter of children's legislation.



That's why Kerry's name was dropped, especially since he is the junior senator from Mass. Clearly the Kennedy/Kerry bill was the mover/shaker bill, not the other ones mentioned.

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MagsDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-07-07 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
47. Both Clinton's ran on health care - always have
So it's a bit unfair to imply they just "went along" with a Kerry - Kennedy bill. And last I checked, it is the job of congress to write and pass legislation. Doesn't get anywhere without WH support though, unless there is a veto proof majority.

Why is it so hard for people to give her the credit that is due her? I don't understand that. These same people will back Obama to the hilt even though he has zero big name federal legislation under his belt. I'm not solid on Hilary, and I will vote for whatever dem wins the primary. But I do find it odd that so many dems refuse to give her any credit on anything.

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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-08-07 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #47
49. This is not about Obama
Edited on Mon Oct-08-07 02:02 AM by karynnj
who did get a major amendment in the ethics bill that dealt with lobbyists bundling contributions to legislators passed. What is Clinton's big name legislation? It is NOT this - she did not design this or write this bill. It is Kennedy/Hatch - though much of it was written by Kerry.

You say that it's not true that she just went along with the Kerry/Kennedy bill that was changed to become Kerry/Hatch's SCHIP program. It was their idea, their legislation and it is not likely she wrote it for Kerry. She was not in Congress and was not President. Her roll on it was as an advocate in the White House.

As to no one giving Hillary credit - that is just not true. She has gradually maneuvered to use words like "initiated" and calling it "her major accomplishment" which overstate her role. If you want to talk someone not given due credit - Kerry, who wrote the original bill, that was transformed within 7 months of its introduction into SCHIP is a better candidate.

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MagsDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-08-07 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #49
51. Kennedy is lying then?
Kennedy gives her the credit, but you fault her for accepting it. Keep in mind, Kennedy is not running for President. But by all means, resume the circular firing squad that is the Democratic base standard operating procedure. That will certainly help get a Dem elected president, now won't it?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-08-07 05:39 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. Kennedy gives her credit for helping to bring Bill Clinton on board.
Read the rest of the thread. As you yourself said, Hillary didn't write the bill.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-08-07 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #51
54. Kennedy gives her credit for her role
She did play an important role - but it had not thing to do with initiating, defining or writing the legislation. Look at the quote of Littlefield, Kennedy's healthcare staffer which defines what that role was. It was good to have such a well positioned supporter in the White House.

Any program of this magnitude will have a huge number of people who had a hand in helping make it happen. My problem is that the Clinton people, likely because of a desire to have her appear as an executive use the verbs that one associates with the person leading the effort. In her own biography, written with a future campaign in mind, she claims only that she helped out behind scenes. She also doesn't bother to even mention Kerry - just as her husband ignores his role on the reconciliation with Vietnam - likely because, when it was written, he could be a threat to her chances. The combination of these two things is why I posted the article written in the NYT at the time it passed. It clearly defines and credits all of them.

More than anyone else, Kennedy deserves the credit here, but if there is a second place, it is Kerry. He was the first to push the bill and he very carefully crafted the financial pieces of it. If Hillary said that she led in persuading the White House, the public and Congress to support the work of Kennedy, Hatch and Kerry, I would be the first to say she did a good job. But, I do not find a single quote from either Clinton even in 2004 giving Kerry credit. Kerry is running for Senate, not President, why not credit everyone - at least now.
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MagsDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-09-07 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #54
59. who said it had anything to do with to do with initiating, defining or writing the legislation?
That's a straw man, pure and simple. She wasn't in a position to do that; yet she surely would have had she been. The point is she, like Bill, has the political skills to advance the Dem agenda, EVEN when she isn't in the optimum position to do so (just like he did). As I have said before, she is not my "dream Dem" but IMHO, it's foolish to say she doesn't have the political skill to advance our agenda. She clearly does. I held my nose and voted FOR Kerry more to vote against Bush, and I will vote for whomever the Dem candidate is. But I won't have to hold my nose when I vote for Hillary because even though I don't agree with her eye to eye I know she will not cave to the rethugs. Kerry would have. In fact he did during the campaign, which is why he lost.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-09-07 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #59
60. Ha, ha, ha, ha!! The Clintons are the MASTERS of capitulating to the GOP
I wouldn't be surprised if Hillary does what Bill did in 1993: wipe the Bush crimes under the carpet.

This was just one of many examples of shameful capitulation, capitulating to criminals, and I'll spell it out really slow:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/24appendic.htm
(Official BCCI report)


9. BCCI's financing of commodities and other business dealings of international criminal financier Marc Rich. Marc Rich remains the most important figure in the international commodities markets, and remains a fugitive from the United States following his indictment on securities fraud. BCCI lending to Rich in the 1980's amounted to tens of millions of dollars. Moreover, Rich's commodities firms were used by BCCI in connection with BCCI's involving in U.S. guarantee programs through the Department of Agriculture. The nature and extent of Rich's relationship with BCCI requires further investigation.


Who was Marc Rich's lawyer?

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/03/02/clinton.library/

Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff testified Thursday he believes prosecutors of billionaire financier Marc Rich "misconstrued the facts and the law" when they went after Rich on tax evasion charges.

The testimony from Lewis "Scooter" Libby, who represented Rich dating back to 1985 but stopped working for him in the spring of 2000, came during a contentious, hours-long House committee hearing into former President Bill Clinton's eleventh-hour pardons.


Yep, Bill Clinton pardoned Marc Rich, a despicable act, for which the Congress was clueless (or in the case of the GOP, went after Clinton on other issues like Denise Rich, which was barking up the wrong tree):

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,99302,00.html

President Clinton's eleventh-hour pardon of fugitive financier Marc Rich has sparked a firestorm of controversy, launching investigations in both houses of Congress and igniting fierce protest from both Democrats and Republicans. The U.S. House and Senate have issued a rash of subpoenas calling for witnesses as well as financial records, as the House Government Reform Committee continued its hearings and the Senate Judiciary Committee geared up for its own proceedings.

...

Some are calling the inquiries a field day for die-hard Clinton-haters. But most see this as a source of bipartisan outrage. Republicans and Democrats alike were dumbstruck by the Rich pardon. The federal prosecutors who indicted Rich are especially livid, particularly because, by definition, Rich appears to be ineligible for a pardon: He never took responsibility for his actions or served any sentence.



Look who is NOT interested in the Marc Rich case:

How does President Bush feel about the Rich pardon inquiries?

Bush has been quoted as saying he thinks "it's time to move on," and by all accounts has little interest in pursuing any investigation that keeps his predecessor in the national spotlight.



Oh, yeah, the Clintons will "fight back" against the GOP. <sarcasm>


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MagsDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-09-07 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. Oh come on...
You're really stretching on that one. What does Marc Rich have to do with capitulating to the GOP? You think Bill pardoned him because Scooter Libby was his lawyer? LOL! I think he pardoned him because he was Denise Rich's ex, and she was a huge donor, and she personnally beseeched him to do it, and he's a softie for friends and family.

Even if your unlikely premise is correct, what does that have to do with having the political skill to pass legislation in the face of Rethug majority, which is exactly what he did? Answer: Nothing. He beat the rethugs in congress down pretty bad.

Secondly, what does Bill's pardon of Marc Rich have to do with Hillary? again, answer: Nothing.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-08-07 02:13 AM
Response to Original message
50. Angel, meet pin.
this is just silly. I know YOU feel the need to attribute virtually every good thing that's happened in the Congress over the last twenty odd years to Kerry, but this is absurd.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-08-07 05:37 AM
Response to Reply #50
52. Absurd is ignoring
the facts to make a silly point.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-08-07 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #52
55. Sorry, I feel you're still stuck in 2004
and your adulation of everything Kerry goes a bit over the top.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-08-07 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #55
58. What's this about? Are you upset over Kerry's involvement in writing the bill or
Edited on Mon Oct-08-07 11:30 AM by ProSense
that I'm referencing that he did? Also, what does this have to do with 2004?

What's the difference: Hilbot vs. Angel?

Hypocrite meet mirror!
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-08-07 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #50
56. That is NOT true
Here, a significant part of the bill that passed WAS written by Kerry. Even then, all of us have given at least as much credit to Senator Kennedy.

Are you saying that Kerry supporters should not point out his major contribution on this? Yet, you don't think the Clinton supporters areover doing it giving her credit?

Simple fact: Kerry wrote the bill that about 6 months later, in a resided form was enacted.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-08-07 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #50
57. The New York Times disagrees with you:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=980DEFDC113CF932A2575BC0A961958260&sec=health&spon=&pagewanted=1

This is the story of how S-CHIP came into being. Step one was the Kerry/Kennedy bill. This matters because this is history, and it's the truth. And 2004 was full of lies, a big one from the Right being "Kerry did nothing in the Senate". I don't plan on sitting around and allowing this lie to lay there unopposed.

And in case you don't check Senate races, John Kerry is running for re-election in 2008. He should be given proper credit for his role on S-CHIP.
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