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A Populist Make-Over,Meet John Edwards, the Corporate Man

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jpgpenn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 06:19 PM
Original message
A Populist Make-Over,Meet John Edwards, the Corporate Man
Edited on Wed Feb-18-04 06:21 PM by jpgpenn



John Edwards has the best smile, the best hair and the most effective populist discourse of all the Democrats who want to be president. His endlessly repeated “Two Americas” stump speech — flaying the haves for fleecing the have-nots — has been carefully honed over months on the campaign trail. It won him second place in Iowa. But it takes more than one speech to give a contender real staying power — as the cash-strapped Edwards discovered when, by an eyelash, he lost the third-place ticket out of New Hampshire to a treasury-rich general with a weightier résumé.

But what’s under the hair and behind the smile? He was born Johnny Reid Edwards in a small mill town, but abandoned this moniker as too Snopes-y when he began the legal career that made him super-rich. He constantly says he’s the “son of a mill worker,” and to hear him tell it, he pulled himself up from poverty so crushing it evokes images of shoeless Li’l Abner. His “Two Americas” rally-pleaser gets much of its power from this poor-boy autobiography, but in making this tale his central campaign theme, Edwards gave his family history a cosmetic make-over, like the one he gave his name.

“The Edwardses were solidly middle class” when Johnny was growing up, according to a four-part profile of the North Carolina senator in his home state’s most prestigious daily, the Raleigh News and Observer. It’s true that for a few years as a young man Edwards’ father worked on the floor of a Roger Milliken textile mill. But Edwards père (a lifelong Republican, like his reactionary boss) quickly climbed upward, becoming a monitor of worker productivity as a “time-study” man — which any labor organizer in the South will tell you is a polite term for a stoolie who spies on the proletarian mill hands to get them to speed up production for the same low wages. Daddy Edwards’ grassing got him promoted to supervisor, then to plant manager — and he finally resigned to start his own business as a consultant to the textile industry. As a Boston Globe profile of Edwards put it last year, the senator never “notes that his father was part of management . . . ‘John was more middle class than most of us,’” says Bill Garner, a high school friend and college roommate.

Edwards’ legislative record — what little there is of it — is hardly populist. In fact, Edwards is a classic, corporate-friendly, centrist New Democrat. In his five years as a freshman senator, Edwards on his own produced little legislation, much less than some other first-termers — although he was assigned by Tom Daschle to represent the Democrats in negotiations over a patients’ bill of rights, and so can boast he was a co-sponsor of the final, but aborted, bill.

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Jan04/Ireland0129.htm


this article shows alot of what I seen in Edwards. It seems he has a need to overinflate a story as to get maxium political gain from it. At least this is what i've found to be the case.
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. Great hit piece.
:eyes:
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jpgpenn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. wasn't meant as one, sorry if you take it that way.
Only sharing with others what i'm finding on Edwards. I've asked many many folks here to help provide info pertaining to Edwards. To date the most they could provide was his site info.
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Dissident Voice is the left's answer to Drudge.
:puke:
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OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. They slammed Clark pretty hard
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jpgpenn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. like I said..
Edited on Wed Feb-18-04 06:37 PM by jpgpenn
Ok Nancy, this is something I had just found and read. I'm just sharing with others info i'm sure they would appreciate. One thing can be said for sure. There has been a great lack of any outside sourcing pertaining to Edwards. Most of what we hear batted around here is his own over inflated words. Now when something from the outside is presented many of his supporters cry foul.

What are we to do if he some how he gets the nod then is hit by *Bush and Rove with this? Information is the key to understanding those that want to represent us!
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OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
30. Yes, I understand
I have read on other, less volatile sites about Edwards middle-class background, so I accept that it is true. Nothing wrong with that, but he does tend to play the "son of a mill worker" up a lot, so I do agree that it is fair game.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
92. Doug Ireland writes regularly for the Nation
:shrug:

I find the Leah Rabin anecdote suspect, but the rest of the article seems credible enough. I don't think Johnny Edwards is the answer to our "prayers."
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. that's simply untrue. There have been many, many links
to voting records, articles that JRE's written, articles written about him, NARAL appraisals, etc., etc., etc. Anyone who doubts this is welcome to do a search.
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jpgpenn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. or you can
post them yourself. I know I and many have asked and I have yet to get anything but links to his own site!
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JohnLocke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. You don't mind a website that advocates anarchism and attacks Clark?

Captioned "The Awful Truth about Wesley Clark"
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
93. Doug Ireland wrote this for LA Weekly.
He writes for the Nation and Tompaine.com. He's not a flaming anarchist.
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JohnLocke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. Ah, yes, Dissident Voice, the finest in commentary...not
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JohnLocke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. 'Interesting' things on its Front Page
Edited on Wed Feb-18-04 06:27 PM by JohnLocke


I'm Jewish and I take great offense.


Captioned "The Awful Truth about Wesley Clark"




"Anarchy FAQ"

Yes...Dissident Voices, the finest in commentary...not!
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. Nice hit piece. Really nice.
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mlawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. It must be sad,
to only post, to try and tear down someone else's candidate.
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displacedtexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
4. So, Johnny's dad was the Fred Thompson character in Roseanne?
Interesting.
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
7. I'll let others tear this apart line by line
because there is so much inaccuracy there, it will keep many occupied, but had to comment on one thing:

"hear him tell it, he pulled himself up from poverty so crushing it evokes images of shoeless Li’l Abner"

I've listened to enough of his stump speeches and interviews and read his website, and NEVER have I heard him portray his background in this way. This is a MUCH more extreme characterization, and the matter of degree is the essence of what makes this a false smear.
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jpgpenn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
38. hmmmm, doesn't seem to be anyone ..
answering your call.:shrug:
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citizen snips Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
12. Ah the negativity.
I can only laugh.
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mlawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. No, it's not laughable.
Stuff like this, reapeated enlessly, becomes a 'truism'. When used by the bush campaign in 2000, it worked against Gore in the minds of the less informed voters. Lee Atwater was especially adept at using false assertions agaunst Dukakis.

You will now see more and more DU posts chiming in, from DUers who will now believe that Edwards grew up in a 'comfortable' income household.
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citizen snips Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. I keep on hearing the same thing in these negetive threads.
Eventually you just got to laugh at them.
"Oh Edwards is a slick Trial lawer".
"Edwards is a repuke becuase he voted for the Patriot Act"
"Edwards said he tied in OK when he really lost"
I just keep on hearing the same thing over and over again.
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mlawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. That is the point.
Don't you think it's working? I am certain that it is, on DU.

Just as you, I live in NC, and the only negative things I have EVER heard about Edwards, appear right here on this board.
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citizen snips Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. I am really getting sick of this of these biased articles.
People will use any biased article they find on the Internet and not think twice about what it is saying and immediately post on DU.

Now I am not saying that everybody is like that but it should stop.
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jpgpenn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #27
46. That is where you come in
As his supporter show the rest of those here that any part of this article is wrong, a lie or otherwise.

Don't just sit back and state it's all garbage. The article carries a great deal of detail, all of which make for a very compelling case against edwards.

Prove it wrong, otherwise reframe from sayings it's all biased trash!
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citizen snips Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. Where "I come in".
Oh I can't stop anybody from posting this stuff on DU. But these flame wars only hurt the democratic party and our mission to oust Bush.
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jpgpenn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #49
54. It never hurts to show facts!
Especially when a candidate is running around with a hyped story of how hard his life was. In fact it appears to not have been so bad after all!

Like I said, very compelling!
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citizen snips Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #54
60. The awful Truth About Wes Clark (an article from the dissident voice)
Edited on Wed Feb-18-04 09:10 PM by MATTMAN
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles8/DVNS_Wesley-Clark.htm


They even trash your former candidate. so how can you trust this site?
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jpgpenn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #60
66. They only reran the article, look at post 50 ...
for the actual site where the article ran!
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billhos Donating Member (58 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
16. One thing that bothers me..
i about lawyers. Like John Edwards, they can engage very effectively in populist rhetoric,in law suits against corporations. But then again the only reason why they are not representing the other party is because they did not get paid by them. They are not convinceing to me. That does not mean you should or should not vote for Edwards that is just my take on lawyers in general, especially ones sounding a populist note when it suits them.
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jpgpenn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. I agree with alot of what you said
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mlawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Five of my closest friends are lawyers.
And they are just like anyone else, they have scruples, morals, and they all happen to be strong Dems (and hate bush passionately). I am sure that the profession has its bad apples, but so does every other one.

My own friends would NOT take cases that represented individuals or companies which stood for corporate unethical behavior. And they are far from wealthy. One of them represents only environmental groups, for instance; he has waist length hair, and lives like the hippy he is.
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citizen snips Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #21
34. It is not that he is a lawyer.
It is just some people will find anything to attack Edwards on. Four Trials is a good book everybody needs to read and it teaches you that Edwards is not a corrupt lawyer but a lawyer who fights for the families in need and who have been neglected.
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mlawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #34
42. To some, it is just that.
Edited on Wed Feb-18-04 07:29 PM by mlawson
A couple of hard core Edwards detractors here always refer to him desparagingly as "a trial lawyer", just as KKKRove will do if Edwards gets the nomination. It's exactly like the RW use of the word 'liberal': millions of voters are programmed to react negatively to that word, yet they have murky ideas at best, as to why it's such a 'bad' thing. But that doesn't matter; it works.
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billhos Donating Member (58 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #21
55. Your friends may very well be lhornorableawyers
Members of my family have a court case going on now against a corporation because of some real negative stuff they did. They honestly cannot tell whether the thier own lawyers or the guys there suing are the bad guys. The lawyers will bill for work they do not do, they will delay too run up bills and try every trick too take advantage of the situation too bleed them out of thier money. Almost every person that I know who has went too court has had horror stories of it. Your friends sounds very motivated by causes that he believes in, but from my experiance that is not typical of lawyers.
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kanrok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. Where on earth do you get your facts?
How can you paint with such a broad brush? I mean, really: "But then the only reason they are not representing the other party is because they did not get paid by them." What a crock. Give concrete examples of your assertion. I'm willing to listen to your vast knowledge of the motives of lawyers. It's nice to have an opinion. It's better if you had a basis for it. Guess, speculation and conjecture do not an opinion make.
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billhos Donating Member (58 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #26
53. personal experiance
AS an example Abraham Lincoln won a case freeing a slave with a very eleoquant summation. Several months later he represented a slave owner trying to relcaim his slave. The other lawyer took his own argument in the previous case and used it against him and won the case.
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kanrok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. Wow, you're that old? Whoulda thunk it!
What exactly is your point? That an attorney can argue both sides of a case? What has that got to do with reality? What do you think it proves, exactly? Please be specific.
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billhos Donating Member (58 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. read my original post
Abraham lincoln took the side of whoever paid him, including corrupt railroads, from which he made a fortune and that is very typical, and yes i am old enough too know my history they actually used to teach it in my day.
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kanrok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #57
64. I read your post, so what?
You have no problem denegrating an entire profession because you think that lawyers will do anything for anybody? As I said in my original post, stop painting a profession with such a broad brush. Your "experience" is based upon hearsay stacked upon hearsay. If you really want to engage in a debate about this kind of issue, you should be armed with more than personal "stories" that cannot be verified. If you want to be taken seriously, try to be realistic in your approach. All lawyers (like all doctors, and all teachers and all policemen and on an on and on) are not alike, despite your assertions to the contrary.
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jpgpenn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #64
65. Well you better start convincing the rest of America
Last I heard lawyers are pretty much at the bottom of the heap in respectability here in this country! You shouldn't be so fast to judge the poster on his opinion if your not willing to take this stand against the vast amount of other like minded people!
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kanrok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #65
67. Trust me, I am
When people with this opinion are confronted with it, they usually crumble because they cannot articulate why it is that they have the opinion. I'm sure I can say the same for you.
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jpgpenn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #67
75. wow really?
You talk so forthright and phrase yourself as if coming from such an extensive and tireless campaign to set the good name of lawyers straight! I think it's wonderful you find such common ground with an occupation many people refer to "ambulance chasers" but understand I don't have this broad brush approach to any group. There is good and bad in all.

BTW, to make an offhanded assumption that I would "crumble" for my lack of articulating my opinion is not only nieve but ignorant!
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kanrok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #75
77. Yep...my motto: "changing one ignorant person's mind at a time"
It just didn't seem to work with you. Don't pretend to be so even-handed about lawyers, especially trial lawyers. It's obvious that you have a problem with us (yes, us, I am a trial lawyer and proud of it). For example, here's a little tid-bit from a post you recently wrote: "This is the same John Edwards that has made over 40 million dollars as a high % trial lawyer but never did any pro bono work?" You claim that he has no basis to run a moral campaign as a result. Yep, you have no axe to grind here. BTW I made no offhand comment about you crumbling because you failed to make a point. It definitely was not offhand, it was meant to be a direct assumption. So far, my assumption is correct. You have failed to make a coherent argument on this issue. Change my mind. I'm waiting!
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jpgpenn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #77
79. your not going dictate the direction of this thread!
Stick to and comment on the subject heading or else feel free to start your own subject heading dealing with the pros and cons of the saintly lawyerhood. That btw would be in a different part of the DU boards.
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kanrok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #79
82. I think I already have.
You answered my last post eloquently. In other words not at all. No one else seems interested in commenting on your hit piece on John Edwards. Can't blame me for injecting a little life into this moribund thread. I've done my job here, outing lawyer haters and proving they have no basis for their irrational feelings. I look forward to reading all the rest of your anti-Edwards posts somewhere else in the future, because I know they will be there.
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billhos Donating Member (58 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #64
71. whats the point
obviously anything i will say you will just confuse. You want me to give an example and you say it is personal, when it is historical. You talk about hearsay just go listen to the stories of people who have been to court and see how many times you hear" "The lawyers got allthe money," it wasntworth it" and so forth. Your skills to confuse arejust part of the lawyers tactics, obviously they come from years in law school and paractice. I pity your clients.
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kanrok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #71
74. The point is that you have to make a cogent argument to be understood
No need to go personal just because you can't understand why it is you hate lawyers so much. "I pity your clients." Classy.
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billhos Donating Member (58 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #64
72. If you will notice in my original post
I did not say " all lawyers" i said in "general" you are putting words in my mouth. Typical legal manuvering along with intimidation tactics. Again either read my posts or quit distorting them. We may paint lawyers with a broad stroke, just as we paint republicans, corporations, Conservatives, other candidates and everybody else on this and every other political board, so what is your point? As far as my points being unproven http://www.lib.niu.edu/ipo/ihy970224.html
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kanrok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #72
76. I read the article
Again: so what? It proves that Lincoln argued two sides of a particular issue, and if you read further than that, in your own "proof" you see that the author believes that this was consistent with Lincoln's later thoughts on slavery. My point is, you have absolutely no idea what motivates me or any other single lawyer, so stop asserting that you do. You want to go on hating lawyers, go ahead, but don't think that you won't go unchallenged. You say I misinterpreted what you said in prior posts? I think not. "In general" is a weasal phrase meant to paint with a broad brush. How far is that from "all" or "most"? It's a matter of interpretation, granted, but a casual reader will interpret it at least as "most." Irrespective of your meaning (and I think I have a pretty good idea about your meaning here) here, your post is dismissive and shows a total ignorance of what work lawyers do in courtrooms all across this great country of ours. Keep up the good work!


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billhos Donating Member (58 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #76
78. this is ridicilous
so what? It proves that Lincoln argued two sides of a particular issue that proves my original contention about lawyers arguing both sides. Once again you are putting words in my mouth, and you did twist my posts.
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kanrok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #78
81. Okay, you win
Go on hating lawyers. Go on believing that I am twisting your words. They are your words, aren't they? In any event, go back and read the ENTIRE article you cited. It really is enlightening when you read everything in it, rather than cite things out of context. If your point is that lawyers are capable of arguing both sides of an issue, geez, you got me there. That's what we're trained to do. You apparently believe that lawyers are evil because they can do this. You totally ignore the fact that most lawyers (especially now, not in the 18th Century) specialize in an area of the law that is to their liking, and for which they have developed a specialty. It's called concentrating in a specific area of the law. It is rare, almost unheard of, nowadays for a lawyer to be in a position to argue both sides of a dispute. I concentrate on plaintiff's personal injury law. I don't defend people or corporations who injure people. Just don't have a defense bone in my body. That's not to say that I don't admire the work defense lawyers do, I just can't see myself doing it. I was also a criminal prosecutor. Not that I cannot admire what criminal defense lawyers do for a living, IMHO they have to be pretty special to argue on behalf of those who need representation. I just can't do it. Each and every lawyer I know does their job because they believe they can represent their clients to the best of their ability. My problem with ignorant comments like yours is (and that's not ignorant in the pejorative sense, just defined as an opinion borne not of knowledge, but speculation) you make broad, bold statements about lawyers "in general" and believe your argument is sound. I've had my say, now let me get back to making other people's life miserable.
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billhos Donating Member (58 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #81
86. actaully i was goig to cede the argument too
i obviously did nothave a chance since you are an expert at twisting what i say to you'r own use, YOu were trained and have much experiance at it. Your tactics basicaly were intimidation and browbeating. Typical of what goes on in todays law courts. My sister is getting the same in thier suits. i should not have gotten into the gutter with you for that I apologize. As I said a I am the one who ceded the argument as well and believe you clearly won. I dont know what you won. just another bad taste of lawyers and an example of the boorishness that goes on in todays courtrooms. Certainly any person observing this section of the thread, can see how people who have issue's with your profession will get run over.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #86
87. Deleted message
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westcoastbias Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
18. Where is "lifted from poverty" source
Can you cite when and where Edwards claimed he "he pulled himself up from poverty?" Or, is the just another hollow attack from another campaign that lacks any issues to stand with?
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patricia92243 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
22. All politicians "dress up"their resumes' -Edwards has done that.
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jpgpenn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. pretty broad statement but
I think I understand where you are going with it.
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mlawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Ah, but it's only a 'bad' thing, when he does it...
Don't you see? :-)
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
28. Piece originally appeared in LA Weekly. Doug Ireland - impecable
Edited on Wed Feb-18-04 07:29 PM by robbedvoter
credentials. No one attacked him when he wrote on Joe, Kerry. All checks out. All documented - by records, campaign literature. Edwards is proud is "authoring the Patriot act". he did vote for the bankruptcy law - in 2001 I was keeping close tabs and calling Senators ( got tired eventually).
He was the only democrat voting with the GOP against the Wellstone amendment - tried to lie about it on This Week - snafi caught him with the roll call.
He also thinks WMD are irrelevant - OBL=Saddam. Perfect opponent for W - Rush and Safire agree.
original link:
http://www.laweekly.com/ink/04/10/news-ireland.php
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anti-NAFTA Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
29. So this smear crap is allowed but
my saying that Kerry is an image-candidate isn't? What kind of bullshit is this?

The race is Kerry vs. Edwards. Edwards is the lesser of two... well, not evils, but not great people either. And he's more electable than Kerry on top of that. Is Kerry still going to be riding on the waves of the AWOL story in November? I don't think so.
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OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. I'm just glad I already voted because
I like both of them.

They each have their strengths and weaknesses. No matter what, however, I will happily cast my vote for the DEMOCRAT who wins....because I HATE BUSH....I abhor him, he makes me sick, he is a smart-ass jack-ass, and he probably has body-odor and bad breath too.

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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 07:26 PM
Original message
Ireland pieces on Joe, Kerry, Dean were all on DU
he was respectrable then - still is now.
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anti-NAFTA Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
41. Don't put words in my mouth.
I never called any smear piece of his "respectable." This is garbage worthy of Karl Rove.
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jpgpenn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #29
73. you can't refer to facts...
as smears!
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #29
95. Edwards is closer to the other evil in my book.
The more I learn about him, the less I trust him.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
32. Wow. Divisive. His dad wasn't middle-class *enough* for the author.
It's unbelievable how the folks in power use propaganda to divide everyone else and turn us against one another.
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jpgpenn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. wait just a second!
First off it was and is edwards himself throwing this heart wrenching story of growing up poor and struggling. Don't be so fast to shoot down others when it's the candidate himself so wiling to recycle this endless story!
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. He did grow up struggling financially. Did Kerry's partents every have to
make a choice about Kerry's education based on finances?

Edwareds's mother refinished furniture and had a small business in an old gas station. She had to quit that and take a job at the post office to get benefits so they could save money for Edwards to go to college.

He had to leave Clemson because of money, and had to pass on Duke Law because it was too expensive.

Does that sound remotely like Kerry's life?

Does it sound like the rest of America's?
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jpgpenn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. this post isn't about Kerry!
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. It's about how the typical American experiences life in America
Edited on Wed Feb-18-04 07:26 PM by AP
and Edwards is way closer to that than Kerry.

And I can understand why you don't what to talk about Kerry in a discussion about class.
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jpgpenn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. Stay on topic and refute if this so bothers you.
Don't try to steer this to a subject totally removed from what I posted.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Compare Kerry to Edwards. Who grew up middle class, working class, or rich
You can't stop me from making that comparison, and it's not off topic at all.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. This article refutes itself. It doesn't bother me at all. It's hysterics.
And it's hysterical.
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citizen snips Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. I agree look at my post #27.
n/t
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
33. This reminds me of something I read about Mick Jones of the Clash.
He was middle class because, when his mother ran off to Michigan, he had to move in with his grandmother who lived in an old mansion coverted into apartments and it had an abandoned pool in the basement.

So middle class!
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kodi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
47. isnt this the site that found jesus a bit overrated?
i found this piece a good example of sneering trash
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. Doug Ireland does sneer, it's true
But his research is generally very sound.
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jpgpenn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #47
52. look at post 50
The site I first linked to only reran the story. I missed the edit time to adjust the first post.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #52
69. Yeah
I had read it originally in the LA Weekly. I like Doug Ireland, he speaks his mind always.
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elsiesummers Donating Member (723 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
48. I read that his parents lived in public housing
when he was a baby. Sorry I don't have a source. It was many, many, months ago on the trail that he went with reporters to the actual house they had lived in.

Something else - about the middle class - it seems to me that there are common memories of being middle class that are uniting experiences to many of us.

One of my own that comes to mind is growing up without matching towels, then visiting a friend's house and finding out that some people actually had matching towels. It may seem silly, but it's something that I always wanted to have some day - sort of a marker on the road to acheivement. Somehow I doubt this was something that John Kerry ever thought about or experienced - so it reduces his common experience with some voters. Is this an important thing? Maybe not - but it does exist and it does mean something.
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jpgpenn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
50. Here is the link from where this article originally appeared.
Thanks robbedvoter.

http://www.laweekly.com/ink/04/10/news-ireland.php. No doubt a more subtle respectable place.

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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #50
58. LA Weekly has a very enthusiastic cover story on Edwards this week.
Did you read it:

Legal triumphs did, in fact, allow Edwards to join the ranks of the wealthy. But he started from near scratch, as the eldest son of teenage mill workers who lived in a three-room company house. His father would labor all his life to creep into the middle class, and watched with pride as the boy he christened “Johnny” became the first family member to attend college. After graduation from law school at the University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill, he married Elizabeth Anania, a girl he’d noticed in his first class, someone whom he’d immediately concluded was smarter and more sophisticated than he’d ever be.

http://www.laweekly.com/ink/04/12/features-blume.php

Thanks for finding this.
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littlejoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
59. From the moment I first saw Edwards, I could smell the
reek of insincerety.
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HoosierClarkie Donating Member (504 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. Well,
he is the same man who had Hugh Shelton as an unpaid advisor to his campaign while Shelton was smearing Clark. That is insincere!
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jpgpenn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #61
63. very good point!
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DiverDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #59
62. Oh give me a break
Grew up middle class (lower). He has never claimed any different.
WTF is this poverty crap?
Sore loser is all you guys are.
Keep your eye on the prize DAMN IT! We need to get this dunce outta the WH!

KKKarl loves you for doing his work for him.
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HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
68. The bottom line
is that Edwards' rhetoric would play a lot differently if his line were, "I was the son of a mill manager."
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #68
70. Bingo!
:D
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katieforeman Donating Member (785 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
80. This post wreaks of bitterness.
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jpgpenn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #80
83. bitterness or truth?
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katieforeman Donating Member (785 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #83
84. Bitterness.
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jpgpenn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #84
85. based on what?
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katieforeman Donating Member (785 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-04 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #85
96. Clark lost
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jpgpenn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-04 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #96
97. Clark left not lost!
He beat Edwards in about 3 or 4 states. He won a state he had no direct ties to. Edwards won 1 state. That is the state he was born in!
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katieforeman Donating Member (785 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-04 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #97
98. Clark left which means he lost.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #80
90. I don't care if he were born in a manger. He voted for the
Patriot Act when he knew it was crap because he helped craft it and he says he would invade Iraq, fuck the UN even now. That is why he will not have my vote. Ever.

RV, who has a big family full of draft bait to protect.
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efront Donating Member (77 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
88. Ahhhh, bitter little Clarkies.....
Maybe a 1000 more attacks, and the wanna-be Deaniacs will convince themselves that Edwards is a bad guy, and their new favorite son will choose Clark as his running mate.
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jpgpenn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #88
89. LOL, I take it you didn't like the article either?
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #88
91. Wanting To Get A Candidate Who Wouldn't Be Captive To Advisors
Isn't bitterness. It's intelligence.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
94. Glad you posted this
though many won't believe any of it.
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