Debunking another lie: Hillary is "conservative", "corporate"

[Clintonista2]

The following are polls from progressive groups, rating Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, on how often they vote for progressive issues. For each group, the percentage on the left is Clinton's score, the percentage on the right is Obama's score. Sources: http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011142.php

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Hillary Clinton Vs. Barack Obama (progressivepunch)

Overall Progressive Score: 92% 90%
Aid to Less Advantaged People at Home and Abroad: 98% 97%
Corporate Subsidies 100% N/A
Education, Humanities and the Arts 88% 100%
Environment 92% 100%
Fair Taxation 97% 100%
Family Planning 88% 80%
Government Checks on Corporate Power 95% 97%
Healthcare 98% 94%
Housing 100% 100%
Human Rights & Civil Liberties 82% 77%
Justice for All: Civil and Criminal 94% 91%
Labor Rights 91% 91%
Making Government Work for Everyone, Not Just the Rich or Powerful 94% 90%
War and Peace 80% 86%
=====================================================================================================================================

Hillary Clinton Vs. Barack Obama ADA Progressive Score Comparison (beginning when Obama entered the senate in 2005)

2005 100% 100%
2006 95% 95%

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AFL-CIO pro-labor voting scores Hillary Clinton Vs. Barack Obama (beginning when Obama entered the senate in 2005)

2005 86% 100%
2006 93% 93%
Lifetime 93% 96%

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SEIU Pro-Labor Voting Scores Hillary Clinton Vs. Barack Obama (beginning when Obama entered the senate in 2005)

2005 100% 92%
2006 94% 94%
2007 90% 70%
==========================================================================================================================

[pnwmom]

1. Thank you. They are both good candidates,

as is the whole field. We're fortunate this time around.

[JackORoses]

2. I don't recall that Barack was ever on the board of Wal-Mart for 6 years...

that might be considered Corporate

He didn't vote for the Iraq War either

that would be Conservative

Do we know anyone who did these things?

[Clintonista2]

4. Red Herring

Hillary has refused to accept Wal Mart donations, and while serving on the board she fought strongly against Wal Marts disciminiatory hiring practises. If you have a problem with the poll results, take that up with these organizations. I'm sure you have a much more sound methodology of measuring support of progressive issues :eyes:

[Dr Fate]

7. I see- so she was trying to oppose corrupt corporations from within.

Her tenure was really an anti-corporate, reconaissance mission!!!

I'd like to see the Obama supporters top THAT one!!

But seriously, the polls dont mean shit- what irks people is that she supported the war- it's an all encompassing issue and it is the defining issue of this generation. It's not our fault that it overshadows domestic issues.

I dont know what caused Hill to trust Bush and support his war, but it certainly wasnt anything to do with being "Liberal"-no polls or methodology needed for that one.

But I'm glad that she is good on certain issues- fine by me if she stays in NY and keeps working on them.

How is it a "lie" that she is "corporate" when she was on a corporate board? I dont have a problem with certain corporations or her making a living, but I just dont see the lie.

[aquart]

11. You do know that EVERY business is required to incorporate?

And when you get on your high anti-corporate horse, you are also condemning my sister's small handcrafts store?

As for the war vote, which made me physically ill, BOTH senators from New York voted identically. Do I think they were as disingenuous as they claim? No. The vote was completely political. It stank. Anytime you want to call Hillary on that vote, please include Schumer. They earned it. BUT THAT ISN'T THE SAME AS SAYING THEY WERE FOR THE WAR. It isn't. All of Hillary's training is in negotiation, keeping them talking to keep them from shooting. But it is more convenient for you to ignore her every time she says she would have negotiated.

As for Obama, he talks tough but HE WASN'T THERE. We only know what he says he WOULD have done. But he never did it, did he?

[Dr Fate]

15. We are talking Walmart here, not the Mayberry Feed store.

Walmart-not me- would just assume crush your sister's store if they thought they might make a penny.

What high horse? Did you read in my post where I said I dont have a problem with certain corporations- OR someone making a living? I specifically said "corrupt" corporations as a further clarifier...

I also said is that it is not a "lie" to suggest that Hillary is pro-corporation or "corporate."

[Clintonista2]

32. The "Mayberry Feed store" counts as a "corporation" when it comes to donations

If you really think she's running her campaign with murdochs 5000$ donation, you're delusional. Oh and by the way, "corporate Hillary" refused to accept donations from Wal-Mart.

[redqueen]

36. Required to incorporate?

Really?

[aquart]

8. How many corporate board offers has he rejected?

If nobody ever offered him a seat on a board, we really can't say what his response would be, can we?

But if you tell me WalMart or Microsoft called and he said, "No way," then we have a comparison. Now? Not so much.

He wasn't IN the Senate for that IWR vote, either. So we don't know what his decision would have been if he were in the room with the other senators. Had he BEEN there and voted no, then we'd have a comparison. Now? Not so much.

It's easy to say what you think you would have done...when nobody will ever see you do it.

[Dr Fate]

12. Speculation on what you think he might do, vs. what Hillary did do.

I see a difference between what you say someone "probably would do" vs. what Hillary actually did do.

[Hekate]

3. KnR. Thank you for the reality check. nt

[depakid]

5. A better measure would be the previous Clinton administration

Media consolidation, financial, securities and energy deregulation, logging without laws, welfare deform, The Digital Millenium copyright Act, DOMA- the list goes on and on.

That was a DYSFUNCTIONAL corporatist agenda if ever there was one.

Did the Democratic party a world of good, too didn't it?

[Clintonista2]

6. Hillary is running on her own merits

She was not the president.

[Dr Fate]

9. Then she needs to clarify what she agrees with and what she doesnt.

After all, she is running on her Executive "experience" at Bill's side as well.

Cant have it both ways-either she honed her executive "experience" in the 90's or she had nothing to do with anything Bill did - which is it?

[depakid]

17. One would have to very seriously doubt that their policies differ

Two for the price of one is how it was described- and I think that's we saw- and potentially will see again. More so called "free trade, for example- more offshoring and continuing decline of the manufacturing base and the middle class.

Basically, what we'd have on the policy level is a Nixon or Ford type presidency.

[Armstead]

23. If her last name was Rodham....

...We wouldn't be having this discussion.

Even if she had made it to the Senate on her own merits, she would still be a relative neophyte Senator of the undistinguished category, not the "presumptive nominee."

And if you think she's going to distance herself from Bill and the DLC Corporate crowd once elected, that's wishful thinking.

[aquart]

13. Fair enough.

If you believe she's only a little woman with no independence of mind or spirit. But what would that say about you?

[Dr Fate]

16. I thought that she gained executive experience in the 1990s. Did she not?

I thought that some of her "experience" came from being involved with what Bill was working on...

Much of the 1990's worked out for the Clintons, so I'm not so sure that trying to distance Hillary's 1990's executive experience from Bill's makes sense for every argument...

[donheld]

10. It's high time someone posted this stuff

I'm soooooo tired of all the Hillary bashing.

[aquart]

14. Buckle up, baby. This is only the beginning.

You're gonna feel like a crash test dummy by the end of it.

[eridani]

18. Clinton strategist Mark Penn's clients

http://words-of-power.blogspot.com/2007/10/campaign-08-update-rachel-maddow-smacks.html


Ah, no doubt, but it turns out that Burson-Marsteller's relationship to Blackwater isn't the only disturbing story here. Indeed, the bigger and even more disturbing story is the history of Burson-Marsteller itself.

Here is a transcript of Air America Radio host Rachel Maddow's smackdown of Mark Penn and Burson-Marsteller on the 10-5-07 broadcast of her wonderful weekday news magazine.

Three days after 9/11, the government of Saudi Arabia called Burson-Marsteller.

Terrifying Romanian dictator Nicholas Ceausescu? You guessed it -- Burson-Marsteller.

When a military junta overthrew the government of Argentina in 1976, who did the generals call? Burson-Marsteller.

The government of Indonesia, accused of genocide in East Timor? Quick, someone look up the number of Burson-Marsteller.

Now Burson-Marsteller has their newest marquee public relations client -- Blackwater.

You can kind of see why it is a little bit gross that the CEO of Burson-Marsteller is Hillary Clinton's pollster and chief campaign strategist, Mark Penn. You can kind of see why that is a little disgusting.

[FormerDittoHead]

19. Could I point out that just about all of these votes were during Republican controlled houses? n/t

[Clintonista2]

33. Could I also point out that

The one poll that is tracking the current session of congress, has Obama trailing Hillary by 20%.

[MethuenProgressive]

20. I hope the haters read this - before they just attack you for posting it.

So far, the responses have been rather resonable, and a credit to DU.

[MadHound]

21. Really? Well, many political experts who write in places other than internet chat boards disagree.

<http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070604/berman>
<http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/select.asp?Ind=K02>
And she's even taken bundled, corporate donations, just like Bush did. Even more interesting, they were from Republicans
<http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119025305222133413.html>

Sorry, but Hillary is in the pocket of Corporate America. Which is one big reason so many people simply can't vote for her.

[Clintonista2]

31. Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying but

Are you calling the ADA, the AFL-CIO, and SEIU "internet chat boards"?

[redqueen]

37. ...

"other than internet chat boards"

[MadHound]

39. No, what I'm saying is that real life publications like those I listed above

And not people who selectively post here on DU or other internet chat boards.

[antigop]

22. Ahem......

Hillary Clinton Pushes For More H1B Visas and outsourcing
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UhLBSLLIhUs

Lou Dobbs: Hillary Clinton's Hypocrisy (Part 1)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cLNOSGM2jK4

Lou Dobbs: Hillary Clinton's Hypocrisy (Part 2)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jgdrh2Bc95M

I'm sending these to everyone I know.

[jmp]

24. War and Peace 80%???

I guess you have to slit someone's throat on video to drop below 80%. :eyes:

[mmonk]

25. If she shakes some of the people associated with her campaign

it would help perceptions. Without that, the perceptions will not disappear.

[Larkspur]

26. Rupert Murdoch is one of her many corporate donors

Hillary is the top recipient of corporate dollars.

[Clintonista2]

30. Murdoch has donated to many dems, including:

Ted Kennedy & John Kerry. Also, Obama has taken in more corporate dollars than any other candidate.

[Larkspur]

35. I don't like Obama either

"None of the Above" gets my enthusiastic support.

[Clintonista2]

38. Whether you like him or not, would you agree that Hillary is considered more "corporate" than Obama

on DU?

[LWolf]

27. Of course, her war chest founded on corporate donations,

and her support of NAFTA and war have nothing to do with it.

:eyes:

[baldguy]

28. And Goldwater would be presented as a moderate by today's corporate media.

[SergeyDovlatov]

29. what about timing of the votes?

Remember recent vote where Obama and Hillary waited until after were enough votes to pass and then voted "no". That is not leadership. It is doing the bidding of their corporate sponsors and getting good voting ratings.

What we need to do is to alter their voting system not to show Yes. No. until after voting is completed.

[ProudDad]

34. Gee, some of joe lie-berman's numbers are better than hillary's (n/t)