MI moved its primary ahead of NH, wants NH punished if they move ahead to be first.

[madfloridian]

I have not said much about Michigan, but this is a little much. Governr Granholm, Carl Levin, and Debbie Dingell wrote another letter to the DNC complaining about MH.

Remember the state voted to move to January 15, ahead of NH on January 19. Now they want the DNC to punish NH.

Michigan Democrats Want DNC Explanation

WASHINGTON -- Michigan Democrats want the Democratic National Committee to explain how it would respond if New Hampshire moves up its primary date.

Sen. Carl Levin, Gov. Jennifer Granholm and DNC member Debbie Dingell wrote Friday that the Democrats' process for selecting delegates to the party's 2008 national convention was "spiraling out of control" and said New Hampshire would break the rules if it holds its primary before Jan. 19.

Michigan Democrats have always said that we would abide by the DNC's rules on the timing of the delegate selection primaries and caucuses as long as other states abided by them. That is now no longer the case," they wrote in a letter to DNC Chairman Howard Dean.

Run that by me again? Michigan changed their primary and says they would have abided by the rules if others did?

Gee, I wonder why the primary problem is "spiraling out of control?"

Couldn't be Florida and Michigan causing it, could it?

Dingell of Michigan, and Wasserman Schultz and Hastings of Florida are state chairs of the Clinton campaign. They are all much involved in this moving of primaries.

Nelson of Florida and Hastings of Florida have filed a lawsuit against Dean and the DNC. Levin and Nelson filed a bill to have regional primaries after all the attention they have gotten.

Could it be they are the ones causing the conflict? Nah...

[Purveyor]

1. Well, would New Hampshire be breaking the rules also if they moved their primary date?

[gateley]

2. Forgive the dumb question, but what does a state gain by holding their

primaries earlier? I understand Iowa and New Hampshire being first are a tradition, but I don't understand why the other states feel it benefits them by moving their dates.

Thanks.

[sandnsea]

9. Money buys big state elections

And people who don't think they're going to do well in a small state, like Iowa, would try to marginalize that race by focusing attention on a big money race that they could more easily win. It doesn't have as much to do with the individual states as it does the canidate manipulating our elections.

[madfloridian]

11. You got it.

:hi:

[robinlynne]

3. Meanwhile the republicans force a nazi into the FEC, and laugh all the way to the bank.

[LisaM]

4. Iowa, New Hampshire. Nevada, and South Carolina

I think the obvious issue here is that those states are not very representative of the demographics of this country. They're not geographically representative either. None of those is an industrial state (well, New Hampshire used to have some industry), they're not the most diverse states (with the possible exception of SC) and most of them aren't even blue states! People can parse rules all they want, but someone besides Iowa has got to start choosing our candidates, because they have done a really crappy job for a long time now.

[madfloridian]

7. Is there another way to handle it?

Like changing the rules instead of planning with the GOP like Florida did, and having a Democratic governor sign the bill, like MI did?

Instead of suing the DNC using money our party needs for the 50 states...why can't they work to change it without making it so personal?

[LisaM]

8. I agree that they should not have this infighting

Maybe they need to do a rotation, but I think it would make a lot more sense to pick four states that best represent the diversity, jobs, education, and ethnic lines of the country.

[madfloridian]

10. Well, they did add two more diverse states, NV and SC

and thought they were at least trying. The DNC wanted to still keep it possible that lesser candidates could still have a chance.

It is as Dean said a battle between politicians. It is a power play.

[LisaM]

13. Nevada doesn't strike me as very diverse

Other than South Carolina, I don't think any of the states has a significant black population.

[madfloridian]

14. Union and Hispanic.

MI and FL are making power plays. The DNC is trying to make it far for all the states.

Power and money win always, though.

[sandnsea]

12. Nonsense

You could say that about Iowa & NH, but not NV and SC. SC has industry and diversity, it's also been hit as hard by outsourcing of the textile industry as Michigan has. Nevada has as diverse a hispanic population as Florida, relies on tourism, has environmental issues, etc. Michigan and Florida bring absolutely nothing to an early primary race, it's complete bullshit.

[petersjo02]

15. Maybe you should move to Iowa, Lisa

Then we could be more diverse--if diversity is defined as narrow minded. That would be you, girl. Iowa has a literate and extremely well educated population. And, by the way, I saw several black people in the grocery store AND Panera's today. I suspect they are literate and well educated, too.

[Peregrine Took]

5. Well, I'd rather have Michigan over Iowa or New Hampshire, that's for sure.

Look what happened with those two last time - they gave us the "electable" one except he wasn't. My first preference would be California.

[sandnsea]

6. What is wrong with the people in our party

Why are they letting the Clintons steamroll eveything like this. It is just stunning. And the Deaniacs who said this is the shit they opposed 4 years ago - turning around and lining up behind it because 'we need to win'. I will never understand human beings and I'm not sure I ever want to.

[PurityOfEssence]

16. Simple: it's the curse of the downtrodden

Much as I'm a firm believer that everything has many influences, so very, very many stem from this inferiority complex wrapped in a feeling of victimhood entitlement and slathered with a disdain for "the man".

The system's rigged, therefore there's no moral obligation to play by the rules. Those who've been hurt have the right of redress at any moment of their choosing, and anyone who points out the untenability of such a free-for-all is an ultra-conservative fiend. They're NOT inferior, they're not, they're not, they're just not, even though no one said they were.

It explains one of the big elements of the love of Hillary: it stems from her and her husband being undeniably picked on by the right, so they belong in the great league of victims. It explains how so few people here have a problem with Gravel being proud of stiffing credit card companies. It explains the childish fixation to "get even" with the reactionaries for their persecution of Clinton by shoving another down their throats with vengeful glee. It explains otherwise liberal and progressive women wanting her to win. It explains the ire and vitriol so many have when their judgment is questioned. It explains a lot.

The Florida and Michigan hijackings are an extreme embarrassment: these people belong to a private organization with RULES. If they didn't like the rules--which in this instance suck--they should have worked within the organization to change them. People who don't get this are ethically challenged.

To far too many, it's the cosmic right of the abused to take whatever they damn well please, even though it hurts those of us in every other state and all of the candidates except the ones with the most money. It's disgusting.

[madfloridian]

17. On C-Span tonight...Dean talked about MI and FL

He did a thorough job of explaining why the 4 smaller states were needed. He said MI and FL and other larger states could perhaps be put on a rotating basis by 2012, while still keeping a core of smaller states, getting more diverse in the front.

I wish everyone could have seen it tonight from John Hopkins. He did an excellent job. But it won't be talked about here at DU because I posted about it and because it is about him and not another candidate from 04. Old feelings die hard.

He gave a total picture of how a Demcratic Party should act and look. And I think hubby and I were the only ones at DU watching.