In case you missed it, Hillary ripped Obama a new ass on Iran today

[Herman Munster]

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=3691

This week Senator Obama criticized Senator Clinton’s vote to designate the Iranian Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist organization.

Senator Obama was silent on the measure when it was considered on the floor. Despite serving on the Foreign Affairs Committee, he wasn’t involved in Senate negotiations or discussions over the bill’s language. (See: Huffington Post) He didn’t speak out against it before it was voted on – he didn’t even return from the campaign trail to vote. He didn’t speak out against it at a nationally televised debate that night or defend himself from an attack during the debate on his missed vote. In fact, he waited more than nine hours after the vote was over to issue a statement about it.

If Senator Obama believed the measure was as dangerous as he says, wouldn’t he have had some obligation to stand up, speak out, and fight against it?

So perhaps something else is at work: politics.

As Senator Obama’s closest ally in the Senate, Illinois Senator Dick Durbin, said, "If I thought there was any way it could be used as a pretense to launch an invasion of Iran I would have voted no."

As Senator Obama abandons the politics of hope in favor of attack politics, Senator Clinton remains focused on her vision for America – the kind of vision that today is attracting the key endorsement of civil rights hero Congressman John Lewis.

[Egnever]

1. This is a dumb thing to fight him on

The backlash she has received from this vote already has her twisting like a pretzel. God knows why she wants to bring it up again.

[Herman Munster]

4. no

this is a dumb thing for obama to attack on. He has no credibility. He's been an absentee do-nothing senator while he's been running for prez.

If I was in Illionois, I'd be pissed. Say what you will about Hillary, she campaigns around her senate duties and flies back DC as often as she can to do her job. What a novel concept, eh?

[Divine Discontent]

8. "he has no credibility" "absentee do-nothing"

her ties to corporations and getting Rupert Murdoch doing a fund raiser for her speaks volumes about the junior senator from New York.

He's down 20 points, and he's running for President so he has to be out there as much as possible. you DON'T speak for the people of Illinois, so your opinion is moot. I know people IN Illinois and they are extremely understanding of what he's trying to do - you on the other hand do not choose to see the need for him to campaign and return if necessary, nor do I think you really even care. He's not even my 1st or even 2nd choice now, but your attack on him is baseless. I think Sen. Clinton is trying to turn her negative into HIS - a la - the GOP tricks of Karl Rove.

[incapsulated]

10. Sorry

He left himself wide open for this. Wide open.

This isn't dirty tricks ala Rove, it's politics. It's been politics for over 200 years.

Let's see if he has a comeback other than, "oh yeah, well you are a warmongering bitch" because she just schooled him. And I like Obama. But this was a rookie move going after her on this when he wasn't even involved, on his OWN committee, other than saying it sucked afterwards.

[Dawgs]

47. Hillary politics = Bush politics - I see no difference between the two.

Obama was right, she's "Bush-Lite".

[Alizaryn]

54. That's where I am at this point too.

I just can't seem to get around those feelings about her.

[incapsulated]

66. Cute but stupid

And it rhymes.

Look, if you think saying: "hey if this vote was so horrible and you are so upset about it, why haven't you said a word about this until after I voted on it? You are on the foreign relations committee. You are a sitting Senator. You didn't even bother to vote on it" is "like Bush" then your world must be filled with Roves. It's a rather obvious question, if you cared so much, how come you had nothing to say until now? How come you didn't bother to vote yourself?

What is she supposed to do, ask Obama for forgiveness? She thinks her vote was right.

I think her vote was wrong but he is in no position to attack her on it if he doesn't bother to even bring it up until after the fact.

[Laurab]

71. He didn't "bother" to vote for it because it wasn't supposed to be voted on

when it was. Harry Reid changed the date of the vote. I wish Obama had voted on it, but he's not psychic. I'm not certain that he has the right to criticize her vote, either, but I do think it's unfair to say "he didn't bother to vote for it", when he had no way of knowing that vote was taking place.

I believe he would have voted against it, but I think his criticism would carry more weight if he had been there for the vote. Still, it's not that he "didn't bother".

[incapsulated]

72. Forget the vote

This was in the works for a while.

Did he speak out against it? Did he pipe up at his own committee meetings? Did he issue a statement against it before the vote? Did he bring it up at the debates?

I know I was very pissed off when I heard about this and would have been hollering about it long before it came to my opponent voting for it.

He can say it was wrong but he opens himself up to this sort of counter attack and it nullifies anything he has to say. The fact that, for whatever reason, he didn't get back for the vote just seals it. If it's that important, you drop everything else and vote.

[Alizaryn]

76. He has stated that it is one of the problems

that comes with running for president that he was in NH and that the vote was not a "scheduled" vote.

[rodeodance]

17. OBAMA (the Sentor NOT voting) is being critical of Clinton!! He brings it up , NOT clinton.

...This week Senator Obama criticized Senator Clinton’s vote

[Dawgs]

49. Uh, you do understand that him not voting doesn't mean he would have also voted for it?

BTW, it was Reid that told him that the vote wasn't taking place that day. Did you expect him to not campaign and wait for the vote to take place; even if it might have taken place for days?

[Dawgs]

50. Hillary was wrong to vote for the Iraq war, an Iran war, and criticizing Obama.

Bush politics all over again.

[HughMoran]

56. Hypocrisy is a good topic in a political campaign, no?

I think she is responding to his attack against her, correct?

In that case, I think pointing out his hypocrisy (i.e., not voting on something he "supposedly" felt strongly about) is fair game, don't you?

[incapsulated]

2. Ball's in Obama's court now.

Now, no one really thought she was going to just let this go, did you, lol?

[Divine Discontent]

3. excuse me while I spew

why?

first few seconds into that link I see her staff put this on the hillaryclinton.com website ---

"Yesterday’s FOX News/Opinion Dynamics Poll puts Senator Clinton at the 50 percent mark"

Fox? They make me SICK to my stomach.


I don't need to elaborate further why they're utter bullshit. This is coming from the "news" channel that called the 2000 election for junior dumbass.

Sorry, but once enough "negative campaigning" as her staff calls it, comes out on the Senator, I believe the LIBERAL Democratic party that she says she's not one, because SHE doesn't like the word 'liberal', will totally turn to either Obama, Edwards, or Biden (or Gore). I will vote her only in the GE and only if it's close. I won't waste my time if she's way up or way down, sadly, for America's working poor, homeless and disabled, I think if she still holds out and gets the nomination then we'll see further erosion of worker's rights that have been nearly decimated under Der Fuhrer's misadministration, just at a smaller rate than if one of the hyper conservatives gets in office, like Freddy or Mittens.

[Tellurian]

29. So, is all your BS..

[ripple]

5. hillaryclinton.com is your source?

Please tell me you have something more than that.

[incapsulated]

7. It's a statement from her campaign

I think her webiste is the best source for that, no?

[Schema Thing]

75. wtf?

[JackORoses]

6. apparently in Shillary's world not voting is worse than voting for an escalation towards Iran War

[DURHAM D]

9. Not voting means you are a wuss. n/t

[Forkboy]

14. I think we've had enough tough guy talk to last a lifetime over the last seven years.

No?

[BootinUp]

12. What escalation?

I haven't heard any Republicans escalating jack shit as a result of this vote. I think the left has forgotten how to read or don't understand what "military instruments" being stricken and replaced with "favoring diplomacy" means.

[cuke]

77. The "avalanche" of non-binding resolutions calling for diplomacy with Iran

before, we had none. Now, we have one. That represents an escalation of diplomacy.

Hillary-Haters obviously don't like diplomacy.

[Lucinda]

82. Olbermann used the "military instruments" phrase the other night

in commenting on Clinton. Surprised me. There still seems to be a great deal of misinformation out there.

[rodeodance]

18. Tell me why he should be critical ot others when he does NOT bother to show up and do his work?

[dsc]

39. I can't speak for her world

but in mine it is. This was a fairly tame, if unnecessary, resolution. That said, you can't say something is evil if you didn't do jack to stop it, despite being in about the best position to do so.

[BootinUp]

11. Good one. I've been saying this for a week now.

[TheUniverse]

13. Politics of Hope...

Coming from someone who voted for both the Iraq and Iran resolution. What does she have hope for? World War 3?

[rodeodance]

19. The HOPE slogan is Obama's

[rodeodance]

15. This surprizes me--his NOT being involved at all. He should not complain since

he did not vote-------and he was a Senator this time.

[ShortnFiery]

16. Rah

:thumbsdown:

[Inuca]

20. Rather disingenuous arguments

- as far as I can remember, there was limited floor discussion, so many of the senators opposed to this did speak
- it was NOT brought before the SFRC, it was one of the things that Webb was very pissed about. I obviously have no way of knowing about the negotiations that took place behind closed doors and who was involved
- the missed vote was no doubt unfortunate fro Obama. But it has been widely known that the vote was announced very late, that he was under the weather that day, and that there was a major debate taking place that evening. Under these circumstances I think that his absence is mostly excusable, definitely understandable, and not something that in fairness should be thrown in his face (fairness? what's that?)
- "he waited more than nine hours after the vote was over to issue a statement about it". WOW! 9 hours! I remember the vote took place around 10 in the morning and by 6 that evening he had not yet issued a statement? What an undecided wuss! Incidentally, the Webb resolution that HRC is cosponsoring and that she now mentions almost as if it is her "baby" and that she keeps referring to as proof of her pure as snow intentions on Iran, was introduced in early March. Waiting roughly SEVEN months before you publicly decide is fine, but waiting 9 hours to issue a public statement is a mark of indecision?
- IMHO the only argument that stands up is Durbin's vote, a vote that troubles me and have to good (nor bad for that matter) explanation for.

[CTyankee]

33. Well, it seems to me that if Obama made such an issue of HC's vote on Iraq, he should make every

effort to be on record one way or another on the Iran vote, particularly since it was watered down from militaristic to diplomatic (that's what we want don't we? Don't we?).

Sorry, but at a certain point you gotta vote and go on record. It goes the same for HC as it does for BO, IMHO.

[Inuca]

40. I agree that a vote would have been better than,,,

... a statement. No disagreement from me here. And the resolution that was voted on was indeed significantly watered down from the original version. But it is still bad.

[CTyankee]

64. Is it bad in your view because it is suspect, being a repub. initiative?

I would rather see a Dem initiative myself. Now we are in a situation with Iran that will be difficult to resolve because the repubs have made it so. But we should not shrink from the challenge. I am remembering JFK and the missile crisis. He rejected a peremptory air strike in favor of a diplomatic solution (going to our western European allies, the OAS and the UN) coupled with a show of military strength (the naval blockade). His was a stunning victory for the U.S. and indeed the entire world. We were pretty damn close to a nuclear confrontation with the Soviet Union, a very scary time!

[Inuca]

79. It is bad in my view because it is

sabre rattling. Less than in the original version, but IMHO declaring part of another contry's army a terrorist organization and then say that it helps diplomatic efforts (which is what HRC has said) is just plain wrong.

[CTyankee]

83. An excellent point! So it looks like HC and other Dems were in a

"damned if you do, damned if you don't situation," being forced either to vote yes or no or have to explain why. All the more reason for us to get out of this insane administration! We cannot allow our foreign policy to be guided this way. I certainly hope for LOTS better from the next, Democratic, administration!

[Maribelle]

21. I disapprove of the title of your OP

And I do not like the fact that you've so easily succumbed to the MSM main goal in this primary cycle: to make the negative seem as nasty as possible.

Neither Hillary nor Obama are this nasty.

[DeepModem Mom]

43. I agree. The level of discourse in this forum is often regrettable...

and a subject line like this shouts that out to the world.

[Dawgs]

22. So she's criticizing him for not being against something she voted for?

Sounds like "Bush-Lite" to me.

WTF!!

[Maribelle]

24. No she isn't. She is simply discrediting his pomp because he didn't care enough to vote either way.

This isn't rocket science.

[Dawgs]

44. Bullshit. That's exactly what she's doing. It's the same shit Rush, Sean, and Bush do.

[Evergreen Emerald]

31. no silly, but of course you know this: she was responding to his criticism

of her vote. His glass house was just shattered.

[jmp]

23. But she voted FOR it.

Whatever Obama didn't do pales in comparison to giving Bush cover to launch another war.

[Maribelle]

25. "Whatever Obama didn't do" from anti-Pelosi screamers is a frail and transparent argument.

But then, we truly don't expect more.

[jmp]

28. Pelosi's problem is what she DOES do ...

As in scheduling votes for funding the war. If Pelosi did NOTHING, it would be a vast improvement.

Hillary needs to do a better job recruiting shills, because all the ones on here are lightweights.

[Maribelle]

32. Not to insult you, but you're flopping around like a fish out of water.

The biggest screams against her are for what she hasn't done.

[jmp]

41. Lying about the facts does not change them.

You made an assertion and it blew up in your face. Most people would have the good sense to walk away at that point.

[Maribelle]

65. What assertion did I make that blew up in my face? You're wrong.

What I said was incontrovertable truth. "Whatever Obama didn't do" from anti-Pelosi screamers is a frail and transparent argument.

[ihelpu2see]

26. Hillary should have done the same thing as Obama, but her excuse is "Its non-binding"

well then dont give it the time of day. Why waist our time, thats right you and Obama work for us and as far as I can tell you are not doing the job we put you in to office to do by voting on crap like this or voting on the Move-on ad ( I know that Obama and Hillary did not vote on that one) or putting forward a vote condemning Rush... these things waist tax payer time and money...

[sniffa]

27. you're kiLLing me

:rofl:

if that's an ass kicking, then bush won a mandate in 2004.

[flvegan]

30. Hillary throws the ball, the lapdogs chase it.

Be sure you bring it back to her so she can throw it again.

[Armstead]

34. Disappointed in Durbin but also disappointed in Obama

I would think that Durbin -- one of our best Senators -- would have had better sense than to vote for the Iram War Resolution.

However, Obama.s excuse for not being there to lead the fight against it -- or at least vote against it -- was also kind of lame.

[maximusveritas]

36. How so?

Harry Reid specifically said the vote wouldn't be anytime soon. How is it lame for Obama to believe him and go to NH, thereby missing the vote?
Am I missing something or are you?

[Armstead]

37. One would hope that as a senator he would be in better touch

I'm not an Obama basher. I would much prefer him over a certain front-runner.

However, in this case, he should have had a better sense of what was going on at his job, and made the effort to get back to DC.

[Dawgs]

45. "Made the effort to get back to DC"

How would he have done that from NH?

[Cameron27]

58. How long does it take to fly back to DC from NH

by private jet? I'm asking that in the context of the importance that Obama's attached to the vote.

[Cameron27]

35. Good comeback

and she has a point. If the vote was crucial enough for him to attack her for voting yes, then he should have been in the senate to vote no.

[madmom]

38. Obama is not doing the job he is being paid to do (representing his constituents) if he can't

do this and run a campaign how will he ever be able to handle world affairs and domestic affairs at the same time? He is still a senator he has a job to do, his campaign should be second, not the other way around!!!!!

[Inuca]

42. True in principle, but not very realistic

All senators running face the same problem, and they all miss votes. I do not know what the percentahes are, but it is a fact nevertheless.

I keep wondering why in this day and age they cannot adopt a system that would allow them to vote while not physically present. It's not like anybody would be able to falsify the vote or anything like that, especially for the reltively small number of senators. Wouldn't that make sense?

[Dawgs]

46. You do know that Reid told him the vote wasn't going to take place that day, right?

[Cameron27]

48. Do you have a link to what Reid said?

[Dawgs]

51. No.

[Cameron27]

52. Thanks, I'll try to find it.

[Dawgs]

55. My understanding is that the day before Obama left Harry Reid took the vote off the table.

And put it off indefinetely.

On that same day Obama left for New Hampshire.

The next day Harry Reid put it up for a vote.

[Cameron27]

60. Thanks, I can't find his quotes, only that he tabled the vote.

[BootinUp]

61. I remember the quote

it included the instructive comment parphased: " ...tonight may shed some light on what will happen"

IOW, he was blocking it unless major changes were going to be made and would not reconsider it until that time.

[cuke]

78. Sounds like the "promise" the cop made to Sen Widestance to keep it private

Even if Reid made that promise on his mother's grave, it was unwise for Obama to depend on it. The fact is that Reid does not control what happens on the Senate floor. He has a lot of power, but not absolute control.

And, this defense for Obama's non-vote makes it obvious that Obama knew that this was an issue, and that it would be coming up for a vote at some time in the near future. Yet, Obama failed to speak out about it. Instead, he held a protest non-vote but he didn't tell anyone about it until 9 hours later.

Has anyone ever heard of a protest that isnt announced until hours after it was over?

Face it; Obama did not show any leadership on this issue, which he now claims is a prelude to war. He should have used his much touted powers of Unity to organize a protest.

[jenmito]

63. I found a person who wrote this, but I don't know where she got it from:

"Obama missed the vote because he understood it was not going to happen when it did. It “suddenly” appeared on the Senate floor for a vote while Senator Obama was en route to New Hampshire. Harry Reid’s son works for Clinton. Hmmm. Dirty politics. How nice to be able to call Obama on not voting and allowing Clinton to support this resolution when Obama would have voted against it, as did his colleagues Dodd and Biden."

Katie, St. Paul, MN (Sent Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:35 AM)

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/10/11/406982.aspx

[maximusveritas]

70. Here's a link

I'll actually provide the quote this time so I don't mistkaenly get called a liar again.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?r110:1:./temp/~r110IRswkQ:e130345:

We have tried to work something out on the Kyl-Lieberman amendment and the Biden amendment. We have been unable to do that.

We have been very close a few times, but we have just been informed that Senator Biden will not have a vote anytime in the near future. There will not be a vote on the other one anytime in the near future.

[Cameron27]

73. Thanks. That's pretty clear,

and I can't fault Obama for leaving then. I still think it's fair to ask why he didn't get back on his jet and return to DC if he thought the vote was so crucial. Traveling from NH wouldn't take that long.

I think going after Clinton for the vote was a political blunder. I was solidly behind him on this and wouldn't have questioned his absence, if he hadn't tried to use the vote as an attack. Just my opinion.

[Bjorn Against]

53. So you criticize Obama for attack politics, in an OP in which you say Hillary ripped Obama a new ass

I am not a fan of either candidate, but the irony is too much.

[Dawgs]

57. So Obama is playing politics, Durbin speaks for Obama, and Hillary isn't a war-monger.

:crazy:

[sellitman]

59. Shame on both of them.

Hillary for her vote

and Obama for not voting.

[Forkboy]

62. I'm not seeing said ass ripping.

And he waited a whole nine hours to issue a statement? What a complete bastard! :eyes:

[Semper_FiFi]

67. K&R. Obama is asleep at the wheel yet still is critical of others who are active.

Obama looks more and more as if he is completely out of his league. I had once thought he might make a fine president, but his behavior is making me doubt that he is ready to serve. If he was so opposed to the vote he should have gotten his ass in gear and VOTED. Don't give me any excuses. Shame on him! (but no longer surprising).

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

68. What possible good is advanced by the title of this OP?

[Clintonista2]

69. K&R, Obama's smear campaign against Hillary is shameless.

I'm glad she's fighting back!

[Inuca]

80. Was that meant as sarcasm? n/t

[Clintonista2]

81. Nope. nt.

[Inuca]

84. Too bad n/t

[jgraz]

74. Oooh, I really hope Obama goes after the issues Hillary has been silent on

He could riff for a week on the cowardly way that Hillary has padded her voting record in the Senate.

[AZ Criminal JD]

85. It is better than not having a voting record

Which Obama had both in the Illinois Senate and now in the U.S. Senate.

[SergeyDovlatov]

86. Dumb thing to do

Both Obama and Clinton are trying to court AIPAC directed fund-raising.
Not willing to vote "No" and criticizing Hillary for voting Yes is fullish.

It is an internet age. Everybody can check and recheck anything. We don't have to rely on media reporting anymore