Deleted message

[Name removed]

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cuban_Liberal]

1. Other. n/t

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cuban_Liberal]

5. Huh?

Who is that directed toward? :shrug:

[dontstopthere]

9. look above it

the reference to greeniacs...i assume he referring to deaniacs and mixing it with the green party. it doesnt make too much sense though, seeing as how dean isn't in the green party.

[Cuban_Liberal]

13. The comment above it is mine.

That makes even LESS sense, attack-wise...

:wtf:

:hi:

[dontstopthere]

17. nt

[JI7]

6. this post doesn't do any good

as a kerry supporter i ask you not do this. i don't like when it's done to kerry supporters and you shouldn't do it to supporters of others candidates.

[Guaranteed]

10. I'm more centrist than Kerry is. I'm just looking for someone

with the courage to stand up for what's right. That's all.

[Deansspecialinterest]

12. Here's your answer

Kerry's being associated, fairly or no, with this type of contempt for the progressive wing of the party. His position as the Democratic party's golden boy has a negative impact as well, as many blame him (again, I'm not saying whether it is fair or not, though I will say that I think it's certainly understandable) for the way their candidate, and even their votes, were marginalized and ignored by the DNC less than a week into the primary schedule.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

37. Well that was completely unnecessary

as well as inaccurate, since the post you responded to is from a Kerry supporter.

[pmbryant]

3. It bothers me, but it's not yet a time for unity so it's not disheartening

So I had to vote for 'other'.

If Kerry were to become the nominee and a few months later, the hostility were still at the level it is now, then that would be disheartening. But we're a long way from that point yet.

Meanwhile, primary politics continues and this is a normal part of that pattern...

--Peter

[Guaranteed]

7. Long, accurate memories. nt

[hedgetrimmer]

71. I like this post. n/t

[WI_DEM]

8. frankly

Dean got much more scrutiny on the pages of DU than Kerry. Now Kerry folks are feeling it towards their guy--probably because he is the front runner.

[seaglass]

19. There's been hostility on these pages towards Kerry since

2002. Maybe you weren't here then or didn't care.

[Guaranteed]

50. Well, who can blame us?

We were against the war, and were looking to him for some help. He abandoned us.

[seaglass]

53. It was a statement of fact.

He didn't abandon me. I voted for him for Senator and I hope to vote for him for President. I was against the war, he made the decision that he thought was right at the time and though I was disappointed I've learned to accept it.

I'm not interested in blaming you, you can think however you like - it makes no difference to me.

[Guaranteed]

63. Well, as long as you recognize that we've been consistent.

This isn't anything new.

[Adelante]

47. No, no

Kerry got blasted all through the fall, as I remember it by Dean supporters. I wasn't supporting Kerry then, but it was an all out battle and daily.

[DemBones DemBones]

86. Yes, I remember when it was war on Kerry here. n/t

[Rowdyboy]

11. Currently on this forum, Kucinich draws about 1/3 of the vote.....

Nothing wrong with that, but it isn't representative of the Democratic party as a whole in any way. Don't let it bother you. When the time comes, most reasonable people will come together to
(to steal a phrase I love)

THROW THOSE BUSH BASTARDS OUT!

[HFishbine]

14. Other

There's no more hostility to Kerry than there has been on various occasions towards every other candidate (except, perhaps Carol Moseley Braun).

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

15. I think for the most part it is sheer hypocrisy as evidenced

Some people won't vote for Kerry over IWR or Patriot act but will gladly transfer their votes to Edwards who voted for both and was instrumental in drafting one.

Some people won't vote for Kerry because an AIPAC lobbyist is now supporting him but had no problem with that AIPAC lobbyist being on Dean's team.

Some people won't vote for Kerry because he got campaign donations from Newscorp while other popular candidates did as well.

Some people won't vote for Kerry because they are ABK even though they claim an ABB vote to be totally unprincipled.

Some people won't vote for Kerry because they view him as an opportunist and therefore will be voting for Edwards, a candidate that began his campaign for president from the moment he hit the floors of the Senate in his first term.


Some people won't vote for Kerry because he won't talk about Skull and Bones but would have gladly voted for a guy who sealed his gubernatorial papers. Let alone a fraternity is a personal choice while gubernatorial papers are in the public interest. Guess we only want ASHCROFT out of our lives, not Kerry's.

YOu can continue to reach out. I'll just let the mutiny be.

If we ever go to war, Pete...I'll gladly share the trenches with you...some people can fend for themselves twisting every way in the wind with their so called principles.

In fairness, the Kucinich supporters seem to at least be in touch with their principles.

[unfrigginreal]

26. Some won't vote for him because they believe he's a phony

and it would be hypocritcal if they did otherwise.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

27. But you would have gladly supported a guy that locked environmentalists

out when developers came calling?

[Egnever]

66. Hell yes I would have casuse your meme is garbage

Vermont ranks in the top 6 of the nation in both environmental protection and economy.

So the same sad song you keep singing means abso;lutely nothing in the long run. Its a great hit piece to quote some pissed off environmentalist with an axe to grind cause his favorite pet cause wasnt bowed down to but when you look at the over all picture Dean did a GREAT job of balancing both the environment and the work force.

*** Seven states rank in the top 15 for both economic and
environmental health. Vermont, Rhode Island and Minnesota
rank in the top six on both lists. Other "top performers"
with high marks on both scales are Colorado, Maryland,
Maine, and Wisconsin.


http://csf.colorado.edu/envtecsoc/2000/msg00539.html

And a link to the pdf of the full report

http://greenplans.rri.org/resources/pubs/sos_appendices.html

nice hit piece though just the same

[NNN0LHI]

32. And some won't vote for Kerry because they know that he will...

...without a doubt will send Chimpy packing his ass back to Waco in November.

Don

[unfrigginreal]

36. You better get that Demdar or GOPdar tuned...

you've been barking up the wrong tree on that one for months now. I appreciate the interest though.

[NNN0LHI]

52. Hit a nerve, did I? n/t

[unfrigginreal]

57. Not at all

Just acknowledging your implication and noting that this isn't the first time. Probably won't be the last either.

[HuskerDem]

41. Pu dum pum............ good one!

Don't you know we were all supposed to go down in a flaming glorious fit of purity, principle and self satisfaction?

Win the general election? What the hell are we thinking?

[goobergunch]

64. Can I borrow your crystal ball? (n/t)

[hedgetrimmer]

72. I like this post. n/t

[George_Bonanza]

97. Bravo

Some Dean supporters became so enamoured with the campaign that they deluded themselves into thinking Dean was an actual progressive, while they believed all his rhetoric about Kerry being a corporate insider (a man who chairs the Small Business Committee and has never taken PAC money in his senatorial races?). The term "status quo man" or whatever is purely subjective bulldink about how an individual feels towards a candidate. It is not backed up by facts or any sort of reliable data.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

16. DU is totally and completely irrelevant to the realworld campaign

That became obvious to me once people started voting.

[CWebster]

18. Ahhh

some people are not readily rounded up to line up behind the annoited one who voted to go along with Bush, as a vote against Bush?

War hero? Someone who enlisted in an unjust and widely protested war, while others fled the country rather than kill, or spent time in prison as COs? War hero? Someone who upon his return from the brutality of war rejected his war hero status as a deception, but who now plays it up as if it was the ultimate measure of worthiness? War hero, while the country was dragged into another quagmire, and the patriotic drums of war fever were banging night and day and that fucking war hero voted to support it and struts about as a war hero while our young are dying...

He makes me fucking sick, and you ask why?

[HuskerDem]

40. Except when their annointed one was the annointed one..............

Then I seem to recall being told we were republicans, we should give up and get on board Howard's bus, he had it locked up, we were supporting hopeless candidates,...........

I recall one very hot post proclaimg:

Might as well face it: Howard Dean will be our nominee

What heady, heady days huh?

It's possible to object to a war and have pride in your service. There's nothing admirable about Bush's draft dodging or anyone elses for that matter. Especially those who did it in cowardly ways. I can at least respect the people who burned their draft cards openly in the streets. That is standing up like a man, standing on principle, not ducking out like a snotty little brat.

You think Bush is so great you keep him. Let us know where you live so we can send him to go be your local dog catcher or some other equally fine position.

[CWebster]

46. Dean was never annoited

the party insiders despised him. All the publicity he garnered he earned through his own accompliwhment. That is why Kerry and Edwards ain't nothing but echo chambers of Dean's script.

[HuskerDem]

92. Like Hell

He was endorsed by hundreds of insiders, the cream of the crop of insiders as a matter of fact.

Dean as an "outsider" was ALWAYS a false bill of goods. But people sure bought it, lock stock and barrel.

[hedgetrimmer]

73. I like this post. n/t

[Sly Kal]

20. other

Kerry is a extremely unsavory candidate. The general public doesn't know that because they are not paying attention the way people here pay attention.

[hedgetrimmer]

74. I like this post. n/t

[lovedems]

21. While this is primary politics.

It still bugs the heck out of me.

He deserves some scrutiny being the front-runner but not hostility. Some of the hateful threads about Kerry surprise me and he wasn't even my first choice. I for one am proud of all of the men who took on this challenge and am proud to call them democrats.

[DinahMoeHum]

22. It's the "Nothing-But-The-Best-For-The-Oppressed" syndrome.

Too many of us at DU want a "perfect" candidate.

In your dreams.

It's been said that "the perfect is the enemy of the good enough"

I still say: Anybody But Bush/Cheney

And if Kerry does go on to win the nomination, if anyone here want's to bad-mouth him afterwards - I DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT.

Eyes on the prize, everyone.

Bush/Cheney: Out the Door in 2004


:kick:

[Walt Starr]

23. I have become a single issue voter in the primaries

My single issue is voting for the candidate most likely to defeat Kerry.

[mermaid]

60. Props To You, Dude!! Welcome Aboard The Edwards Wagon!!

n/t

[Crunchy Frog]

24. I think that it's mostly because

he's the front runner, and he was not the first choice of the vast majority of people on this board. I think it's natural that there's going to be alot of anger and hostility at this point. Also, I think that for alot of people he represents the Washington establishment that many, including myself, have become very frustrated and angry with.

Right now, alot of people are still grieving for the candidate that represented their dreams, or else have a candidate who is in fierce competition with Kerry for the nomination. Eventually the vast majority of us will come together and unite behind our candidate to defeat Bush.

[vision]

25. I don't hate him but

he let me down.

He voted for IWR, NCLB, the Patriot Act and except for the past six months or so has not be a passionate voice of criticism of Bush. I am sure I have missed some of what he has done. But what he has not done disturbs me.

He said that he would hold Bush responsible for the IWR before he voted for it. And yet after it Kerry has missed a large peercentage of votes. Kerry has not been a leader on the Senate floor in block many if not most of the Republicans bills. Byrd has been there, Durbin has been there, and others but the guy who said he would hold Bush responsible has not.

How is not voicing an opinion on Repub bills, by not being there to vote, hold Bush responsible? How is not leading filibuster after filbuster stopping the destructive Bush agenda holding Bush responsible? How is keeping his knowledge of the BFEE close to his chest helping the Republic?

I also hold the other Senators to the similar standards which is why I am not excited about our top choices. Sen. Graham at least had the guts to air some of the dirty laundry and I respect him for that. DK has missed hardly any votes and been a leader on the House floor.

That is where my dislike of Kerry is coming from.

[Padraig18]

28. Justifed, by and large.

I'm amused.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[revcarol]

30. He has been Bush's nice little lap dog for three years.

Occasionally he has jumped off the lap, but not when it was important.

He gathered up millions in $2000 a plate donations, totally ignoring ordinary people; thought he was entitled to the nomination based on his distant past record; he waffles and refuses to be direct, so everyone can say he's on their side of the issues.....etc. etc.

SO MANY REASONS, SO LITTLE TIME.

[Atlant]

31. What RevCarol just said... (NT)

[Desertrose]

55. I'll ditto that revcarol & Atlant

why settle for Kerry when we can have a for real candidate like Kucinich...who actually offers change we so desperately need.....

tis a puzzlement :shrug:



Peace
DR

[hedgetrimmer]

75. I like this post. n/t

[Tinoire]

83. What Revcarol said! n/t

[redqueen]

96. What revcarol said

:thumbsup:

[littlejoe]

33. I can't figure out the hostility either.

On every thread I post, I receive an incredible amount of hostility. Like you, I have the hide of a rhinocerous.

[mermaid]

59. That Is Because John Kerry NEVER Sold YOU and YOUR PEOPLE Down The River!!

ENDA. John Kerry does not support a transgender-inclusive version of ENDA.

John Kerry will probably support the FMA.

'Nuff said.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

34. Kerry's the frontrunner

and the frontrunner will always take a ton of shit. It happened when my guy was on top of the polls too --- the amount of sheer pre-human loathing that I saw here for him was kind of shocking. I don't think I even hate Bush as much as some people here seemed to hate Dean.

But anyway, the point is, Kerry is the frontrunner so he's getting it from all sides, DU included. It's to be expected, whether it's fair or not.

[BruinAlum]

35. Sheer hypocrisy - because he replaced Dean on his throne

I see very little that is not irrational and unprincipled.

[SeattleRob]

38. I voted other

I think there are a core percentage of supporters for each candidate who will happily trash other candidates. I think it's a "scorched earth" type approach and it's been going on for months on these forums. What pisses me off are the attacks that use Rovian spin points - which are mostly untrue or at a minimum, misleading.

I saw this happen to my candidate (Howard Dean) and I know I will see it happen to all the other candidates. I will not lower myself to similar attacks. I am enthusiastically supporting whomever the nominee is. My goal is to send Bush packing back to Texas.

[ibegurpard]

39. What I find astounding

is that anyone would be genuinely surprised by this. Many people have been making their dislike of Kerry well known for a VERY long time.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[On the Road]

43. The Most Similar Competitors

usually make the bitterest enemies. I think that's part of it.

Another is that the attacks on Dean were widely perceived as unfair. Kerry was the main beneficiary. Even if he had no role in the attacks, the anger is being directed towards the beneficiary.

Rightly or wrongly, Kerry is being associated with Democrats on the hill who supported Bush legislation out of political cowardice. Anger toward "pink tutu" Democrats is being taken out on Kerry.

I'm not making a judgment on the merit of any of these issues, just trying to account for them.

[truthspeaker]

44. Other: I understand the hostility, and I think healthy debate is important

I'm not hostile to Kerry, but I am sick of emotionless politicians who can't give a short, straight answer to a question and who sound like every statement they make gets run through a series of focus groups before it leaves their mouths. So, I dislike Kerry (and 95% of elected politicians). I'm happy to read honest opinions about him, but I don't think flames and snide remarks are helpful.

But, ABB. I'll vote for whoever the Dem nominee is. But if he sells us out on the Iraq war, trade, or worker's rights he can expect to see me on the national mall carrying a big sign, an American flag, and a bullhorn.

[GumboYaYa]

45. I dislike Kerry because he and his politically opportunistic

buddies in the Senate let an eighty plus year-old Senator carry the water for the anti-war movement as they turned a blind eye to the fact that there was no justification for the invasion of Iraq.

[Atlant]

49. Hear, hear!

[dawn]

48. On the contrary

I have found that isn't hostile to Kerry, but to people who don't want to vote for Kerry in the primaries.

[Doomsayer13]

51. When Dean was in front, people went out to trash him too

Either DU doesn't like front runners or doesn't like winners, I can't decide which.

[West Coast Democrat]

54. Underground.........Underdog.....You get the picture!!!

That's the story around here

[RichardRay]

56. Because most folks here aren't interested in politics...

they're interested in morality. It's very important to be interested in morality and ethical behavior, indeed developing into an ethical being is a very important goal. It just has very little to do with electoral politics.

Maybe there should be another forum on DU called 'Moral High Ground'?

[paulk]

67. Bingo!!

:toast:

[mermaid]

58. The Hostility Is Kerry Reaping What He Has Sown...

He has failed, time and again, to support "controversial" hot-potato political issues...he has sold unpopular minority groups down the river for political gain.

How would you expect one who was sold down the river by John Kerry to have anything but contempt and disgust for John Kerry?

[a_random_joel]

61. And this is different than Clinton how?

Welcome to Politics 101.

I am a former Dean supporter. I am behind Kerry now all the way. The party needs unity. We need to get our guy in the WH first, then we can quibble about priorities.

ABB, baby.

[mermaid]

85. Don't Worry, I'm Still ABB

If Kerry ends up the nominee, I'll hold my nise and vote for him, because my DISGUST and CONTEMPT for John Kerry is outweighed by my ABHORRENCE of Bush!
But in the primaries, I'll be actively working AGAINST John Kerry. i'm now back on the Edwards wagon...as he is talking about jobs...and he seems the likeliest guy to upset Kerry's apple cart.

If Kerry DOES get the nomination, I'll console myself by knowing my vote is a vote AGAINST Bush, and not FOR Kerry.

And if Kerry gets the White House in '04, bet your assets I'm going third-party '08! I REFUSE to actively support John Kerry. He refuses to support me!

He gets my PASSIVE support in '04 only because my HATRED of Bush is so large! If it were any Republican other than Bush currently occupying the White House, I'd be going 3rd party '04 as well!

Did I make myself clear?
Can I make my position any more obvious?

P.S. Have a look at this...
Subject:
2004 Presidential candidates positions on a trans-inclusive ENDA

Note: The Bolds and Size Fonts are my addition, to make my point!! - Mermaid

1a. As president, would you support and work for passage of a federal bill that outlawed discrimination in the workplace based on gender identity and expression?

CLARK: SUPPORT
Comments: All Americans should be treated with equality and dignity. I
would work to enact the Employment Non-Discrimination Act now stalled
in Congress.

DEAN: SUPPORT
Comments: As President, I will fight for enactment of the Employment
Non-Discrimination Act to remedy this gap in federal law.

EDWARDS:
Comments:

I believe discrimination is wrong.

I am an original
cosponsor of the Employment Nondiscrimination Act, which prohibits
discrimination based on real or perceived sexual orientation.

KERRY: OPPOSE

Comments: I oppose discrimination of all kinds and my office policy
prohibits discrimination in the workplace based on gender identity and
expression.

I believe that we should focus efforts on getting ENDA passed and signed into law, and I am concerned that adding gender identity and expression to the ENDA legislation is likely to significantly hinder that effort.

Editor Note: Basically, by his words, Kerry has just told us transgenders we are too controversial to deserve rights...he is willing to sell us down the river...we are being told by Kerry to move to the back of the bus!! Now WHY THE HELL should I support him, after he tells ME to go to the back of the bus?!?!?!

[LSdemocrat]

62. Other - I don't hate him, I just don't trust or like him

I think he would get creamed in the general election because he has no record and has a history of changing his position whenever politically convenient.

[hedgetrimmer]

70. I like this post. n/t

[Hav]

90. I like this post. n/t

[MaineDem]

65. I've seen it all before

I've been around politics long enough to understand the frustration and anger associated with primaries.

I've been around DU long enough to see the ebb and flow of sentiment; the coming and going of persons who post.

Some of these campaigns truly energized people. They are disappointed. Some people are venturing into politics for the first time. They may feel betrayed by a system.

We've all observed this primary season as candidates have been crowned and defeated. Campaigns coming "from nowhere" to being frontrunners.

I remember a little over a month ago posting something about how no votes had been cast yet and how I couldn't count my candidate out. I remember saying even if he loses Iowa and NH it's not over. A few weeks later, the other side was saying the same thing. It's the ebb and flow thing.

I have faith in the Democratic Party and its members. I believe we'll come together when it counts and vote for our nominee. Then, once we have the White House back, we can move on to making viable changes, taking all campaigns' views into consideration.

[George_Bonanza]

68. If Kerry had signed the civil union bill in Dean's fashion,

The same anti-Kerry people here would lambast him for not marching naked in a pride parade right after. Dean signs it "in the closet" without much pride or joy and he's a hero. If Kerry did the same, he'd be a Bush-lite puke. Hypocrisy, hypocrisy...

[Piperay]

69. First one, except that

it DOES bother me but I remind myself that the DU is not the general Democratic voting public, thank GOD.

[Armstead]

76. Kerry represents the problem, not the solution

He represents the lack of understanding and committment to real reform that is needed in this country. Plus he is an opportunitist who doesn't engender a feeling of trust. It's all finger in the wind buzzwords that are belied by his support of things like Free trade, the IWR. He votes for this and then oppposes it.

He doesn't acknowledge the very real core problems we face as a nation. He's a creature of the Washington bubble, and he is locked into the Corporate Elite.

That's why I'm hostile to him.

[LWolf]

77. I make very little of it one way or the other.

I don't see more hostility towards Kerry here at DU than there was towards Dean when he was the "front runner."

Maybe it's the frontrunner position; the play of politics or the belief that the only way to catch/pass the leader is to knock him down.

I've seen hostility displayed towards every single candidate except CMB. And, for all I know, that was here too, and I just missed it.

[RafterMan]

78. I like it

It's a practice arena.

I went through this with Clark, and it had me steamed up at first. But later I realized that I almost never came across an attack in the real world that I hadn't seen here first. And when I had seen it here, it came packaged with well-researched refutations that would take me ages to find on my own.

It may not feel like it, but candidate bashing is the best service this board provides.

[Dying Eagle]

79. The war isnt the only issue

I support Kerry because I am a union Carpenter and he is pro-union/Labor. He is a good Democrate with the best anti-Bush voting record in the senate. He is indorced by most of the major unions and the conservation leauge. He is a great Dem who will do great things for America.

[Slice]

80. I think it's another reason.

I think that some people are just stunned that their favorite candidates have dropped from the race, or are about to drop, and they will eventually come around to support the nominee.

Also, DU is not representative of the Democratic Party.

[eridani]

81. It's not about Kerry

It's about the way the media and the PTB have anointed him

[arwalden]

82. I Attribute It To Immaturity, Selfishness, Recklessness.

-- Allen

[DemBones DemBones]

87. I like this post.

Let's go get those Bush Bastards!!!

When you're a Dem, you vote for a yellow dog if he's running as a Democrat.

The object of this exercise is to WIN and get Bush out of the White House, not to pick a perfect president.

[woofless]

84. It's a pain in the

ass, but this too shall pass.

[Lexingtonian]

88. fear of real change

The critics basically have two problems, which imho boil down to demands for ideological rigidity and narcissism of a kind, and both further reduce to insecurity that too much real change might be in the making.

There is a persistent effort on their part to misinterpret Kerry or deny the inmistakeable things he says. A persistent effort to be more righteous or more extreme rather than more wise. Near zero effort to see his stances with a tolerant or politically judicious eye, no admission that a lot of them admit changes in circumstances that present opportunity once in office or when the political climate becomes more permissive/liberal again.

Then there's the vicious, last ditch, hostility to the notion that someone of his kind and choice of doing things with the Party apparatus as is could get things more right than they can in the first place. Judgmental suspicion and resentments come to the fore at all turns. If he played it any other way than close to the vest, though, they'd claim that he's a fool.

None of the harsher critics admits to the possibilities that are open if/when he wins on the positions taken so far and puts in the intelligent appointees expectable of him. That is the essential wrongheadedness as I see it. He's in the catch-22 of having to deliver on everything before they get over their...preconceptions and invest any good faith in that he means what he says in good faith himself.

[Shanty Oilish]

89. What is wrong with some people?

Let's say you're 18 and it's last December when it looks certain you'll be walking around carless for the next four years. Suddenly Dad offers you a choice of vehicles. You can have a brand new Vette with no engine, a shiny new Jag deliberately built with only 3 wheels, a fine new Porsche that only goes in reverse, or a 35-year-old heap that runs beautifully.
Do you really want to tramp around sulking until 2009?

[JackRiddler]

91. oooooh! Hostile!

It's not like anyone would have a rational reason not to like that joker! Whatever the voters say must be good.

(staying up all night for reasons of work... your friend JR.)

[mac2]

93. This poll is not all the choices.....

How about campaign people who want us to vote another way?

I'm not Dean, Clark, or Kerry. I'd not say...it's all hate.

Kucinich and Edwards OK because, I'm for bringing home the troops and getting some needed financial and military help. Send them money is you agree.

The press picks their guy and over does it. That's not his fault.

[Skip Intro]

94. I'm coming around

I think the way Dean was taken down and Kerry foisted upon us by the media/establishment was one of the most horrendous things I've seen.

I think some Kerry supporters on this board have been rude and condescending, especially to Dean supporters. (Not you Pete, you have been a class act all along, thanks).

But none of that should reflect on Kerry, imho. I don't believe he orchestrated the political assassination of Dean. I don't think he'd appreciate the tone of some of his supporters. I could be wrong, but that's my take.

The invasion of Iraq has been, and continues to be the big issue for me. I know Kerry and Edwards voted for the IWR, but more importantly to me are their current views. I've seen statements by Kerry that make his vote then, and his position now much easier to accept than that of Edwards.


Did Kerry take Dean's message - yeah, to a great extent I think he did. Does Kerry seem to be on both sides of many issues, yes, imho, he does. But we are where we are now.

I continue to think Dean was the best candidate, and I'd happily take DK over JK or JE any day. But the writing is now on the wall, and while Kerry may not be the Dem I wanted, he is the one it seems I'll have. So be it.

I'll vote for him in November, and encourage everyone I know to do so as well.

I'll put my heart into it as much as I can. After November, tho, some soul-searching will be in order.

[vet_against_Bush]

95. Kerry always has been more liberal than Dean, ???

One would think he would be quite popular in here. :kick: