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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 12:48 PM
Original message
Christians with Guns - Blackwater and the CNP
Edited on Sat Oct-20-07 01:30 PM by arendt
Now that we all have seen the kind of political "orthodoxy" that Pelosi (Pete Stark should apologize) and Reid (screw your hold, Chris Dodd) are enforcing, I am no longer troubled by the reception my essays on ecstatic authoritarianism receive at DU. I have always been comfortable opposing orthodoxy, from my particular heretical tradition: science.

------------------

My last essay, "Why the Nazis are relevant",

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2083442&mesg_id=2083442

laid out the pseudo-religious motivations beyond the Nazi rhetoric and actions. It was met with no outright name-calling, which is progress in the current atmosphere on DU. In that essay, I pointed out that, however deliberately crippled the fundamentalist fanatic "useful idiots" are, their corporate masters have once again overlooked their infiltration into the military. In this essay, I will take that point to a conclusion.

But, be warned. This is a very long essay with a lot of nuance. That is because I have set myself three very difficult points to make:

1) I want to re-iterate that heresy comes in many flavors (of which Nazism is but one) but that it is useful to pay attention to recurring tactics and events. This is where I will lose any DUers who "don't do nuance".

2) I want to show that the CNP-Dominionist agenda, up-armored by the "inverted Marxism" of the neocons, is the latest outbreak of anti-Enlightenment heresy to break out in the last hundred years. That is, I want to place "Christians with Guns" in Morris Berman's typology of heresy. Hint: it lands in the same bin as Naziism

3) I want to point out, via "The Shock Doctrine", that the more dangerous infiltration of armed thugs is in the private mercenary companies - particularly the CNP-connected Blackwater.

If I could accomplish my tasks in three separate essays I would; but then the connections wouldn't be clear, and the impact would be weaker.

1. A typology of heresy

Morris Berman argues that the denial/mortification/fear of the human body is at the root of religion and politics in Western civilization. He sees history as a cycle of: people connecting with the body by meditative practice, having a new religious insight, overthrowing the ossified orthodox religious position, and rapidly outlawing the body practices that brought it to power - thereby becoming a new dead orthodoxy that can be successfully challenged by the next outbreak of heresy.

His book is concerned with cataloging how the constant factor in this equation (the human body and the effect of meditative practice upon it) interacts with sociologically variable factors (historical, economic, ideological, ethnic) to produce different outcomes. Think of Berman's typology as a limited version of the sci-fi trope of "the anthropomorphic universe", where the conditions at the time of a Big Bang determine the basic constants of the universe created by that particular bang.

"...the German sociologist Max Weber was one of the first to argue (that) heresy has been a major force in the history of Western civilization. I believe this is so firstly because our biological legacy, and the events of our infancy, generate a definite energy field; and secondly because this energy field has been deployed in various ways. In particular, a typology of heretical formation can be mapped out, such that we come to see that one of four models is always running our psychological life, even down to the present day. Cultural upheavals in the West have the heresy/orthodoxy conflict at their very core.

...many of these cultural manifestations cannot be shoved into the same category. I have used the label "gnosticism" in an umbrella-like fashion, and strictly speaking, this is inaccurate. Gnosticism, Catharism, magic, Fascism, alchemy and witchcraft, heresies of all sorts - these are not equivalent and may not really add up to an alternative tradition...How to escape from this terminological confusion, then? The answer is that, despite what a more discriminating analysis might want, there may be no escape, and this is due to the somatic nature of the phenomena involved...The things I have (correctly and incorrectly) labeled "gnosticism" are somatic phenomena - lived experience. They resist the neat categorization that a student of ideology, let us say, might "reasonably" insist upon.

- Morris Berman, "Coming to Our Senses - Body and Spirit in the Hidden History of the West"


I hope by expanding on what heresy means to me (i.e., how I view Naziism as just one recent example of the cycle of heretical outbreak) I hope to convince some people that it really is OK to make carefully-stated comparisons between America today and Germany 70-80 years ago. And, given that Berman himself says this cannot be neatly categorized, I am not going to get into hair-splitting over exact historical parallels. I'm with Tolstoy (you never step into the same river twice) and Berman (the type of heresy depends on the context).

The reason why the Nazi experience is relevant is, to quote Berman:

"A number of historians...have argued that as a doctrine, Nazism...(gave) particular emphasis to the irrational side of human life. It was, in other words, an ideological rebellion against the dominant (liberal, democratic, rationalist) culture, and the influence of this peculiar brand of racist romanticism can be traced from writers in the late 19th century right down to Hitler. While this thesis has much to commend it, it tends to overvalue the importance of intellectuals and ideas for a phenomenon that was violent, pervasive, and grass-roots. Ideas, in and of themselves, are not capable of unleashing energy. To do that, something else must be present. This missing factor is that of pyschological salvation, directly experienced."


The point is that today's fundamentalist Christians are, identically, in rebellion against rationalism and liberalism. The fundamentalist Christians are, identically a "violent, pervasive, grass-roots movement". The fact that their particular symbology differs from Nazi symbology is not a reason to give up on the analogy; it is simply a place where Berman's typology of heresy needs to be applied.

2. The re-tooled version of corporate Christianity

The "permanent private government" in America (the names of their front groups change, but the families and corporations at the top don't) was never rooted out after WW2, in spite of their blatant support for the German war machine before the war. Only a small number of high-profile war criminals were prosecuted; and, with the rise of the Communist Menace, even some of those were rehabilitated and pressed into Cold War service. For example, Operation Paperclip brought the ex-Nazi spymaster Reinhard Gehlen and his assets (spy networks behind the Iron Curtain) into the U.S. spying community. So, these guys have had plenty of time in a warm, safe place to figure out how they blew it, and how they are going to get it right the next time - i.e., right here, right now.

It became apparent after the Viet Nam/rogue CIA revelations of the late 1970s that working inside of governmental organizations would be met with the greatest suspicion and scrutiny; so the CIA field ops folks simply went private. The CIA proprietary companies had long since become self-funding, after being started up with the generous funding available in the Cold War. (The private air force that ran arms to and drugs from the Nicaraguan contras was a CIA proprietary.) So, we started to see free-lance operations. (A good, but hard to read, compendium of this stuff can be found in "Hot Money and the Politics of Debt" by a Canadian professor, name of Naylor.)

At this same moment in history, the social reactionaries were reeling from the huge social changes that occurred in the wake of the 1960s: feminism, civil rights, gay rights, etc. They were desperate to get misogynistic, homophobic, "man on top, get it over with quick" Christianity back in control of the society. (cf. Berman on fear of the body.) The CIA free-lancers (like the infamous Ted Shackleton) found these partners, and trained them up into a pretty nasty bunch of thugs. In the process, some weird mutations of Christianity (i.e., heresies) ensued.

"The influence of 20th century American Marxism on the rigid dogmatism of the American conservative elite cannot be exaggerated. From its beginings, the conservatism of Joe McCarthy, William F. Buckley, Jr., Irving Kristol, and Norman Podhoretz was not just anti-communist or non-communist, but counter-communist. The key figures on the intellectual right, from Whittaker Chambers and James Burnham to Irving Kristol, were mostly ex-communists who thought that old-fashioned Burkean traditionalism was too feeble and genteel to withstand the assault of the cunning and well-organized communist conspiracy.

The conservative movement these ex-radicals created was therefore one that adopted the characteristic institutions and strategies of communism while purveying an anti-communist (not merely a noncommunist) message. The conservative "movement" took the place of the Communist Party. The Popular Front strategy of allying the communist vanguard with American liberals was replicated in the "no enemies to the right" policy of allying conservative intellectuals and activists with the religious right and the paramilitary right. The myth of the struggle of the heroic proletariat against the evil bourgeouisie became the structurally identical myth of the struggle of "entrepreneurs" or (more broadly) "producers" or (more broadly still) "middle Americans" against a sinister new class of bureaucrats and intellectuals. Even the historical version of dialectical materialism was taken over from communism, although "the end of history" was redefined from the worldwide triumph of socialism to the worldwide triumph of "democratic capitalism".

American conservatism, then, is a counter-communism that replicates, down to rather precise details of organization and theory, the communism that it opposes."

- Michael Lind, "Up from Conservatism"


Mr. Lind calls this counter-communism "inverted Marxism". Many of the people he identifies in the conservative movement are today necons. This canonization of the businessman is one thread in the new "muscular Christian" heresy that is happily stealing everything that isn't nailed down from a government that has deliberately gone to out to a very, very long lunch under Bush.

You really have to hand it to these guys. They have managed to turn "God Vs. Mammon" into "God is Mammon" without missing a beat. And, conveniently, most of the rich, anointed-by-God honchos just happen to be reactionary white guys. So, what they did to New Orleans isn't racism; its just free market forces at work. Overt racism doesn't play in Peoria anymore, but whining about "welfare queens" still does - in spite of the fact that, today, the corporations are the biggest queens by far.

3. Applying rendition to democracy

Just as Christianity stewed and bubbled for three hundred years in the cauldron of the Roman Empire before congealing into one of the most reactionary social systems ever seen, Corporate Christianity has been brewing in the corporate backlabs for thirty or so years. The corporate chemists have been tinkering to get just the right mix of additives in their product. Anti-government? Check. Pro-military, anti-Geneva Convention? Check. Extra-territorial? Check.

But, there are two ingredients that the corporatists shouldn't be playing with. Dominionist Christian and Creationist Christian. Yet, these are precisely the ingredients that are front and center in the "road trip" that disaster capitalism has taken all around the world. (And will soon be in play right here in the good ole US of A.)

Founded in 1996, (Blackwater) has used the steady stream of contracts during the Bush years to build up a private army of 20,000 mercenary soldiers on call and a massive military base in North Carolina...Blackwater...is closely aligned with the anti-aborion movement and other right-wing causes. It donates almost exclusively to the Republican Party, rather than hedging its bets like most big corporations...Is it beyond the realm of the imagination to conceive of a day when political parties will hire these companies to spy on their rivals during an election campaign - or to engage in covert operations too shady even for the CIA?

Wherever the disaster capitalism complex has landed, it has produced a proliferation of armed groupings outside the state. That is hardly a surprise: when countries are rebuilt by people who don't believe in governments, the states they build are invariably weak, creating a market for alternative security forces, whether Hezbollah, Blackwater, the Mahdi Army, or the gang down the street in New Orleans.

When the contractor infrastructure built up during the Bush years is looked at as a whole, what is seen is a fully articulated state-within-a-state that is as muscular and capable as the actual state is frail and feeble. This corporate shadow state has been built almost exclusively with public resources (90% of Blackwater's revenues come from state contracts)...Yet the vast infrastructure is all privately owned and controlled. The citizens who funded it have absolutely no claim to this parallel economy or its resources.

- Naomi Klein, "The Shock Doctrine"


The theocratic power grab is not some conspiracy theory. Cheney just met in secret with the shadowy CNP; and it was not big deal to the corporate media. Blackwater is CNP to its eyeballs. Cheney's Haliburton has built the concentration camps that will be used when martial law is declared. You have Blackwater setting up more and more armed camps inside the U.S., getting contracts to do intelligence and riot control.

Do the corporations think they are going to blow this rapidly-escalating police state away without a huge fight? Or do they just plan to take their loot to China and let America rot? Either way, you and I are as screwed as the typical resident of Baghdad, Beirut, or Grozny.

How do you think you take over the world's largest military in the world's oldest democracy? You do it by transporting democracy to some militarized hell hole where you do with it what you will. Call it "rendition" for political systems.

In the military hell-hole that the American taxpayer has paid to create over the last sixty years, there is a $50 Billion black budget. Then there is a huge reliance on "private security contractors". In fact, we have more contractors in Iraq than we have soldiers. Iraq is simply the furnace in which the new privatized, corporatized army is being purified for use against American democracy.

Let's do a few comparisons:

A. Blackwater is an ideological pure organization, directly wired into the highest levels of the reactionary party that is privatizing government out of existence - just as the SS was an ideologically pure parallel army reporting directly to Hitler.

B. Blackwater is a private army, better equipped and better paid than the regular military - just like the SS.

C. Blackwater will hire any thug from any country, as long as he swears loyalty to Blackwater - just like the SS who made up separate SS divisions for fascists from occupied countries.

D. The regular army has tried to maintain its honor and its intactness in the face of hideous tactics and demands from an insane civilian leadership - just as the professional German army did throughout the war in the face of Hitler's suicidal demands for "no retreat".

4. Conclusion

So, I ask the rhetorical question: Is it heresy yet?

Of course it is. The only question left to resolve is who is in charge when the pretense of democracy is finally dropped - the theocrats at the CNP or the international corporatists.

We are in the final stage of a coup that has been planned and executed over a period of almost thirty years. Naomi Klein documents that where Blackwater appears, democracy dies, and corporatism and private armies prevail. In some ways, this is the world the Catholic Church liked: a lot of tiny, feuding principalities (think Holy Roman Empire) with one over-arching ideological leader and doctrine. The nation state was bad news for theocracy; so the theocrats are dissolving it. If it weren't so horrific, it would be brilliant.

You don't need to call it Naziism to know it is horrible beyond your worst nightmare. But, calling it Nazi-like is no mistake.

arendt
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. k/r
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. Romney plays the Christian Card - his security advisor is Blackwater
Edited on Sat Oct-20-07 01:28 PM by arendt
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3626478&mesg_id=3626478

And here's a link at Media Matters:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200709180014

Jeez - Cofer Black - ex-CIA and now major player at Blackwater is Romney's advisor.

Nothing to see here. Move along.

arendt
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. Also: Check into "The Order of the Spur". I know people who could tell
you stories about Order of the Spur in at least one major Catholic parish in Colorado Springs. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Jeremy Scahill said in his book that Eric Prince is a Catholic convert.

I have a lot of questions about what I heard from local Catholic parishes during Kerry phone-banks in '04.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Haven't gotten the Scahill book yet. Thanks for the OotS pointer...
These whacko cultist groups are hard to keep track of, because they deliberately keep a low profile, all the while gnawing away our democracy.

Colorado Springs probably means Air Force Academy connection.

The AF is now run by the fundies, AFAICT. Its amazing some folks were able to blow the whistle on the nukes on the B-52.

----

I can't quite decipher your Catholic references. Are you surprised that there are Catholics in the CNP? Please expand.

Thanks for new info.

arendt
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. The person I know, who was a very popular liturgy leader in the CC was
shocked and sickened by what she could only refer to as a sacriligious Mass that was everything but outright idolatry, performed for some ***extremely*** wealthy folks.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. So, not to do with the AF academy? n/t
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Oh, I'd bet money that the religious leaders in Co. Spgs. know one another.
This was a RCC parish, but I'm sure that some Catholics there have connections to the AF Academy.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Thanks very much for an extremely thought provoking post.
I like especially it's allusions to what I think of as the biology of cognition.

No, I'm not surprised by Catholics in the CNP. Isn't Brownback also a convert? And then there's Rick Santorum.

I totally get how high people get on blasphemy, no matter what their religious sect.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
5. Many of the "facts" stated by your sources are contradicted by other sources - but
Edited on Sat Oct-20-07 02:21 PM by papau
I agree the direction Bush is taking us - and that GOP politics being solely directed by the religious right is wrong. And I agree that indeed the CIA is running assets not under government control, and is indeed itself not fully under government control. Using non-government controlled mercenary armies so as to avoid a draft is unAmerican - and ridiculously costly.

The rest of your rant gets an A+ for creative writing.

By the way, your readers should know that The Council for National Policy - the "CNP" in your 2 posts, does not require anyone to be a Christian to belong, has 500 members, began late in the game (1981), and indeed I suspect few ever feared either Anita Bryant (of Florida orange juice and anti-gay fame), or Pat Boone (2 of their members over the years). Now the membership is indeed right wing and you need a shower after reading the membership lists or anything else coming from the organization (sorry but I am just not a fan of the Washington Times owner Reverend Moon), but the control we need fear is by a few families out of the few thousand worldwide that own or control most governments, and not from "Christians", not even the "Christians" that want to use the force of law to spread their beliefs in our society.

Indeed the very rich have always used the game of setting one sub group against another to keep the masses busy while they emptied the store. Selling the evils of class warfare - its evil because you know you want to just move up in class - has been a joint project of our media and the GOP for as long as I have been alive.

Your rant is just you doing what the rich want you to do. Of course, that is just my opinion.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. Attention class. New trope: Half of a comparison. Nice rhetorical gadget.
Edited on Sat Oct-20-07 04:03 PM by arendt
When rebutting sources, it is customary to provide some of your own. You didn't. So, your title is worthless. You claim there are sources, but you don't offer any.

As to the content, first we get some vague, luke-warm agreement that "things are bad" to innouculate yourself, and they we move into the "but, your response is over the edge".

I called it an "essay". You called it a "rant". You said it was creative writing, but you rebutted NOT ONE point.

You also left out the second half of a comparison. You said:

the control we need fear is (?did you mean NOT here?) by a few families out of the few thousand worldwide that own or control most governments, and not from "Christians", not even the "Christians" that want to use the force of law to spread their beliefs in our society.


and there you end it. You imply that there is a type of control that we do need to fear, but you conveniently omit saying what it is we do need to fear. This is par for the course for the "things are bad" set here at DU. You knock down everyone else's arguments and offer none of your own that can be examined.

The fact that the CNP doesn't require Christianity is utterly beside the point. You acknowledge they are an icky bunch of phony Christians; and they are a SECRET club. How do you know exactly what their secret criteria for blackballing applicants is, unless you happen to be a member? Sources, please.

Finally, you bring in the classic infiltrator trope "you are doing what THEY want you to do".

ON EDIT: I fixed a formatting error below here, and changed the text to be clearer.

And again, we have a half of a comparison:

Selling the evils of class warfare - its evil because you know you want to just move up in class - has been a joint project of our media and the GOP for as long as I have been alive.


Excuse me, once again you imply that it might be possible for discussion of class warfare not to be evil, but you don't mention how that would work. More withholding of your so-called position, whatever it is. Your only goal seems to be to bash me, not to enlighten anyone else as to how to do it correctly.

arendt
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. The good side of class warfare is knowing that the rich are at war with the non- rich - as
Edited on Sat Oct-20-07 04:35 PM by papau
to offering sources that demonstrate the errors in your sources, I do not work as your paid reviewer.

Last I looked Skinner did not allow far out conspiracy postings - and while Rense.com joins with you http://www.rense.com/general20/unholy2.htm and has promoted Eric Jewell's version of your conspiracy called "The Unholy Alliance: Christianity & The NWO" (where NWO refers to Bush Sr.'s New World Order Speech) and finds time to discuss how the evil Mason's (I am told average age 72, average wealth under 6 fiqures based on Mass Grand Lodge data) obey the "Illuminati" and are the driving force behind the "NWO", I find it a waste of time because it doesn't pass either the checkable fact test or even the smell test. The "secret" CNP 1998 membership is at http://www.seekgod.ca/1998cnp.htm and http://www.seekgod.ca/topiccnp.htm has the 2001 membership. The group is known to hold meetings and give out an award called the Jefferson Award.

Part of that fact test check was your statement that the CIA budget is $50 billion - indeed the entire intel budget is south of 40 and most of that is for sat and computer and the massive database and analyst work. There is indeed enough in the CIA budget to let them run around unchecked by money worries most of the time - but your $50 billion is an overstatement.

I still wonder why you fear William F. Buckley, Jr, but no matter.

The "secret" club the CNP doesn't require Christianity and files with the IRS every year:

The 2002 calendar year Form 990 return filed with the IRS lists the board of Directors as:

* Donald Paul Hodel President (former Secretary of Energy and former president of the Christian Coalition)
* T. Kenneth Cribb Jr, Vice President
* James C. Miller III, Chairman
* John Seribante, Secretary/Treasurer (possibly typo for John Scribante)
* Robert Fischer , Director,
* Dr. Dal Shealy, Director
* Howard Phillips, Director
* Ken Raasch, Director
* Mary Reilly Hunt, Director
* Stuart W. Epperson, Director
* Ann Drexel, Director (also a Red Cross board member)
* Becky Norton Dunlop, Director
* Jerome Ledzinski, Director
* Grover Norquist , Director
* E. Peb Jackson, Director

Staff members of the Board of Directors are:

* Steve Baldwin, Executive Director (paid $157,391 in 2002)
* David Fenner, Director of MIS & Programs (paid $89,088 in 2002)
* Jennifer Rutledge, Director of Finance & Administration (paid $57,504 in 2002)

Source: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Council_for_National_Policy


And indeed I believe you are doing what the rich - the very very rich - want you to do - and they want you to do this because it avoids your thinking about the class war of the rich on the non-rich. But that is just my opinion.

When I went to Google this stuff what came up on most of the searches were tracts by various atheists and statements on various atheists sites. Perhaps you may want to cross post this in the hate religion area - its called the Religion Forum.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Ooh - we have a player. And he starts by comparing me to Rense.com. Real gentlemanly stuff.
Lots of distortion in what you posted, but hey, I'm used to that.

Where is the conspiracy in what I posted?

Is Blackwater's CEO not a member of CNP?
Did Cheney not have a secret meeting on the taxpayer's dime with the CNP?
Is Naomi Klein and everything in her book a conspiracy theory?

Nevertheless, you drag out every rhetorical brickbat you can find about CT. You get pretty nasty, pretty quick for someone I only called on his debating tactics.

As to the distortions (not quite lies, but hey, whose keeping score?):

1) I never said the membership list of the CNP was secret. I said they have secret meetings

Like the recent one with Cheney, or the one in 2000 where they vetted Bush. Your voluminous description that anyone could grab from the net is, as usual, DELIBERATELY MISSING MY POINT. Tell me what went on in Cheney's meeting and prove me wrong.

2) I never said "the CIAs intel budget". I said "There is a $50 Billion black budget."

That is a completely different statement. The black budget I am referring to is the sum total in all the military and intelligence black authorizations. This is the same black budget that Duke Cunningham was dipping into. I can also argue that any money given to contractors like Blackwater is effectively "black", since they are as secretive as the CIA. My point about the black budget is not that it is being used to spy on us, but that it is a totally unaccountable and secret slush fund that the mercenaries and the military industrial complex can play with however they please.

Finally,

The good side of class warfare is knowing that the rich are at war with the non- rich.


This is your "action plan" for opposing the war of the super-rich against everyone else? LOL.

Your statement is equivalent to a loyal Soviet citizen whispering to his friend that its OK to know that the Comissars are rotten bums who are robbing the country blind; but that if his friend actually tried to get other people to do something about it, the loyal citizen would have to turn him in.

This is the lamest argument I have heard in a while.

You prove my point for me - namely, you have no plan on offer, just vitriol.

arendt




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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. To associate a very good book by Naomi Klein with this fantasy is a bit much
but if it floats your boat, go for it.

The GOP and the Corporations are being led astray by the Christians - right? - and it is a Christian conspiracy to take over the world - right - being led by Fundi's who in turn are led by the CNP who in turn are being lead by the Masons - or was that last part just an addition by Eric Jewell? And air time on Rense does not mean the whole thing is nuts because there are others that also believe this.

And it does not mean it is not Christians just because there are non-Christians in the CNP - that is just a cover I guess for the real mission statement of the CNP - who holds meetings of their membership meetings and announces those meetings and the meetings agenda and after the meeting puts out a PR release, but doesn't give passes to the press to observe their meetings - making them secret meetings and scary.

It is almost 9 pm EST - it must be bed time for you - now be sure to check the closets and under the bed for someone who might pray within earshot of you and thereby destroy you.

Good luck - and good night.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. You got nothing - but sarcasm and hysterical exaggeration.
What is it with you? Every attempt to string two thoughts in succession causes you to push the "paranoia" button.

All you do is nitpick and look for trouble. I notice how you had nothing to say about all the distortions I just pointed out.

Good nite, sore loser

arendt
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. In logic there are many situations where two facts are true - but unrelated to each other - and
the "distortions you point out" - which I assume means the meetings of the rich - and the attempts to cause constant turmoil by politicians working for the rich via there use of "value issue hot buttons" are quite real and I do not dispute them.

The tie back to Christians, as a group, or even Fundi's as a group, in my opinion, is an acceptance of a mis-direction play by the rich.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. duplicate - self-delete n/t
Edited on Sat Oct-20-07 03:44 PM by arendt
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. Re Cheenee meeting in secret with ______________
I believe Melanie Sloan, when she announced this suit http://www.citizensforethics.org/node/18974 said what had triggered CREW's interest was information they had regarding religious visitors to the White House during a certain time period.
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. Visitor logs. Emails. Boy these guys like to destroy the trail. n/t
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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
8. They rally round the family with a pocketful of shells
Weapons, not homes, no food, not shoes, not need
Just greed that feeds the war cannibal animal
I walk the corner to the rubble that used to be a library
Line up to the mind cemetery now
What we don't know keeps their contracts alive and movin'
They don't gotta burn the books they just remove 'em
While arms warehouses fill as quick as the cells
They rally round the family with a pocketful of shells

-Rage Against the Machine
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Thanks for this . . .
. . . we need a "head-bangin'" smilie!
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. "the war cannibal animal" - fabulous! n/t
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
11. BTW, what you outline in "typology of herasy"
"... having a new religious insight, overthrowing the ossified orthodox religious position, and rapidly outlawing the body practices that brought it to power - thereby becoming a new dead orthodoxy that can be successfully challenged by the next outbreak of heresy."

is similar to what the great Science Historian, Thomas R. Kuhn, describes in his classic "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions".
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
18. shorter arendt:
Edited on Sat Oct-20-07 05:14 PM by cali
"I'm brilliant and if you don't agree with me, you don't do nuance and you're part of the problem."

It's impossible to have a discussion with someone who frames their argument in this manner. Yes, I know you have me on ignore, and this isn't written for you; it's written for those who might also recognize that, like the emperor, you're wearing no clothes.

Your essay is pedantic and sodden. You throw immaterial quotes and quasi academic terminology into it so liberally, that it's virtually unreadable- and I've made it through "The Great Chain of Being" and *most* of Spengler.

You start out with an untruth; in fact Nancy Pelosi has not asked Pete Stark to apologize. She rebuked him, but said nothing about how he should apologize.

As for the first of your three points, I take exception to your use of the word heresy. And it's amusing to see it used in the context of heresy against the Enlightenment, which was largely an effort to break away from the constraints of religion, and is an open ended philosophical movement and not an othodoxy.

I could go on, but I'll only say; it's too bad this is such a mess, because, had you stuck to writing about the nexus of Blackwater, Christianity and Corporatism, without throwing in the kitchen sink and the bathtub as well, you could have said something meaningful

And I'll leave you with what Orwell said about writing, specifically what he said about political writing:

"A scrupulous writer, in every sentence that he writes, will ask himself at least four questions, thus:

What am I trying to say?
What words will express it?
What image or idiom will make it clearer?
Is this image fresh enough to have an effect?
And he will probably ask himself two more:

Could I put it more shortly?
Have I said anything that is avoidably ugly?
One can often be in doubt about the effect of a word or a phrase, and one needs rules that one can rely on when instinct fails. I think the following rules will cover most cases:

Never use a metaphor, simile, or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print.
Never use a long word where a short one will do.
If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out.
Never use the passive where you can use the active.
Never use a foreign phrase, a scientific word, or a jargon word if you can think of an everyday English equivalent.
Break any of these rules sooner than say anything outright barbarous."

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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
21. Oh, boy, the ignores are here. Let me guess. Anything I have ever said, can and will...
be used against me.

Looks like they are trying to bail out papua, who really has been shooting himself in the foot by challenging me on substance (for which I give him points).

arendt
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. There's something that really tickles me about
Edited on Sat Oct-20-07 05:41 PM by cali
how much time you spend on my "ignored" posts- and how wrong your guesses inevitably are. Last time you did this, your comments got deleted, but hey have fun commenting on comments you can't read.

It really is funny.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. :-) vitirol aside - thanks for the nice comment - we agree on much here - there is a conspiracy and
their is secrecy and secret meetings - I've actually - for 18 months in NYC - had dealings with folks that write checks with 9 and 10 zeros - and from that I agree most of what goes on in this world is not in the media.

But it is not run by any combination of families that can be labled anything - other than filthy rich and greedy. I met many very rich types who work on giving it away and are wonderful folks - but there is a crowd for whom more is never enough and for whom paying any tax is "stealing from them".

And they do discuss how to kept the only slightly rich and below amused amd unaware of how they are being ripped off (my role was to present concepts that eliminated taxes in one or more countries as accounting entries and trusts and partnerships and special purpose corporations were created around the world with the billion dollar investments always coming back a few seconds after leaving, having accomplished their tax elimination job).

Because we do not have MANDATORY SOLELY federal election financing, it is easy to influence whoever wins an election - job movement threats are very powerful..

Sorry - you go fight the conspiracy you deduce - I'll go fight the conspiracy I have seen.

And we can end of the fact that we both apparently like Naomi's book! :-)
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arendt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-20-07 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Thanks for reaching out...it sure sounds like we do agree about many things
You have given me some hope that maybe there is just a lot of misunderstanding on DU, not actual disagreement on basic principles. I will go to bed tonight feeling a little less alone in the world.

You sound quite accomplished, and presumably financially secure enough to fight this fight over the long haul. I am just a techie who has been mugged too many times, and sees the fist coming towards my face again. I don't think I will survive what these bums have planned for America - you don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to see the cliff they are pushing us over. That is why the "its not that bad" crowd really makes me mad. I am too old to ride this out and start over.

So, I wish you success with your fight against your conspiracy. I would just ask that you call me a bad writer, not a CTer. I'm not fighting a conspiracy. I'm just like your average Soviet citizen - I read corporate Pravda from the back to the front, and I think that omissions are as significant as stories. In today's media environment, any deviation from the party line can be made to sound like a CT.

Years ago, when I came to DU, Nazi references and the like were not cause for bitter fights; they were concepts that most people on this board had no trouble accepting. I just feel that things have shifted here. Its a much nastier board than it used to be, and the Permanent Campaign makes a huge contribution to the internecine feuding and quick assumption of evil intent.

----

In retrospect, the statement about "the same families" was probably a little too C. Wright Mills for today's DU. It was a throwaway line to pad out a seque. I had put myself on a deadline to post this and didn't go back and clean it up. Live and learn. (No Carol Quigley references, ever! :-) )The only "same family" that I am really certain of is the Bush Crime Family - three generations and going strong. Like you say, most of the rest of them are probably whatever rich slime has floated to the surface lately. In the end, it is all about making the few rich by making the many poor. That's not a conspiracy theory, that's a fact.

Naomi Klein rocks. :-) She is a writer. I'm not even a hack by her standards.

peace

arendt




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okasha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-21-07 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
28. I would like to see evidence for the following statement:
"Cheney's Haliburton has built the concentration camps that will be used when martial law is declared."

Photos preferred.
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