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Omaha Steve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:09 PM
Original message
This post is for everyone EXCEPT Senator Clinton supporters, please read

This is not an anti Hillery post. I have to ask the DU faithful to trust me on something. I'm asking for help, not a fight. I need a list of reasons to not support Senator Clinton with cash until say March or April first. Please understand she is not my first choice for the nations highest office. But should she win the nomination, SHE IS MY GIRL! This list needs to be complete and verified by noon Monday. References to video or audio would be better than an unsupported articles or opinions. I can't pull this off by myself. I have my reasons. Some people in the know, know what this is about. I'll fill everybody in by next weekend. I hope I haven't broken any DU rules.

Warmest regards,

Omaha Steve

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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. One question
Why should I trust you?
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Omaha Steve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Have I ever started a fight or played the roll of a troll on the DU?

I try to follow the high road.

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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:13 PM
Original message
and indeed you have.
You're a-ok with me.
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. I'm sorry. I didn't mean it that wa
In hindsight, I see it was snarky. I've read your thread on poverty and some other issues. I don't agree with everything you say, but I haven't seen you behave badly. At least, I don't remember seeing it.

But seriously, someone I don't know comes up and asks about all the dirt on a dem and says "Trust me", my radar goes up.
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Omaha Steve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. I didn't take it as snarky
Edited on Fri Oct-26-07 08:54 PM by Omaha Steve

Not really looking for dirt. She is a US Senator and deserves respect. Her voting record on labor since becoming a Senator alone is near perfect. But before that she has some real issues with working families. Go figure she isn't my first choice. Even I have a hard time explaining that.

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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. Thank you
that was very gracious of you. But Im still burning with curiosity about your request
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Because he's a nice guy.
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Steve is a Good Guy!
:thumbsup:
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billyoc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. The request was for DU faithful.
You've been here 5 minutes.
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. So you've been here a long time
but still don't know the rules?
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Bad cuke!
:spank: Be nice, or you'll end up in a pickle. :-)
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. I was nice
I just asked a question.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. In that spirit,
I take back my spanking.
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Gee, you don't have to go that far
I was beginning to enjoy the attention
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #17
38. Keep in mind that...
only the first one is free.
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Dammit!!
I spent my all of my disposable income on penis enlargement
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Why didn't you say so in the first place?
First TWO are free.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
50. "This is not an anti Hill[a]ry post."
:eyes:
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. just a few
- she's a strong woman

- she's the goddess of peace

- she has a wonderfuL cackLe

- she has the firmest grasp of not answering a direct question

- her husband is a former president

- she's the onLy "eLectabLe" candidate.


doh! my bad. :blush:
i thought you were asking for the reasons to support her.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
6. Well, I think she's got plenty of dough already.
As long as she's the apparent front-runner, corporations will continue to find ways to send scratch her way. They'd do it to any front-runner.

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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
33. Really. If Hillary wins the nomination, I need an emergency fund to pay for
all the reckless things that the local corpos are going to continue getting away with because their gal is in office.
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phen43 Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
8. You got it!!
I know that I am new here, but will try my best to come up with something for you by Monday!:patriot:
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phen43 Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. sorry, if you don't want me to, I won't
just let me know with a post
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Fresh_Start Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
14. The single best reason bar none
You believe another candidate is the best choice.



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billyoc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
15. Clinton-> DLC-> neo-liberal-> anti-union-> anti-worker.
So, in that vein, two favorites of mine.

Naomi Klein - Iraq: The Neoliberal Project
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk-qBY-TiZg


John Perkins - The Secret History of the American Empire
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z43f0F97HDM

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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. What billyoc said
Anti-union, anti-worker, pro NAFTA = nothing but trouble for the American workers.
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bellasgrams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #18
36. If you dont want to vote for Hillary
that's fine. But, there is no sense is putting out such misleading info about a fellow democrat. She is none of the things you said. As for NAFTA that is the one thing that she and Bill have disagreed on.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #36
47. Hill is a big time corp pal
Not making it up. Look to her donor list.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #47
51. Except she's already been endorsed by the Unions...good to update
your negative talking points...
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bellasgrams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #15
35. Billyoc-that is nothing but trash talk.
I hope you actually don't believe what you wrote. Maybe you need to get out more.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
20. I've Never Posted Anything Audio Or Video, So My Opinion Is All
I have. I don't want to cause any upheaval, but I think so much of Clinton's money is being given by many "high rollers" and it just seems unfair to me. When I think about HOW MUCH money is being collected it seems that a candidate is being "bought" and therefore "owes" some sort of debt. I wish we could figure out a way that there could be a "fair" playing field for all candidates. But it seems that no matter what idea or law gets passed, people find ways to break through.

Also, because she seems to have received SO MUCH money it seems that those of us who support someone else don't even have a voice as to WHO we would like to vote for. I have often wondered what it would be like if all candidates would be limited to spending a specified amount. It would be like running a race where everyone started at "go" and then finding out which one used his or her money to the best advantage. The way it is now, it's not WHAT you know, it's WHO you know and it just comes down to name recognition. The one having the most money can "buy" much more, therefore the NAME is mentioned much more.

And I am highly insulted that even before ONE vote has been cast, we are being told that Hillary Clinton will be the Democratic nominee. I find this to be the MOST offensive problem of all because I MIGHT have wanted to vote for someone else! It just doesn't seem like the Democratic way.


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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #20
40. Hey now, Corporate goes through alot of trouble selecting the Candidates
that we get to pick from.

Why do you hate America? :rofl:
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windbreeze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #20
67. Hear!! Hear!!....
I am with you...Thank you....wb
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
21. Permanent "Free" Trade Status For China
Her husband pounded it through Congress - Hillary was only a candidate for Senator then, but she was strongly in favor.

There could be no doubt - none - that opening free trade with a country that pays $2 a day to workers would simply obliterate jobs, and tremendously undercut the bargaining power of unions.

The there's her approval of torture... her voting for war when most Congressional Democrats voted against it... her voting in favor of the Bankruptcy Bill the first time it was voted on... and so forth.

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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Her Pro-Outsourcing Stance...
not to mention her being in bed with Tata. Need any links.....send me a note. :)
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. Outsourcing is not one way - and Tata - a mistake - was an office upstate for support in their
getting a contract from IBM. The upstate office never got staffed with more than a couple of Americans out of the 30 or 40 in the office - they lied to her - but it was not a big deal. We have many American companies getting "outsourcing" contracts from other countries, which of course provides US jobs. The movement of manufacturing is not due to outsourcing (indeed India with call centers and crappy programing killing programing jobs in the US are the only large outsourcing dislocations that come to mind - but my mind is not what it should be and there may be others).

Do you have links to more than her "I do not oppose outsourcing" comment, and the small Tata office that never really hired Americans?
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #28
64. Here are a few:
Unions Press Clinton on Outsourcing Of U.S. Jobs

Saturday, September 8, 2007; Page A01

When Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton flew to New Delhi to meet with Indian business leaders in 2005, she offered a blunt assessment of the loss of American jobs across the Pacific. "There is no way to legislate against reality," she declared. "Outsourcing will continue. . . . We are not against all outsourcing; we are not in favor of putting up fences."

Two years later, as a Democratic presidential hopeful, Clinton struck a different tone when she told students in New Hampshire that she hated "seeing U.S. telemarketing jobs done in remote locations far, far from our shores."

The two speeches delivered continents apart highlight the delicate balance the senator from New York, a dedicated free-trader, is seeking to maintain as she courts two competing constituencies: wealthy Indian immigrants who have pledged to donate and raise as much as $5 million for her 2008 campaign and powerful American labor unions that are crucial to any Democratic primary victory.

Despite aggressive courtship by Democratic candidates, major unions such as the AFL-CIO, the Teamsters and the Service Employees International Union have withheld their endorsements as they scrutinize the candidates' records and solicit views on a variety of issues.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/07/AR2007090702780.html

Hillary: Hypocrite When It's Profitable

Posted Jul 30th 2007 11:47AM by Patrick Casey
Filed under: President 2008, Democrats, Hillary Clinton

In the Los Angeles Times this morning there's an interesting article about Hillary Clinton, the defender of American workers and the poor, seemingly assisting what should be one of her natural enemies -- job stealing Indian companies. Why would she do this, apparently in opposition to her campaign rhetoric? You decide.

To many labor unions and high-tech workers, the Indian giant Tata Consultancy Services is a serious threat - a company that has helped move U.S. jobs to India while sending thousands of foreign workers on temporary visas to the United States. So when Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) came to this struggling city to announce some good news, her choice of partners was something of a surprise. Joining Tata Consultancy's chief executive at a downtown hotel, Clinton announced that the company would open a software development office in Buffalo and form a research partnership with a local university. Tata told a newspaper that it might hire as many as 200 people.

The answer to why Hillary would support an enemy of all of her natural Democratic allies, including labor unions, is simple. Money and political support.

Clinton is successfully wooing wealthy Indian Americans, many of them business leaders with close ties to their native country and an interest in protecting outsourcing laws and expanding access to worker visas. Her campaign has held three fundraisers in the Indian American community recently, one of which raised close to $3 million, its sponsor told an Indian news organization.

The problem with Hillary's 2003 deal with Tata Consultancy Services, however, is that it hasn't panned out. Today, four years later, the company project "landed" by Hillary Clinton "might" employ as many as ...10 people. I think that it's safe to say that they've probably outsourced more jobs than that.

Barack Obama's campaign made a big deal of this in June, highlighting Hillary's contradictory positions as savior of the American worker and supporter of outsourcing. Expect more soon.

http://news.aol.com/elections-blog/2007/07/30/hillary-hypocrite-when-its-profitable

Hillary Clinton stands up for Tatas, outsourcing

5 Mar 2004
WASHINGTON: Former First Lady Hillary Clinton on Wednesday defended the general principles of free trade and outsourcing , while rejecting suggestions that she was allowing Indian info-tech major Tata Consultancy Services (TCS) to take away jobs from the state that elected her to the Senate.

The New York Senator was ambushed by CNN’s Lou Dobbs on his show, a daily outlet for anti-free trade rants, with questions about a TCS center she opened last year in Buffalo in upstate New York despite the company’s reputation as an 'outsourcer.'

"Of course, I know they outsource," Clinton retorted. "But they have also brought jobs and they intend to be a source of new jobs in the state."

Outsourcing works both ways, she told Dobbs and his constituency of anti-free traders who tried to corner her on the issue. While not minimizing the problems of job flight, she said free trade also provided opportunities for the US to attract jobs from around the world if they got the domestic diagnosis right.

The administration and the Congress needed to figure out changes in tax codes and trade laws to provide incentives for companies to keep jobs at home and create new jobs instead of blindly striking out against outsourcing.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/538674.cms

Senators form 'Friends of India'

31 Mar 2004
WASHINGTON: A new bipartisan group called 'Friends of India' has been formed in the US Senate on the lines of the decade-old Congressional Caucus of India and Indian-Americans in the House of Representatives.

About 20 Senators have signed up for the new caucus, the first country-specific body in the Senate. It will be led by Texas Senator John Cornyn and co-chaired by New York’s Hillary Clinton.

Senate Majority Leader and Tennessee Republican Bill Frist and Minority Leader and South Dakota Democrat Thomas Daschle will also be members of the group, Cornyn said at a Capitol Hill Gala Dinner hosted by the American Association of Physicians of Indian Origin (AAPI) on Tuesday night.

The Senate caucus addresses the long-standing feeling among community activists that while India lobbied effectively on the House side, it lacked punch in the Senate, where lawmakers have often been uncaring or unapprised about India’s concerns. The India Caucus in the House has nearly 150 members.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/593175.cms

Hillary clears outsourcing air

Hillary Clinton made it apparent where she stood on outsourcing during her India visit, in an attempt perhaps to clear the Indian misgivings received during the Kerry campaign. "There is no way to legislate against reality. Outsourcing will continue," she told an audience of Indian big-wigs. She pointed out that there were 3 billion people who feel left behind and are trying to attack the modern world in the hope of turning the clock back on globalization. "It is not far-fetched to imagine ... if the Indian miracle would be the one of choice of those who feel left behind," said Hillary.

Hillary has been at the forefront in defending free trade and outsourcing. During the height of the anti-outsourcing backlash in the US last year, she faced considerable flak for defending Indian software giant Tata Consultancy Services (TCS) for opening a center in Buffalo, New York. "We are not against all outsourcing; we are not in favor of putting up fences," Hillary said firmly, despite inevitably invoking the ire of the anti-free trade brigade.

Hillary further clarified her position during her recent visit as well as solutions that could be beneficial to both countries. She urged Indian industries to invest more in the US to allay negative outpourings over outsourcing of American jobs to India. "I have to be frank. People in my country are losing their jobs and the US policymakers need to address this issue," she said. She ruled out that the anti-India feeling was a reflexive reaction, and explained that the feeling was more because of the imbalance in trade between the two countries, which in turn caused anguish among Americans about the nature of the economic relationship.

"In 2003, US merchandise exports to India was $5 billion, while India exports to the US was $13.8 billion. Though the US understood that the economic vibrancy of India was in its own interest, there are people who feel left behind and might stir up negative feelings against India because they do not understand the economic benefits of outsourcing," Clinton remarked.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/GC01Df03.html

Videos courtesy of "antigop."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=385&topic_id=57242
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=385&topic_id=57243

I found this to be quite interesting:

Indian companies are learning the Washington lobbying game

The US-India Political Action Committee has defended outsourcing vendors, most of whose employees are in India. In a sign of their changing approach, the Indian vendors are also imitating a tactic used against them in the last election: putting a human, and preferably American, face on the issue.

In the heat of the 2004 US presidential race, John Kerry likened outsourcing to treason, Lou Dobbs harangued against it from his CNN anchor chair and the Indian outsourcing vendors were left scrambling.

Engineers to the core, their leaders fired back with data-packed PowerPoint presentations. Outsourcing is good for the economy, they said; it increases efficiency; it creates more jobs than it costs. But in the eyes of Americans, those arguments proved no match for vivid tales of laid-off software engineers.

“Telling someone who loses their job in North Carolina or Jacksonville that this is good for the economy doesn’t work,” said Phiroz Vandrevala, Executive VP, Tata Consultancy Services.

Now as the 2008 US election starts to sizzle, the Indian outsourcing firms have returned to win Washington over as veritable insiders, slicker and better connected than ever. They have hired a former high official in the administration of President George W Bush as a lobbyist. They are humanising the issue by bringing Americans they have hired into meetings with politicians.

http://www.deccanherald.com/Content/Aug272007/eb2007082621598.asp



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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. A bit of spin there - but if that floats your boat. Economic theory - and her stated positions -
support other statements - but I am not into arguing tonight.
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juajen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #21
43. Hillary did not run for Senate until Bill was out of office
I do not remember her being "strongly in favor" of "Permanent free Trade Status for China. Do you have links? She does not approve of torture? Where are you getting all of this stuff?
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. Uhhh...
1. Bill Clinton was President until 2001. Hillary was elected in 2000.
2. I'll leave it as an exercise to you to Google on Mrs. Clinton and "free" trade with China.
3. Torture: http://www.hillaryproject.com/index.php?/wiki/Torture/. Also, her husband was the first president to practice "extraordinary rendition" - kidnapping people in one country and sending them to another to be tortured. If I were married to a sociopath that did things like that, I'd divorce him or her - wouldn't you?
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bpeale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
22. Two: IWR & Kyl-Liebermann
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
25. The best reason to not support "Hillary in the primary is that you like someone else better
Perhaps DK for having the "right" (single payer) health policy.

Perhaps Dodd for being more liberal than the others in the traditional sense.

Perhaps Edwards for being the most liberal of 3 front runners.

Perhaps Obama for being able to light up a room like no other.

Perhaps Bidden for having the best foreign policy head in this group.

Perhaps Richardson for being the best diplomat/fix it person in the crowd with experience with many foreign governments and hostile situations.

As to what is "wrong" with Hillary, she has been a progressive liberal since her high school "Goldwater girl" days - 1967 to 2007 - about 40 years - but she is less of a firebrand - my way or the highway - type since the disaster of 93 Health care (where Bill stopped her from allowing a discussion of single payer in her 512 person task force because he saw single payer as not being able to get through Congress). She is more pragmatic these days - with perhaps only Obama and his "bring us together" being more willing to compromise with the GOP. She is likely to be the slowest - by at least a few months at least - of the candidates in getting combat troops out of Iraq, and unlike some of the others, she sees a Korea like stay for 30,000 to 40,000 troops including 2 or 3 combat brigades (we have 20 there now plus a like number of mercenaries). I suspect all the candidates will end the role of mercenaries - but I would like that asked in a future debate. I believe all the candidates are on board the AFL/CIO legislative plan, but that is another question I would like to see asked in a debate.

She will enter Iowa with a high "expectations bar" that she is unlikely to exceed - meaning someone else will have the "mo" going into NH. The current polls - state and national - mean little - especially if she does not handle her Iowa "loss" well (she can win and not meet expectations and thereby lose - and it is quite possible she will not win to begin with in Iowa).
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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
26. Here are a few of mine:
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
29. Not coming out against immunity for telecoms for illegal wiretaps
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2145350
Reply #2:

The facts are, she and Richardson are the only 2 dem candidates who have not committed to fighting

the passage of the FISA bill this week, which would retroactively grant immunity to the telecoms, and the Bush Wh for illegally spying on us for 6 years. She has said she would consider, and think about doing something if elected.
Kucinich, Edwards, Dodd, biden,and Obama have all taken very strong stands on this issue.

Reply #3:

ACLU Rating: Hillary Clinton has a 72% lifetime rating from the ACLU, and a surprisingly low 33% rating to date for the 2006-2007 legislative session.
http://civilliberty.about.com/od/ussenators/p/hillary_clinton.htm
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #29
53. When was the passage of the FISA Bill this week?
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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
30. Omaha, how about all self respecting progressives refuse to support Hillary regardless
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
31. You will get plenty of selective propaganda. Take it with a ton of salt
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gulfcoastliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
32. She was on the board of Wal Mart for 6 years!

Hillary Clinton Feels Heat Over Wal-Mart Ties
by Beth Fouhy


NEW YORK -- With retailer Wal-Mart under fire for its labor and healthcare policies, one Democrat with ties to the company, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, has started feeling her share of the political heat.

Hillary Clinton was paid $18,000 each year she served on the board, plus $1,500 for each meeting she attended. By 1993 she had accumulated at least $100,000 in Wal-Mart stock.

Clinton served on Wal-Mart's board of directors for six years when her husband was governor of Arkansas. And the Rose Law Firm, where she was a partner, handled many of the Arkansas-based company's legal affairs.

Hillary Clinton had kind words for Wal-Mart as recently as 2004, when she told an audience at the convention of the National Retail Federation that her time on the board ''was a great experience in every respect."

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0312-01.htm


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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #32
54. Any mention why she left? If not...why don't you post it?
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gulfcoastliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #54
63. I believe she left when Bill started campaigning for prez.
She was on board all the years he was gov.
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
34. Because "corporations that employ" are NOT "Real Americans"
It was in her "defense of lobbyists" (YouTube Video) when she revealed that she (and the rest of the DC-Dem/DLCer crowd) "just doesn't get it."

This is not a "gaffe." It's an ideology.

---

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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #34
55. How does your post shake out with regards to Teachers, Nurses, Firemen..
Edited on Sat Oct-27-07 09:59 AM by Tellurian
who hire lobbyists for better pay and better working conditions?

Inquiring minds and all that...
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #55
57. People or Profit
Pick one. A corporation is not a person. And neither is a government.

People (through their unions/lobbyists/trade associations) are asking the rest of us (through our representatives) to change the regulations we impose (directly or indirectly) on their professions.

That's a political -- not a commercial -- activity.

It's an easy line to blur by pretending that "jobs" is the purpose of a corporation. But, it's not difficult to shake out.

---
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. Your definition is narrow and slanted..
Edited on Sat Oct-27-07 12:50 PM by Tellurian
the fact of the matter is it can be either way depending on how the legislative language is written.
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #60
68. ... and unrebutted.
By anything specific.

Unless you'd like to provide some of this "legislative language?"

===
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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
37. DLC -PPI- AIPAC -WAR -WAR -WAR
OH yea the CONSTITUTION has been shit on since the neocons took over.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #37
56. So, thats Hillary's fault?
How so?
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
42. Three major reasons
1. Her strategist Mark Penn, who is CEO of
2. the union-busting firm of Burson-Marsteller, which has a list of unbelievably clients, including the Saudi royal family and Blackwater
3. Indirect evidence of her intent to eliminate the DNC 50 state strategy. Quite a bit of money has been spent on Votebuilder, a national tracking system for Democratic and Dem-leaning voters. The understanding is that Dem campaigns who use it should feed back information into the system so we aren't reinventing the wheel with each campaign. Clinton's campaign has disdained using it, and spent a lot of money on her own alternative. That tells me that she intends to trash local organizing and put DNC money back in the pockets of her Beltway parasite friends.
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file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
44. One word: Oligarchy
Enough oligarchy already. Bush Clinton Bush Clinton..... Can we at least have someone from a new family every 28 years?
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lojasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
46. The convention isn't until August 25, 2008.
All the reason you need.
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TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
48. A lot of "funny money"
Either she doesn't know who is giving her money, or she doesn't care.
Neither instance fills me with assurance.

Our government exists to serve the people, not just the people that can pay.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-donors19oct19,0,4231217.story?coll=la-home-center


"That Hillary Clinton's campaign is involved with this particular cast of characters should give people pause," says John Moscow, a former Manhattan prosecutor. In the late 1980s and early '90s he led the investigation of the corrupt Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI) global financial empire -- a bank whose prominent shareholders included members of the Harken board. "Too many of the same names from earlier troubling circumstances suggests a lack of control over who she is dealing with," says Moscow, "or a policy of dealing with anyone who can pay."


http://www.alternet.org/story/65596/



My Favorite Master Artist: Karen Parker GhostWoman Studios
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CitizenLeft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
49. not a Clinton supporter...
Edited on Sat Oct-27-07 09:54 AM by CitizenLeft
I'm still holding out for Gore. But I do like her. And I do understand the reasons people don't want to vote for her - though, admittedly, I don't understand the unrelenting hatred. Yes, she's right of center on some issues, and that's enough reason for some on the left not to trust her. I totally understand that. Her votes ARE disturbing, but she was not alone on any stance she has taken, and has never voted "yea" on something alone that is repugnant - she's had plenty of company.

She is a politician. Her husband is the ultimate politician. My personal definition of that is someone who can do stupid, reckless, unpopular, or unforgivable things and be forgiven for them, and not only still be LIKED, but even be elected again (which he would be if he were able to run again). Bill Clinton's political savvy is every bit as solid as that of FDR & JFK, every bit. Those 2 presidents also did things, and took stances, that would be repellent to us here today. Clinton is a survivor, one of the most savvy politician's we've ever seen outside of the Kennedy family, and so is his wife. They are Pea and Pod. That in and of itself is damning; we want our candidates to be truthful and above reproach 24/7/365, but even the most honest-appearing candidates, like Kucinich, have their detractors and are not perfect. And I ask anyone to name me a brutally honest and above-board candidate who has EVER won a national election? I can't, but I can name one who came close to that ideal: Jimmy Carter. And look what happened to him. And as for the "honest and above-board," tell that to the Kennedy faction in 1980, who loathed him. They called him cold, calculating, and ruthless. Yeah, Jimmy Carter, LOL. A candidate liked 100% by everyone in their party does not exist and never will. So I try to stay out of these primary fights because they're pointless. The goal is to win the presidency, and that's what I focus on, and I won't even think about spending the precious little money I have to donate to any campaign until we have a nominee.

As far as trusting Hillary goes, I trust this: she IS pandering to the right because she and Bill, rightly so, believe that they can't win a national election without moderate Democrats, independents, and dissillusioned Republicans. It's that simple. (and that's not because there are more of "them" than there are of us, but because our base, overwhelmingly larger than the Republican base, doesn't always vote). I don't believe she's a war-mongerer, I don't believe she will do the bidding of corporations once in the WH, and I don't believe she's a cold bitch. I do believe she wants to WIN, and will - right or wrong - do anything it takes to win short of Republican dirty tricks. Bill Clinton never stooped to their level, ever, and his wife won't either. Pander? Yep. If she wins, I'll forgive her, because in the end, it's the Democratic congress - love 'em or hate 'em - she'll have to deal with, and believe me, THAT congress will NOT kiss a Democratic president's ass like we're seeing now. They will be hard on her, and if she truly does try to govern from the right - which I strongly doubt - they will check her... most ESPECIALLY the Progressive caucus will check her. Here's an understatement so huge I can't even attach an adjective to it: I find this conclusion much more satisfying than seeing ANY Republican win, LOL.

It's said that Bill Clinton campaigned from the left, but governed from the right... he had to, he had to deal with a hostile Congress who hated his guts and was out to get him from inaugeration day. Hillary Clinton is campaigning from the right to get those needed independent votes, but in my heart I strongly believe SHE will govern from the left, as I believe her husband wanted to do all along - she, unlike him, will have Congress behind her. He is a liberal at heart, always has been, but he will pander also, and do anything to win (his "how DARE you!" the other day is a perfect example of that). I think that is the kind of politician it takes to beat the Republicans - hard as nails and who will not scruple to take a stance like that to stave off accusations from the rightwing of "Clinton is a conspiracy theory nutcase!" especially if it gets people like Chris Matthews, who HATES Clinton, to say, "good for you, sir" :eyes:. And that's the difference between Hillary and Kerry, who I also liked (though, living in Ohio, I'll never believe that he DIDN'T win). Kerry is not as tough as these two, and was waaay too "honest" and nuanced. The Clintons are formidable.

Too long an answer, and pedantic as hell, but there ya go, LOL. I'm not sure that's what you were looking for, but good luck on whatever project this is. :hi:
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NCarolinawoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #49
62. I am not currently a Clinton supporter either, but I have to say.
your analysis of the Clintons and the political landscape is about one of the damned best I have ever seen on this board.

:thumbsup:
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
52. Here's the source you're looking for: www.freerepublic.com
They'll have what you're looking for, I'm sure.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
58. Boy it's sure funny how an OP asking Clinton supporters not to participate gets so many of them
Were you doing it on purpose, Omaha Steve?
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
59. She's getting more contributions from the defense industry than any other
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
61. h1-b Visas --watch the video
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #61
65. I Added Your Video Links
to my thread. (#64) Hope you don't mind. :-)
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. Great links, OhioChick. Thanks for post #64. n/t
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Omaha Steve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
69. I sent a simple letter asking AFSCME to not endorse Senator Clinton at this time

I decided against sending copies to all the locals. The AP would have covered the story had I done this. I decided not to piss in my own pool. This is the only place outside of AFSCME that this info will be mentioned.

OS

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