Clinton polling at 10% -is that fish I smell?

[Capn Sunshine]

OK, what doesn't add up here? Is DU a representative sample of "active"Democrats ? If Hillary is at 10% in the current DU straw poll, I can only assume her poll standing elsewhere in the real world might be slightly suspect.

Is it because Mark Penn didn't compose this poll in his inimitable push style?
Is it because the VHWC (Vast Hillary Wing Conspiracy) is actually a huge cardboard cutout of a movement?

Now, I understand the oft-repeated argument that "DU doesn't represent the party at large." I don't know what we are supposed to infer from that, but DLC apologists and Clinton supporters use it often as a weapon to bash Kucinich and Edwards supporters.

But Hell, DU doesn't represent DU in this case. 10% (62) votes for Clinton?? In our analysis of poster behavior here, we have found close to 30 people who do nothing but promote Clinton - more than is the case for any other candidate - some of them with 20 or more posts a day, day after day. More than once a day, every day, these people start threads about "poll results" that supposedly show Clinton with a huge and insurmountable lead. Then they post threads about how the other candidates are supposedly "getting desperate." Are we are seeing the careful and organized and coordinated development of a false and misleading narrative?

We know that Mark Penn and cohorts specialize in two things - they brag about their expertise in these areas at their website, and this sort of activity by this firm has been documented many times, so this is not controversial or in dispute.

First, concocting phony polls and disseminating them relentlessly for the purpose of steering and misleading public opinion. They engaged in a massive effort doing just this in Venzuela in an attempt at de-stabilizing the country and corrupting the elections there, to name but one example. Second, finding and directing "e-fluentials" - operatives whose job it is to spread a favorable message for Penn's clients online.

It seems highly likely that we have "e-fluentials" at work, which would explain why a candidate with 10% support gets 60% of the publicity there. DU does not represent DU, in that case. A small minority is able to loom larger then they are and steer the discussion.

But the same firm has a long and sordid history of using deceptive polls - Penn and Co., unlike legitimate polling firms, refuse to release their methodology or raw data to the public for scrutiny - which raises a more serious issue. Does the party represent the party? Are we being represented, or are we being marginalized and played for suckers?

(ps Thanks, Mike)

[IndianaJones]

1. lmao. nt.

[MethuenProgressive]

138. Isn't Obama still in 5th place in that poll, behind "Others"? Looks right to me!

:rofl:
Kucinich leads, Obama lags, in DU poll
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3652525&mesg_id=3652525

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

2. LOL... Is DU a representative sample of Democrats?

re: "I can only assume her poll standing elsewhere in the real world might be slightly suspect."

If you think DU is representative of the Democratic Party you will find all sorts of things suspect. You might, for instance, conclude that the national party is sympathetic to MIHOP arguments and plans to vote overwhelmingly for Kucinich.

To quote Sean Penn in David Mamet's "We're no Angels"... "If that comforts you, that's your business."

[Capn Sunshine]

71. I EDITED MY POST

to reflect what I was trying to say. I think DU is a useful barometer of "Active" Democrats.

Or not. I can't tell any more.

[MADem]

3. DU is NOT a representative sampling of Democrats.

As a group, this forum trends way, way, WAY left of the party as a whole.

Some folks may protest, and may not like that, but it's the truth. It's why Kucinich is so popular here.

Also, a big chunk of the party--the ones that get their asses out the door, in wheelchairs and on walkers, to go vote in EVERY election, from dogcatcher to president--are not even ONLINE. They don't use computers, they don't 'get' computers, they're uninterested in computers. Hell, they like the fact that PBS has brought back The Lawrence Welk Show. That's jazzy enough for them.

This forum is certainly a subset of the party, but that's all it is--a subset; of very vociferous, passionate and decidedly leftist types. There would probably be more centrists here if the far left folks didn't chase them away.

[Amonester]

15. What? Centrists are "easy" to scare?

Why?

[MADem]

22. Not really. They just tire easily of juvenile horseshit. NT

[Amonester]

29. I have seen many centrists post juvenile horsesh*t too. - eom

[MADem]

32. Well, that's not been my experience, but good for you. NT

[Richardo]

166. This is the correct response.

:patriot:

[Capn Sunshine]

25. I never meant to imply DU is representative of ALL Democarts

but certainly you'll grant me it should be close to "active Democrats" for polling purposes.
I frequently point out less than 10% of the party is even aware of DU. I'm a member of my State Central Committee, an Assembly delegate, and work on both National and State Democratic campaigns. I know what I'm talking about. I know many of the Hillary campaign's members from prior campaigns.

But I just don't understand the Hillary camp's failure to "DU" this one straw poll. Something is amiss here.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

35. If Hillary Tried To "Clinton" Every Online Poll It Would Be Like Chasing Her Tail

DSB

[TwilightZone]

45. Besides, what would be the point?

As far as the national picture is concerned, DU is pretty irrelevant. Paying a significant number of people to run around and "Clinton" DU polls would be an enormous waste of resources.

[Capn Sunshine]

59. The point? Why showing "invincibilty" of course

You folks need to get out more. The real word thinks Hillary already has the nom wrapped up, in part due to her "Invincible" meme media campaign and constant publication of Pen's push polls fed to his compliant polling organizations.

[TwilightZone]

65. *We* need to get out more?

You just wrote a silly missive about chasing around 30 DUers and analyzing their posting habits, and you think that WE should get out more?

Too funny.

[Capn Sunshine]

75. I've got people

I have a crack staff of analysts who devote their waking hours to national and global website analysis to assist my campaign field work. Hell Yeah we pay em . It's all for the greater good . Wanna join? You seem like a perfect fit.

[TwilightZone]

101. Just when I thought it couldn't get any funnier.

Your "crack staff" should probably spend more time dealing with reality, because that's where elections tend to take place.

[madfloridian]

115. I don't think he is kidding.

You gotta know Capn. He's got eyes in the back of his head, and resources.

[janx]

179. I KNOW he's not kidding.

We'd all be better off if he were.

[cuke]

118. Maybe he should get his staff of crack monkeys to post phony polls on DU

Do more good than "observing"

[Capn Sunshine]

140. Many posters handles reflect the reality of where they reside

That's all I'll say on the subject

[cuke]

204. Oscar, is that you?

A-Schwazeneger's been looking for you

[lojasmo]

157. "Invincible" is Kerry's "electable".

It's all manure.

Nice thread, Cap.

[janx]

165. Yeah, it sounds not-so-strangely familiar.

Let's just hope the result is not the same. ;-)

[D23MIURG23]

247. I don't think Kerry and Clinton are comperable at all.

If they were I wouldn't find the thought of voting for HRC uncomfortable at all. Kerry didn't have the kind of hawkish mentality that HRC shows.

Yes, Electable was the meme that put Kerry on top of the pack, but it was a similar meme on a very different package.

[MADem]

40. No, I can't grant you that at all. This is the LEFT wing of the party, by and large.

It has a few moderate lefties, damn few centrists, and almost none of the conservative-right wingers of the party (and yes, they exist, see Murtha, Jack).

Frankly, I am an undecided voter, and I have no idea what fucking poll you are talking about. Shit moves quick on this board. It can be at the top of the page one minute, and on page four the next.

You're overreaching if you think ANY poll here means much of anything, unless perhaps it is a vote on a new color scheme for the forum.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

61. You Also Need To Distinguish Between Ideologically Liberal And Operationally Liberal

On the political compass I am to the left of Gandhi and Mandella... If I voted that way I would have to write my own name in...

That's another bit of common sense that is lost here...

[Capn Sunshine]

66. EXCELLENT POINT

That's why IMO people will support a minority or woman candidate ideologically but there's a shift when they are alone in the voting booth. See that all the time .

[DemocratSinceBirth]

76. That's A Little Different Phenomenon

In that phenomenon folks are bullshitting the pollster because they don't want to look bigoted... But I would have to look at it more closely...

In fact Harold Ford actually did better in the voting booth than he did in TN polls...

[MADem]

82. Ford always said he needed a fifteen point lead to break even.

It was probably closer to two thirds that. He almost did it. That "call me" ad business didn't help; appealed to the worst characteristics of the male voter, frankly.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

89. What I Am Saying Is Ford Did Better At The Ballot Box Than He Did In The Polls

I know that's counter intutive but that's what it was...

The polls showed him losing by five, six, ten points, and he only lost by two or three...

[CTyankee]

103. I guess you know better than I, but my guess is that the polling failed

at being more inclusive in its sampling. That would invalidate a poll. Either some pro-Ford people opted out of the poll, or they were never asked in the first place. Either way, the poll was confounded.

BTW, what was the MOE of the polling you cited? How large was the sample?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

108. See Post 89

Harold outperformed several polls...

[CTyankee]

129. I was responding to post 89. My point was directed to your showing

a discrepancy between what people said in a poll and the actual vote. I was pointing out ways the poll could have been confounded and also I was wondering about the margin of error with regard to the spread in the vote vs. the poll.

I know people involved in political polling and it is a pretty scientific project all around. However, it is easy to ask in such a way that you see what you want to see, or not see, so care must be taken to conduct it according to standards that pollsters have established.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

104. Scroll Down To The TN Race

http://www.surveyusa.com/Scorecards/SUSA2006ElectionReportCard.htm


Harold did (better) at the ballot box than what he polled...

I think there was a perverse phenomenon going on...I think some Tennesseans were afraid their neighbors might have been masquerading as pollsters and checking up on them and they were afraid to say they were voting for an African American...

Harold was loathed here but I liked him and his father and realized he ran the campaign he had to run...

Losing 51-49 is nothing to be ashamed of...

[MADem]

I understand what you are saying. It's the reverse of "conventional wisdom"

The conventional wisdom being that Joe Cracker the voter will claim to a pollster to want to cast his vote for the black Democrat, so as to not appear racist, and then, in the privacy of the voting booth, go the other way because he really IS a racist.

Perhaps Joe Cracker was embarrassed to admit to a stranger that he wasn't a racist! Who knows?

Ford campaigned hard and had some serious GOTV working, too--and that might have accounted for the difference. If he'd had another week or so to campaign he just might have pulled it off.

[MADem]

78. Absolutely. In this virtual DU world, the 'ideological' wins out. Which is why

this place is way left of the 'operational,' real world, and any polls done here of the membership will reflect that fantasy element. At the end of the day, they're worthless, except to suggest a "wishing and hoping" aspect of a percentage of this membership.

[scarletwoman]

93. Here's the link to the poll being discussed:

10-26-2007 DU straw poll of all announced Democratic candidates

[MADem]

117. That poll pretty much bears out my assertion that this is the left wing of the party, here.NT

[scarletwoman]

119. Oh, I agree. I was just trying to be helpful, since you said you hadn't seen it. (nt)

[MADem]

121. Much appreciated, too! Thanks! nt

[janx]

181. MA Dem, I disagree that your conclusion is the only logical one.

It could well be (and probably is) that this is less a matter of ideology and more a matter of power and control.

It would be wise of us all to watch the primaries very carefully.

[cuke]

205. I think y'all are off-base

I think the divide is more about strategy and tactics than ideology. I think that, given the issue, between 80% and 98% would pretty much agree on where we want to end up, with most things getting well into the 90's

[MADem]

224. My assertion was simply that this forum is not reflective of the party as a whole.

Nothing to do with "power" or "control."

And this forum isn't reflective of the Democratic Party. That's plain fact.

Hell, a massive chunk of the membership here, at one time, were insisting that they'd NEVER vote for Kerry.

This group trends well left of the norm.

I am not attaching any 'quality' to that fact, it's just a fact.

It is what it is.

[TheDoorbellRang]

54. Actually, altho we keep hearing how far left we at DU are

I read a post here not too long ago (which I can't find right now)that I think explains us much better: it's not that we're far left, it's that we are, in general, much better informed than the general populace. And during these political times, I think the more informed one is, the more anger one has about what's been going on. In my youth, the "far left" were those in favor of the "commies." Don't see any of that here -- just a bunch of rightfully pissed off voters.

[MADem]

The result is the same, no matter what you want to call it.

Better read, more left, whatever. At the end of the day, this forum is NOT reflective of the party as a whole. It just isn't.

Far left=Commies is a right wing theme. I don't buy their definitions!

[sandnsea]

164. Everybody I know is online

And I live in rural America. Our local Dem Party has people who specifically bring online info to the monthly meetings. Our left rabble rousers have a local monthly email. I don't know what reality you live in. DU does have more active lefties, but the activists in my area also lean left. They just know the Presidential candidate has to appeal to a broader group of people, and that is what DUers tend to ignore.

[MADem]

227. I drive between forty and a hundred people to the polls, every election.

Not ONE of them is online. They're all over seventy, and they just don't do it. There may be three cell phones between the lot of them. And those few have no idea what "texting" is--they think it has something to do with textiles.

Really.

There's a whole world of people out there who just don't bother with the internet. And plenty of them are quite URBAN, too. They get their news from the PAPER. The actual paper, not the online version. They also turn on the TV, and the sharp ones like 'that nice Jim Lehrer.'

That's the reality I live in. And believe me, there's a massive percentage of voters--not talkers, actual voters--who live in that reality as well.

The internet isn't the universe. It's just a slice of it.

[sandnsea]

229. I live in a retirement town

Off the top of my head, I don't know anybody over 70 who isn't online and who doesn't have a cell phone. I don't exactly know who you are carting around, but it just isn't reality for all seniors either.

[MADem]

230. I'd venture to say you are in a unique, fairly well off environment.

http://www.pewinternet.org/trends/User_Demo_6.15.07.htm

As you can see, the percentages drop off dramatically at age 65+. Additionally, the poorer one is, the less likely they are to be online. The people I assist are on fixed incomes.

[sandnsea]

237. There are all kinds

From people living in mobile homes to the wealthy. I suspect the difference might be that we have retirement communities and each one of them have had a couple of people who have made themselves available for computer support to the community as a whole. They share parts and pass around older computers, etc. It's probably more due to that, and even the nature of small towns helping each other, than any economic difference. I think it's the knowledge gap more than the money, you can get used computers fairly cheap nowadays, dial-up is as low as $10 a month. But what's the point if the people don't know how to use them.

[KaptBunnyPants]

199. Too bad some of the "centrists" stay here to bitch.

If you are the majority in the rest of America, why do you always push the "purge the irrelevant leftists" line at a website which you don't respect?

[MADem]

226. How astounding rude, immature and obtuse of you.

What you call BITCHING is called DISCUSSION by some, indeed most.

If anyone is showing lack of respect, it's you.

This IS a website for Democrats--that's why it's called Democratic Underground. No one is suggesting, save you, putting false and asinine words in people's mouths, that any "purging" take place. You might want to look up the word--it's a bit different, you see, than people leaving under their own steam because they tire of fallacious arguments.

That's what happens, I guess, when you fail to read for comprehension.

And some of those centrists you seem happy to disparage are often the ones doing the heavy lifting during campaigns. That might be why they win so many of them.

But hey, whatever. Enjoy your ideological purity, and if you want to avoid angst such as the type you seem to be experiencing on this thread, I do suggest that avail yourself of that handy IGNORE button any time you come into proximity with any of those dreadful centrists that you cannot seem to bear.


:eyes:

[KaptBunnyPants]

240. Oh, "ideological purity". I thought people stopped using that line after it was exposed as trolling

And I do enjoy the ignore button. But seeing how thin your skin is, not to mention the hollowness your arguments, I think I won't be using it just yet. You, on the other hand, are more than welcome to run away from this discussion, if you please.

[MADem]

242. I don't think so, there, bunny. And my skin is plenty thick. I call 'em like I see 'em. NT

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. Obama Is Currently Polling At 9% Here

If you believe Barack Obama will only garner nine percent of Democratic primary voters there is nothing I can do to disabuse you of that notion...

DU is to the Democratic party what the Hell's Angels are to motorcycle enthusiasts...

[Capn Sunshine]

26. LOL

That's the best analogy I've ever heard! :rotfl:

[Froward69]

111. That analogy

is spot on... :toast:

[bobthedrummer]

5. I sincerely hope to see the results of a minimum 1,000 vote DU poll above all else.

With our membership polls like that should be easy.

We can DU that and then discuss it at length, let's get the 1,000 DU votes into this most recent DU straw poll of all announced Democratic candidates first. The last time I checked it was about 2/3rd's there.

Let's DU it.

IMPEACH CHENEY FIRST=IMPEACH CHENEY NOW!
:patriot:

[TwilightZone]

6. You could have saved yourself a lot of time...

if you'd realized that the answer to the question "Is DU a representative sample of Democrats?" is a resounding "no". Never has been, probably never will be.

[Capn Sunshine]

27. see my post above

I forgot most of you don't know what I think DU represents.

[jgraz]

7. Corporate $$ buys a lot of online advocacy

I wonder how some of these people are able to hold a job when they spend their entire day shilling for Hillary. :shrug:

I also think you have a point about the polling. If we don't have access to the methodolgy and the raw data, we can safely assume that the poll is bullshit.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

11. Both Clinton and Obama support on DU is exaggerated by enthusiastic boosters

Truth be told, neither of them seems to be particularly popular here numerically.

[cuke]

18. At least one Hillary supporter is unemployed

Me

[MADem]

87. As I said to you previously, you are not unemployed. The work you are doing is important,

caring for a family member. You're just not being compensated for it.

[cuke]

105. That was my point

I was responding to the comment "I wonder how some of these people are able to hold a job when they spend their entire day shilling for Hillary. "

The idiot doesn't realize some people can't afford to hold jobs

[cobalt1999]

8. OMG, stupidest post ever.

That's saying something around here too.

Tell you what, maybe take a course in statistics before posting about polls again. Save yourself the embarrassment.

[Capn Sunshine]

28. Thanks for the constructive answer

some folks around here find douchebaggery an effective form of commentary. I'm not among them.

[LandOLincoln]

80. Think again. n/t

[toughboy]

83. douchebaggery?

Like women much,spud?

[Capn Sunshine]

88. Spud?

Like Idaho much, juice?

(I love food slurs.)

[toughboy]

217. Clam up already, Quahog!

... the town was founded by Myles "Chatterbox" Musket. He was a sailor on the colony of Rhode Island boat and was thrown overboard for "speaking his mind" (non-stop). According to legend, a magical clam rescued him and brought him ashore, sharing the same vision as Musket: founding a new town named Quahog. The clam later left Musket, because Musket contemplated killing him. Musket never spoke again. These events are celebrated every year as "Quahog Clam Day".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quahog_(Family_Guy)

[madfloridian]

44. Hey...I thought you said MY post was stupidest? I am jealous.

:think:

[Capn Sunshine]

50. and well you should be

perhaps one of the most influential "stupidest" awards being handed out on DU
and * I * get it
NYAH NYAH NYAH

[madfloridian]

55. Heh Heh

:rofl:

[cobalt1999]

97. Hey, keep your awards straight.

You never got stupidest. You got "most emotional". :)

[madfloridian]

116. I am pretty sure you called me other bad things.

:wow:

[Capn Sunshine]

141. thanks for clarifying

awards are important to my CV :)

[skipos]

53. No, YOUR post is the stupidest post ever.

How about being polite to fellow DUers instead of being a condescending asshole? We are all on the same team here.

[madfloridian]

58. Applause

:applause:

[Fridays Child]

9. To paraphrase Dean, DU has a lot of Democratic members of the Democratic party.

We are far to the left of Hillary. And when you add us to the trolls, of which there are also many (IMO), Hillary will not poll well here.

[cobalt1999]

48. Fine show your work.

Where's your analysis DU matches reality in any way? Where's your analysis of online non-random polls against this audience vs. random scientific polling procedures? Do you have any conclusions that aren't based on your personal "feelings"?
.
.
.
Yes, I didn't think so.

[Fridays Child]

57. Hostile much?

:eyes:

[cobalt1999]

109. Hostile?

If there is one thing, I never take this place seriously enough to get emotional. What was hostile about asking a poster to revel the logic in his hypothesis, especially one that doesn't follow any basic rules of statistics?

Sorry if questioning someone who violates basic math and statistical rules seems hostile to you.

[Fridays Child]

125. Yes, I can well imagine.

[RC]

171. Hillary is being propped up in the real world.

Other wise she would be heavily 'swifted-boated' and she is not. Even bu$h came out in support of her. Something is wrong.

[TwilightZone]

10. "In our analysis of poster behavior here"

Stalk much?

[Capn Sunshine]

30. huh?

How is observing a board stalking?
See my comment on douchebaggery, amigo.

[TwilightZone]

36. "observing"

That is one of the funniest (unintentionally, of course) things I've ever read on DU.

[cuke]

62. redefining words - where have I seen that before

Now "analysis" means "observing"

[TwilightZone]

67. That was my thought.

Analyzing the posting habits of 30 DUers isn't observing. It's obsession.

[Capn Sunshine]

79. OK here's how it works:

A) gather information (observing)
B) wonder what it means when compared to ( aka "analyze)
C) PROFIT

[cuke]

81. gathering info != observing

If you had gathered information, you'd have information to share with us

[Capn Sunshine]

90. proprietary

sorry. You understand

[cuke]

107. Oh, I understand all right

[janx]

180. You do?

Can you elaborate? :shrug:

[cuke]

208. My theory

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3652705#3653946

It's as good as any I've heard so far

[HereSince1628]

12. DU is rather biased against the DLC. n/t

[Capn Sunshine]

That's very true

and yet they have a significant number of posters here, who, coincidentally , support Hillary.

I'm not completely hostile to the DLC as I recognize and understand their premise ( as a former member for many years)

but it's difficult for them to get an even up portrayal here.

[HereSince1628]

122. The progressive bent of DU is anti-elitist and consequently

into egalitarianism, which is hardly surprising for a bulletin board where everyone can chime in with equal opportunity.

The DLC is into the notion that a cadre of "winners" i.e., an elite, should be making decisions that are far beyond the kin of mortal humans.

The conflict in ideology is inevitable.

[Capn Sunshine]

143. well that's reading a lot into things

The DLC is dedicated to representing a corporate presence that they feel should not be exclusively the province of the Repubs.

Not everyone who practices capitalism is into the dehumanizing and destructive nature of the BushCo brand of capitalism.

Some of us remember the B-school chapters on "Corporate responsiblity."

[HereSince1628]

154. You've apparently not read the DLC;s own website over the past

several years.

They have published little about support of corporate Ameria and a lot about how the DLC is a membership by invitation only group.

Maybe I've read somethings into this, but it seems you have not read enough.

[janx]

173. Reread Capn's response to your post #12, especially the parenthetical.

He has done a lot more than read about the DLC

[HereSince1628]

218. Maybe, even if the claim to DLC membership is real, it doesn't mean

anything about a willingness to acknowledge the elitist crap that was posted on the DLC's own website for years.

The DLC makes a practice of luring voters promising a romantic kiss from an attractive face at the window at midnight, unfortunately voters find that after they've climbed the ladder in the dark the get presented with one great rosey arse.

[Buzz Clik]

13. DU straw polls are run multiple times every god damned day.

If I could find a link to that poll, I'd happily cast a vote for Santa Claus out of raw protest.

[bobthedrummer]

19. That is not true at all, and you know that eom

[Xipe Totec]

14. She's mean to the tinfoilers nt

[AzDar]

16. Frankly, I've always been suspicious of her 'nearly insurmountable' lead in the polls.

NO ONE I know personally will vote for her.
And those opposed to her candidacy are extremely passionate in their dislike for her.
She's being shoved down our throats for a reason, I'm sure...

[mrreowwr_kittty]

21. I actually do know several supporters

However, very few of them are the kind of activists who will do grunt work for a campaign. If Clinton gets the nod, I predict she'll be spending a great deal of that war chest on paid phone workers and canvassers. I've already had several active volunteers tell me they will work for local candidates only.

[Capn Sunshine]

37. You and me both

my on-ground experience is Hillary's camp has no presence yet among the active vols. Even in Iowa her groups tend to be compensated.

[MGKrebs]

34. You may not know them, but they are out there.

Boo!

Zip code 85224

McKellar, Rita
Chandler,AZ 85224
$230


McKellar, Rita
Chandler,AZ 85224
$150

SMITH-DANIELS, VICKI
CHANDLER,AZ 85224
$250

Weeden, Jason
Chandler,AZ 85224
$2,300


They give money, they will likely vote for her.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

47. There's A More Simple Phenomenon At Work

Folks tend to associate with folks who think like them ... They then get their own views shouted back at them and consequently think everybody thinks like them...

As to strangers or even casual acquaintances , most strangers or casual acquaintances take visual cues and don't want to say anything to offend people they meet...

I haven't met many people who voted for Bush; because I avoid them or knowing me they are not going to volunteer that information...

Gawd, you don't need a PHD in Sociology to have that insight into the human condition...

[AzDar]

49. Yesss...3 supporters in a city with a population of a quarter-mil.

How could I be so wrong????:eyes:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

51. Wow

You personally canvassed 250,000 people...

I'm impressed...

[AzDar]

98. As you should be.

Now, back to your Hillary altar to sacrifice little Kucinich figurines.....
Off you go..

[DemocratSinceBirth]

128. You're Quite A Comedienne

Don't quit your day job!

[MGKrebs]

73. Well then what IS your point?

I don't know anybody who ever met Pete Townsend. (At least that they have told me.)

[AzDar]

95. So you're saying 'we won't get fooled again'?

I like that.:crazy:

[onenote]

241. I've met Pete and Hillary

FWIW.

[MGKrebs]

245. Hopefully you wouldn't then extrapolate that into believing that

EVERYONE has met Pete, or that Pete's popularity is WAY underreported.

eh. heh. I said "extrapolate".

[MBS]

63. me, too

I also know no one who will vote for her. And most of them roundly dislike her. And all of them, like me, are Yellow-Dog democrats.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. Somebody Needs To Do A Search

They will learn three things...

In the run-up to the 04 primaries John Kerry consistently ran fourth or fifth in DU polls behind Kuninich, Clark and Dean!!!

And 37% of DUERs said they wouldn't vote for him he got the nomination!!!

I don't remember a third party getting 37% of the vote in 2004!!!

[mrreowwr_kittty]

23. I don't think the percentage who wouldn't vote for Clinton is nearly that high

Least not from what I've seen. I can't stand her but I'll damn sure be pulling the lever for her in Nov 08 if she's the nom. I don't know how excited I'll be to work on her campaign, but if she's running close in my state I'll be willing to pitch in there, too.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. Jefferson Dem Linked An 04 DU Poll

And according to that poll 37% of the respondents said they wouldn't vote for John Kerry...

That gives you an idea of the chasm between DU and the Democratic party ... If that doesn't do it, the fact that Kerry consistently ran fourth here might...

[cuke]

20. Hit and run flame bait

So worked up over the issue he has done analysis, but not worked up enough to respond

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cuke]

60. Still waiting to see this analysis

And when somone starts a topic, they usually don't disappear

[wyldwolf]

31. I've always given you more credit than this, Capn Sunshine.

[Capn Sunshine]

42. hey Wyld!

did you vote yet?

I have always considered you above the fray as well. Yet you disappoint me every day.
But I still love you.

[wyldwolf]

52. you're sounding almost desperate

I admit you've made a compelling case to those desperate for reassurance Clinton isn't really polling well, but those folks will latch on to any cheap stew meat tossed their way so you really wasted your time writing so much.

You could have just simply written: Clinton bad. Poll numbers rigged. DU represents whole Democratic party.

See? Same sentiment.

[madfloridian]

69. You are forgetting polls elsewhere in the blogosphere , WW

Like Kos and My DD etc.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

84. Hillary's Base Is

Working class voters

Older voters

African American voters

Voters with high school educations

I don't think those are the folks who hang out at DU, Kos, and MYDD...

[wyldwolf]

99. same and overlapping audience.

[TwilightZone]

127. They probably aren't any more representative of reality than DU is.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

130. Those Sites Are Gernerally Whiter, Richer, Younger , And More Educated Than The Rest Of America...

In other words they are atypical...

[madfloridian]

156. I represent a world of reality.

.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

72. But That Would Compel Him To Believe His Candidate Is Polling In Single Digits In "Real Life"

DSB

[Capn Sunshine]

96. Yeah, see? you get it!

There's something highly suspicious about this result.

[Capn Sunshine]

94. "Desperate"

word of the day from the Fax list.

Keep using it. But be careful not to wear it out !

[wyldwolf]

100. almost.

[cuke]

120. No danger of wearing out "desperate" when it comes to Obama

He's got plenty more where this came from

[Capn Sunshine]

144. lol

keep smiling

[cuke]

212. I love dog analogies

"those folks will latch on to any cheap stew meat tossed their way"

You get three woofs!

[madfloridian]

126. What is so funny is the wyy you guys treat Capn

as a lefty, liberal, fringe, like you do the rest of us.

Now I was pretty moderate, almost conservative, before Iraq. Not anymore.

But Capn is/was a DLCer and is seeing them in another light now.

Do not underestimate what he says.

[wyldwolf]

160. what is so funny is how you think you know our relationship

[madfloridian]

168. You have a relationship?

Actually I do know a lot.

[wyldwolf]

198. yes we do. It goes back several years

[Rowdyboy]

33. In what alternate universe does DU reflect the Democratic party? Never has, never will

I'll be glad when March gets here and this crap runs its course.

[Capn Sunshine]

43. well if you were here last time around

the unhappiness with the campaign more than made up for the bitterness of the primaries.

[Rowdyboy]

74. I don't remember it being anywhere near as nasty after the primary wars in 2004

Certainly there were serious concerns with the Kerry campaign (some were well justified), but in my memory at least, the vitriol and daily trashing of other Democrats greatly diminished.

Thats how I remember it. Guess it all depends on your perspective. I. as a sipporter of General Clark was happy to switch over and back John Kerry-from one good candidate to another. Sadly, Kerry wasn't "good" enough to beat Diebolt in Ohio.

[Capn Sunshine]

102. It was Kerry's campaign that defeated him

First they bungled a 18% lead inthe polls, then they advised him not to pursue the irregularities in Ohio. Same people in 2000 advised Gore to drop any appeals. Same guys who, in my opinion, will manage to have Hillary "lose" in a very close and disputed election.

And the beat goes on.

[TwilightZone]

110. 18% lead

Link, please. I don't recall that Kerry was ever that far ahead of Bush.

Curious, though. You believed those polls, but the current ones re: Hillary are completely wrong?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

133. Not Even Close-Scroll Down

http://www.surveyusa.com/Scorecards/Scorecard2004AllGeneralX.html

[TwilightZone]

134. That's what I thought.

More "facts", I guess.

[TwilightZone]

167. Hey, 8% and 18% aren't far apart, right?

http://www.pollingreport2.com/wh2004a.htm

And they wonder why their assertions get questioned....

[Capn Sunshine]

145. Post- convention Kerry's lead was around 18%.

Not for long though; they stumbled right out of the gate.

[TwilightZone]

148. Link, please.

Your "crack staff" should have that readily available.

[TwilightZone]

158. Well, you're only 10% off.

http://www.pollingreport2.com/wh2004a.htm

[TwilightZone]

136. Still waiting on that link re: the 18% lead Kerry had in '04.

(Insert Jeopardy music here)

[Capn Sunshine]

146. keep waiting

were you asleep in August '04?

[TwilightZone]

150. Then provide a link. Here, I'll help:

http://www.pollingreport2.com/wh2004a.htm

Perhaps you can point out the 18-point lead.

No? Well, isn't that a surprise. Kerry's lead was never higher than 8%.

[janx]

153. I don't know if I can watch it happen again--

I really don't.

[Bitwit1234]

38. 60% YEAH...OBAMA SUPPORTERS BASHING HER.

[Botany]

41. Vote for me, I am Hillary I am

Vote for me, I am Hillary I am

by Theodor Seuss Geisel



Vote for me, I am Hillary I am.

Sorry I can not do that ... no way I can.

support me, 'cause I get lots of press?

No sorry because you are part of "the insider's mess"

love me? "cause I gots lots of dough."

Sorry taking all the money from insurance companies
was really low.

Come on you old liberal .... don't cha' know it is a done deal?

No because I think you are one slippery eel.

Vote for me Hillary, because my campaign is a non stop train

But Ms. C. your votes on Iraq and Iran are hard to explain.

Look I am Hillary ... hear me roar ... my poll #s are to big to ignore

Sorry but I like Edwards and loves me some Al Gore.

Get w/ the program and support me, Ms. Hillary now!

Do we have royalty? Here is queen Hillary .... take a bow.

Come on support me .... remember my husband Bill?

Yes and President Edwards can put him in the U.N. .... that would be a thrill.

Why oh why will you not give me your vote?

Gee, Hillary I guess i am just a stubborn old goat.

[phen43]

46. Ha! Ha! good one!!

I just love a good Dr. Seuss story!!:applause:

[sufrommich]

56. Are you implying that Clinton supporters here

are being paid to infiltrate DU? Get over yourself.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

64. I Wish They Would Pay Me...

I'll post for pay for (almost) any Democrat...

[sufrommich]

149. Me too!

Funny how none of these paid posters ever blow the whistle,there being thousands of them all over the internets and all.

[Telly Savalas]

249. I confess. I'm a paid troll.

The Clinton campaign pays me $5000 a week for posting things like "HILARY KICKS ASS!!! OBAMA SUX!!!!" here at DU, because they know that not only will such posts be read by millions of people, but that almost all of them will be converted by such sublime rhetoric.

[cuke]

68. It's Obama! He is just waking up

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3652901

[phen43]

112. well, it's better than being asleep!!

:)

[cuke]

123. True, but Obama is stinky when he wakes up

I think that's the smell the OP referred to

[nashville_brook]

70. off to greatest you go...

[Cameron27]

77. lol

[Tom Rinaldo]

85. So what is Kucinich polling at DU? How closely does that reflect the nation? n/t

[CGowen]

92. 78% know that Hillary is running and 41% don't know even one GOP candidate

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3649179&mesg_id=3649179


Do you expect them to know who Dennis Kucinich is?

[Tom Rinaldo]

106. But that misses the point

Perhaps you can argue that it is name recognition that drives Hillary Clinton's high national poll numbers, while here on DU we know a lot about Dennis and so we give him 36% of our vote. But then there is nothing fishy about it, it has a simple explanation, one that you just provided, if you believe in the logic you gave.

I also think that we know a lot more about Obama and Dodd and Biden and Edwards compared to the average voter also, and still Dennis Kucinich is topping the DU poll above all of those men. To me that suggests another theory to at least partially explain the difference between DU polls and National Polls; DU members tend to be a lot more progressive, or radical, or whatever term you choose to define it than the average Democratic voter. If there is one thing that is consistent about DU polls it is that they wildly differ from mainstream polls, it is not just in regards to Clinton.

[CGowen]

114. There was a thread on Dennis not being included in polls.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1877359

[DemocratSinceBirth]

132. DK Is Included In The Lion's Share Of Polls

That poll was an anomaly, ergo:


http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08dem.htm




http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html

[Tom Rinaldo]

137. Dennis WAS included on the actual 2004 Primary ballots and...

...he had much more DU support than he did among actual voters. Do you think Kucinich would be polling 10% above Obama and 20% above Edwards in mainstream polls if he were always included in them? Don't get me wrong, I would be much happier if most Democrats were as progressive as most DUers, but I am not blind to the fact that they currently are not.

[CGowen]

139. I don't know, but it certainly creates a feedback

"I would vote for him but his polls are bad and he is not electable".. yadda.. yadda.......

[rodeodance]

86. yummy----the fish is smoked salmon. yummy

[Capn Sunshine]

91. Yeah this is a PNW based poll

Care for some Copper River?

[phen43]

113. Yum!!

Looks good!!

[aquart]

124. Fish? When referring to our only female candidate?

Real thoughtful phrasing there. Accidental? Or deliberate?

[CTyankee]

131. As my late, wonderful, mother would say:

"I smell a rat in Denmark." (somehow Hamlet got mixed up in the idiom!)

[aquart]

213. I am going to treasure that.

[Capn Sunshine]

147. OMG

Didn't even think of that. I meant fish, as in somethings Fishy.
Get your mind out of the gutter!

[Catchawave]

135. With Edwards and Kucinich well in the lead, it's a truly Progressive

sample of DU :hi:

[MethuenProgressive]

142. Well, concerning Kucinich, I agree. But Edwards is Fauxgressive.

His Senate record looks nothing like the I-wanna-be-President PR campaign of '07.

[Yukari Yakumo]

151. ... Dumbest, Post, Ever.

And I've been here awhile. But it takes a certain amount of misinformation, absurd generalization, and some outstanding lunacy to achieve the level of idiocy you've achieved just now.

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

155. We Tried To Tell Him That, Albeit More Diplomatically

DSB

[Capn Sunshine]

172. Hey, thanks!

Been here awhile, huh? How long? Since February 07? I forgot that questioning the way things are and questioning anything having to do with Hillary is just off limits here. Yeah, I sure am just stupid...stupid... stupid.

Am I reeking of desperation?
How about umm......absurdity?

[janx]

177. We'd all be much better off if that were the case, I assure you.

But Capn has first hand experience with these things. He has been around, shall we say. For the sake of what we think of as democracy in our country, I wish I could tell you otherwise.

I can't. :shrug:

[Trajan]

152. You have had many responses that I would have given ....

I would only add this: DU is a small slice of the Democratic Party pie .... It is important that we each recognize the reality of this, so we aren't deluded into believing something that isnt true: Hillary's support is wide in the Democratic Party electorate, which, from a national, presidential perspective, is more significant to the ultimate electoral contest come November 2008 than the cursing and handwringing from a small group, like our DU Forums.

That is NOT to say that everyone who supports Hillary is completely happy with all of her stances, nor that that larger group does not share the feelings of many here at DU. But it would be foolhardy to ignore the obvious inertia she is building in the national polity to this point.

Love her or Hate her: Hillary is a juggernaut that is building up an overwhelming head of steam, and while I would dismiss outlier polling with extreme variances between candidates: It is plain that Hillary IS popular within the entire electorate. This is an absolute fact.

Not my favorite, but so be it .... Until she seriously stumbles, or absent some grand heretofore unknown revelation of stupendous impact; Hillary will win the nomination ....

It will be the job of 'active Democrats' at DU to put her ass to the wheel, and demand accountability ....

[Capn Sunshine]

174. well , rinse and repeat

Hillary is a "juggernaut"

That is all.

Gotta be true, everyone says it.

[Trajan]

200. The numbers bear it out ....

As much as it may piss you off, or as much as you are forced to account for the difference in your own worldview versus that of these polls showing a lopsided favorite in Hillary Clinton; It will do you no good to suspend belief simply because it makes you uncomfortable to accept the facts ....

I know those who hate Hillary (I do not love the lady, but I do not hate her either) want to attribute her alleged lead in the polls to trickery and fraud, but there are just too many polls that too completely and unequivocally place her at the head of the pack ..... The only real question is by what percentage does she lead the other Democrats .... The lead is a fact ....

And yes ; Juggernaut .... apparently more successful than those of her opponents at this point in time .... You can object to the terminology til the cows come home, but the 'inevitability' of a Hillary nomination becomes clearer each and every day ....

Until you can wish her into the cornfield (or better yet; change the minds of millions of probable voters), she is the likely presidential nominee for the Democratic Party ....

No amount of anger on your behalf will change that ....

So now, by all means: Mock me ..... If it makes you feel better ....

[janx]

203. And yet...why is there "inevitability" when not one primary vote

has been cast?

:shrug:

This sounds so much like the Kerry "electable" term that lost the election of 2004.

This language is repetitive and tiresome. The results are the same. I'm not mocking you, and I'm relatively certain that Capn is not mocking you either.

[Trajan]

209. Shrugs ....

Whatevah ...... Enjoy your day ......

[cuke]

210. It's not quite the same as electable

Kerry was electable, whereas other candidates were not, and I'm not referring to Dean. Some could argue, and do very well, that Kerry was elected.

As far as inevitability goes, it's being applied to the primary, and while all the usual caveats still apply, it gets truer and truer with each passing day the other candidates do not knock her off her game. At some point in the not so distant future, it will be as close to inevitable as a candidate can get.

[lojasmo]

159. Most. threadjacked. thread. ever.

Interesting analysis, bud.

Too bad the 30 had to jump in.

Hey! Didn't something like this happen on '03?

*mumble* Recently endorsed Clinton...*mumble*

[DemocratSinceBirth]

161. What Are You Implying?

I have been posting here before you and eighty percent of the people in this thread, pal,

I am also a contributing member...I never play the contributing member card because it's bullshit...Do a search*... But I will play it when my integrity is beiing challenged...

[lojasmo]

162. "I never play the 'contributing member" card because it's bullshit"

Precious, peanut.

Your six extra months on DU makes you special too?

You should take it off some sweet jumps.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

163. Way To Hurt My Feelings, Skippy

Who the fuck are you to challenge people's motives?


on edit-I'm impressed you can count...

[Capn Sunshine]

175. Hey we could spend a whole thead on "who the fuck are you"

C'mon. Admit it ---you have penis envy.

[janx]

176. I applaud you for this thread, Capn.

If people only knew the extent to which they are manipulated during elections...If they only knew! ;-)

[Capn Sunshine]

182. I'm really surprised I have any hair left

Because I do know :hi:

[desi]

178. Number thirty here...

:hi: present and accounted for. Better late than never..

GO HILLARY!!

And NO I did not and will not vote in any silly "poll"..push or otherwise.

[Capn Sunshine]

183. Hi number 30!

Welcome to HU!

[desi]

184. Thanks Sunshine...

It's the only place to be...:toast:

[janx]

186. Well, it's not the only place to be, but surely it's a good one.

;-) :toast:

[desi]

189. Man that was not nice.

Guinness all over the place..thanks. :toast:

[janx]

191. I didn't mean to be unkind.

Stick around.

[desi]

193. Will do. And I shoulda said M'am..

sorry. What I meant was that you made me spray my Guiness. Cheers.

[bpeale]

169. i have thought this all along

the repugs WANT her to be the nominee otherwise why would the mainly repug media be touting her, and why would murdock be supporting her. this is all very suspect to me.

[janx]

170. The media stand to gain, certainly.

A slug fest! $$$$$$$

[Capn Sunshine]

185. what's wrong with this picture?

[desi]

187. I don't know...

Is the dude a white homophobic "ex-gay" gospel singer? :shrug:

[janx]

188. No... n/t

[desi]

190. Guess you're right

he appears not to be able to carry a tune. Somebody said Pete Townsend, yes?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

221. FIXED

Is the dude a white homophobic "ex-gay" gospel singer who believes gays are "cursed", and a war should be declared against them?

[desi]

192. BTW..

I like this pic much, much better. Two duly elected presidents and maybe one waiting in the wings...be sweet yes? Oh and maybe a First daughter Twice.

[janx]

196. Keep watching that telly.

;-)

[desi]

211. The Telly?

Shoot I'm not watching on the Telly. I'm already trying to score a ticket to an inauguration party. ;-)

[Yukari Yakumo]

194. Hmm?

[janx]

195. False analogy n/t

[ozone_man]

197. Not so close to Halloween!

That gives me the chills! :scared:

It is nice to see that DU is so progressive, and I understand that DU is more progressive than the Democratic party as a whole. And more progressive than even the "Democratic Wing" of the Party. But it seems a bit suspect when she can't poll over 10% here, yet polls around 50% nationally. So, maybe the MSM is helping these polls out?

I also think that at DU, we are resistant to MSM to a large extent, while the general electorate is more susceptible to their brainwashing. Democratic activists have to break through past the brainwashing of the MSM, kind of in the fashion of Howard Dean. The MSM did not like his message though, for example tighter regulation of the media. I seem to remember an interview he had with Chris Mathews about that. The beginning of the end for him I think. Anyway, the media has apparently chose their candidate for 2008.

[janx]

201. DU is not resistant to media--

not by a long shot. You might be, and I might be, but discussions here are still largely inspired by who said what on television.

The problem with most people is that they don't study sources (or lack of) carefully. For instance, during the time leading up to the primaries, people seem to cherry pick those sources who support some preconceived notions, and the media rely on this to make money.

There are very few media left who don't operate on a basis that is anything other than profit. We're heading in the direction of the UK tabloid media very fast, although the Guardian and BBC seem to be a decent alternative to most of what we have in the U.S. now.

I appreciate your point in that it illuminates some people's desire to get online and educate themselves. Maybe it's all we can do at this point.

[illinoisprogressive]

202. Neither polls nor DU are representative. What everyone forgets is unlike Republicans,

who usually fall into line under the leading candidate in a poll, democrats are historically impossible to poll or track.
The msm is breaking down and reading the polls of the democrats like they would a republican one.
Polling for democrats are totally impossible. They change their minds several times before settling on candidate, usually do not settle until right before voting and are dismissive of polls.
Even if penn tried to influence the polling like he did out of country, it would work better with republicans.
Being a republican himself he is thinking like a republican.
Democrats will do 2 things. They think polls suck and will be more likely to go for someone else than a front runner.
they are also notorious for playing with pollsters heads.

[janx]

207. I wish I could believe you!

But Dems have just as much herd mentality at this point as the Repubs do! Remember what happened after Iowa during the last primary: After all of that inter-Dem warfare, trading votes, swapping votes, etc., the Dems (as we're told) went for one candidate after only one primary. (Anybody but Bush, after all!)

The result is bizarre history. :shrug:

[sufrommich]

219. Do you have any real data to back up

anything which you just posted?
"Polling for democrats are totally impossible."
"democrats are historically impossible to poll or track."
"they are also notorious for playing with pollsters heads"

Where is this info coming from? I've never seen anything that even comes close to backing that up.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

222. Read Elisabeth Kubler Ross' Five Stages Of Grief

Most Obama supporters are still in the denial stage...

[Samantha]

206. I do not think it's so much fish as a FIX that you smell

I believe the fix on this one has been in for years now -- thus the cooperation you see between so-called leaders of the Democratic party and the man sitting in the Oval Office. Just my humble political opinion....

[BenDavid]

214. One cannot take serious any poll offered at

this website. Just like you cannot take serious the poll at the DailyKos.

Ben David

[MonkeyFunk]

215. So you take the fact

that a DU poll doesn't mesh with the real-world results, and your conclusion is that the real-world results are fucked up, and not DU? :rofl:

[Capn Sunshine]

216. well, it's been an experiment in terror

Thanks for playing

[Batshit_Bruin_CA]

250. Well, that was interesting, Cap'n.

Let us know when you plan to kick over another beehive. (ROFL).

That DU poll you cited will not accept votes from anyone who joined DU after polling began. (Doesn't matter if you've been reading DU for ages). So part of DU's progressive readership is excluded, in contrast with DFA or Dkos polls, which do not require membership to vote. Some people don't like to join groups or get on lists.

So much for statistical sampling, even when limited to a subgroup of "on-line progressives".

Another method of polling, seen at other sites, might give results more representative of DU readers, or at least more participation. The histogram of presidential candidate results can be presented three ways--(a) site members only, (b) nonmembers only, and (c) combined results. It's easy to separate the data by groups and ignore whatever you consider data contamination when you get unexpected (LOL) results.

I conclude from your OP:

"Just mark ALL polls for entertainment purposes only."

Cheers!

[DemFemme]

220. Well-known Democratic pollster Mark Mellman thinks Billary's national poll lead is bullshit

"If there was a law requiring relevance, national polls would be illegal."

~ Mellman, quoted in Salon, on polls showing Billary leading the Democratic race

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/10/26/polls/index_np.html

*******

"Mark Mellman is president of The Mellman Group and has worked for Democratic candidates and causes since 1982. Current clients include the majority leaders of both the House and Senate."

http://thehill.com/mark-mellman/hounding-fox-news-coverage-2007-03-20.html


*******

Billary's desperate attempt to hire 100+ staffers from Washington, DC demonstrates
her campaign is very worried about Iowa.

[wyldwolf]

223. How did you gather that conclusion from his statement?

He may think national polls are irrelevant, but his quote in no may says Clinton's lead in them is bullshit. :)

[TheFarseer]

225. have you noticed the influx of Hillary supporters around here?

she was a freaking leper about a month ago. Save Elmer and like two other people liked her. Now she's got a small army of supporters. It makes you wonder if her people are just getting more vocal or what's going on.

[DemFemme]

232. Billary's Internet Guru, Peter Daou, is covering the bases.

Billary gave him the largest budget for Internet "activities" of any campaign, period (well over
$1M).

Check out all of her most vocal supporters (and Obama's worst detractors) and see how many of
them joined up recently. I've a newbie, but I've been reading here for the past year and have
amusingly noted the same phenom.


Peter Daou used to have a popular blog called the Daou Report at Salon until Billary hired him
to coordinate her internet strategy. It's no coincidence that many of her supporters here sound
as if they are channelling Harold Wolfson.

[populistdriven]

235. I think 'Billary' is a dysphemism that will backfire on the GOP

Americans long for Clinton's economy.

[DemFemme]

236. Given their current two-for-one approach to campaigning, it's apt for purposes of description.

Americans may long for the economy, but they wish Clintons' NAFTA hadn't outsourced all the manufacturing jobs
and that Bill hadn't championed media consolidation, giving us the spectacle of Rupert Murdoch donating to Billary08.

[Moochy]

238. Trickle Down Campaign Economics

I guess theres a bit of a spray down here at the ground level.

[MonkeyFunk]

239. "Billary"?

How positively freeperish. Can Hitlery be far behind?

[populistdriven]

251. Dysphemisms are the Gateway drug to Eugenics - or so your post would infer

[populistdriven]

234. pay for post

[DemocratSinceBirth]

252. I Have To Take Care Of My Eighty Nine Year Old Mom And Hold Down A Job

Can you hook me up with a post for pay gig, please?

[progressoid]

228. Doood. It's an online poll.

It's completely meaningless.

[bagrman]

231. How Rovian.

[w4rma]

233. DU is a sampling of **informed** progressives. The nation is not, in general, informed. (nt)

[wyldwolf]

248. and you base that on what?

[Seabiscuit]

243. The OP certainly brought the DLC'ers here out of the woodwork.

There are a few dozen of them all with the same handle, spelled "Ign****".

Or could it all just be one poster? I'll never know, thank god.

[Stephanie]

244. I said the same thing far less eloquently a few weeks back.

You forgot to mention Peter Daou.

From this earlier thread

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2006/06/sen_clintons_courts_blogospher.html

New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton has pulled off a major coup in her evolving relationship with the liberal blogosphere.

She has hired Peter Daou, author of the Daou Report (a blog on Salon.com) and the director of blog operations for the 2004 presidential campaign of Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry. Daou will join Clinton's senate race fundraising committee, "Friends of Hillary."

In a post announcing his new job, Dauo said that "as a true believer in the importance of , I'm thrilled about Senator Clinton's interest in building this bridge with the online community and I intend to do everything I can to make it as productive as possible." As a "blog advisor" to Clinton, Daou will seek "to facilitate and expand her relationships with the netroots," he said.

***

Clinton's decision to bring on Daou -- coupled with the hiring of Jesse Berney, another liberal blogger -- shows a recognition on her behalf that blogs will play a crucial role in choosing the 2008 Democratic nominee and that she has work to do in the courtship of this increasingly important interest group.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/01/24/politics/main2395622.shtml

Clinton entered the presidential race by posting a Web video. And to run its Web operation, her campaign scooped up at least four political bloggers, including Peter Daou, who worked on Sen. John Kerry's 2004 presidential campaign and blogs for Salon and the Huffington Post.

"Internet and technology has become an integral part of politics, and it is a great way for Sen. Clinton to have a conversation with people," Daou, the campaign's Internet director, told CBSNews.com producer Christine Lagorio. "It is a wonderful democratic medium that allows people to connect with each other and with the campaign."

***

Bloggers are playing an increasingly significant role in presidential campaigns. Clinton has plucked Daou, along with Crystal Patterson (from DailyKos), Jesse Berney (who ran DNC blog operations in 2004) and Judd Legum (of Think Progress).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/03/AR2007050302546_pf.html

At Clinton headquarters in Arlington, integration means that Daou, who leads the Internet department's staff of 10, is considered a senior staffer but answers to the communications director. Daou reports to Howard Wolfson, who reports to Patti Solis Doyle, Clinton's campaign manager.

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2007/07/on_the_download_32.html

July 30, 2007
On The Download: Million Dollar Web Campaigns

It's time to welcome Hillary Clinton and Mitt Romney to the million-dollar club, as both presidential candidates have now spent at least $1 million on their Internet operations so far this year.

***

Hillary Clinton
Firms ($1,207,730 total): NGP Software, Inc ($700,725), Mayfield Strategies ($507,005).
Staff ($178,400 total): Jesse Berney, Peter Daou, Nancy Eiring, Sarah Foy*, Recardo Gibson*, Jess O'Connell*, Crystal Patterson, Kevin Thurman.
Minimum total: $1,386,130.

http://www.ontimefundraiser.com/index.php?mod=news&cmd=article&id=2

In 2004, the Dean camp and its followers used MeetUp to connect supporters; now, there’s MySpace, Facebook, Second Life and Eventful. Campaigns increasingly mine these social networks in an effort to connect with new voters.

And while some candidates would earlier want to get in touch with DailyKos, with its vast readership, they now also know that if they roll out a health care plan, for example, that the campaigns need to make sure those proposals find their way onto health blogs, Mr. Trippi said. Peter Daou, the Internet campaign director for Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, pointed to the message boards on AARP’s Web site, for example, as proof of another audience, or the readership of UrbanBaby.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0507/3933.html

“To most bloggers, authenticity is an important criterion. There is an allergic reaction to hypercautious politicians,” The Huffington Post’s Arianna Huffington wrote in an e-mail. “Hillary Clinton’s problem with the blogosphere is that she has been so calculating that you can smell it. Every thought has been processed through multiple channels in her and her consultants’ brains. It’s so fabricated.”

Exacerbating this criticism is Clinton’s standing as an inside-the-Beltway politician. Her employment of high-profile consultants such as pollster Mark Penn has drawn the condemnation of the blog community that sees this as the root cause of her cautious politicking. Most bloggers shun the label “anti-establishment.” But many blame the D.C.-insider, consultant-based method of campaigning that Clinton is utilizing for the Democrats’ (recently ended) political dry spell.

What effect opinions like these will have on the primary or general elections is unclear. In an April 2007 Daily Kos poll, Clinton received only 3 percent of the site users’ support. And yet, a Cook/RT Strategies national poll around the same time had her winning 36 percent of the potential Democratic vote.

Even veterans of online politics caution against overvaluing the blogosphere’s significance. “Candidates have been obsessing about bloggers and ignoring their base,” said Zack Exley, director of online organizing and communications for the 2004 John Kerry campaign. “The candidates need to make a direct connection with their base and turn that base on and get the $100 million.”

Clinton has made her share of plays for blogosphere support. She hired as her blog adviser Peter Daou, who in 2004 was the Kerry presidential campaign’s director of online response and blog outreach. She also brought onboard Jesse Berney, a prominent liberal blogger who worked for four years at the Democratic National Committee writing and editing Web and e-mail content.

[Basileus Basileon]

246. Um, no. DU is not an accurate sample of anything at all whatsoever.

DU is an accurate sample of DU, and DU is so small as to be completely insignificant. I understand getting your jollies by dreaming that HRC really cares about us, but frankly the only people who care about what DU thinks post here.

[mike from ri]

253. tired of all the hillary-obama spats? think inside the box ...

think of a square-shaped state; a state whose boundaries form a perfect box: New Mexico, a swing state that split its vote over the last two prez elections tighter than florida.

now think of its highly sucesssful chief executive: Governor Bill Richardson -- a canditate who combines hope and realism, experience and change.

[autorank]

254. Maybe it's this creepy theory of information warfare. Penn is part of this

strange group at times.

SWARMING