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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 05:57 PM
Original message
Pillow talk as public policy, and vice versa
Edited on Sat Oct-27-07 06:00 PM by babylonsister
And FTR, I don't consider this a slam but logical reasoning as to why records should be available, not why most everything is 'off limits'.

http://dickpolman.blogspot.com/2007/10/pillow-talk-as-public-policy-and-vice.html

Pillow talk as public policy, and vice versa

snip//

Here's the deal, apparently: She gets to tout her First Lady stint as proof of her governmental experience, but we on the receiving end don't get to find out exactly what she did. She gets to travel America extolling the successes of the Bill Clinton administration, and she gets to tell us how much she influenced his thinking, but we don't get the chance to learn exactly what she influenced (much less how and why).

To verify her experience claims, to understand the nature of her advice, and to determine whether her advice helped or hurt her husband's performance, we would need to have access to a number of things: her policy memos, her notes from strategy meetings, her appointment calendars, and a lot more. But there is no such access - as the respected biographer Sally Bedell Smith discovered recently when she visited the library. When she requested material on Hillary's advice to Bill about welfare reform, she was told that "policy" matters were off limits; when she requested material on Bill's advice to Hillary during her 2000 Senate campaign, she was told that "political" matters were off limits.

Much of this is Bill's doing; as Newsweek determined, after reviewing documents obtained from the National Archives under a Freedom of Information request, Bill decreed in a 2002 letter that there should be no speedy release of "sensitive policy, personal, or political" material. He was also very interested in slowing the release of "communications directly between the President and First Lady, and their families, unless routine in nature." Apparently he was casting a wide net, because neither of his immediate predecessors, George H. W. Bush and Ronald Reagan, has reportedly placed any controls on the papers of their respective spouses.

Democratic strategists and pro-Clinton archivists have been arguing for months that Bill and Hillary are rightly concerned about the pitfalls of disclosure, that Clinton critics would merely cherry-pick the most negative material. Yes, they would do that. It's just too bad that the voters won't have the chance to decide for themselves whether to believe the critics, or, more importantly, to decide whether the archives confirm Hillary's claims about the breadth of her experience.

The bottom line is that this issue demonstrates why the Clinton collaboration is so unique - and potentially troublesome.

As Hillary keeps telling us, she and Bill have been talking policy since the day they were married; it's part of what bonds them as a couple. But now that she's running for president herself, and people want to understandably find out more about the nature of their policy talk (since, after all, their policy talk affected the nation in the '90s and may well do so again), they're invoking an expansive zone of privacy. Witness Bill's abiding interest in safeguarding "communications between the President and First Lady." Witness Hillary's remark, during a Sept. 26 debate, that "I don't talk about my private conversations with my husband."

So the deal, for the '08 campaign, is that when Hillary touts her close collaboration with Bill, as part of what she calls her "35 years of experience," she expects the voter to simply take it on faith and not sweat the details. Because those details are under lock and key.
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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. With all the slithering slams and bashing against Hillary
you personally have posted YOU don't consider this bashing. Tsk tsk tsk...Damn if Obama doesn't get the nomination there are going to be a hell of a lot of pissy diapers around.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Why is anything posted about the Clintons bashing? Not true. I'd
like to know why her papers haven't been released. Do you know?
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Anything posted about the Clintons is bashing.
Any of the many busy, busy Clintonistas here will tell you it's true. And tell you, and tell you, and tell you again.

And they have polls to prove it, I've heard.

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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. This thread is bereft of them- did I mess up?nt
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. They must be having a secret talking points strategy session
:yoiks:

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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Ahhh, that explains it!!! nt
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Exultant Democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. Bashing, sexist and rightwing talking points. (did I miss anything?)n/t
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Don't forget jealousy
:hide:

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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. So what's the problem with releasing Clinton's papers? Doesn't the
public deserve to see them?
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phen43 Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I would like to know, too!!
what's being hidden? :patriot:
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Welcome to DU, phen43!
:toast:

It's a simple question no one seems able to answer. :shrug:
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phen43 Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-27-07 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Thanks!!
:)
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. not true
Although the tone of the piece is obnoxious, the basic point is legitimate.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
8. Still no takers. What's up with that? Bon soir, mes amies! nt
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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 01:45 AM
Response to Original message
10. Matthews was going ballistic about this yesterday.
This whole thing makes me feel like they are hiding something, and that's what I don't like about it.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. And what might they be hiding? It's troubling. nt
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CK_John Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
15. The proof of her influence is that Bill's presidency was very successful.
She took a smart man and made him look great. Bill only failed when she wasn't around to curb his "urges" as grandma would say.
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phen43 Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. I disagree
If you think that Hillary was "really" running things when Bill was in office, I think you are wrong about that. I still want to know what's being "hidden"?:patriot:
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CK_John Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. She has been the rudder in that relationship since the day they met. What's hidden that $70 mil and
10 yrs that the RW hasn't found?
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
20. Another Hillary Hater using right wing propoganda
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cuke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. "as the respected biographer Sally Bedell Smith discovered "
SBS is respected by the right wing. Thanks for carrying their water
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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
22. I would love a full record of all conversations between GWB and GHWB
But of course the father son privacy thing would be invoked, so whatever concerns here clearly aren't unique to Hillary...Its the power of these family political bonds that they can do that.

At the end of the day, as a Democrat, this argument doesn't sell me against Hillary. The bottom line is that I can't see her sitting at the side of the bed late at night in the whitehouse saying "Oh! I just don't know what to do about Iran! If only I had more experience!" and then the two term president lying naked in bed next to her: "Sorry Babe, I can't help you with that one..Letterman is on."

The thing is we all know that the experience Hillary brings to the whitehouse is named "Bill". Her personal experience is much less important when she's that close to that kind of consulting.
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