"We have learned the Left is NOT as powerful within the Democratic

[OHdem10]

Party as we once thought."--David Ignatious, WaPo on MTP this
AM.

They were discussing Iraq, Iran with emphasis on Iran, and potential
war there. The panel today Sunday believe Hilary has established
a good place for herself. Hawkish but steady not over-reactive
as some Gop Candidates. Rudy and Romney trying to "out-tough
each other.

For me the most important sentence Ignatius uttered. " We have now
learned the Left is not as powerful within the Democratic Party
as we thought." Watch to see as other Media follow.

[closeupready]

1. "We have now learned that al-qaida is not the force it once was."

I hate these Sunday morning talk shows.

[still_one]

2. The left, or even the progressive wing of the Democratic party are being taken for granted

In other words the Democratic party is making the assumption that the left or progressives have no choice and will vote Democratic in 2008

The left or progressives won't vote republican, but if they demoralize the left and progressives too much, it might result in them staying home and not voting

The Democrats should not take for granted anything in 2008

[populistdriven]

3. Or we might vote for Colbert.. nt

[CrispyQ]

5. "The Democrats should not take for granted anything in 2008"

Best statement of the day.

:thumbsup:

[Cha]

20. So now I know how

Gays feel and Afro-Americanos...the big dlc white men "HAVE LEARNED WE'RE NOT AS POWERFUL AS they THOUGHT(yeah like they can think without lobbying corporatewhores).

I'll fucking go vote and write my candidate in..oh, and thanks, david ignatious a lot, brudder, for getting on national corporatewhoremedia tv and telling us :wtf: you once thought.

hillary is a "campaign" not a real person. I don't like her and I don't like to be steamrolled by a bunch of fucking robots.

[appal_jack]

44. word-up, still_one

Somewhere between the time that the Clinton signed the legislation that had the Salvage Logging Rider on it (and Al Gore failed to lift a finger to stop it, despite the profuse evidence that the law was 100% written by and for the timber industry) and when Gore chose LIEberman to be his running mate, I decided to cast my vote for Nader in 2000.

This is the only time in my life that I have every voted "3rd Party" as a protest measure, and I only did so while living in a state (California) where Gore's electoral votes were pretty safe. For this informed choice that I had made to send a message to my Party's leadership, I have been repeatedly vilified (including on this board), yet the Democratic Party "leadership" act as if that message sent by tens of thousands of otherwise loyal democrats in 2000 never was received.

It's not that I expect perfection from any candidate. I just want something to feel genuinely hopeful about. If they had a genuine health plan that would cover 100% of Americans, I could tolerate a measured amount of corporate ass-kissing otherwise. If they would really and truly take-on corporate power and "personhood", I could tolerate them pursuing a few Big Energy "solutions" like "clean coal" or nuclear. Or if they would really craft a true sustainable national energy policy founded on wind, tides, solar, and perennial-biomass-fuels, I could put up with some international saber-rattling. Of course it would be best if they made the right choices on all the above issues, and ended the wars at home (on Drugs, and also against Constitutional Rights in general) and abroad (especially Iraq) besides. But too few Democratic candidates fail to distinguish themselves on any of these fronts.

Their time to retain the loyalty of their base is not infinite. Indeed, 2008 may be the last presidential election for a while that there is not a left-leading 3rd Party candidate. If the Democratic "leadership" continues to treat the left as a doormat, a serious3rd Party challenge could easily organize by 2012 sufficiently to torpedo Democratic presidential campaigns at that time.

I hope that Democrats deliver well before then, with some good freedom-protecting, sustainable, hopeful programs that effect real progressive change.

Then there will be no need for 3rd Party challenges from the left.

-app

[Tesha]

56. I will *ALWAYS* vote.

I will *ALWAYS* vote. But the Democrats have long since
worn out any "automatic" vote that I might in the past
have given them merely for being Democrats.

Tesha

[peace frog]

4. The left is as useful to the Dems

as the religious wingnuts are to the Repugs. They reliably turn up to vote the bastidges into office but then are routinely dismissed, discounted and ignored thereafter. Actually, I think the Dems more quickly forget who put them in office than do repukes.

[Vickers]

14. Sadly, I think your analogy is right.

This is something I am only recently starting to understand.

It feels pretty shitty to be marginalized. :(

[Cha]

21. Except in the bushits'

fucktards' ..they're pandering to the zealots the entire time.

[harun]

55. They pander effectively to them but in reality don't do much for

them.

Is abortion illegal? Is gay marriage illegal? Is illegal immigration being addressed? Are taxes really going down?

No, not really, no, hell no.

[geek tragedy]

6. The DLC owns the Democratic party lock, stock, and barrel.

And it will for the next 12-16 years if the Clintons get back in the White House.

[cuke]

13. That's why they put Dean in the DNC chair

[Cha]

22. Hello!! "THey" Did Not

put Dean in the DNC Chair. Dean worked for that Chair against their big fat fucking Wishes.

[cuke]

31. But, but , but WHY did the DLC let that happen?

I thought the DLC owns the party "lock, stock, and barrel"

[Cha]

38. The fuckers lost and Dean

won. Get over it carville.

[cuke]

39. How could the DLC lose if they own the party?

[Cha]

40. I know you're being

purposely obtuse..so I'll say this with that in mind..the dlc thinks they own the party but as with a lot in life..evilshitheads get fucked over by real people who have the best interests of the Principles of the Democratic Party on their agenda.

[cuke]

41. Hello!!!

The post I responded to originally says the DLC owns the party lock stock and barrel, and you think I'm being obtuse

[Cha]

43. You poor poor

thing.

[robinlynne]

45. but they did put in a hell of a lot of rightwing congresspeople and senators.

[cali]

30. They certainly did not. Dean fought a battle royale against

the DLC and centrists to become DNC Chair. That's hardly a secret.

[cuke]

32. But, but , but WHY did the DLC let that happen?

I thought the DLC owns the party "lock, stock, and barrel"

[cali]

33. Please. Don't insult my intelligence. Have you ever seen me

saying anything like that? No. But the DLC and affiliated folks did not want Dean, and he had to lobby the state chairs to get it, while they lobbied against him.

[cuke]

34. No, but trace back up this subthread

and that's exactly what you'll read.

I know that the DLC didn't want Dean, but Dean got the job anyway. So doesn't that prove that the DLC does NOT own the party lock stock and barrel? But you only objected to my "mistake" (which was really sarcasm sans smilie)

[cali]

35. yeah, but why pose that question to me, sarcasm smilie or not

I think the whole DLC paranoia is largely ridiculous.

[cuke]

36. Because you responded to my post

w/o any reference to what I was responding. I was making a point, and your response did not respond to that point, so I redirected you back with my question. As a result, we came to the logical conclusion that the DLC does not own the party lock stock and barrel

Sorry if you found that a bit rough, but I do respect your intelligence and your character

[rucky]

52. Dean's donor list. n/t

[sandnsea]

7. Hillary created the Iraq/Iran war policies

We are electing the exact person who is creating all the problems in the Democratic Party that we say we hate. Stunning.

[wyldwolf]

9. bwahaha hahahahaha hahahahaha hahahahahhahahahaha!

[Cha]

23. In our 1984 World( Hello, Orwell)..

this is business as usual.

[terisan]

8. We are an unrealized force-we have been too trusting of the corporate dem wing.

[Cha]

24. I haven't "trusted" them as far

as they dull, corporatewhore, greedy eyes can see.

[cascadiance]

10. We have learned that the MAJORITY of Democratic voters is no longer being represented by the party

... who has left the idea of representing it's consituency for the idea of representing its corporate backers and pretending to support the constituency on issues that their core corporate constituency doesn't care about (abortion, gay rights, etc.).

The so-called "left" of the party IS the party's constituency!

The DLC faction needs to be kicked out! It is a cancerous disease that needs to be removed!

[Cha]

25. Yes, that's what we've Learned.

And we already knew it but this Asshole, david ignatius, gets on corporatewhoremedia tv and tells us..how verificationally of him.

[Bjorn Against]

11. The question is why did they ever think the left was powerful in the Democratic Party?

These are the people who refuse to talk about what the left truly is, they used to be content with putting Hillary Clinton on and saying that she was ultra-liberal. Now it is obvious to pretty much everyone that Hillary was never as far to the left as they portrayed her as being, and is actually pretty conservative. They don't even give people who truly represent the left airtime, they just live in a fantasy world where the moderates are considered to be far left extremists. People are now starting to figure out their bullshit so now they are trying to backpedal, don't think this means they are going to start giving the left the time of day on any of the corporate "news" shows though.

[cuke]

15. I keep hearing the party has moved to the right, and the "base" is very left

I guess I just don't get the New Math or the New Politics

[Cha]

26. Yeah, I guess ya

don't.

[Cha]

27. They are dlc corporatewhores...why

would they care what The People think?

It doesn't compute with coporatewhorism..

[w4rma]

12. This was expected when so many so-called liberals are supporting Hillary (nt)

[robinlynne]

46. the liberals aren't supporting Hillary. They call themselves "centrists" and moderates.

[IndianaGreen]

16. The fact is that the American people don't run the United States

The ruling class and their allies in the Beltway punditry and the corporate media are the ones that run this country.

Working class Americans are either kept confused and divided by wedge issues, or are fed enough morsels to keep them from launching a revolution to topple the established order.

The only thing that kept us from a full blown fascist dictatorship was our beloved Constitution, and we lost that one too to the hysterics of 9-11.

[Cha]

28. We lost our Constitution because the

bushits LET 9/11 Happen..and the corporatewhoremedia has been carrying the BilgeWater for the bushits for a Very Long Time.

Not to say we can't get it back, though..We have some very Good People with a strong sense of "This isn't Fucking Good~!" on our side.

[IndianaJones]

17. we can hope. nt.

[Stop Cornyn]

18. If Hillary wins the nomination, he's right, but let's not call the election until after the vote.

Iowa has a history of rejecting candidates who expect a coronation; and Edwards has not run his media campaign in Iowa yet (here's the most recent tab of ad buys in Iowa):

[calteacherguy]

19. The far-right is becoming less powerful as well. Cuts both ways. nt

[Cha]

29. Yeah, real "less powerful"...

oh, wonderful.

[Basileus Basileon]

37. I bet this has absolutely nothing to do

with the fact that half the Left announces that it will no longer support the Democratic party every time they don't quite get their way. Were I running a campaign, I would not be looking here for my votes either.

[cuke]

42. That couldn't be it

It's got to be a massive conspiracy. I read about it on the internet

[Tesha]

57. As usual, you have your "cause" and "effect" reversed.

As usual, you have your "cause" and "effect" reversed.
I'm searching for a new party because the Democrats
have completely abandoned the principles that made
them attractive to me in the good days.

If they're no longer interested in any of the issues
that interest me, then I no longer am interested in
handing them my vote unquestioning.

Tesha

[mmonk]

47. Left is prety much a made up term these days.

Today it means someone who isn't rightwing in some area of thought or policy it seems whether it be the unAmerican concept of pre-emptive war to tax cuts with high debt and cuts in social programs to the more extremes of torture, spying on citizens without warrants and the end of due process.

[nealmhughes]

48. Henry Wallace was the last "Real Leftist" Democrat with a national base.

We know what happened to him in 1944 -- Dr. Win the War was ready to go tete a tete with Uncle Joe. . .so in came Truman. Then he split in 48 and was heard from no more.

[KoKo]

49. I guess we are just "unexploded SCUDS"...........LOL's

[rucky]

50. The Left doesn't play for power.

because we reject the dirty, bullshit methods people use to gain power.

nice Catch 22, eh?

what has to change first is what Americans want and respect in a leader. there are plenty of tricks the GOP uses to get elected - and we seem to be adopting some of those tactics. probably because - for some odd reason - they work. as ridiculous as some of the lies, spin, swiftboating and panders is to us - I'll be damned if they don't work.

I think Hillary sees this and knows we can't afford to wait for Americans to come around. My hope is that she governs like the leader the Left wants to see - even if she's not campaigning like one.

[jmp]

51. I will NOT vote for Hillary.

I do not consider myself a left winger by any stretch, nor would anyone who knows me ... but I refuse to live in a country with no opposition party. If Hillary wins the nomination, I will be casting a protest vote next November.

[Perry Logan]

53. If all this is true, why do progressive organizations feel so good about Hillary?

The following are polls from progressive groups, rating Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, on how often they vote for progressive issues. For each group, http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011142.php

Clinton Vs. Barack Obama (progressivepunch)
Overall Progressive Score: 92% 90%
Aid to Less Advantaged People at Home and Abroad: 98% 97%
Corporate Subsidies 100% N/A
Education, Humanities and the Arts 88% 100%
Environment 92% 100%
Fair Taxation 97% 100%
Family Planning 88% 80%
Government Checks on Corporate Power 95% 97%
Healthcare 98% 94%
Housing 100% 100%
Human Rights & Civil Liberties 82% 77%
Justice for All: Civil and Criminal 94% 91%
Labor Rights 91% 91%
Making Government Work for Everyone, Not Just the Rich or Powerful 94% 90%
War and Peace 80% 86%

[ShortnFiery]

54. Well Perry, I honestly believe that it ain't gonna be much of a party since the centrists'

"hidden agenda" of disliking and disowning us liberals at ever given opportunity has become glaringly apparent. Not much of a party at all ... but for a third time, y'all gonna have to learn the hard way - that's not only sad for "the party" but TRAGIC for The American People. :(

On Edit: I was commenting to your earlier comments that have been amended. Words to the effect of how "the left" tends to hinder the party. :shrug:

[Hatchling]

58. I have to admit I am confused.

I thought the Democratic party was The Left until recently.

I got interested in politics in the sixties as a teen. JFK/ RFK. Vietnam War, etc. The Dem party was the anti-war, civil liberties, civil rights, people party.

Life got difficult,so a detailed interest in politics was put to the side, but I always voted Dem because I knew the party had my liberal policies and interests at heart.

Now, that the world is such a mess and all the horrid things that have happened with this administration I have turned to a deeper interest in politics.

To my total amazement the liberal things I deeply believe in are relegated to the "dungeon" if you will. I am stunned. What happened to my party? And I feel guilt because I trusted in the party leaders to continue the good fight, while I was off doing my life, and I assumed my Democratic vote was electing the people who believed as I do.

What is this centrist shit?! My Democratic Party was never Centrist. We were the Left, the "bleeding heart Liberals" and we were proud of it!