Speaking of embarassing leadership...when is Robert Byrd retiring?

[IndianaJones]

There has to be a promising replacement in WV. How about the governor?

[Gman]

1. He was reelected last year

get over it. Byrd is a great senator.

[SteppingRazor]

2. Byrd's leaving the Senate feet first, God bless'em.

I don't think the guy intends to retire, seeing as he just got re-elected at the age of -- what, 88 or so?

[CountAllVotes]

3. when Hillary retires

<eom>

[IndianaJones]

12. he'll retire when she is elected President? woo hoo. nt.

[...of J.Temperance]

13. Hillary has WHAT exactly to do with a thread about Senator Robert Byrd? n/t

.

[Bitwit1234]

31. The republican plants who hate Hillary don't need a reason they

post hate at every turn...

[...of J.Temperance]

38. I'm surprised that the DLC hasn't been slurred already too....

Hillary and DLC USUALLY appear in the SAME sentence, along with "Corporate Whore" and "there's no difference between Hillary and the Neo-Con's and that's why I'LL NEVER vote for Hillary EVER!!!!"

[longjohnsilver]

57. centrist Dem

J, it seems as though you are a libertarian, not centrist dem. The Libertarian party is ok if you don't need any outside help but the people that do need it can only get help from the Dem party.

[hfojvt]

40. only that she is worse than Byrd

Byrd, btw, was the author of a bill, in January of 2003, to allow the weapons inspectors more time. From Wiki, I am so embarrassed about this episode:

"In the 107th Congress, Byrd suffered some legislative setbacks, particularly with respect to debates on homeland security. Byrd opposed the 2002 law creating the Homeland Security Department, saying it ceded too much authority to the executive branch. He led a filibuster against the resolution granting President George W. Bush broad power to wage a "preemptive" war against Iraq, but he could not get a majority of his own party to vote against cloture and against the resolution.<46> He also led the opposition to Bush's bid to win back the power to negotiate trade deals that Congress cannot amend, but lost overwhelmingly. But, in the 108th Congress, Byrd won his party's top seat on the new Homeland Security Appropriations Subcommittee.

Byrd was one of the Senate's most outspoken critics of the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

He appeared on March 7, 2003 on CNN's Larry King Live to discuss his U.S. Senate floor speeches against the Iraq War Resolution in 2002.

In a speech on March 13 he stated:

"If the United States leads the charge to war in the Persian Gulf, we may get lucky and achieve a rapid victory. But then we will face a second war: a war to win the peace in Iraq. This war will last many years and will surely cost hundreds of billions of dollars. In light of this enormous task, it would be a great mistake to expect that this will be a replay of the 1991 war. The stakes are much higher in this conflict."<3>
On March 19, 2003, when Bush ordered the invasion after receiving U.S. Congress approval, Byrd stated:

"Today I weep for my country. I have watched the events of recent months with a heavy, heavy heart. No more is the image of America one of strong, yet benevolent peacekeeper. The image of America has changed. Around the globe, our friends mistrust us, our word is disputed, our intentions are questioned. Instead of reasoning with those with whom we disagree, we demand obedience or threaten recrimination."<47>
Byrd also criticized Bush for his speech declaring the "end of major combat operations" in Iraq, which Bush made on the U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln. Byrd stated on the Senate floor:

"I do question the motives of a deskbound president who assumes the garb of a warrior for the purposes of a speech."<48>
On October 17, 2003, Byrd delivered a speech expressing his concerns about the future of the nation and his unequivocal antipathy to Bush's policies. Referencing the Hans Christian Andersen children's tale The Emperor's New Clothes, Byrd said of the president: "the emperor has no clothes." Byrd further lamented the "sheep-like" behavior of the "cowed Members of this Senate" and called on them to oppose the continuation of a "war based on falsehoods."

Byrd criticized what he saw as the stifling of dissent: "The right to ask questions, debate, and dissent is under attack. The drums of war are beaten ever louder in an attempt to drown out those who speak of our predicament in stark terms. Even in the Senate, our history and tradition of being the world's greatest deliberative body is being snubbed. This huge spending bill — $87 billion — has been rushed through this chamber in just one month. There were just three open hearings by the Senate Appropriations Committee on $87 billion — $87 for every minute since Jesus Christ was born — $87 billion without a single outside witness called to challenge the administration's line." Finally, Byrd quoted Nazi leader Hermann Göring who stated that rushing to war is easy if the proponent of war portrays opponents as unpatriotic.<49>"

[IndianaJones]

41. that excuses his bigotry. nt.

[longjohnsilver]

58. Byrd

Robert Byrd was the grand Cyclops, Their title not mine, of the KKK. Why he is allowed to be a US`Senator is amazing. He still uses the term Nigger as he did on 60 minutes but says we have White Niggers to so that makes him acceptable? Byrd should be traded to the republicans where he can sit with other members of the KKK. How can the nation heal the slavery division in this country when the dems have this man as a leader. We should just let David Duke in. And speaking of Racists, whats up with joe biden, first is the bigoted remark about indians and convenience stores now he says inner city schools are bad because to many minorities, Ie; African-Americans and Latinos. No he did not name the groups as blacks or browns but we know he wasn't talking about Asians.

[CountAllVotes]

44. no time frame is what I meant

she is the nominee already is what I think and I don't believe that Sen. Byrd will live forever.

Timing is what I am referring to, a point of reference is all.

Sheeeeeeeesh.

[...of J.Temperance]

47. Okay, that's cool n/t

.

[hlthe2b]

4. Wow... ole Bobby has (despite his checkered past history)

been quite the stand up guy to the Bush* attacks on the constitution, the war, and the lies--at a time when he was nearly alone. Most here really admire the guy for his gutsy stands.

So what has he done recently to have you flag him as so "embarrassing?" Sure he's up in years, but my heavens, he still does speak out forcefully... :shrug: (mandatory qualifier, I definitely don't agree with many of his pro-corporate stances, but on other issues, he has been a treasure)

[cuke]

51. He killed Universal Health Care in 1993

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconciliation_(Senate)

The Congressional Budget Act of 1974 created reconciliation. (See Pub.L. 93-344, § 310; 88 Stat. 297; 2 U.S.C. § 641.) But Congress came to use it in the 1980s. Congress used reconciliation to enact President Bill Clinton's 1993 (fiscal year 1994) budget. (See Pub.L. 103-66, 107 Stat. 312.) President Clinton wanted to use reconciliation to pass his health care plan, but Senator Robert Byrd insisted that the health care plan was out of bounds for a process that is theoretically about budgets.

[MADem]

5. Yeah, let's get rid of the one guy who beats the drum about the importance of the Constitution of

the United States. That's just, uh, so .... embarrassing...

:eyes:

:sarcasm:

[Mass]

8. And votes for every racist around?

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00392

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00393

At least Rockefeller knew how to vote NO.

[MADem]

18. Yeah, no other Democrat voted YEA!! Not a ONE!! Just Byrd!!!!

Oh, wait...er....that's not quite right, is it?

Akaka (D-HI)
Byrd (D-WV)
Conrad (D-ND)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Johnson (D-SD)
Lieberman (ID-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)

But hey....It's just GOTTA be that "racist" reason, doesn't it? There could be no other possible justification in his mind for voting the way he did...! They gave each other the nudge, the wink, and the secret handshake...

:eyes:

[IndianaJones]

20. he's a racist, so it probably was at least part of the reason. nt.

[MADem]

23. Yeah, him and Akaka....right-o, there.

:eyes:

[IndianaJones]

28. don't know what Akaka's reasons were. Byrd is a racist. nt.

[MADem]

34. Sure, rocket scientist, sure.

They couldn't possibly have the same reason for voting the way they did...no, of COURSE not.

:eyes:

[IndianaJones]

36. I salute your vigorous support of this racist. nt.

[MADem]

37. I note your enthusiastic efforts at tossing shit bombs and flames this day. NT

[Mass]

22. And they have nothing to be proud of either. I am not the only one is no excuse...

And yes, all these senators voted for a racist. (

[MADem]

24. Perhaps there were other factors they considered? But no, don't use your head,

don't suppose that they weighed options, saw that this was as good as it was gonna get, and dared to be pragmatic....go for the Kindergartenish reason!!! The flamebaity one!! Yeah...that's the ticket!!!!

[Mass]

27. Such as? Do you think Southwick was a good nominee and that our senators are idiots??

.(I assume you live in MA, of course). Sorry, I cannot figure why you are defending Southwick?

Did I miss something? Or is it admissible to vote for a racist now?

[MADem]

32. Jesus H. Fucking Christ on a Unicycle. I am NOT defending Southwick.

This binary thinking is moronic and tiresome. And that is not an insult, it is an observation.

I have the ability to perceive that the Senators who voted Yea on this measure may have considered a VARIETY of factors, to include that the next nominee might not be any better, that there may have been individual deals made between Senators (I can't vote Yea on this, I will get CREAMED if I do, so YOU do it, you can get away with it, and I'll cover you on the next vote for #fill in the blank#), or they were paying back a debt to someone who voted in a fashion that helped them. It's all quid pro quo up there on the Hill. Nothing's as straightforward as people like to paint it.

How do you think LBJ got the western Senators to vote FOR a watered down Voting Rights Bill when previously they had refused to compromise and were dug in like doughboys on the Maginot Line? Quid pro quo. It's how it works up there.

[cuke]

50. No, let's get rid of the guy who killed Universal Health care in 1993

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconciliation_(Senate)

The Congressional Budget Act of 1974 created reconciliation. (See Pub.L. 93-344, § 310; 88 Stat. 297; 2 U.S.C. § 641.) But Congress came to use it in the 1980s. Congress used reconciliation to enact President Bill Clinton's 1993 (fiscal year 1994) budget. (See Pub.L. 103-66, 107 Stat. 312.) President Clinton wanted to use reconciliation to pass his health care plan, but Senator Robert Byrd insisted that the health care plan was out of bounds for a process that is theoretically about budgets.

[MADem]

60. And he did it ALL BY HIMSELF, too!!!!!!!!

:eyes:

You know why Senator Clinton got her committee assignment on the SASC? A really, REALLY good job, a plum, for a freshman Senator?

Because Robert BYRD made it so.

I think she's forgiven him his sins; as progressives do.

Why can't you?

That's rather telling, really.

[Mass]

6. delete...

[Bjornsdotter]

7. Embarassing?

....hardly, at times Byrd was one of the few speaking out.

[Mass]

9. Like when confirming a racist?

[Bjornsdotter]

42. Please refer

...back to all of the previous posts on Byrd.

Cheers

[...of J.Temperance]

10. I support

Term Limits for Senators and Congresspeople....I don't think it's a healthy thing to have ANY politician in office pretty much for life....not just Senator Byrd but Senator Ted Stevens as well, he's been in The Senate nearly as long as Senator Byrd, it's not healthy in my humble opinion.

[cali]

17. I strongly do NOT support term limits

it's up to the electorate of each state to impose term limits. And there's little that can be done about Senators that don't know when to step down. However, I don't want my Senator to leave yet. He's been there almost 34 years, and if he runs again in 2010, he's got my vote.

[MADem]

21. I'm with you. Term limits are like telling an electorate that they're too stupid

to look at the issues and think for themselves.

Term limits would shaft me out of representation by two of the best Senators in the Senate.

[...of J.Temperance]

48. I'm not sure how you think that having Term Limits is like

"Telling an electorate that they're too stupid"

I don't think it's very democratic to have ANY politician in office for 40 years, 50 years et al.

I'm not a big fan of what I'd term "Career Politicians"....I think three terms in The Senate for example would be perfectly sufficient....and even then I'm being rather generous as that'd be 18 years per Senator.

Having 80 year-old plus politicians I don't think is a good thing....this of course, is just my personal opinion, and you have a right to disagree ditto Cali, and I respect your rights to disagree, I mean we can't agree on EVERYTHING, it'd be incredibly tedious if we agreed on everything ALL of the time.

There are Term Limits for President, why not for Senators and Congresspeople?

[MADem]

59. It's VERY democratic, thank you very much. You're telling the electorate they're too stupid.

Who the hell are YOU to tell the citizens of Massachusetts that we can't return Ted Kennedy to the Senate every six years? I think I speak for my fellow citizens when I say "Piss off" to that concept. We vote him in, DEMOCRATICALLY, yet you're suggesting that we can't have our choice--because YOU don't like it??? I don't think so.

If you don't like your Senator, get off your ass and campaign for his or her opponent. Don't wag your finger because he or she is so popular with his or her constituency that it's a cakewalk every six years.

There are some people who disagree with term limits for President, too. So making that argument isn't terribly germane. We'd probably still be under a Clinton Presidency, which would have followed an extra Reagan term, if that were the case. But ever since FDR, that's been the law of the land. Had FDR not stayed so long at the fair, and been so ill his last term, the law might not ever have changed.

[...of J.Temperance]

39. We'll just have to

Agree to disagree then on this topic :)

[moobu2]

11. I’m proud of Byrd

[...of J.Temperance]

15. He's been a useful vote, but I'd hardly say that I'm "proud" of Senator Byrd

He's given us a useful vote is all.

[Mass]

14. Byrd is always a touchy subject on DU. He can be a total racist and homophobe, when it comes to

saying it as it is, some DUers seem to have difficulties.

[IndianaJones]

16. he is a racist yet gets a pass for some reason. Is it the (D) next to his name? nt.

[Mass]

25. No. It is an idealization of Byrd because he voted against the IWR

and defends the constitution (whatever it is he defends).

Forget his vote for Alito, Roberts, ... Forget that he made a virulently homophobic speech when DOMA was voted. It does not matter in the eyes of some at DU. He is a god.

[LanternWaste]

33. I think it's because Sen. Byrd repudiated

I think it's because Sen. Byrd repudiated and owned up to his behaviour from over a generation ago. It's not the (D) next his name as much as it is his stellar voting record on civil rights since the early seventies.

But-- if past actions define us in there here and now as you seem to imply, there is not one of us so pure or righteous in our cause to advance progressivism.

[IndianaJones]

35. what about his recent bigotry? nt.

[cuke]

52. *crickets*

lots of blather about redemption, but when recent events are mentioned, the eloquence is replaced with silence

[cuke]

19. You mean the prick who killed Universal Health Care in 1993?

By ruling that Clinton's managed care plan could not be part of the budget, Byrd's action meant that the plan needed a filibuster-proof 60 votes (unacheivable) instead of the 50 votes it would need if it were included in the budget bill which could not be filibustered under Senate rules

[last_texas_dem]

26. I wouldn't be so optimistic about WV definitely voting for a Dem

As long as Byrd stays in the Senate he's probably a shoo-in at holding that seat for the Democrats. But an open seat in WV? Yeah, as you suggest, the Governor is very politically popular and could probably win that Senate seat- but from what I understand, he's a pretty conservative Dem and would probably vote to the right of Byrd. And if he chose not to run- who knows? WV has been trending red lately, particularly on the Presidential level. In my view, a right-wing Repug would be far more "embarrassing" for WV than Robert Byrd. So be careful what you wish for...

[IndianaJones]

29. I'll take a Democrat that isn't a bigot. nt.

[last_texas_dem]

30. Sure, but my point is that there's a good chance that Byrd's retirement

would lead to a replacement by a conservative Repug whom, it nearly goes w/o saying, would vote far worse on civil rights issues than Byrd does.

[WGS]

43. Is there a bridge or public

building in WV that isn't named after him?

[doc03]

55. Believe it or not there are a few n/t

[doc03]

56. Funny thing every time the subject

of Senator Byrd comes up on local talk radio a Republican will always call him Senator Robert KKK Byrd as though he actually disagrees with him. That's always the Repug talking point when it comes to Senator Byrd. If it was up to Senator Byrd we would not be in Iraq today and Bush would not have shredded the Constitution. Maybe he doesn't always tow the party line but he is a damn site better than Lieberman. As far as any vote he has made makes you think he is a racist, he is probably representing the majority view of his constituents. If Senator Byrd would retire his replacement would probably be much worse considering the current politics in WV.

[doc03]

45. The current governor is a DINO, the former

Governor Bob Wise would be my choice.

[...of J.Temperance]

46. What is a DINO? The Governor of West Virginia is a Democrat

DINO is a slur, in my humble opinion....there's no such thing as a DINO, there are only different wings of the Democratic Party....primarily Center and Liberal.

We MIGHT differ on some issues, but essentially we ALL want the same thing, we just have differing opinions on how to arrive there.

[doc03]

53. "There are only different wings of the Democratic

party...primarily Center and Liberal". I guess you're right if you consider Lieberman "center"? Joe Manchin is far right, I believe it was his campaign Chairman in the last election that was the head of the WV chamber of Commerce. He had the WV state slogan "Wild and Wonderful" replaced by "Open for Business"

On edit: Read post #49 Hippo-tron is spot on.

[Hippo_Tron]

49. Your threads show that you have no understanding of the current state of WV politics

IMO, in retrospect I would've liked to have seen Robert Byrd retire in the 90's when the state was more favorable to Democrats so that we could put some new blood in there.

West Virginia is a red state now and getting a Democrat elected there would be an uphill battle. To say that Joe Manchin is a DINO is charitable. The same would be the case for any Democrat who replaces Byrd, and it's likely that any replacement would vote the same way on judicial appointments.

[ProSense]

54. Remember when Hillary co-sponsored his birthday party, and

the Republicans jumped all over it: Pirro takes Clinton to task over Byrd birthday party