MIA: Edwards and Kerry on the Iraq handoff?

[Nazgul35]

A recent news story moving to the forefront this week is the Bush Admin's. hand off of Iraq by June 30th....

The UN has esentially signed off on the US hand off without elections, in other words, a hand picked council, so that Bush can stand in front of returning troops and smiling families for the summer...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040220/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq&cid=540&ncid=716

BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S. administrator L. Paul Bremer insisted Thursday that the United States will hand power to Iraqis by June 30 and won support from the United Nations (news - web sites) for moving ahead without immediate elections. The favored U.S. option is to expand the existing 25-member Iraqi Governing Council.

--snip--

The U.S. plan calls for Iraqi elections in 2005, but Shiite leaders say they want a vote sooner, even if it can't be before June 30. Shiites, believed to make up about 60 percent of Iraq's 25 million people, would likely dominate any elected government.

On Thursday, Ahmad al-Barak, a Shiite council member, said after meeting with al-Sistani that the Shiites were hoping for an early election but would be willing to wait.

"I think that elections can be held after five months from now and in that case we have no problem," al-Barak said. "Power could be transferred to the Iraqi people through the Governing Council or any other body."

Expanding the council could make it more broadly representative, but Shiites have said any expansion must respect the current alignment of power. Shiites now hold 13 of the 25 council seats.

SO Bush is about to hand us a major shit burger and I have heard nothing from the potential candidates about this....This situation can and probably will descend into civil war on top of the world's second largest oil supply....

I also heard today that the plan is to divide up the running of different aspects of the government amongst the council....who wants to bet on which section Chalabi gets?!

Here is an excellent review of what he and his family have been up to in Iraq with our cash....

http://www.tompaine.com/blog.cfm/ID/9953

Thanks to Newsday, and to Knut Royce, one of the all-time great reporters, we now know that Chalabi is not just a liar. He's also on the take. Royce reports that Chalabi-connected cronies—including members of his enormous family—have pocketed contracts from the Pentagon worth more than $400 million. One of them, Royce reports, allows former INC militiamen to provide security for Iraq's oil industry, giving huge power to a "private army" and giving Chalabi a lot of clout over Iraq's single most important source of cash. The second one is a deal to supply Iraq's fledgling armed forces.

I certainly hope that we hear something soon!!! If this goes forward as planned, Iraq will make Afganistan look like a week at Disney World!!! Just what we need!

[Nazgul35]

1. I guess my first mistake was asking

a question that was substantive...

To get a real response rate I should have started out denigrating Dean and his supporters and followed up by accusing Edwards' support as coming from Repug operatives out to subvert our system...

What the hell...it's not like anyone is being harmed by this whole Iraq fiasco thingy.....right? I mean you don't hear about it on tv what with Janet's boob, Trump's interns and which Dem candidate has the better hair...

:shrug:

[RafterMan]

2. Whoa, there

Or maybe people just disagree, but didn't want to argue with your heartfelt conclusions.

My opinion: the handoff has to come sometime, and the sooner the better. Voting beforehand won't prevent civil war, because everything still depends on the consent of the governed and the elected government would reflect the same divisions the appointed one does. If the Kurds and Shiites are on board (and it looks like they are) the Sunnis will be in a "cooperate or be left out in the cold" trap. This will be more apparent as Iraqi government comes to look less American.

It's good for Bush (which is bad), but I'll accept that if it gets the ball rolling.

As for Chalbi, I don't feel any animosity. I kind of admire the guy -- he's not an American and if he played the neocons like fiddles it's not like he's a traitor. If you tricked France into giving you a country and hundreds of millions of dollars, I would laugh at France's stupidity, not denegrate you.

Happy?

[For PaisAn]

4. Didn't you hear

Bremer has decided he will only ALLOW the type of democratic government that he deems acceptable. Is that a recipe for a peaceful handover?

[RafterMan]

12. But not ONLY Bremmer

If it's also agreeable to the Shiites and the Kurds, it's got a shot. From the article, it sounds like the Shiites are willing to give it a go and I can't think why the Kurds would object.

[Zhade]

5. Chalabi and his men are stealing us blind, along with b*sh.

Is this not a problem for you? Or his "intelligence" that helped get us into this illegal war in the first place?

This council and its electoral plans are just a sham to keep a hand-picked puppet government in place. Chalabi just got the right to basically loot the oil while keeping everyone back with a private army - does this raise any concerns in your mind?

[RafterMan]

10. Not at Chalabi

I blame the people that bought his bit, not him.

[Zhade]

13. You have no problem with a convicted embezzler stealing OUR tax dollars?

O.....kay. Um. Well, we clearly see different.

[RafterMan]

14. I admire his moxie

It's an all-time great con job.

Of course the war was antithetical to US interests, but why should Chalabi care about US interests? I'll save the noose for Richard Perle.

[Nazgul35]

6. No...I am not "happy"

the idea that we should leave is wrongheaded....

Anything short of staying for ten years is just turning Iraq over to chaos....

We do not need to stay there ourselves....we can internationalize the occupation...the biggest impediment to that happening is the chimp who occupies the WH....

I believe that our candidates....especially ones who supported the IWR should lend voice to this development.

Edwards has never backed off his support for IWR...
Kerry says Bush did it wrong.....

So what is their solution? This isn't an academic question for crying out loud!!!

Our training of Afgan rebels during the Soviet occupation,

followed by our support of Iraq during the first Persian Gulf War,

followed by our green light to invade Kuwait,

followed by our invasion of Iraq and stationing of troops in Saudia Arabia,

in conjunction with an abandonment of the Israel-Palistine peace process,

was followed by two planes hitting the Twin towers, one hitting the Pentagon and another a field in PA....


What do we expect if we allow Afganistan and now Iraq to further destablize the region? There is no going home on this one...sorry, but if we do not attempt to fix this mess....god only knows what the repercusions will be....

and neither of the two front runners are discussing it on the Dem side

[RafterMan]

11. It's a "sovereignty" handover, not a troop withdrawal

Maybe the article wasn't clear on that.

[Nazgul35]

15. wrong....

the June 30th deadline is so that the US can start to withdraw troops....this is Bush's requirement because he doesn't want dead soldiers at election time...

The motive is purely political

The timing is purely political

And this topic has been discussed at great lengths on many different blog sites (TPM, Kos, Atrios, etc...). The WH has even announced that they want to reduce troop strength in half. So please explain to me how you believe, as you stated in your original response, how this is going to make things better? And why the Dems shouldn't be discussing possible alternatives that would avoid the obvious scenario...

I mean how many times do the people who opposed this intervention to begin with have to be proved right before everyone will start to listen to them?!!!

[For PaisAn]

3. Important post

Newsday is my local newspaer and they are one of the best. They are pretty close to what a newspaper should be. A medium to INFORM us, not INFLUENCE us.

I highly doubt we will hear from Kerry or Edwards on this. Didn't you hear, the polls tell them that Iraq is not important. All people care about are jobs and domestic issues. What people don't realize is that Foriegn Policy and Domestic Issues are inextricably connected. Kerry & Edwards certainly aren't going to draw attention to this fact because that would point directly to their IWR vote.

[mgmartin]

7. What ever happened to

World peace? Since when did American jobs become more important? How can America become more productive without world peace?

[Nazgul35]

amen...

it is precisely this "who cares" attitude that leads to crappy foreign policy and 3,000 dead citizens...

We can no longer afford to be oblivious about what is done in our country's name abroad...the world has gotten too dangerous and to easy to deliver death....this lack of attention to detail is crimminal....

But I fear that since Al and Dennis are not even being covered any more and Dean and Clark are gone....we will not hear of this again....

Sad really!!

:evilfrown:

[snoochie]

8. Can you say "Vietnamization"?

I don't think that the US needs to stay there as I think that will only foster hostilities, but I do think we need to back off and let the UN work with the people of Iraq to sort out their government. Also crucial, of course, is releasing our death grip on Iraq's natural resources and reconstruction contracts.

This plan of bush's is so reminescent of Vietnamization. :(

[Nazgul35]

9. yes...I agree!

But there needs to be a security presence....

That does not need to be the US and to withdraw without the proper care to seeing that all was in order would be crimminal at the very least....

Hell, we can't even take care of the place with 125k troops....we need NATO, the UN and Muslem nations to help provide for the transition from US dominated to UN lead...

Dennis is right about turning over all aspects of the occupation to the UN, but as a member of the UN and the country that caused this problem, complete withdraw is not an option....we would need to maintain some force level....perhaps take control of the Kurdish section's security...