A closer look at John Kerry's character.

[Meldread]

I think this is the perfect example of how much of a sell out Kerry is. Think long and hard on this interview, Kerry folks, and then ask yourselves if you want a man like John Kerry sitting in the White House willing to sell you out, our environment out for something that benefits him. This is extremely telling on Kerry’s character. You can read the entire transcript here.




MATTHEWS: OK, thank you, Keith Olbermann.
James Hoffa is obviously—as everybody knows, he‘s president of the Teamsters Union.

<snip>

MATTHEWS: ... Do you have anything really in common with John Kerry, really?

HOFFA: Well, we sat with him. I interviewed him. I‘ve spent some time with him.

<snip>

MATTHEWS: Yes. But isn‘t he the same guy...

HOFFA: He‘s got a lot of plans.

<snip>

MATTHEWS: Bill Clinton was for NAFTA. He was for NAFTA. George W. Bush is for NAFTA. His father was pushing it from the beginning. The Bushes basically are the godfather of NAFTA. And Bill Clinton and John Kerry signed aboard as consiglieres in that. How can you say that he is your guy if he on the other side of the main issue?

HOFFA: Because that‘s one of the key issues I asked him. I said, how can we vote for you after you voted for NAFTA and these other agreements?

MATTHEWS: And he said?

HOFFA: And he basically says, look, times have changed. When we voted for that, we thought it would work. He believes that it worked throughout the Clinton era. And now things have changed.

<snip>

And he realizes something is wrong and he says he is going to form a committee. And I am going to be on the committee. In the first 120 days, we are going to review NAFTA, China and all the different deals.

MATTHEWS: How about ANWR? You guys want to see ANWR because you want to see guys working in your business. I guess there‘s a lot of Teamsters jobs up there lined up and organized, if you could put a pipeline up to the Alaska wilderness. He is against that.

HOFFA: Well, we talked about that.

He says, look, I am against ANWR, but I am going to put that pipeline in and we‘re going to drill like never before.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: What, are they going to run water through it?

(CROSSTALK)

HOFFA: ... more jobs than the ANWR would have ever created.

MATTHEWS: What are they going to run through the pipeline?

HOFFA: And that‘s the position he‘s taking.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: But he is against drilling up there. What are they going to run through the pipeline?

HOFFA: Well, they are going to drill all over, according to him. And he says, we‘re going to be drilling all over the United States. And he says that is going to create more jobs.

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: You got that guy rolling.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: What position was he in when he made all these promises?

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: It just seems amazing that he has turned around on NAFTA, turned around on WTO, turned around on ANWR, anything to get the Teamsters.

HOFFA: Oh.

MATTHEWS: Who is going to be boss if he gets in there, you or him?

HOFFA: Well, I think that

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: It sounds like you are the boss.

[jeffsurfus]

1. It's bogus. Here's what Kerry said on CNN...

in response to the Hoffa interview:

WOODRUFF: Senator, questions are already being raised about what you said
to some of these labor leaders in order to get their endorsement. James
Hoffa of the Teamsters said in an interview just this week, he said you
told him that while you opposed drilling in ANWAR -- the Arctic National
Wildlife Refuge -- that you are, quote, he said, going to put that
pipeline in and drill like never before, drill all over the United States
to create more jobs.

KERRY: I think he -- I said exactly what my policy has been all my life.
Which is I'm for the natural gas pipeline. Absolutely. I voted for the
natural gas pipeline. I think it's important to build it. And so do most
Americans. I'm also for the drilling in the 95 percent of the Alaska oil
shelf that's up for leasing now. In fact, President Clinton put out the
biggest lease in American history in that part of the shelf. I'm not for
drilling in the Arctic Wildlife Refuge and I haven't changed and I won't
change.

WOODRUFF: You're saying there's no contradiction here?

KERRY: Absolutely none whatsoever.
__________

ANWR will be untouched in the Kerry presidency!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

8. Kerry is god of green. He is enviro-king. He is the best for earth.

eom

[RetroLounge]

71. Isn't he the Lizard King?

or is he the Walrus?

I get these rock stars so confused...

[Warpy]

18. Fe fi fo fum

Attacking the character of Democrats on Democratic message boards is part of the modus operandi of decreasing votes for any and all Democratic candidates. The hope is to convince Democrats that their candidates are all so utterly lacking in character and principle that the best bet is to get home on time instead of stopping off to vote.

It's worked in the past. Sad, isn't it?

(edited for a stupid typo)

[Meldread]

20. It's laughable to call me a Republican.

I suppose you have no better come back than that. Anyone who has read my posts knows for a fact that I'm a Dean supporter, and now that Dean has dropped out of the race I am also an Edwards supporter.

I am simply pointing out obvious character flaws with Kerry. Obvious contradictions. Let's face the facts: Either Kerry is lying to us or he is lying to Unions, but he's lying to somebody. And that lie is to gain votes/support.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

24. Let's face the facts

you posted an interview with James Hoffa, and choose to ignore the fact that the entire panel was laughing at him.


That IS laughable.

[Meldread]

32. I *SAID* that.

I said the entire panel was laughing at him, because they were -- because Hoffa believed it.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

38. I'm not fooled by such dissembling.

:eyes:

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[liberalnurse]

2. Kerry will not do well against *bush......

He is a sitting duck......Geeze.......I watched that interview too. I had to drink Pepto-Bismol after it.........


Thank goodness Edwards is still in the loop.

[Slice]

5. Dean would have done even worse

nt

[liberalnurse]

7. Dean isn't in the field anymore......

so please keep the tash in the pail......

[Slice]

11. Sorry

Nah gunna do it. Wouldn't be prudent.

[liberalnurse]

68. Thank you so very very much for your peer support.

Dean is no longer running but he seems to live on beyond Kennedy, King and Elvis.......


If it were not for such fine, loving passionate and dedicated democrats, Dean may not be the topic of every post. Of course we must be prudent......

Thank you so much for your mission...... I will pray for you.

[Meldread]

21. ROFL.

If you think that then you are crazier than the media claimed Dean to be. Dean has a good record on Environmental Issues, and to top that off he has proven time and time again (much to his own detriment) that he won't change his message to get votes/support.

So if you honestly believe that then men in the white coats are coming for you, sir.

[sadiesworld]

12. What will happen to Edwards when Buchco sends hordes

of researchers to comb through the files of every case he has ever filed? They will go through every pleading, settlement, deposition and taped court proceeding on file. They will then find every sleazy plaintiff and disgruntled defendant in the country. I for one wanted a 38 military record for them to paw through, but I'll take the senate record at this poit. Hell, people will just be bored by most of it, but trial transcripts-that'll perk them right up.

[spooky3]

19. I agree with you that the Rovians will stop at nothing,

but do you know how many of Edwards' cases were lost and how many that he won were overturned on appeal? You might worry a lot less about this if you did. And he has plenty of experience in fending off these silly attacks and coming out smelling like a rose.

[JI7]

3. they were joking around

as was obvious to anyone who saw it and as is shown by the "(LAUGHTER)" in the transcript.

"MATTHEWS: But he is against drilling up there. What are they going to run through the pipeline?

HOFFA: Well, they are going to drill all over, according to him. And he says, we‘re going to be drilling all over the United States. And he says that is going to create more jobs.

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: You got that guy rolling.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: What position was he in when he made all these promises?

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)
"

[Meldread]

22. They weren't joking. I *SAW* the interview.

Matthews and the other panelists were laughing at Hoffa because he BELIEVED it. Hoffa kept going on and on about what Kerry said to him, and when Matthews said that Kerry would do anything for the Teamsters Endorsement Hoffa just said "Oh". The guy just at that moment realized he'd been conned and then went into spin mode. It was like telling an elderly lady that the nice man she gave her life savings to really wasn't from a Charity like he said.

Hoffa wasn't laughing -- Hoffa was serious. Everyone else was laughing at Hoffa.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

25. Baloney

[Meldread]

31. It's true. I encourage everyone to actually watch the interview.

A picture is worth a thousand words, and when Matthews said that Kerry would do anything for the Teamsters Endorsement, Hoffa's face said it all.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

42. I'll take Kerry's record over your interpretations

A dishonest post is worth a thousand words as well...mostly ones I am not free to post.

[Meldread]

46. What? Are you *AFRAID* to go watch the interview?

Because you know my "interpretations" are correct?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

49. We've all already seen it.

at least the poster you are responding to has alread said she's seen it, and I've already seen it, and yes, anyone who has even the slightest inclination to believe your disingenous claims should watch it for themselves.

:eyes:

[Meldread]

59. They have.

..and http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=368789&mesg_id=369659&page=">they agreed.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

53. changed my mind..this propaganda isn't worth risking my participation

in rebutting it

[JVS]

69. his old record of good politics or his recent record of caving constantly?

[Slice]

4. Well

Do you care more about the environment or do you care more about jobs?

I personally care a lot more about jobs. I say open up ANWR and other areas for development, so that we can have some jobs for unions.

That is, unless you are willing to pay the salaries of lots of people in America who can't find work? :shrug:

[IrateCitizen]

9. It's not an either/or. Think alternative energy sources.

The simple fact is that making a major committment to pursuing alternative energy sources (wind, solar, etc.) will actually create many more PERMANENT jobs than all the drilling for fossil fuels ever could.

Plus, it is more friendly to the environment. And if you don't think that the environment is in a precarious state right now, I would recommend that you start with the book The Sacred Balance by David Suzuki. Another, easier read that touches on the state of the environment is Affluenza by DeGraff, et.al.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

14. And Kerry is committed to being the President who ends the false choice

between jobs and the environment.

WARREN OLNEY: Senator Kerry.

SENATOR KERRY:I want to change the entire debate and discussion about the environment in this country.

It is about jobs. It’s about health. It's about our legacy as a generation, and it is our national security. And we need to make it clear to the country that the false choice that's been given by this administration is either jobs or the environment, is wrong.

The environment is jobs. And we are going to prove to Americans we can put them to work, and we’re going to do it in a way, Warren, that’s just. 80 percent of all the Hispanics in America live in counties that have bad air. 25 percent of the kids in New York have asthma today.

We need an environmental justice enforcement at the civil rights department of the Justice Department and I intend to guarantee that we restore that.
http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/interestg/lcv062603ta.html


STUDENT: Global warming is pretty much, like, the most important issue for me. We’ve denied it’s a problem for so long that it’s now this huge problem. You said this is one of the reasons you want to be President. What is your record as far as environmental stuff?

JK: I’m happy to share that with you. I have the strongest environmental record of anyone who is running for President. I began my involvement with the environment, it was pretty much against my will, when my mom got me up at four in the morning and dragged me out for a so-called nature walk. She told me to stop and listen, and I did, and I heard things I hadn’t heard and saw things that I hadn’t seen. She began to explain all of that to me, and I’ve never forgotten it, because that connection is what started it.

When I came back from Vietnam, I became involved in Earth Day. This was 1970, and then I was chairman of Earth Day in New England in 1990(sic). We actually painted Storrow Drive biodegradable green, and we had hundreds of booths up and down the Charles River showing people what the technologies of the future could do.

I’ve been chairman of the Oceans Committee in the Senate. I’ve written our fisheries laws, I’ve written our plastics pollution laws, our marine mammal protection laws, our flood insurance laws, our coastal zone management laws. I was in Rio for the Earth Summit in 1990. I was at Buenos Aires, Kyoto, The Hague for the global warming conferences. I’ve helped negotiate with the less developed countries on those issues. I led the fight to stop Newt Gingrich from literally killing the Clean Air Act. I led the fight as a Lieutenant Governor to make acid rain a national issue, and it’s now in the Clean Air Act. I led the fight to stop the drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. I come to this race with a long and passionate record of caring about the environment.

Sometimes in America, the environment becomes a really bad discussion. People like George Bush and his friends will say, “You have a choice. You can have a job, or you can have a clean environment.” Have you ever heard that argument? Jobs or environment, right? It’s a false choice. Cleaning up the environment can be jobs. In Massachusetts, the fastest-growing part of our economy is environmental companies that do clean-up of toxic waste and chemicals, and to consult with companies so they don’t spit out dirty water and the like.

I’m convinced that a good President can help bring the country together in a way that doesn’t lose us jobs, and in a way that helps create a better future, and that’s why I’m running. That’s why I’m here.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/122203A.shtml

[IrateCitizen]

35. This is an issue on which I believe Kerry to be excellent

I have never failed to give him credit for his support for greater fuel efficiency and committment to developing renewable energy sources.

This is one single issue on which I would feel very positive about having him in the WH. It's just that there are so many others with which he gives me a not-so-settled feeling....

[Meldread]

40. And that is why you should worry.

Because if he lead Hoffa to believe that... I believe he lied or lead Hoffa to believe a lie. Hoffa had no reason to lie about Kerry considering the fact that a lie like that would only hurt the guy he just endorsed. He wasn't joking because I watched the interview -- I saw his face -- everyone was laughing at him because he looked like a fool.

The fact is if Kerry lied or mislead Hoffa then Hoffa is going to do his damnest to hold Kerry to whatever Hoffa believed Kerry agreed to.

This is Kerry's MO, folks. He's flip flopped on every issue when it was at his disadvantage. This goes right along with that MO -- a flip flop and Bush is going to use that against Kerry.

Kerry looks even *LESS* creditable than Bush.

[kiahzero]

75. Maybe Hoffa's just not that bright?

Did it ever occur to you that Hoffa didn't actually understand what Kerry was agreeing to?

[Rainbowreflect]

16. That is like saying we shouldn't fight crime.

If we lower crime think of all the jobs that will be lost; police, prison guards, judges, etc. And on top of that all those people who are now imprisoned would be fighting for the jobs that are left.
Destroying the environment is wrong. Saying it will create jobs does not make it right.

[atre]

56. Jobs are more important to me too, but this is about Kerry's character...

...not which of the two apparently contradictory positions he has taken on the same issues he would implement upon becoming President.

[liberalnurse]

70. Isn't this the same talking points of the right?

There are lots of other employment directions Alaska could secure before drilling on sacred land.........


The jobs will be temporary.....The nature reserve will be a permanent loss.........

[Feanorcurufinwe]

76. Bush wants to drill in ANWR, Kerry does not

Anyone who implies otherwise is lying.

[Raven]

6. I read your post and then went to the actual interview.

Very different when you take snippets...sort of like what the Bush folks do. :eyes:

[JI7]

10. notice the "(LAUGHTER)" in the transcript

and the (CROSSTALK). this was while they were joking around as was known to those who saw it. and to those who read the transcript. but some people just see what they want to. and that is what bush does.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[molly]

45. I am really curious about your motivation

for posting "snippets". What movtivates you to demean a man that has the greatest chance of removing the Evil Empire?

[Meldread]

47. My motivations?

It's really quite simple: Kerry doesn't have "the greatest chance of removing the Evil Empire."

Kerry is like a cheap hooker, willing to roll over and be fucked by anyone with a vote to cast. He'll roll over for the left, and then roll over for the middle, and then he'll roll over for the right.

He's flip flopped on the Iraq War, He's flip flopped on the patriot act, he's flip flopped on No Child Left Behind, didn't even bother showing up for the Medicare vote, and this is just another one of his flip flops -- more evidence that Kerry is willing to sell out if it benefits him. He's a cheap whore; you don't want to cast a vote for a cheap whore do you?

[molly]

54. Enlighten me - who is your PERFECT candidate?

and WHY? Compare your perfect candidate's record with Kerry's.

[Meldread]

60. My PERFECT canidate?

I never called my candidate perfect. However, I support Edwards/Dean. You can go back through all my posts in the past if you wish and you will find that my support has been consistent.

[molly]

61. Edwards AND Dean?

Edwards is more like Kerry than Kerry is like Dean or Dean is like Edwards.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

55. Occam's Razor.

Occam's razor is a logical principle attributed to the mediaeval philosopher William of Occam (or Ockham). The principle states that one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed. This principle is often called the principle of parsimony. It underlies all scientific modelling and theory building. It admonishes us to choose from a set of otherwise equivalent models of a given phenomenon the simplest one. In any given model, Occam's razor helps us to "shave off" those concepts, variables or constructs that are not really needed to explain the phenomenon. By doing that, developing the model will become much easier, and there is less chance of introducing inconsistencies, ambiguities and redundancies.
More: http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/OCCAMRAZ.html

[Feanorcurufinwe]

13. A closer look at James Hoffa's character is what you mean.

:eyes:

[Cocoa]

15. think long and hard about something Hoffa said?

judge Kerry by something Hoffa said?

Pay any attention at all to Hoffa?

No thanks, I'll listen to the League of Conservation Voters first.

[Meldread]

27. So are you calling Hoffa a liar?

If you are what motive would he have to lie? I saw the interview live. Hoffa believed Kerrys lies.

While ideologically we and Hoffa are on different ends, that doesn't diminish the fact that Kerry was making promises to him -- promises that not only go against his record but go against the promises he's made to us.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

29. Lying or joking-either way, it is faultly reasoning to judge Kerry by what

Hoffa said.

But it is pretty clear that he was joking.

[Meldread]

34. He wasn't joking I can tell you that for a fact.

I saw the interview. The laughter was coming from the panel, but Hoffa was dead serious.

So if he wasn't joking then he must be lying, but he doesn't have a motive to lie. Especially when a lie like that can and will obviously HURT the guy he just endorsed.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

43. I saw the interview, too -- you are 100% wrong.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cocoa]

50. I don't think Hoffa was joking

I don't think what he says about a candidate is worth thinking too much about, but he wasn't joking in that interview. Tweety was being a clown, and the other clowns were laughing at him.

[Nicholas_J]

17. Kerry hasnt turned around on either NAFTA or WTO

Simply on the changes that the Bush administration has forced on these agreements since it has come into office. NAFTA was one of the driving forces in the enormous growth of the U.S. economy during the 90's if not the primary source. The U.S. control of the high tech market, through the use of manufacturing capacirties in both Canada and Mexico, with distribution and services in the United States created 22 million high paying jobs. Flat out.

Other candidates claim that NAFTA was good for the environment in which they worked during the 90's crating new jobs and indutries.

We can see where unilateral trade agreements have had devastating effects on the U.S. economy, and that is the agreement to give China favored nation status. In fact, there is more danger in unilateral trade agreements becaue it allows for a greater ability to hide abuses in the details of 160 separate trade agreements. In fact, unilateral trade agreements are the one thing that has been holding Europe back from achieving economic superpower status. Europe's status as an economic power with the ability to challenge the U.S. on many fronts has only come to the forefront since they established an umbrella economic agreement subject to regular modification through discourse and observations of the member nations.

Compare the WTO and NAFTA to the United Nations. Without an umbrella organization, all natins would have to have individual treaties of diplomatis status with every nation of the world, resulting in all kinds of chaos, resulting in the kind of breaking of agreements that was common in the Pre World I World. In fact disregard of the charter of the U.N. and setting up ones own coalition of agreeing partners is exactly the means by which George Bush was able to go to war in Iraq and ignore international law by claiming he had an international co-alition. Bought and paid for by the U.S. Taxpayer. Without an oversight body, such situations could easily be created in with unilateral trade agreements. U.S. unilateral trade agreements could easily be made by the U.S. in total disregard of World Standards. THe fact the the United States will not subject itself to international rules is the primary source of problems in the WTO and NAFTA. The U.S. uses its superpower status to either take part in or not take part in the parts of the agreements it does not wish to abide by.

Unilateral agreements will allow far more bad agreements than good agreements, as there is a flip side to every way of doing things. Dennis Kucinich might set up agreements that require certain standards from nation to nation, but if you are going to have unilateral agreements thenyou cannot have an overlaying set of rules that apply to all treaties with all nations. And if you do set up such rules to apply to all unilateral treaties, there is absolutely no reason to set up such unilateral treaties, as you have just established one blanket set of rules that are supposed to apply to every nation that you are going to set up treaties with. It also allows a large group of nations to decide that it is simply not going to have treaties with you, and simply not trade with you. Which is what Europe is hoping for, because their willingness to take part in international group agreements is placing their economy and their currency in a far stronger position that ours.

If you will be satisfied with giving up your car, your televisions, your telephones, relatively cheap internet access, among other things, then go for unilateral trade agreements.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

23. This is the most dishonest form of propagandizing I have seen on DU

There is a link to LISTEN to the program. Kerry has a jobs program on his site. He CLEARLY voted against the energy bill and drilling in ANWR.
It is clear based on reading the script that Hoffa was joking.

This says more about the character of people who would use this crap than it does about Kerry.

[molly]

28. I agree!

makes one wonder about the motivation.

[Meldread]

30. Hoffa is NOT joking. I *SAW* the interview.

I watched the interview from start to finish. Hoffa was dead serious. The laughter was mostly from Matthews and his panel (especially Joe Scarborough). Everyone was laughing *AT* Hoffa, because Hoffa was making a foolish ass of himself. He *believed* what he was saying, and when Matthews said that Kerry would do anything for the Teamsters Endorsement Hoffa just responded with "Oh". It was like hitting him over the head with a lead pipe. A picture is worth a thousand words – his face said it all. It was like telling the little old elderly lady down the street that her life savings is gone, that the nice young man who took it wasn't from the local charity but was a con-artist.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

39. I saw the interview. You are incorrect but are free to propagandize.

This is the most dishonest sour grapes tactic have ever witnessed. Hell at least the charge that Kerry is a member of Skull and Bones is at least FACTUALLY correct.

[Meldread]

51. You obviously didn't see the interview then.

Because every statement I've made in this thread is 100% correct and truthful.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

52. I saw the interview...you are deliberately recontextualizing a joke.

[Meldread]

58. No I am not.

Even this http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=368789&mesg_id=369659&page=">Kerry supporter agrees.

[elsiesummers]

64. I saw the interview. Not a joke but doesn't mean Kerry's changed position

First - I'm an Edward supporter.

Second - I still think Kerry is the greenest candidate. I don't buy that, just because Hoffa said so in that interview, that Kerry's changed his position on drilling in Alaska.

I think the only way Kerry would change his position so drastically would be with an accompanyingly drastic shift on CAFE standards.
And I don't think that would ever happen (though who knows).

Drilling in Alaska is a line in the sand that no Democrat will cross, IMO.

[molly]

66. Bad link - can you fix it so we can see?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

36. Absolutely. "By their fruits, ye shall know them."

[Democat]

77. Some people want to punish Kerry for getting more votes than their guy

It doesn't matter what Kerry really said, as long as they can find a way to try to help Bush win in November.

[seaglass]

33. How deceptive and partisan.

Kerry is for drilling, but not in ANWR. He has an extensive energy and environmental policy - why don't you go look at it.

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/energy/plan.html

Developing Alaska Natural Gas Pipeline. There are 35 trillion cubic feet of known natural gas reserves on the North Slope of Alaska that have no way to get to markets in the lower 48 states. John Kerry believes that we must build the Alaska pipeline to expand natural gas as a resource and provide important jobs for American workers. As President, John Kerry would bring together the States, Native Americans, producers, pipeline companies, Canada and other interested parties to make this a domestic priority, including providing appropriate regulatory streamlining to get this project built.
Encouraging Development in the Gulf of Mexico. John Kerry supports developing natural gas sources in the Gulf of Mexico on areas already open for drilling. He supports temporary incentives that encourage development in this area.
Assuring Natural Gas Can Be Delivered – Safely and Reliably

[Meldread]

37. That isn't what Hoffa implied.

I'm just going by what Hoffa said, and he seemed to believe -- quite enthusiastically in fact -- that Kerry was, to use Hoffa's words, "going to be drilling all over the United States".

I believe Kerry lied to Hoffa, or at the very least lead him to believe a lie, but that speaks volumes for Kerry's character. The ability to lie and manipulate someone for an endorsement, someone that so obviously contradicts not only his voting record, but what he has told the American People.

[seaglass]

41. You believe it with no evidence and that makes your

criticism meaningless to me.

[Meldread]

57. I believe it because logic dictates that I must.

Hoffa would have gained nothing by lying; therefore he has no motive to lie. In addition to that it is consistent with the rest of Kerrys past actions -- he's flip flopped on the Iraq War, he's flip flopped on the Patriot Act, the No Child Left Behind Act, didn't even bother showing up for the Medicare Vote... need I go on? This is just following a rational, logical, consistent pattern from John Kerry -- he's a misleading flip flop. He's just like the young man I talked about, he's a con-artist.

[molly]

65. A "misleading flip flop" would best describe Dean

IMHO.

[RetroLounge]

74. Dean's not in the race anymore

Please, try to focus...

[seaglass]

67. The only fact in your post is Kerry not making the final

Medicare vote - since he was there for the filibuster and the final vote was not impacted by his vote - it makes no difference to me that he wasn't there. And yes - he is my Senator so I do have a vested interest.

The remaining part of your argument is not factual, logic is not a by-product of opinion.

[La_Serpiente]

62. Slinkerwink already brought this up in another thread

and it was locked.

The ATA forum

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=120&topic_id=13559

and the original thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=361286

Dial up beware

[DrFunkenstein]

63. I Think We Got A Closer Look At * Somebody's* Character

And it wasn't Kerry.

Nice try, though.

[Walt Starr]

72. Here is a picture of John Kerry's character

And now, the entire DNC:



So to sum it up, my bumper sticker:

[mmonk]

73. not really a look at his character