Barrack Obama is not courting "Religious Right" Voters

[Perky]

He is courting voters. Some may personally oppose Abortion on Demand, but they also may oppose the War in Iraq, Torture of any kind, and want improvements to Health care.

They may oppose same sex Marriage on religious grounds, but they may also agree that civil unions are fine and your sex life is nobody's business but yours.

They might have concerns about stem cell research, but they also think that the involvement of the government in tight to dies issues are insidious.


They might be pro-gun control; they might be pro-environment they might oppose NAFTA and CAFTA having seen the economic blight they have caused in the textile community.


They may think George Bush is a fool.


They may view politics through a different prism...but if they arrive at the same conclusions....the fact that they are religious is no more or no less important than someone's sexual orientation.

Simply because they are religious does not make them Republican or a member of the religious right.

[jlake]

1. The problem is not courting votes; it is using a self hating homophobe to do it.

[Perky]

3. But there is a difference.

I am not justifying McGlurkin. I am simply saying that simply because someone is religious does not make them a wingnut.

[jlake]

5. Of course not...but Obama was dealing with some wingnuts in this instance.

I guess you do not understand how hurtful and what a slap in the face these actions were to the GLBT community.

[trotsky]

88. No, I think Perky does understand what a slap in the face it was.

The problem is that he thinks it's totally worth it to land these mythical evangelical votes that the Democrats haven't been getting because they haven't been anti-gay enough.

[Solon]

7. True, but saying you know McClosetcase is a homphobic wingnut doesn't mean you think...

all religious folks are like him. Courting religious people is fine, the term is so general they apply to all political varieties of people, from left wing to right wing.

[Capn Sunshine]

8. I still haven't heard Obama reference anything negative about homosexuals

It's one thing if you support Hillary and her "keep it in the closet,and that's an order" crowd. That's your business.

But it's the height of naivete to think we're supposed to believe that supporting Hillary is an answer for gay rights in this country.

Or on the other hand, that pretending these "gay is sin" people don't exist gets you further down the road no matter who you support.

But the transparent cyncial way this one campaign stop is being hoiked around at what is hoped to be advantage Hillary is really just disgusting to observe.

Yet not surprising.

[Solon]

12. Why the fuck are you making this about Hillary, what the fuck is she to GBLT people?

She cares about as much about them as Obama does, in other words, not at all. Also, this isn't about pretending homophobes don't exist, its that we shouldn't coddle them or encourage the homophobia itself. This attempted deflection is fucking atrocious.

[Capn Sunshine]

96. Because certain Hillary partisans are flogging this for their own purposes

and it goes to the heart of this debate. Lots of false outrage. I don't trust any of it. I don't know any GLBT people who have even heard of this guy extant of DU.

No one is deflecting anything. It's not germane to any campaign unless the candidate speaks to the issue.

Even this guy they are quoting isn't homophobic, he just believes homosexuality can be "cured" by spirituality and prayer because it worked for him.

That's a far cry from fear of homosexual power political or otherwise which is how I define homophobia.

I suspect if you are a member of the LGBT community you have either been lied to or allowed to jump to conclusions regarding this issue.

My complaint is with those exploiting this issue for no other reason that to discourage people from voting for Obama.

I hate seeing people get used.

[rinsd]

99. Claiming homosexauls want to kill children isn't homophobia???

Claiming that being gay is something that can be nay should be cured isn't homophobia????

Rev. Donnie Mclurkin once stated that he was at "war" with the LGBT community stating that:

"The gloves are off and if there's going to be a war, there's going to be a war. But it will be a war with a purpose?.I'm not in the mood to play with those who are trying to kill our children."

http://www.nbjcoalition.org/news/nbjc-responds-to-obamadonnie.html

He needs to curb stomp someone to prove his homophobic street cred?

:shrug:

"That's a far cry from fear of homosexual power political or otherwise which is how I define homophobia."

Well I'm sorry. As heterosexuals, WE don't get to define homophobia.

[Solon]

100. If you don't think McClosetcase is a homophobe, you are beyond help...

and share his particular malfunction.

[FredScuttle]

17. I don't support Hillary

and I think what Obama pulled was an atrocity of an insult, not just to LGBT people, but to Democrats like me who value civil rights.

No one is "pretending " homophobes don't exist. How could we when Obama is so eager to provide us with proof at his fundraising concerts? This is not being batted around for political games....Obama paid a direct insult to millions of people and we are going to let him (and his supporters) know about it.

So what the hell does this have to do with Hillary again?

[rinsd]

27. Once again, Obama supporters such as yourself make this about Hillary to people who could care less.

Such response would be fine delivered to a Hillary supporter, but apparently its easier for Obama supporters to just repeat it to ANYONE who had issues with this.

[Touchdown]

42. Why type a 10 letter word when 3 letters suffice?

What is it about "GAY" that just rubs you the wrong way that you have to spend an inordinate amount of finger energy to spell out Homosexual?

Here's 2 reasons why I view as suspect anyone who insists on using the "H" word. It's used by the Religious Right all the time, because they hope to sell that all we're about is the "SEXUAL" part of the word, and it denies that any of us are truly happy, so they refuse to use the word gay.
The Second reason is that it's a clinical term, I am more than my bedroom activities, and I am not a medical term.

[Chovexani]

65. This deserves to be its own post

You articulated exactly what rubs me the wrong way about that term. :yourock:

[yardwork]

107. Abortion on Demand is also a right-wing phrase.

The words used in the OP say everything about the OP's point of view.

[jlake]

102. Did I say anything about Hillary?

I am not pleased with her either. But I was talking about Obama.
Obama claimed to support GLBT rights, but as soon as pandering to bigots was expedient he threw us under the bus.
This is not an Obama Vs Hillary issue....the fact that you interpret it that way shows your shallowness and lack of caring for GLBT rights.

[Dhalgren]

2. This is a phrase that should not be seen on DU:

"Some may personally oppose Abortion on Demand". "Abortion on Demand"? Who uses phrases like that? Oh, yeah, people who oppose women's rights and, evidently, Obama supporters...

[Touchdown]

37. Exactly. I got a chill when I read that.

As is that remark about relegating gay people (what's with the over-use of the "H" word in this thread anyhow?) to second class status as being no less or more valid that sexual orientation itself. WRONG! Being gay is valid. Beliving that gays are wrong is invalid, no matter what excuse you make or God you hide behind.

[trotsky]

52. Perky's letting his bias slip through. n/t

[LostinVA]

121. When has it been hidden?

[trotsky]

123. LOL!

Zing! :thumbsup:

[Dhalgren]

4. If a person is against equal rights for all citizens I pretty much don't

care what else they think. If Obama is just using these bigots to get their vote and he is treating them as dupes, well, I guess it is just politics as usual. But none for me, thanks...

[Perky]

9. My theory is that is was politics

not meant so much to to court religious voters as is twas to court AA pastors and the infrastucure they have to get out the vote in the South Carolina.

Why he had to use McGlurkin specifically we may never know...But I suspect that at the end of the day the poliitcal calculus in SC was such that pulling him off the stage due to the firestorm would have been much more damaging to his candidacy than leaving him on. Perhaps not nationally...but probably that is true in SC.

[FredScuttle]

14. Yeah, because doing the right thing and booting an "ex-gay" clown isn't politically expedient

wasn't Obama supposed to be against "politics as usual"??

on edit: also, if Obama was truly concerned about courting black pastors, why choose an "ex-gay" clown to do it? There are plenty of decent gospel singers (the Winans, Kirk Franklin, Yolanda Adams) around that would appeal to this market....why pick a clown who's fame and notoriety stems from his outlandish and horrific statements on homosexuality.

Is Obama saying that he thinks black ministers (and, by extension, black churchgoers) are bigots and homophobes?

[IndianaJones]

6. Abortion on Demand. Is that on Dish Network? nt.

[FredScuttle]

16. It's a new enterprise in AbortCo of America's service expansion

Abortion Drive-Thru
eAbortion
1-800-ABORTION
Club Abortion

[Solon]

18. does it include service with a smile?

:hide:

[mitchtv]

73. I'll go for the happy ending

:hide:

[Solon]

83. ...

:spray:

[MethuenProgressive]

10. By refusing to dismiss the rabidly homophobic MC and star singer from his Gospel

Fundraising Tour, Obama sent a clear message to the "Religious Right Voters."

[Perky]

11. And that clear message would be?

[Solon]

13. That homophobia is acceptable. n/t

[FredScuttle]

15. Obama: "I would rather stand with an 'ex-gay' clown than the LGBT community...

as well as Democrats everywhere who value equality and civil rights for all"

Obama '08: We Need The Votes....By Any Means Necessary

[Perky]

129. Obama never said that.

but you ininuate he did by the colon and the quotes.

[NMMNG]

19. What is this "abortion on demand"?

Oh yes, that's a RW talking point.

They may oppose same sex Marriage on religious grounds, but they may also agree that civil unions are fine and your sex life is nobody's business but yours.


Is that why the crowd went wild when McClurkin announced that he'd been "cured" of homosexuality by God? They don't think civil unions are fine. They don't think gay people are fine. They think we're curse. They think we're on par with thieves and murderers. As far as they're concerned we need to be "cured" by God. They loathe us.

And that makes them pretty much on par with the Religious Right.

[rinsd]

20. Abortion on demand.? well you're speaking the RR's language

:eyes:

"the fact that they are religious is no more or no less important than someone's sexual orientation."

Except when one's rights are denied because of one's sexual orientation which overrides "religious" concerns. Religious concerns have no business in making state decisions involving the rights of other citizens.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

21. If Obama was courting the hypothetical voters you describe there would be no controversy

The definitive political term for a voter such as you describe is not "religious" it is "Democrat."

Such voters wouldn't need to be drawn into our big tent through hateful "outreach"... they are already the pillars of the party.

Nice straw man, though.

[MGKrebs]

22. I wish I was in a some sex marriage.

Oh wait...

[Solon]

23. Yet another hit and run post, why not respond to the detractors? n/t

[hedgehog]

24. What's there to say to the detractors? The OP was making a point that

I think is the same one Howard dean got criticized for in 2000; we're going to have to get the votes of people we disagree with on some issues if we want to win.

"Howard Dean, the former governor of Vermont, and the man who probably will be the Democratic nominee for the office of President of the United States, made a bold statement recently. He said, "White folks in the South who drive pickup trucks with Confederate flag decals on the back ought to be voting with us, and not , because their kids don't have health insurance either, and their kids need better schools too."


http://www.counterpunch.org/fleming11142003.html

Or, to quote LBJ, it's better to have people in the tent pissing out than outside the tent pissing in.

[Solon]

25. The problem is HOW you appeal to those types of people...

Howard Dean didn't hire a Grand Dragon of the KKK to make a half hour stump speech on the evils of integration to try to appeal to guys who, as he put it "drive pickup trucks with Confederate flag decals on the back".

[hedgehog]

26. But perhaps you give a concert featuring music people like so

the hang around to hear your message.....

[Solon]

28. That concert turned into a hate rally against GBLT people...

I don't see how you can sit there and say that that was OK.

[hedgehog]

29. I haven't seen an article reporting that, just people's claims.

I still haven't seen complete information about the entire series of concerts, just the flame fest over one singer.

[rinsd]

30. Flame fest over one singer....

:eyes:

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/obamas-gospel-concert-tour/

He approached the subject gingerly at first. Then, just when the concert had seemed to reach its pitch and about to end, Mr. McClurkin returned to it with a full-blown plea: “Don’t call me a bigot or anti-gay when I have suffered the same feelings,” he cried.

“God delivered me from homosexuality,” he added. He then told the audience to believe the Bible over the blogs: “God is the only way.” The crowd sang and clapped along in full support.

The political implications of his performance are not clear. The concert-goers we talked with afterward were generally more focused on making allowances for Mr. McClurkin’s past homosexuality than on anything about Mr. Obama.

The Obama campaign had appeared to be caught off guard by the reaction to inviting Mr. McClurkin in the first place, and it may have been surprised tonight by the degree to which the singer focused on himself. The other speakers and singers had avoided referencing the controversy. Even an openly gay minister whom Mr. Obama had invited after the fact to try to appease his gay and lesbian critics spoke so early that few people heard him.

[hedgehog]

32. Sounds to me like Rev. McClurkin grabbed the microphone

without permission at the end of the concert. I did notice that Rev. McCLurkin appeared only at this concert.


Did the crowd support his statement that “God delivered me from homosexuality,” or the more general “God is the only way.” ? Was the enthusiasm even aimed at McClurkin or was it a more general reaction to the entire evening?

Were the concerts free?

How much politicking went on?

What did the other performers say or do?

[rinsd]

34. It was a fundraiser with the performers "singing" Obama's praises.

That was the whole point of the concert series.

The other performers (some of whom also have said unpleasant things about gay people) kept quiet about the controversy.

[Solon]

31. First off, that "one singer" MC'ed the event and was given a half hour to...

say whatever he wanted. He railed against homosexuality and, to thunderous applause, claimed that by the grace of God he was cured. I would define that as a hate rally myself.

[hedgehog]

33. Where does it say he MC'd the event? nt

[FredScuttle]

36. Here....get thee caught up with Rev. McClosetCase

"A Grammy-winning singer whose role in a Barack Obama campaign event riled gay activists served as master of ceremonies promoting the Democratic presidential Sunday night"

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2007-10-29-obama-mcclurkin_N.htm


"His inclusion had drawn public criticism from gay activists who wanted Mr. Obama to cancel his appearance. Mr. Obama did not, but issued a statement a few days ago saying he strongly disagrees with Mr. McClurkin’s views and that he has tried to address what he called the homophobia among some black voters....The whole controversy might have been forgotten in the swell of gospel sound except Mr. McClurkin turned the final half hour of the three-hour concert into a revival meeting about the lightning rod he has become for the Obama campaign....“God delivered me from homosexuality,” he added. He then told the audience to believe the Bible over the blogs: “God is the only way.” The crowd sang and clapped along in full support.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/obamas-gospel-concert-tour/

[Solon]

38. I find it downright disgusting that this poster would argue for this atrocious act while being...

so ignorant about what actually took place.

[hedgehog]

41. I was trying to separate rhetoric from fact. I have seen very little direct information about this

[FredScuttle]

51. That's admirable

although, in the future, you would be wise to read up on the topic before jumping into the fray with posters who know this issue from A-Z.

[jonnyblitz]

43. it seems like we go through this every day with a new clueless

Obama supporter. first they say "hillary did it, too", then they go on about Howard Dean and his comment about rednecks with confederate flags (THEY DID IT, TOO, MOMMY!!), or "how else do we change minds without engaging them in discussion", and FINALLY, "all he did was sing!". they must fax the same script to each other before they post on DU. we have heard all of this AT LEAST once a day EVERY day since the incident occured. :crazy:

[Solon]

61. They aren't new, but they are either perpetually clueless or just like being offensive...

I lean towards offensive, personally, most likely they are homophobes who fear being banned when their mask slips off.

[hedgehog]

39. Mea culpa, USA today does indicate he introduced acts at that concert.

It also quote McClurkin as defining himself as not anti-gay and calling for non-discrimination.


McClurkin's views reflect his experiences. I suspect McClurkin is actually bi-sexual, but that his early experiences associating sex with violence and the teachings of people he respects left him very confused about his own sexuality.

[Solon]

44. Even many racists of today obscure their views by saying they support non-discrimination...

even while calling for the races to separate, shit like that. Doesn't change the fact that they are still racists.

[NMMNG]

40. MC'd and sermonized against gay people

<snip>

But McClurkin, who won a Grammy in 2004 for his gospel music and is also the pastor of an evangelical church in New York, quickly became the star of the night, which was the conclusion of three gospel concerts the campaign held around the state. McClurkin essentially acted as the emcee of the event, introducing the other gospel artists who performed, and then took the stage for the last hour. In between sermonizing, singing, and raving about Obama, McClurkin repeatedly defended himself.

<snip>

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2007/10/29/post_159.html

<snip>

"They accuse me of being anti-gay and a bigot," McClurkin said. "We don't believe in discrimination. We don't believe in hatred, and if you do you are in the wrong place at the wrong time. That's the whole premise of God. That's the whole premise of Christ is love, love, love. But there is a side of Christ that deals in judgment, and all sin is against God."

McClurkin has said that homosexuality is a choice and that he overcame homosexual desires through prayer, comments that drew fire from gay and lesbian activists and caught the Obama campaign, which has been using faith to reach out to African-American voters, off guard.

The Grammy-winning singer said Sunday his words had been "twisted."


"Don't call me a bigot or anti-gay, when I have been touched by the same feelings," McClurkin went on. "When I have suffered with the same feelings. Don't call me a homophobe, when I love everybody … Don't tell me that I stand up and I say vile words against the gay community because I don't. I don't speak against the homosexual. I tell you that God delivered me from homosexuality."


<snip>

Nearly all of the African-American concert-goers interviewed by CNN expressed support for McClurkin. Some referenced the First Amendment, saying McClurkin had the right to say what he pleased. Others agreed with McClurkin and said that homosexuality is a choice. Several more invoked the Bible and said homosexuality is simply wrong.

<snip>

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/10/29/obama-supporter-god-delivered-me-from-homosexuality/




And McClurkin was only one of five blatant homophobes on that stage.



Are you beginning to get our outrage and pain now?

[hedgehog]

47. For me, it comes down to this: which candidate will deliver the

best package for my gay daughter. My answer is Obama. We're in the middle of a process and I see him moving that process ahead.

[Solon]

50. Even when he allows a man who believes your gay daughter is "cursed" a platform to espouse those...

bigoted views? I don't understand how you can take that so lightly.

[NMMNG]

58. Obama delivered us to the wolves

I don't see that as moving forward.

[mtnsnake]

35. Yes & Hillary wasnt courting women the other day at the all girls place.She was just courting voters

like everyone else.

:shrug:

[yardwork]

124. Did she highlight someone who hates men at the event?

[Touchdown]

45. Why do you keep up with this shit anyhow?

You're not going to make most gay people like him, no matter what silly circumlocutions you come up with.

Give it up already.:eyes:

[AtomicKitten]

46. Every candidate is beating the brush for votes.

And the faux outrage versus a perfectly reasonable explanation offered alternately depending on which candidate is being scrutinized is proof-positive that this is true.

[Solon]

49. "Faux Outrage"?!?! What a fucking disgusting thing to say!

:puke:

[FredScuttle]

55. Now, now.....aren't you aware of all the good works the poster has done

for "you people"? :sarcasm:

I mean, she throws that out in every thread like she was the Mother Cabrini of teh Gay.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FredScuttle]

53. "Perfectly reasonable explanation"?

I'm still waiting for one from the Obama campaign for Rev. McClosetCase

[Touchdown]

54. You are not going to make gay people like Obama.

He burnt his bridge with us, and you Obama supporters calling all of us who were truly offended "Hillary supporters" engaging in "Faux Outrage" is driving us even further from him.

Give it up. You're working against him every time you insult us more.

[AtomicKitten]

57. My comment was generic and not pointed at any particular candidate.

"Faux outrage" versus a "perfectly reasonable explanation" is the trend of comments here at DU depending on which (i.e., yours or somebody else's) candidate is being scrutinized.

However, I would never deprive people of getting themselves in a tizzy (as evidenced by the ignore function working its magic) by attributing a free-form interpretation of what I actually said or did not say, as the case may be.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FredScuttle]

66. It most certainly was NOT generic

and you can alert me as many times as you wish....I will always call you when you're dissembling as noxiously as this.

[Name removed]

128. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Drunken Irishman]

70. Wait one second.

When you say he burnt his bridge with us, do you mean the entire gay community? Do you speak for the entire gay community? I don't doubt there are many gay people that will now oppose Obama and I have no problem with that. However, I also know quite a few gay people who actually still support Obama, even after what happened.

So when you say he burnt his bridge with us, you really only mean you, right? Unless you speak for the entire gay community, which I do not believe you do.

[FredScuttle]

71. I'm a straight Democrat

and I was appalled at Obama's craven pandering. And then compounding that by defending his decision in the two weeks since. I can't imagine I'm the only straight Democrat who values civil rights that's disgusted by this.

[Drunken Irishman]

72. I have no problem with that.

But you're not talking for all straight Democrats, are you? Because I still know many Obama supporters who are straight and gay. The bottom line is, I just don't think it's right to speak for an entire community, when that community is so large to begin with.

[FredScuttle]

78. Who cares who speaking for which community?

Obama did significant damage with this McClurkin debacle and it's the supreme arrogance of him and his campaign on display now that they're calculating that they brought in more votes with his pander to bigotry than they lost in the pissed off LGBT community. I daresay any Democrat, straight or gay or lesbian, can defend such a craven pandering to bigotry, ignorance and, yes, racism.

[Drunken Irishman]

80. I care.

I care because it pisses me off when people claim to speak for an entire group, when that isn't the case.

But if Obama has done great damage, he will suffer and lose. I have no problem with that, since I'm not an Obama supporter.

[FredScuttle]

81. Fair enough

I do not speak for you

[Touchdown]

74. Are you gay?

If so, and you still support Obama, I would really LOOOOOVE to hear why.

If not, then how the fuck would you know?

[Drunken Irishman]

76. How the fuck would I know?

Because I see it with my own fucking eyes. But let me guess, you'll just attack that, too, right? I mean it's impossible to think that there are actual gay people out there who still support Obama.

But there are, whether you feel you speak for them or not.

[Touchdown]

86. Oh' I see, you're a literalist. I worded wrong for you.

My, how will I ever earn your forgiveness?:eyes: Look at my other post, which I said basically the same thing, but used the ever so comfortable and protective word "many".

You know what I meant. Stop with the insipid accusations. You're playing Gotcha, in the stupidest way.

As far as you seeing it with your own eyes... Let me get literal now...you talked to EVERY gay OBAMA supporter in your circle AFTER this incident, and they know EVERYTHING about what was said, and not just the releases from the Campaign enough to make an informed decision, as to whether or not he burnt bridges? THEN, you will have your answer as to your original near sure thing speculation. Until then, it's nothing more than a "Saddam attacked us on 9/11" fantasy.

[Drunken Irishman]

91. Actually, I didn't know what you meant.

If I had, this would be a non-issue.

I totally thought you meant all gay people disliked Obama now. That's the whole point of my post.

As for what I've seen, well I never claimed that all gay Obama supporters still support him. In fact, I clearly stated that there were some that decided to stop supporting him. But from what I've seen, and this obviously does not mean much, there are still many gay people who do in fact support Obama. How many actually left because of this flap, I do not know. As for why they support Obama, that's their choice.

[AtomicKitten]

109. Some people presume to speak on behalf of those they should not.

Nobody should be told how to think and then berated if they don't agree. I have the most bellicose raging spewers of intolerance here at DU on ignore, so I can only read your posts in this section. You have put your finger on the absurdity of some of the things people say when they puff themselves up and presume to speak on behalf of others as a threat.

[yardwork]

127. That's a venomous thing to say. It wins zero supporters for Obama.

Obama's campaign should be above supporters like you.

[Name removed]

130. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[William769]

48. Your right he's not courting the "Religious Right"

Just the "Religious Right fundies"!

[trotsky]

60. Perky's core message:

He'll jettison any group if he thinks there are enough mythical "evangelical" votes to make up for them.

[FredScuttle]

62. Just once, I'd like to see a post that says...

WE NEED LGBT VOTES

(Candidate X) is courting voters. LGBT voters. Some may personally oppose bigotry in the name of religion, but many also worship just as fervently as anyone.

They may oppose mixing of Church and State, but they may also agree that faith is an important part of people's lives and should be respected, as long as it isn't directed at discriminating against them.

They might have concerns about prayer in school, but they also think that the government has no right to tell people how to live, whether it's in the bedroom or in the chapel.

They may view politics through a different prism...but if they arrive at the same conclusions....the fact that they are LGBT is no more or no less important than someone's religion.

Simply because they are gay and lesbian does not make them "loony", "San Franciscan" or "non-mainstream". They are Democrats, same as us, and they deserve respect and consideration, not taking them for granted and saying "where else are you going to go?"...because the day may come soon where we'll find out a painful answer to that question.

[Perky]

120. The Democratic Party Needs LGBT VOTES

But is also needs voters who are politically driven by their faith.

The notion that we can't do both without gutting core beliefs is what is bigoted.

[hedgehog]

63. It occurs to me that we're all missing the point. Obama didn't deny

his support of gay rights to attract these evangelical voters. Some of these evangelical voters came out to campaign for Obama despite the fact that they vigorously disagree with him about homosexuality. They are willing to accept his "error" in this area because he's right in so many other areas.

I think if they support Obama on some things, eventually they'll support his stand on gay rights. Is it a perfect situation? No, absolutely not. Is it possible that people will change? I've seen changes in the last 40 years that were fantasies in 1960.

In the end, I trust Obama more than someone who spoke big and settled for Don't Ask, don't tell.

[Solon]

67. The issue here is the lack of respect, indeed the contempt, towards GLBT folks....

as if they aren't even human. Its frankly disgusting.

[FredScuttle]

69. Uh, he did something quite the opposite of "declare his support of gay rights"

He welcomed an "ex-gay" clown to spew homophobic filth to what reports indicate was a enthusiasic crowd receptive to the message. This clown declared "God delivered me from homosexuality!" and it was like red meat to the homophobes in the audience who love Rev. McClosetCase and his declaration that you can pray teh Gay away.

Obama made a very craven and very ugly pander to religious bigots in S.C. to attract votes. He gambled and lost. And now he has to deal with the very bitter aftereffect this leaves for not just the LGBT community, but straight Democrats like me who are equally insulted by a so-called "progressive" Democrat courting bigots.

[trotsky]

77. Would you even be trying to defend this tactic...

if it had been a white supremacist performer?

How about a Holocaust denier?

I don't recall the Democrats embracing and accepting racial bigots in the 60s to try and change things. They *forced* bigots to adapt to the times. People who opposed abortion rights were *forced* to accept them in 1973. Asking them to pretty please consider the possibility they might be a teensy bit wrong in hopes that eventually they'll change doesn't seem to work very well.

[NMMNG]

75. Basically

Because those evangelicals are all that matters.

[trotsky]

79. BINGO! n/t

[LeftyMom]

64. You wouldn't see those issues as marginal if you were female, sick,

or not self-hating.

[Bluebear]

68. "Abortion on demand"?? What religious right meeting did YOU just emerge from?

[trotsky]

82. Just drive on up,

spread those legs, and let us yank that nasty parasitic organism outta your uterus!

That's what we Democrats are all about, right? :rofl:

[Solon]

84. I thought it was like an assembly line now. n/t

[Bluebear]

87. In fact, we are encouraging pregnancy just so we can abort them. On demand!!!

Honest to pete.

[trotsky]

89. Wait, how does this fit in with our sinister plan to give birth control to kids?

I can't keep all our evil commie schemes straight sometimes.

[Bluebear]

90. Or to turn them into homosexuals . . .

We need to brainstorm on this one.

[trotsky]

93. Dang, that kind of cuts down on the abortions too doesn't it?

Sometimes we just out-evil ourselves.

[NMMNG]

94. But we're allegedly giving them all Teh Gay

So what would they need with birth control anyway?

[Chovexani]

108. Available NOW on digital cable!

Abortion...ON DEMAND!

In high-definition.

[Goblinmonger]

85. Whatever gets you through the night, I guess. n/t

[PurityOfEssence]

92. Using religion to get votes is akin to a shakedown

When the local clergy/torpedo comes around and says the big guy wants you to vote this way, it sorta makes ya think.

It takes it all to a far different level.

[CyberPieHole]

95. "ABORTION ON DEMAND"?

You lost me with that rw straw-man. No wonder you support Obama, he panders to the religious right and to bigots. Enjoy.

[Capn Sunshine]

97. Fuck it

it's just a dead horse only existing in blogosphere
I can't say this enough. People can make up their own minds, LGBT or not.

The fallacy foisted upon us here is that the LGBT community votes as a bloc.

That doesn't explain Log Cabin does it. It implies that somewhere there is a list that defines who can be in the LGBT club and who can't. We all know the reality.
If you're truly liberated you wouldn't imply LGBT folks all live together vote together and think as a monolithic entity.

because that in itself is pretty insulting.

[Bluebear]

98. Yeah, 'fuck it, it's just a dead horse.'

Very respectfully put.

[Solon]

101. No, what's insulting here is your entire attitude, in fact, its downright offensive.

:puke:

[FredScuttle]

103. It is myopia to think that this ONLY affects the LGBT community

Yes, this was a direct insult to gays and lesbians....but it was also a slap in the face to Democrats of all stripes who value civil rights. Putting this "ex-gay" clown in a starring role in his fundraiser was the height of arrogance and has put me, formerly an undecided voter, squarely against Obama.

Call me a one-issue voter or someone who's beating an alleged "dead horse" if you must. When I see an allegedly "progressive" Democratic candidate welcoming a bigot with open arms when so many people warned him of the consequences, I either think he's not too bright or he's a craven panderer to bigotry just to get those sweet, sweet primary votes (and, according to the SC polls, he didn't even accomplish that)

[CyberPieHole]

104. NObama/McClurkin homophobic bigotry issue: "Just a Dead Horse"???

What a load of crap!:puke:

You can have NObama. I won't vote for him...and if his supporters keep this up, you might find that even in the UNLIKELY chance, that inexperienced panderer, were to get the nomination, some in the party might just stay home in the GE. Why bother voting for someone who has contempt for civil rights?

[Capn Sunshine]

114. I call bullshit

A lot of folks are just here to stir shit. And every response to my post was more of the same, implying that there's some secret monolithic group called LGBT who all vote and think exactly the same, because , well doncha know, being gay makes you do that. No chance you would appreciate a candidate who is trying to break down barriers, because it's that "gay thing" and you can't appreciate anyone thinking differently from you. It's War I tell you, war!

Load of crap. People are individuals , and the LGBT community is composed of individuals, each with their own opinions, many of them conservatives.some may not vote for Obama , but the continual pandering to fan these flames here is just ridiculous.

Stop pretending you speak for someone else.

[CyberPieHole]

116. bullshit...

and YOU think you speak for anyone but yourself?:eyes:


NObama can kiss my civil rights loving ass.

[FredScuttle]

134. TRANSLATION: Shut up and sing, you fruits!

"You ungrateful queers should be down on your knees, thanking Judy Garland that Providence has blessed you with such a benevolent and enlightened candidate as Senator Obama, Friend of teh Gay. I realize it's just a small minority of rabble-rousers stirring up shit, but Obama Friend of teh Gay will not tolerate any dissent among those who are privileged to benefit from his pity. Obama, Friend of teh Gay commands you to shape up and get in line behind him and nevermind that gospel singer!

oh, and if you complain about Obama, Friend of teh Gay pandering to bigotry, you are the one who is pandering!"

[CyberPieHole]

105. Flamebait...HIT AND RUN...

[yardwork]

106. Abortion on Demand is a right-wing phrase.

Are you sure that you are in the right forum? Progressives don't use the phrase "Abortion on Demand."

[Perky]

110. First of all

I should have put "abortion on Demand" in quotes it was meant to mimic the language of the right. I should have put it in quotes.

Secondly, bigotry is always ugly and yes I think McGlurkin is a bigot, and yes I think he was likely used by the Obama campaign to parlay endorsement among black Clergy who are likely bigots as well..on this issue.

But generally speaking the black Clergy is generally progressive.

I fully recognize the anger for the GLBT community is genuine and no one should seriously dispute that.


But the Democratic party would never have come to power and stayed in the white House almost continually between 1932 and 1968 were it not for a coalition that included bigots. The Dixiecrats--racist as they were--ponied up to the Democratic bar repeatedly because there was great agreement on the New Deal being a Democratic institution and that issue trumped race for both Northerners and Southerners for a half century.

Not saying that coalition was right just pointing out some ugly history to keep in mind. No single issue of equality drove Democratic presidential politics until 1968 and would have held if Wallace had not run a third party campaign. The coalition held sway becuase while there was terrible pain on that issue. the party agreed on so many other fronts. The notion that any single Equal Rights issue should drive this election is an equally perilous path to take.


ANd that still does not get us back to the substance of the OP. Obama is appealing to voters who may or may not be bigots on one issue, but may be progressive on a whole host of other issue.

The point of the OP was to point out that Obama was not courting the "religious right". A fact that no one seems to want to dispute.

[Bluebear]

111. 'I should have put "abortion on Demand" in quotes it was meant to mimic the language of the right.'

Oh my stars you are so full of horse manure. :rofl:

And being you said you are willing to trade the 'atheist types' for evangelical votes, nothing more to talk about.

[Perky]

118. How about dealing with the substance of the post.

or the rest of the OP rathaer than nitpicking.

If that is your only objection and youy think my choice of those threee words trumps everything else in the OP or my clarification, then I suspect you are going to object to anything I ever post.


For crying out load BlueBear I was out for most of the day. the OP was dashed off quickly. That is awfully unforgiving on your part don't you think?

[CyberPieHole]

117. No need to "mimic the language of the right". You're the REAL deal...

"abortion on demand"???:eyes:

[Perky]

119. I am Pro-Choice

and I will match my deep blue pedigree with anyone on DU.

[CyberPieHole]

132. Yet you use terms like "Abortion On Demand"...

Abortion On Demand=Contempt for a woman's right to CHOOSE. I guess you failed to see that the phrase is encoded with a RW message?:shrug:

[Perky]

133. Read it in the context of the post.

I repeatedly juxtaposed RW bogeymen, with progessive sentiments. I should have put quotes around it rather than just captitalizes the "A" and the "D". Whyu not deal with the substance of the post than nitpick and sling around silly accusations? Do you not have a response on the substance?

[trotsky]

122. You just keep digging that hole deeper.

First off, you're confusing this one single issue with Obama's overall campaign.

Let's focus on the concert issue. It wasn't a general election campaign event - Obama is just trying to win the SC primary. Democrats can generally count on the lion's share of black evangelical votes - our nominated candidate will win them regardless. So your arguments regarding a grand Democratic coalition are completely wrong here. Obama was focusing in on a prejudice, and stealthily using it to sway votes to himself instead of other Democrats. He purposely calculated that the gain he'd get in votes from his concert series would more than offset the votes he'd lose from the GLBT community. Can you admit that?

Now back to your "coalition" example. Yeah, the Democrats had lots of racial bigots in their tent up until the 60s. But thankfully in the 60s we kicked them out. We knew our party had no room for racists. Did it cost us votes? You bet your ass. But was it the right thing to do? Absofuckinglutely. Just like the right thing to do TODAY is to turn our backs on the homophobes.

But Obama didn't. He embraced them. For votes. Yup, an end to "politics as usual." CHA! More like a RETURN to them.

[yardwork]

126. This is a point that is often missed. Obama already HAS the black evangelical vote.

Obama didn't need to showcase McClurkin's particularly hate-filled brand of homophobia to establish support in the black community in South Carolina. The fact that he did says something about what he's willing to toss overboard in the name of expediency. It says something about his leadership style. That's the source of the broad disappointment - which transcends the so-called "gay community."

Lots of people are disappointed in Obama for this serious misstep. Those folks include many straight people. They include anyone who's paying attention. If Obama is willing to give the stage to a wretched hate-filled closet case spewing anti-gay rhetoric, who else is he willing to promote? Neo-cons? White supremacists? Torture supporters?

It just raises a lot of questions about Obama, and that is very, very disappointing to a lot of us who thought he was a breath of fresh air.

[yardwork]

125. I don't buy it. You used that term because you believe that term.

Your post told me a lot about your views on a whole lot of things.

[Perky]

131. such as?

[ruggerson]

112. "Your sex life is nobodys business"

tells me all I need to know about your perceptions of gays and lesbians.

[Bluebear]

113. Because being gay is all about sex sex sex sex!

To some bigots, anyhow.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3674657&mesg_id=3691091

[FredScuttle]

135. I thought it was about tasteful closet makeovers and careful self-grooming

or so I see on Bravo. :sarcasm:

[eridani]

115. So, bond with them on tair trade, the environment and health care

Don't egg on bigotry.