I will not fall into line!

[jansu]

Many of the other candidate supporters, want us to fall in and march in lock step with their candidate and with them! (One wonders if it had been the other way, would they have been so quick to "join" the leader). The "If you are not with us, you are against us", "If you do not agree with our position, you are not a Patriot" "We will not tolerate any thoughts that we did not give to you"......This is not a game....this is about my beliefs! I do not agree with any of the positions of the other Candidates, except DK on some things. I do not want to support any candidate who voted for or agrees with PATRIOT ACT I, NAFTA, WTO or WAR with Iraq, or for giving the $87 Billion to keep our troops there (that is what the Constitution says is their power over wars declared by a President. They can and should NOT AUTHORIZE the funding and then the troops would come home), who voted for the Medicare bill, in the Primary. I will work for electing and will vote for the Democratic Nominee.


Our democratic leadership has not stood up for this Country. They lost their backbone! As all of them are falling over themselves stating now, Dean gave it back to us!

Just because the candidate that I believe in, is not campaigning now, but he is still in the race, why can't I still keep my opinions and state them and still try to get some changes made in this country? Are you saying, that one of the other candidates is locked into all of his positions and that he should not listen to the people who are not supporting him, yet? Isn't this about being a President for all of us? Are we to be like the Repubs. who can not have a single thought of their own?

I want this country to change, not just have a change in who sits in the White House!

I will vote for Dean on March 2nd. I will vote for the Nominee come November!

[deutsey]

1. Hear, hear

:thumbsup:

[slinkerwink]

2. great post!

:yourock:

[EXE619K]

3. A vote for Dean....

is a vote for America!

Say NO to the Bi-partisan fiasco!

[Stuckinthebush]

4. As long as you support the nominee in November

I support your stance. But in November, the game changes. It is better to have someone in the White House who will at least let us in the door, than someone who is actively trying to destroy all things progressive.

[lastliberalintexas]

11. Why do you think it will be better to have a Dem?

The Iraq invasion is turning into quicksand for our soldiers and our budget and economic indicators lend credence to the economists' predictions of a coming severe recession or even depression. The magnitude of these events will probably not be felt until sometime in 2005- when you hope that a Dem is sitting in the White House. Who do you think will get the blame for much of those problems, given our historically illiterate and non-critical thinking populace? Shrub will already be a distant memory, and our guy will be crucified.

The 2004 election could be a replay of 1976, with all the baggage carried to the next administration. So we win the battle and lose the war? I'm sorry, but that's not in the best interest of my country or my party.


Yeah, yeah, I know- the Supreme Court. I'm not hoping that the repubs win. I'm just pointing out that there ARE negatives to a Dem win this year, as hard as it is to believe.

[Stuckinthebush]

13. It is far, far better to have a Dem in than Bush

Yes, the Iraq thing is a mess, but it can always be tagged to Bush. It is Bush's War and the Dems will keep that in the minds of the voters no matter who is having to clean up the pieces. A Dem President will re-engage the International Community and work out a deal that will allow our presence to be diminished - the public will like that. The veterans issues will be better dealt with under a Dem so that come 2008, the veterans will look at the Dem and say, "He worked for us." That's a plus.

Not to mention that progressive judges, environmental protection, social programs funding, funding for HIV prevention and research, funding for education, funding for State's infrastructure development, funding for head start, gay marriage amendment death, Medicare strengthening, social security strengthening, economy strengthening, tax increases on the wealthiest to fund needed programs, etc., etc. will all be impacted by having a Dem at the helm.

On the other hand, we have an administration that has made no secret of its intentions of killing all progressive reforms passed in this country over the past 50 years. All of that plus a massive increase in defense spending and entrenchment of a first strike policy.

Other than for a good cerebral exercise, I can fathom no reason to contemplate not voting Dem in November.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

16. Given both of our experiences in labor law

How can you even ask that?

[lastliberalintexas]

18. I certainly think a Dem would be BETTER

But I don't subscribe to the idea that all that must be done is getting our guy to the White House. There are far too many on this board who seem to believe that the one and only goal is to defeat Shrub, when that is merely the first step.

If we don't have the backbone to stand up and fight the onslaught that will occur if a Dem wins this year, we will be just as vulnerable as we were in 1980. I want to see Shrub defeated in 2004, but I don't want our win to be merely temporary- and followed by 8-12 years of repub rule again.

I hope that I am misunderstanding some people, but too many seem to believe that all will be ideal in the world if only Shrub is gone. We can't just sit back and rest on our laurels, if you will. Otherwise, we would STILL be allowing them to control the debate and win the ideological war.


And you are right- I certainly know how important the courts can be. After all, a center left Dem Congress passed the ADA, and it was signed into law by a repub president. Thereafter, the courts emasculated that legislation, despite the clear language of the Act. This is the one issue that made me ABB in the beginning, and it might be the one that draws me back.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

19. Is there an imaginary person claiming that that is ALL that must be done?

Really, I mean this with no disrespect.

There is MUCH to be done but I KNOW that during the 90's when my state's labor rights were under attack, the right was HANDILY passing RIGHT TO WORK laws which are JUST as responsible for quality of life issues as any federal laws are.

People were seduced via television advertising into bankrupting and diluting union powers which generated PARITY in wages...even non union industries had to pay decent wages to compete with UNION houses prior to this time.

What I see are people with an UNREALISTIC expectation that that which DECLINED over 30 years should self-correct instantaneously.

Many of those people were doing NOTHING in the 90's.

I am NOT among that population..


I'm glad everyone is getting on board..but rather than picking up their jacks and complaining that the world will not devote itself to making them happy (ala George Bernard Shaw) they should continue to fight down every available avenue...they didn't get or win the right to claim the WHite House....go for what you CAN win but don't expect it to reverse it's ugly course in a McMinute.

[sadiesworld]

5. "I will vote for the nominee come November!"

Good enough.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

6. No Dean people expected US to march in lockstep with them

Don't fall into line. Do as you wish.

I'm not going to be threatened about my choices anymore by people who will take their jacks and go home if their preferred candidate didn't get the votes.

[w4rma]

29. Not true.

jansu says:
I will vote for Dean on March 2nd. I will vote for the Nominee come November!

[DinahMoeHum]

7. Vote for the eventual Dem nominee. . .but don't stop there.

Get involved in your local political races - Senate, Congress, Governor, state offices, local offices - whatever!!


:kick:

[jansu]

10. This is where I am going to concentrate my efforts!

Start with the school board, mayor, Supervisors, and move on up. We will change this country! Because we have to! We also need to give our President a new House and Senate to work with, or his hands will be tied! So work hard for those also!

[DianeK]

8. you are not alone jansu..

we are a force to be reckoned with...dean holds the 2nd highest number of delegates and it ain't over yet...we will steer everything that happens in this process and those that are quick to jump ship didn't understand what this is all about...it never was about dean, it is about the message and the determination to take back what rightfully belongs to us..to hell with the establishment on all sides...we tried to conduct this revolution within the process. we are still trying to do that but make no mistake, this is a revolution and that is never pretty

[emulatorloo]

9. Good for you! n/t

[MoonAndSun]

12. right on, jansu!!

:thumbsup:

[Old and In the Way]

14. Fair enough.

I, too, want to see a progressive change from within. It's up to all of us to participate in that change.

[einniv]

15. The best thing you can do now is to support Dennis.

To make sure that the issues you care about continue to be talked about.

Dennis will be participating in Sunday's debates. Keeping the dialog going.

Make sure he makes it all the way to the convention with some power behind him.

[jansu]

17. Did you understand this thread?

I believe in the positions that Howard Dean stated! I will not drop my support of this man's positions to support, in this Primary season, any other candidate. Dean has not withdrawn! He is still in the race, just not actively campaigning! He wrote us and requested our vote and he will get mine! My beliefs are strong and for you or any other candidates supporter to think that I am going to just rollover and "join" your man, is not giving me the respect for my beliefs that I would give to you!

Another poster, stated a good point. This is powerful, maybe more powerful, as a protest vote! To make the Nominee know that we are a group of people that you have to account to! We are here, and we are not going to go away! We will vote for the Nominee in November, but that does not mean, that we support you or your past positions.

As Goldie Hawn said in the movie, Protocol: "We will watch you like a hawk!" :evilgrin:

[VelmaD]

20. It is NOT about "falling into line"

I don't care whether you march in lock step with the eventual Democratic nominee. Hell, I'm not gonna march in lock step. What I want you to do is to vote for them. Then once we've got them into the White House we remind them that WE put them there. We hold their feet to the fire on important issues.

[jansu]

21. This was not about the General Election

But, about the Primary which has 75% still to go! I will vote ABB in the GE, I am voting for Dean on March 2nd. I will not be quiet and rollover to one of the other candidates! I will vote my beliefs!

[DrFunkenstein]

22. Universal Health Care? Clean, Renewable Energy? Slash Corporate Welfare?

If you want change in this country, you should do some serious thinking. No one is "forcing" you to vote anything, or to lobotomize yourself, but if you don't like the rightward drift of American politics, you might want to consider a smidgen of pragmatism.

Take a look at how the progressive organization Public Citizen rates Kerry though the years (if you need a zipcode, use 02101):

http://www.citizen.org/congress/voting/

Considering Kerry's long-standing progressive record, you might want to think twice before spiting your face.

PS - Both Kerry and Edwards voted against the $87 billion, and I know that at least Kerry went to filibuster the Medicare bill until a bunch of Dems jumped ship.

[library_max]

23. Fine.

Vote for whoever you want on March 2. You have every right. November is the one that matters anyway. If Dean were the nominee, I'd be happy and proud to vote for him in November.

[DianeK]

24. this is just to kick it up

this deserves futher discussion

[kiahzero]

25. That's all we ask

I will vote for the Nominee come November!
That's not so bad, is it?

[DianeK]

26. yeah, fine...

keep the status quo satisfied...if you can live with it, fine

[kiahzero]

27. Are you that myopic?

Would Kerry or Edwards:

1) Appoint Bill Pryor in a recess appointment?
2) Promote "faith-based initiatives" that are really giveaways to the likes of Pat Robertson?
3) Constantly whine about the "sanctity of marriage" and how it needs to be protected from gays?
4) Push for more and more restrictions on abortion rights?
5) Continue to support the dysfunctional "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy?
6) Give no-bid contracts to Halliburton et al?
7) Out CIA agents working on WMD nonproliferation?
8) Give out tax cut after tax cut to the rich?
9) Talk about giving tax cuts to the poor, and then stiff them?
10) Talk about giving money to AIDS research, and then ignore it?
11) Talk about reducing oil dependance, but cancel research in hybrids which reduce it now, to work on fuel cells which may reduce it later?
12) Denounce Wicca and other Earth-based Religions as "not real religions" and support those who wish to take away the First Amendment rights of our armed forces?
13) Send our armed forces to war because someone tried to kill his father?
14) Spy on the UN to try and influence it's decision?
15) Appoint an Attorney General so noxious that he lost an election to a dead man?
16) Abandon our fight against the terrorist who actually seek to attack us, to indulge in an elective war?
17) Support illegal redistricting plans to disenfranchise voters?
18) Attack our national parks with misleading bills such as the "Healthy Forest" bill?
19) Create agencies to monitor the activities of all Americans, headed by convicted felons?
20) Appoint officials who come up with moronic ideas such as a "Terrorism Futures Market?"

If you think Kerry or Edwards would be no different than Bush, you're blind.

[w4rma]

28. Works for me! Fight locally, also! (n/t)

[tobys]

30. Kucinich is still a viable alternative.

If you support Dean because of the movement that he is a part of, to take our country back, then Kucinich is still an option who is fighting for that same change. The people behind Kucinich are exactly like the people behind Dean: ordinary Americans who are sick of the corruption in our government and want to excercise their democratic right to take their country back from the warmonger corporations and their sycophantic media.

Edwards and Kerry are good Democratic Senators, but they fall far short of the progressive solutions that America needs right now, and not in 2008, and not in 2012.

It is still not too late to put aside our differences and work together for a better future.

Please see my earlier post about this subject:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=367548