A way to make sure Nader Doesnt Run...

[corporatewhore]

Vote Kucinich!!!Worried about appeal to other sides?Kucinich has broad appeal since he is against NAFTAKucinich attracks liberal democrats greens socailists old school conservatives and Libertarians (this is the makeup of my kucinich for president group)

[Carni]

1. Don't insult Kucinich...

Kucinich is sincere Nader isn't...check out who footed the bill for Ralph's run in 2000.

[diamondsoul]

5. No insult there. You may not like Ralph

but he and Dennis are long-time friends.

[mhr]

2. I Agree, Neutralize Nader, Vote Kucinich!

eom

[Endangered Specie]

18. How about Neuter Nader? has a better ring

[messiah]

3. HA HA democrats laugh at the left

Kucinich has no respect in his party.

[LandOLincoln]

4. Dennis has plenty of respect in this party. That doesn't mean we

think he'd be be a good president. Speaking for myself, I want him to go back to the House and keep on fighting the good fight, and perhaps at some point to run for the Senate.

And when you can demonstrate to my satisfaction that the far Left--or at least your version of it--is different in any truly meaningful ways from the far Right, maybe I'll stop laughing at you and your adolescent posturing.

[diamondsoul]

6. Wrong.

Kucinich has LOADS of respect in his Party. It's just unfortunate that more of these "I like him but..." people didn't get together and figure out the only thing keeping him from being electable is their failure to vote for him.

I don't suffer from the propaganda assault so he's got my vote and my total support as a lifelong Democrat.

[NV1962]

17. Don't know whether to laugh or cry at that silliness

Don't paint yourself in a corner: Dennis Kucinich commands lots of respect.

Don't confound "electoral politics" that come out of an elite party leadership with the base Democrats.

And yes, I have great respect too for Dennis Kucinich and his hard work in the US House of Representatives.

[snoochie]

7. Love it!

:toast:

[Cappadonna]

8. Vote Kucinich and get our asses kicked by Smirk

I like DK, but putting him up as the Dme nominee is basically asking for Bush to win. No matter how you slice it, Kucinich is a candidate for the converted. Yeah, he's against NAFTA, but's so Pat KKK Buchannan. He's not going to have the cross over appeal of a Dean or a Kerry. You think Rove's going to give Kerry political raping-- it would look like big wet kiss compared to what he could (and would) do to Kucinich. An honestly, if we're all a bunch of liberal activists types (well most of us) we wouldn't care what he said either.

Its not Kucinich, its the stupidity of the American electorate. If people listen to the guy they would realize he's the only person talking about real defense plan-- working out international squirmishes that don't require us getting blown up or blowing up other people. He's been in the forefront of almost every major battle for the populace in Congress. And as he's proven with his mayoral tenure in Cleveland, he's more than willing to risk it all to protect the weakest.

But, because the American people would call anyone advocating a Department of Peace a limp-wristed punk, Dennis Kunicich will never get the serious consideration for leadership he deserves. Sad, really.

Like Nader, only the most hardcore are going to give the time of day. Its not right or wrong, its just life.

- Cappa

[diamondsoul]

10. I do NOT agree.

I also don't see hwo you can possibly say that when most of the country hasn't even heard the man's name let alone his platforms.

You may defeated, but I'm not. You may be full of fear or hopelessness or whatever it is that makes you think you can know the minds of the entire electorate when most of them don't even know it-

Me, I choose to give them a chance.

[Cappadonna]

20. I've ran for office......and I think you're giving John Q too much credit

Running for local office, where the problems and the cause (i.e. lazy, crooked, and/or outright pathetic politicians) are glaring you in the face people will still vote for the tried and true chump rather than someone talking about change. You will be suprised about how apathetic the average voter truly is. If you don't have the personality or ability to get pass the average joe's political ignorance and overall apathy (which Kucinich does not have), your screwed.

Defeatism has nothing to do with it. The reality is that a good message and sincerity isn't going to get you very far with the average.

Again, this isn't about flaming, its simply stating the ugly truth most Kucinich-supporters and Nader raiders don't want to see.

[WillyBrandt]

9. You insult Kucinich

I sincerely doubt old Denis has much love for the Bush enabler in chief. Don't slap him in the face.

[diamondsoul]

11. What are you talking about??

There was nothing in that post about Kucinich enabling Bush to another term or having any fondness for him.

It was a statement of fact.

[corporatewhore]

12. nader said he wouldnt run if DK got it neither will the

green candidate i know nader and kucinich have both worked with willie too :)

[Tinoire]

22. Unsurprisingly, that statement is totally ungrounded in fact

And yesterday Senator John Kerry's campaign delivered a not-so-subtle statement: "It is important that we remain united in November and rally behind the Democratic nominee, whoever that may be." The Kerry campaign's appeal was just one in another frenzy of calls yesterday for Mr. Nader to sit this one out, prompted by the announcement by a Nader aide that he would reveal his intentions Sunday.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/21/politics/campaign/21NADE.html?pagewanted=print&position=

[kiahzero]

13. Wait a sec

Don't anti-ABBers get upset when candidates are "foisted" upon them?

I'm sorry, but this is far more like the "foisting" of which others have spoke than the primary and caucus wins that constitute the current front-runner being put upon the people by... um... the ... people?

Perhaps this talk of "foisting" is in fact projection?

[Mairead]

16. "Perhaps this talk of "foisting" is in fact projection?"

Nope.

[tedoll78]

14. Is it me..

or is this basically vote extortion? Feels like it.

[Mairead]

15. It's you.

There's a big difference between saying 'if you want something not to happen, here's the way to prevent it' and 'if you don't fall into line and vote for X, you're scum'.

Of course, if you can offer evidence that Kucinich is closer to Bush politically than Kerry and Edwards are, or that he's not offering anything Dems should want, or that Nader can't possibly get any significant number of votes in November, then you'll have a good argument for ignoring Nader. If you can't, though....

[kiahzero]

19. Here's the problem

The people you're appealing to see a Nader run as a bad thing.

The argument the OP made was, "Well, Nader's promised not to run if the majority of Democratic voters support Kucinich. So you should support Kucinich."

That is, in fact, the very definition of extortion, by Nader.

From Dictionary.com
extortion: The act of extorting; the act or practice of wresting anything from a person by force, by threats, or by any undue exercise of power; undue exaction; overcharge

Most Democrats do not want to see any leftists outside of the Democratic party run, since that has the potential to split the vote against Bush. Nader is using this fact, and threatening to run, unless the Democratic primary voters give their votes to Kucinich.

Now then:
Of course, if you can offer evidence that Kucinich is closer to Bush politically than Kerry and Edwards are, or that he's not offering anything Dems should want, or that Nader can't possibly get any significant number of votes in November, then you'll have a good argument for ignoring Nader.

I can certainly make a strong case that Nader can't possibly get enough votes to win. The Democratic Party has the most resources of any left-leaning political party, thereby making the Democratic nominee the most likely left-leaning candidate to win. Not only this, but there is the consideration of the current Democratic Party. The current Party is considered too far to the left by the right, and the outside of acceptable 'leftness' by moderates. The limits of 'acceptable' debate are drawn by the two major parties. A candidate running to the left of the Democratic Party will be seen as "too far left" by those who see politics in the way mentioned above.

Not only this, but this election year, leftists are mostly lined up behind the Democratic Party to oust Bush. It is unlikely that most people will defect to other left-leaning parties. Therefore, the probability of Nader winning this election is extremely lower - I would suggest even lower than the probability of him winning in 2000, which was rather small to begin with.

Does that satisfy?

On Edit: Oh... I forgot. Nader isn't even running as a Green, which means that he won't even have their sparse resources. That lowers his probability even more, since it'll make it difficult to even get on the ballot, let alone win.

[Mairead]

24. "That is, in fact, the very definition of extortion, by Nader."

I'm not sure that works the way you claim. It seems to me that the concept of 'extortion' includes unreasonableness or lack of right. If you really do try to go by the exact definition you quote, then you could say that someone asking to be paid for their work is 'extorting' money by threatening to stop work. Like the worker, Nader is doing something perfectly legal and even nominally desired (a citizen standing for election).

"I can certainly make a strong case that Nader can't possibly get enough votes to win. ... Does that satisfy?"

Then you've no worries, right?

[John_H]

21. Same result, unfortunately.

If I were king, I'd abdicate and make Dennis president, but he just can't win in 2004 America.

[revcarol]

23. Some Greens won't switch. Most WILL for the RIGHT CANDIDATE.

Here in New Mexico we had MASSIVE Green re-registration back to the Democratic Party. County Clerks all over the state were ASTOUNDED.The Green candidate for Governor worked for Kucinich.

WHY did this happen? They wanted to vote for KUCINICH.

KUCINICH is against corporatocracy!! He's FOR diplomacy and negotiation, not just the Democratic brand of hegemony. He's FOR 20% renewable energy by 2010!!He's FOR jobs for Americans, not just using other countries as slave labor for corporations.He's for SANE international trade.

All Green platform items...and should be DEMOCRATIC PARTY platform items.

DEFUSING NADER IS EASY; just vote for Kucinich.

It's no threat. It's a step in a POSITIVE direction.