I wonder if the pollsters are including the ringers Obama is busing in from Illinois...

[SaveElmer]

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/12/03/493315.aspx

WOuld be interesting to know ho that is affecting the polls...

[JoDog]

1. My understanding

is that the Obama campaign is not "busing in" these students. These students are attending Iowa colleges. Students can register to vote in the county where they spend most of their time, i.e. the county where they go to school. In the case of the Iowa caucuses, this means that those students are eligible to take part in the caucuses. To my eyes, these pamplets are no different from those used in other voter registration campaigns--letting potential voters know that they are eligible to vote. Obama is not bringing in or encouraging voters who legally cannot be involved in the Iowa caucuses.

That doesn't mean that the pamplets were necessarily a good idea on the campaign's part, but it is far from voter fraud.

[cali]

2. this is ridiculous.

there's nothing new about college students voting in the caucuses.

[iconocrastic]

29. Nothing new about HRC accusing other people of what she has elevated to an art form

She thinks accusing somebody else of what she does removes the scrutiny from her.

All it does is to prove and highlight her hypocrisy.

[MonkeyFunk]

3. They're not ringers

they're presumably students who are entitled to caucus. There's nothing wrong with telling them that.

[geek tragedy]

5. That's right.

Thanks for being honest in this.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

9. absolutely wrong. they are ringers.

Ringers are anyone who knocks on a door, RINGS a bell, and happens to oppose Hillary. That makes them ringers. Even if they work, live, sleep, eat, study, attend school, buy books and goods, and even rent apartments in Iowa, the mere fact that they don't understand enough to vote for hillary, the only inerrant, inevitable, queen of the ball, then, they can only be called
RINGERS.

[MethuenProgressive]

12. Not 'ringers', just people who "Are Not From Iowa"

Who will probably vote back home in the Illinois primary too.
That's "democracy"?

[Alexander]

18. No, that's illegal.

You get charged with a felony for that.

Especially if you aren't a Republican.

I would appreciate it if you would refrain from accusing candidates of illegal activities when you have absolutely no evidence whatsoever.

[MGKrebs]

20. Is that true?

I'm sure it would be for an actual primary, but Iowa is a caucus. Not sure what the rules are for that.

[karynnj]

24. They are breaking the law if they do so

This is a serious charge. I think there really should be some way that this could be checked - for snowbirds as well as students.

[MGKrebs]

28. I'm not sure that's accurate.

I can find no evidence on the Iowa Dem Party website or anywhere else that this is treated like an actual public "election". The caucus appears to be an internal Dem Party function, and they can make the rules whatever they want, and I see no rules other than must be registered as a Dem (but you can register at the door) and must be 17 years old.

[karynnj]

33. Things were posted for the STATE site

on many threads yesterday.

[MGKrebs]

39. Yup. Still don't see anything preventing pretty much anyone from participating.

Some sources say you are supposed to show some sort of residency proof, but that wouldn't be a problem for a student.

"must be a resident of the precinct where they live".

(whatever that means!)

Who participates in the caucuses?
* Any voter who is a registered Republican or Democrat, and can prove residency in Iowa, can participate in the caucus of their party.
*********
Who Can Participate?
* Participants must be a resident of the precinct where they live and be at least 18 years old as of November 4, 2008.
* You must attend the caucus in order to participate. There is NO absentee voting for the caucuses.
* You must be registered to vote and be registered with the political party of the caucus you are attending. (You can register at the caucus location.)

I suspect this might be more of a problem in, say, Illinois, than in Iowa. If you have already participated in the Iowa caucus and then try to vote in the Illinois primary, that might be a problem depending on how Illinois election code is written. But a "caucus" is not the same as a "primary", so the wording might matter. In any case, from everything I can find it appears that the caucus process is pretty casual and loosely defined (compared to elections).

[MonkeyFunk]

26. Sorry Methuen

you have no evidence of that.

Yes, it's possible. It's also possible for a "snowbirder" from NY to vote in both NY and FL. But there's absolutely no evidence it occurs in any meaningful numbers.

[karynnj]

34. In fact, NY and FL did investigate the snowbird problem

They did find there was some double voting by people who thought they could.

[1corona4u]

14. Yes, but again, here is my question, from another thread, that no one has answered;

if there is a student, going to school in Iowa, but is from Illinois, where is their drivers license from? If it's from Illinois, couldn't they then go home to vote, again, on Feb 5th, in Illinois, thereby having 2 votes? Or, do they have to have an Iowa License? I mean, the only angle I see as unfair, is if they actually get their votes counted twice.

[MGKrebs]

21. It is probably the easiest way to game the system.

In most states you have to register to vote, usually at least 30 days or so before an election. But the states' ability to check with each other is imperfect, so double registering might be possible. Voting in two places however, is a felony. A big risk.

[jefferson_dem]

4. So now students attending college in Iowa are "bused in"?

Disenfranchisement sucks. I thought we could all agree on that.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

10. only those in back of the bus.

those in front are driving for Hillary.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

6. This is just silly.

[TeamJordan23]

7. If you live in Iowa 9 months out of the year; you are allowed to caucus. nm

[MGKrebs]

31. Where does that info come from?

From the Iowa caucus website:

Iowa Democratic Party Precinct Caucus Fact Sheet
Who Can Attend a Precinct Caucus?

* Precinct caucuses are open meetings. Any one can attend and observe, but only registered Democrats (or 17 year olds who will be 18 by 11/4/2008) can participate.
* Young people who will not be 18 by November are encouraged to attend as Youth Attenders. They can not vote at the caucus. They are strictly there to observe.

Who Can Participate?

* All participants must be Democrats registered to vote in the precinct. A list of previous caucus attendees and active Democrats will be available at the caucuses. If you are not on the list, you will be asked to register as a Democrat that night.
* Seventeen-year-olds, who will be 18 by the general election on November 4, 2008, will be allowed to fully participate. If they will be 18 within six months of the caucus date, they will be required to fill out a voter registration card and register as a Democrat.

http://www.iowafirstcaucus.org/faqs.php

That's all it says about participating.

[madfloridian]

8. That was the same thing they did to Dean in Iowa.

Very same accusations. Bet it is the same sources.

DU had a field day then, too.

[karynnj]

25. Unless I misread the post on that

the 2004 charge was that the Dean volunteers would register and vote - not that students attending Iowa universities, who supported Dean would. In one case it is a false accusation of genuinely illegal activity - in this it is attempting to characterize legal activity as illegal.

[Adelante]

11. Nuts nt

[Colobo]

13. Are you scared, Elmer? You sure sound like you are.

[SaveElmer]

15. Why is that your response everytime someone criticizes your guy...

It's a ridiculous comment...and really smacks of whistling past the graveyard...

Obama attacks, he is gonna get hit back...it is really that simple...

I know you would simply prefer it if Obama's lies and prevarications weren't exposed...but that ain't gonna happen!

[Turn CO Blue]

16. First we criticize the college- aged kids for not voting, but then we

criticize them and make it exceedingly difficult for them to actually vote. that's usually a Repub tactic.

These out-of-state students get the run-around whether they try to vote in their home state or in their adopted state where the attend school, buy groceries, pay rent.

These are not ringers, they're CITIZENS whom we should be encouraging to participate in the process.

Anyway, you can just relax. If history is any measure, the young adults ALWAYS SAY they're going to show up, and then they never turn up on the actual day!


------
still undecided.

[Adelante]

17. Straight out of the Republican Playbook

Agreed.

[zulchzulu]

19. Ah, the smell of desperation in the morning...

You have got to be kidding. Er...um... no, you're not...are you...

[TeamJordan23]

22. I guarantee you that Clinton camp will follow; it is just smart strategy. nm

[karynnj]

23. You have just insulted a large percent of Democratic voters

The people that Obama is trying to get out to vote are not ringers, they are students attending college in Iowa, legally allowed to vote per federal law and Iowa election officials. This is an insult to all the college students opting to vote in there college towns and to all of us who did it in the past.

I admit I voted in Bloomington, Indiana in my senior year when I was first eligible to vote. It was legal and made more sense than voting in the town my parents had moved to after I graduated.

[Lerkfish]

27. gee, first thing I saw in your link was:

Apparently, Clinton's campaign in Nevada is using the names of a couple of union members without permission. "The latest twist in an ongoing fight over the backing" of the Nevada SEIU.

[dionysus]

30. oh, you mean the students that are legally allowed to vote there?

what a garbage post.

[Lerkfish]

32. don't be confused

garbage can be sorted into logical piles.

:)

[mtnsnake]

35. %Feliz Navidad%....%Feliz Navidad%....%Feliz Navidad%....%Feliz Navidad%....

%%%I want to wish you a Merry Christmas
I want to wish you a Merry Christmas
I want to wish you a Merry Christmas
From the bottom of my heart%%%

Now I'm gonna run like like hell before you can post back that you know waht song! :evilgrin:

[dionysus]

38. wow, low blow...

i will be contemplating a course of action....:)

[Occam Bandage]

36. I don't have a problem with this at all. Would you, if it were Hillary?

[SoxFan]

37. Or Hillary's bogus NH voters?

Like the dozen or so Clinton campaign staffers who are registered in my precinct?