A few words about Hillary Clinton's perverse idea of "fun"

[calteacherguy]

(edited for copyright purposes-proud patriot Moderator Democratic Underground)

Over the weekend, Hillary Clinton made what could be the biggest mistake of her campaign to date.

At a news conference Sunday in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, a reporter asked Clinton if Barack Obama has a "character problem." Her response, as reported by Pat Healy of the New York Times? "It’s beginning to look a lot like that," she said. "I have said for months that I would much rather be attacking Republicans and attacking problems of our country because ultimately that’s what I want to do as president. But I have been for months on the receiving end of rather consistent attacks – well now the fun part starts.” According to Healy, she "punctuat the word 'fun.'"

Say what? Politicos recognize that "attacking" opponents is a necessary part of the nomination process (even if voters, who typically inveigh against negativity while allowing it to color their perceptions of the candidates, don't always agree). But "fun"? Not so much. Whether a slip of the tongue or a revealing glimpse at Hillary's true colors, expressing joy, rather than resignation, at dissing a fellow Dem gave Obama a priceless opportunity to reinforce the caricature of Clinton as a conniving, calculating pol. "This presidential campaign isn't about attacking people for fun, it's about solving people's problems," Obama said in a statement. "Washington insiders might think throwing mud is fun, but the American people are looking for leadership that can unite this country." Somewhere, Obama staffers are scouring the Web for a clip of Clinton's comment. YouTube awaits.

Coinciding with Obama's recent rise in Iowa polls, the "fun" quote capped the first full week of Clinton on offense against her colleague from Illinois, and underscored why her campaign, despite it's vaunted intensity--or perhaps because of it--might be ill-equipped to beat back an Obama insurgency.

The week started well enough. First came Hillary's health care onslaught--a series of speeches, press releases and conference calls designed to draw attention to the major difference between Clinton's plan (it includes an individual mandate) and Obama's (it doesn't). Reasonable people disagree on which proposal will insure more people in the end. But because Clinton can claim hers is "universal," she comes off (politically, at least) as the bolder wonk.


http://www.blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2007/12/03/hillary_2700_s-idea-of-fun.aspx

[AtomicKitten]

1. Most others call that "fun" gutter politics.

[bunnies]

2. rec'd. A great read. nt

[ronnykmarshall]

Did ya have a smoke after you read it?

Or just cuddled with it?

[bunnies]

13. both.

:hi:

[calteacherguy]

6. The only thing I disagee with

is the writer's contention that Clinton's "policy portfolio" is somehow stronger thann Obama's. I see now evidence of that. As the writer states, reasonable people disagee on which health care plan will cover more people, for example.

The key point is that Clinton has in her actions demonstrated great character flaws...she's proven she has the very flaws she's claimed have been falsely manufactured by the media and other candidates.

She's shown her true colors, and this may be the biggest turning point yet.

[bunnies]

22. I think you might be correct.

Ive made no secret of the fact that Im not her biggest fan. She does however, have some qualities I admire. But regardless of that, I can't understand how being so aggressive can work to her favor. And in many cases it seems like glass house / throwing stones. I think this leaves her more vulnerable than ever.

And I agree with you on the portfolio.

[BootinUp]

3. Sarcasm can be hard for some folks to get. nt

[MADem]

4. Well, thanks for showing us how clever YOU are!!! No "subtle message" from YOU, eh?

I clicked on the link. I note that the ACTUAL headline is:

Hillary's Idea of Fun

You just HAD to gild the lily, though, with the "perverse" word, didn't you?

I'll give the article a miss, now.

Thanks for saving me the time.

[ronnykmarshall]

7. The whole thing is Freudian anyway.

I swear looking at the rash of anti-Hillary threads is like a bunch teenaged boys "banging the bishop" to their first dirty mag.

[calteacherguy]

29. It is perverse, in my opinion.

I make no apologies whatsoever. It's perverse to take pleasure in tearing down others, in my view.

[MADem]

46. Well, you should take your own advice, there--you added a word to change the meaning of the piece.

And you did it to perversely take pleasure in tearing down others.

How very interesting that you missed that point.

[rinsd]

5. And just two months ago you were praising her fighting abilities.

[calteacherguy]

11. I've decided to be an optimist.

And believe in the audacity of hope. Won't you join us? It's a leap of faith, but it's well worth it.

We have a great candidate, and we are going to change the world.

[maddiejoan]

8. dupe

dupe deleted

[maddiejoan]

9. The full "fun" quote.

"Well, now the fun part starts," Hillary Clinton has now said. "We're into the last month, and we're going to start drawing a contrast, because I want every Iowan to have accurate information when they make their decisions."

So if drawing a contrast and providing accurate information is an "attack" then I hope Hillary has a great deal of fun.

[calteacherguy]

12. It's beginning to look like Hillary Clinton has serious character flaws.

Exhibit A:

At a news conference Sunday in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, a reporter asked Clinton if Barack Obama has a "character problem." Her response, as reported by Pat Healy of the New York Times? "It’s beginning to look a lot like that," she said.

I rest my case.

[maddiejoan]

14. If by character flaws

You mean the ability to rip the mask off her opponents in short pithy soundbites --then yes.

[calteacherguy]

17. No, that's not what I mean.

I meann making false accusations, complaining about a Kindergarten essay, making false statements on policy differences, but most of all saying a Democrat who has integrity and honesty has "character flaws."

She's shown she's the own with the lesser character. The people recognized that even before this week as shown in polls of who is the most principled and honest.

I'm cofident she will not be the nominee. We can do so much better than this. So much better.

[maddiejoan]

18. Poor little Boohoobama

If he can't take a snark about a Kindergarten essay, how's he gonna fare against the GOP machine-gun wurlitzer?

[calteacherguy]

21. Your post is representive of the kind of politcs that is turning people off.

I don't want a snarky nominee, and neither do most. The people want change. Real change.

Have a little audacity of hope.

[maddiejoan]

25. Audacity of Hope

Is that a new flavor of kool-aid?

Is it like the Audacity of playing politics by sitting out controversial votes?

[calteacherguy]

27. Take it up with Planned Parenthood.

IL Planned Parenthood President Said Anyone Who Thinks A Present Vote Is A "Duck" Doesn't Understand How the Process Works. "There is a presumption, if one is not familiar with the mechanics of the General Assembly, that a present vote is a 'duck.' Pam Sutherland, the CEO and President of Illinois Planned Parenthood said of Hull argument: 'I think it's not well-based...I think it's somebody who doesn't understand how the legislative process works."

Director of the IL Council Against Handgun Violence Said Criticizing Present Votes Indicates "You Don't Have A Great Understanding Of The Process." "Criticizing Obama on the basis of 'present' votes indicates you don't have a great understanding of the process," said Thom Mannard, director of the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence.

The "Dirt" On Attacks on Obama's Present Votes Is "All Over The Hands of Those Pointing The Finger." "This column has the dirt on the issue of state Sen. Barack Obama's 'present' votes on tough issues in the Illinois Legislature--votes that at least two of his opponents in the March 16 Democratic U.S. Senate primary say mark him as a coward... There's dirt here all right. It's all over the hands of those pointing the finger."

Obama Was Praised for Standing Up on Tough Issues In State Legislature - Because His Senate Seat Was Not Vulnerable, He Used His Position To Help More Vulnerable Senators Do The Right Thing. Zorn wrote, "Obama, however, was in a safe district and never faced a serious challenge for his legislative seat. He had no need to shy from hard-line stands on gun control and abortion rights. He actually took such stands frequently and is now highly praised by advocates for both causes."


OBAMA HAS SHOWN COURAGE ON KEY ISSUES
Obama Passed Illinois State Gift Ban Act "Heralded As the Most Sweeping Good-Government Legislation in Decades." In 1998, Obama passed the Illinois Gift Ban, which prohibited legislators, state officers and employees, and judges from soliciting or receiving gifts from a person or entity with interests affected by government. The Chicago Tribune wrote, "an ethics and campaign finance package heralded as the most sweeping good-government legislation in decades." The law also required greater campaign finance disclosure and limited the uses for which raised money could be spent.

AP: Obama Played A "Key" Role In Passing Death Penalty Overhaul As Well As A Corollary Law To Require Videotaped Interrogations In Capital Cases, "Made A Difference On A Matter Of Life And Death." Obama was the chief co-sponsor and voted for bill creating the Capital Punishment Reform Study Committee Act. Approved nearly unanimously, the bill required the electronic recording of all homicide interrogations, conducts a police officer training program, and provides grants to local law enforcement agencies for the purchase of necessary equipment. The AP reported, "Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama can honestly claim to have made a difference on a matter of life and death. While an Illinois state senator, Obama was key in getting the state's notorious death penalty laws changed, including a requirement that in most cases police interrogations involving capital crimes must be recorded...Enactment of the 2003 law was a huge political achievement in a state that had been deeply divided over problems with capital punishment."

Obama Passed Racial Profiling Ban With A Republican Senator, "Met With Law Enforcement...Once a Month For Three Years" In Order to Pass It. Obama was the chief sponsor and voted for racial profiling bill that required law enforcement to record the race, age, and gender of all drivers they stop for traffic violations, to be analyzed by IDOT for evidence of racial profiling and then sent to the Governor. The bill also incorporated the racial and ethnic sensitivity training for all law enforcement personnel. The Daily Herald reported, "The bill is the product of years of work, says Sen. Kirk Dillard, a Hinsdale Republican. Dillard says he and Obama met with law enforcement representatives once a month for three years to create a policy that wouldn't overburden police officers with paperwork. 'I believe we have a bill that's workable...Law enforcement always has been the obstacle. They don't like it, but they have signed off on it.'" <93rd GA, SB 0030; 4/3/03, 3R P; 58-0-0; P.A. 93-0209, 7/18/03; 93rd GA, HB 0361, 4/3/03, 3R P; 58-0-0; House Total Veto Stands, 11/6/03; Chicago Daily Herald, 5/14/03>

http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/2007/12/03/fact_check_clintons_attack_on.php

[maddiejoan]

30. Now explain his Senate record.

[calteacherguy]

31. Exemplary. nt

[maddiejoan]

32. You know what I meant.

Explain why he has the Senate record for most votes abstained.

[calteacherguy]

34. Does he?

Do you have a link to back that up?

[maddiejoan]

40. sure.

CHICAGO (WBBM) - Senator Barack Obama is giving it his all in a run for the White House, but is he ignoring his “day job”?

An examination of Senator Obama’s voting record in the Senate finds he has the worst voting record in the past two months of the four Democratic senators seeking their party’s nomination for president.

During September and October, Senator Obama missed 71--or nearly 80 percent--of the 89 votes that have taken place in the Senate.

In contrast, the perceived front-runner in the contest for the Democratic nomination for president, Senator Hillary Clinton has missed 57—64 percent--of the 89 votes taken.

Clinton has missed only 17 percent of the 401 votes taken in 2007 while Obama has missed nearly 33 percent, a similar percentage as two other senators running for president, Joseph Biden and Christopher Dodd.

-- snip --

Among votes Obama did miss were the Sense of the Senate resolution on Iran, a resolution condemning those who would publicly criticize General David Petraeus, who is in charge of the Iraq War, and yesterday, a vote to end debate on a measure to provide 26 weeks of leave for family members who need to care for an injured serviceman or woman.

Obama was the only one of the four to miss the Iran resolution vote, a vote on an amendment to redeploy American troops out of Iraq and a vote on a resolution to improve security at United States’ borders.

He also missed a vote on the State Children’s Health Insurance Program (S-CHIP) bill while Senators Clinton and Dodd did vote on it. Biden also missed the vote.

(more at link)

http://www.wbbm780.com/pages/1161304.php ?

[calteacherguy]

41. "In the Past two months."

Who cares? I don't.

All of them missed a vote on the Peru trade agreement today. The NPR debate was more important.

[maddiejoan]

44. 33% THIS year for Obama

that's 17% or 68 votes out of 401 for Clinton missed (The least amount in 2007 of the other candidates)

to 133 votes out of 401 for Obama (the most amount)

[jefferson_dem]

37. Explain hers - -

Does she make you proud? ---> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/10/7/112817/053

[maddiejoan]

39. I agree with about 75% of her record

Considering what else is out there as candidates? yeah I'm fine with her record. I don't need a President that is 100% in agreement with me.

[terrya]

10. If she's the nominee...

It will be a damned good thing that she's not squeamish about attacking her opponents. Because the Republicans sure won't be hesistant to attack the Democrats.

[ronnykmarshall]

15. Just wait ..

If Hillary gets the nomination and just ONCE appears to back away from a fight ...... the same group will say "Oh look, she's weak." ..... "I knew she didn't have the guts" ..... "Oh if only we nominated Edwama".

You can bank on it.

[terrya]

20. Oh, no doubt

It's "damned if she does and damned if she doesn't" around here for some people. This election is going to be ugly...we know how the Republicans can attack. And HRC can fight back. And that makes me feel better about our chances in November.

[msongs]

16. listening to donnie mcclurkin CDs is fun for lots of people Obama wants to vote for him nt

[calteacherguy]

19. You see?

The statement you just posted is exactly the kind of poltics from the other side that is turning people off. It's right up there with attacking a person for something they wrote in Kindergarten.

I could say "keep it up," because I know in the end it will only help the candidates taking the higher road, but I won't. I'd rather all the candidates take the higher road and stop the playground politics.

We can do better. Much better.

[maddiejoan]

23. Yeah --

and Obama calling a playful snark about a kindergarten essay an "attacK" really shows him as a rational man.

He'd have been better off just laughing it off, now he seems like he's wired too tightly.


Can't wait to see how he fares against a real attack.

[calteacherguy]

24. "Playful snark" is an oxymoron.

But let's just wait and see if the voters appreciate you and your candidates' idea of "play."

That will be the real fun begins.

[maddiejoan]

26. The real fun

will be when Hillary accepts the nomination as the Democratic candidate for POTUS.

[calteacherguy]

28. Actually, the most fun will be when our nominee wins the general election.

:toast:

[Bucky]

33. Breaking News: Hillary Clinton uses a common cliche, raising obvious character issues!

Have you really never heard the phrase "Now the fun begins"?

That's a rhetorical question, by the way. I'm sure you've heard the phrase. You're just being an idiot.

[calteacherguy]

35. Hillary said that Obama looked like he had character flaws.

The character flaws are hers, as demonstrated by her own words. She's not having "harmless fun." Hilary is trying to tear down a good and honest man.

The voters will have none of it.

[Bucky]

38. Ah, the old "rubber vs glue" argument. Well played, sir, well played.

I agree with your characterization of Obama. But if he can't handle a little boiler plate criticism from Clinton, he'll get eaten alive by the Republicans in the fall. This is a nothing comment from her. Don't get worked up about it.

[durrrty libby]

42. It is a fact that all substance addicts, past and present have severe character flaws

[calteacherguy]

43. That's the stupidist statement I ever read. nt

[durrrty libby]

36. Perfectly stated.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[MonkeyFunk]

47. LOL!!!!!

[dkf]

45. Makes it looks like Hillary thinks fighting is fun

Who wants to fight all the time?

Its a waste of our time people!

[MonkeyFunk]

48. It means she likes politics

and how the game is played. So do I!