Capn Sunshine
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:08 PM
Original message |
If John Kerry is "electable" why the Nader fear? |
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What's with this fear of Nader running?
Kerry's electable, dammit! Nader is no threat! Kerry is the overwhelming electable candidate , strongest in the history of the party!
Isn't he?
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janx
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:12 PM
Response to Original message |
1. So true, Cap'n. The irony of this situation is not be be believed. |
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Edited on Sun Feb-22-04 04:13 PM by janx
But we saw it coming. I only lament that more people didn't see it as well.
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RUMMYisFROSTED
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
6. At least he'll have someone to blame. |
janx
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #6 |
8. If he tries that, someone will have to give me drugs to |
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keep me from laughing 24 hours a day!
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Walt Starr
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:13 PM
Response to Original message |
mdmc
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
5. Dems laughed at Kucinich as unelectable |
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and then they blame Nader for Gore's 2000 loss, and will blame Nader + the Green candidate for destroying Kerry's 2004 chance.
Democrats, either court the middle, or court the left. The DLC proved that the left is not needed. Agree or disagree, but don't hate CHANGE.
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MoonAndSun
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:15 PM
Response to Original message |
3. I asked this same question in an earlier thread, what are they |
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Edited on Sun Feb-22-04 04:15 PM by MoonAndSun
so afraid of? Kerry is the "electable" one, why does Dean, who was not "electable" have to denounce Nader?
I truly believe that Nader will have no discernable impact on this election, so why are so many posters here freaking out?
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IndianaGreen
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:16 PM
Response to Original message |
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That will rob Nader of his issues!
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mdmc
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
7. Nader chose to announce now, so that Kucinich's support |
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Edited on Sun Feb-22-04 04:20 PM by mdmc
of the Democratic candidate would be overshadowed. My "pure" Green friends hate Sharpton and Kucinich, because they support the Democratic Party instead of "real change". They feel that all Dems SUCK, and that Sharpton and Kucinich are simply in the wrong party.
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LWolf
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Sun Feb-22-04 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
54. That's not my experience. |
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There is a strong group of Greens working for the DK campaign here in so cal. I've met with them, talked with them, and it's true. They don't much like the democratic party, but they like Kucinich and are willing to vote dem for DK.
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nothingshocksmeanymore
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:22 PM
Response to Original message |
9. And if Dean had won the nomination it would be Dean supporters |
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Edited on Sun Feb-22-04 04:23 PM by nothingshocksmeanymo
with their panties in a bunch because Nader was going to do what Nader was going to do.
For the record, I am not afraid of him. He is simply another lying politican like John Kerry, Al Gore, Bill Clinton and Howard Dean.
oops and I almost forgot..George W Bush. The guy that make the word LYING an understatement in every way shape and form.
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MoonAndSun
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
10. Has someone won the nomination yet? I thought the primary |
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process was still ongoing?
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jonnyblitz
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
12. the implication of the originator of this thread is that Kerry |
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is the nominee so NSMA was just following with that premise.
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MoonAndSun
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Sun Feb-22-04 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
33. You're right, sorry for the misunderstanding. |
Walt Starr
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
11. Actually, if Dean were the nominee, Nader wouldn't be running |
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Nader said so weeks and weeks ago.
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nothingshocksmeanymore
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #11 |
13. Nader said Gore would have invaded Iraq and it needs to get worse |
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Edited on Sun Feb-22-04 04:38 PM by nothingshocksmeanymo
to get better.
I should hang my bra on Nader's every word. It certainly won't increase nor decrease the likelihood of my breasts sagging.
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Walt Starr
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #13 |
15. I wasn't the one who claimed Dean supporters |
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would have their panties in a bunch over Nader running if Dean was the nominee.
:shrug:
Nader would not be running if Dean was the nominee. That's a fact.
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nothingshocksmeanymore
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
16. Nader is a fucking liar with a messianic complex. That is a fact. |
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Edited on Sun Feb-22-04 04:40 PM by nothingshocksmeanymo
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Walt Starr
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #16 |
21. Don't get so apoplectic |
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Edited on Sun Feb-22-04 04:44 PM by Walt Starr
Kerry is "electable" so Nader is not an issue.
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NewHampster
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
19. So Nader isn't so dumb after all |
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Thanks Walt.
nader would have stayed out but is being a pain now because he figures Kerry hasn't a chance in hell.
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JHBowden
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
20. Counterfactuals aren't facts. |
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What you're saying amounts to "I trust Ralph Nader and believe what he says."
Nader is running against Kucinich, who Nader earlier claimed he wouldn't run against if Kucinich was the nominee. So stop the lame excuses for the Republicans.
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diamondsoul
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Mon Feb-23-04 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #20 |
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Please explain to me how Nader can be running against Kucinich in a Democratic Primary when Nader is an Independent candidate. By the way, I firmly believe Nader will drop out instantly if Kucinich is named the Nominee.
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Capn Sunshine
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Sun Feb-22-04 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #13 |
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Need any help with that :evilgrin:?
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nothingshocksmeanymore
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Sun Feb-22-04 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #46 |
60. Just doing my part to make your thread more participatory |
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Breasts matter...ask Janet and the Repubs! :D
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dansolo
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
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Because us Dean supporters would have a lot more confidence in our candidate than Kerry supporters do.
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nothingshocksmeanymore
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #25 |
29. Really? Then when the media was assassinating him, why did |
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he not effectively counter it?
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janx
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Sun Feb-22-04 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #29 |
42. Part of the answer to your question lies in this article: |
Capn Sunshine
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Sun Feb-22-04 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
45. You miss the point NSMA. Nader would NOT run |
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If Dean got the nomination. That was his early on declaration.
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dkf
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Mon Feb-23-04 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #9 |
61. Nader said that if Dean was the nominee he wouldn't run. |
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So Dean supporters would not have faced this situation.
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Old and In the Way
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:37 PM
Response to Original message |
14. It's not about Ralph and his candidacy. |
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It's all about the psuedo-Democrats who post support for him here.
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bigtree
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
30. I look forward to that special day when this board is fully focused |
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Edited on Sun Feb-22-04 04:55 PM by bigtree
on our Democratic nominee defeating Bush.
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Padraig18
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:41 PM
Response to Original message |
17. That what they keep telling us. |
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I fail to understand the fear, if that's actually true...
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Democat
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:42 PM
Response to Original message |
18. This is one of the most ridiculous "memes" of the Dean camp |
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Edited on Sun Feb-22-04 04:43 PM by Democat
Here is a funnier question, if Dean was "electable" they why did he lose to Kerry?
Kerry is electable - that means he can win, not that he absolutely will win.
Every vote and every dollar that goes to Nader instead of the Democrat helps Bush get elected.
Nader has no chance to do anything but help Bush.
If you support Nader, you help Bush.
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Padraig18
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #18 |
22. Clue: Nader supporters wouldn't vote Democratic, any way. |
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Sorry, the initial question is perfectly valid.
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killbotfactory
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #18 |
26. Because Kerry got tagged as more "electable" |
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Why? I don't know.
Nader has no chance to do anything. We might as well be freaking out about the libertarian candidate or Vermin Supreme.
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Capn Sunshine
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Sun Feb-22-04 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #26 |
48. OMG NOT VERMIN SUPREME |
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the dem nominee is DOOOMED.
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dkf
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Mon Feb-23-04 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #18 |
63. If Kerry hadn't used some real down dirty tricks in Iowa I don't think he |
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would have won. Do you know all the stuff he did? Bet you don't because you seem to have some respect for the guy.
I told my brother in law about all the stuff Kerry did and he was flabbergasted. In fact his eyes went huge.
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littlejoe
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:46 PM
Response to Original message |
23. Four years ago. Gore was electable. Ring a bell? |
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Or don't you pay attention to history?
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Walt Starr
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Sun Feb-22-04 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #23 |
34. This isn't four years ago |
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Don't hold Dean supporters accountable for the failure of Kerry supporters to calculate in the Nader effect when making claims of electability.
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Capn Sunshine
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Sun Feb-22-04 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #23 |
49. Eight years ago, Dole was electable |
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so in answer to your question, yes, I do.
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library_max
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:48 PM
Response to Original message |
24. This makes so much sense. |
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If out of ten runners we pick the one that's fastest to represent us in the big race, why not then chop his left foot off? He's still the fastest, right?
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creativelcro
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:52 PM
Response to Original message |
27. even the people who are most in denial know... |
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in the back of their delusions, that electability has nothing solid behind it. It's all based on people's mood. Any little bump can shake it.
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IndianaGreen
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:53 PM
Response to Original message |
28. Electability = support for the war in Iraq |
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Electability is a bullshit criteria concocted by Al From and the DLC. In a nutshell, electability meant support for the war in Iraq. Vote for the Iraq war resolution, the DLC said, because by 2004 Iraq will have been long forgotten and the economy will be the only issue on the table.
Some of the Democratic candidates followed the DLC advice for crass political expediency. One exception was Joe Lieberman. Joe wanted Saddam toppled on humanitarian grounds.
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nothingshocksmeanymore
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #28 |
31. Electability= demonstrating you can win your own party's votes |
Walt Starr
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Sun Feb-22-04 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #31 |
35. By that account, Dukakis and McGovern were "Electable" |
nothingshocksmeanymore
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Sun Feb-22-04 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #35 |
37. Dukakis was indeed ineffectual against the smear on him |
IndianaGreen
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Sun Feb-22-04 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #31 |
36. Kerry won't win the antiwar vote! |
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In fact, Kerry is the weakest possible candidate the Democrats could possible nominate.
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JHBowden
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Sun Feb-22-04 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #36 |
38. I guess you're right. |
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Edited on Sun Feb-22-04 05:21 PM by JHBowden
We better start getting used to George Bush, and Jebby in 2008.
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PAMod
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Sun Feb-22-04 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #31 |
39. Actually the truth lies somewhere in between. |
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You can make a candidate attractive by selling his "electability". That is what got us where we apparently are. There wasn't a groundswell for Kerry until people were freaked out by Dean's alleged lack of "electability".
Irony kicks in should we learn that our apparent nominee, who was chosen for his electability, isn't electable at all.
Perhaps the Nader thing just makes us realize the irony sooner.
Nader is a nut, but if he still manages to siphon enough support away from the nominee to cause a second term for Bush, well, we were warned, weren't we? Were we not warned that the left wasn't going to sit idly by while the party is hijacked by the right?
We can all cry in our teacups, but if our nominee loses and Nader is to blame, we were warned, weren't we?
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janx
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Sun Feb-22-04 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #39 |
40. This was certainly a warning: |
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"The way to beat George Bush is not to be like him."--Howard Dean
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IndianaGreen
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Sun Feb-22-04 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #39 |
53. Edwards leads Bush in the CNN national polls |
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and Edwards doesn't have the baggage that Kerry has, such as his vote on NAFTA.
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nothingshocksmeanymore
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Sun Feb-22-04 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #53 |
58. Do you realized you just contradicted yourself in two posts? |
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Edited on Sun Feb-22-04 08:34 PM by nothingshocksmeanymo
IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Sun Feb-22-04 02:19 PM Response to Reply #31 36. Kerry won't win the antiwar vote!
IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Sun Feb-22-04 05:03 PM Response to Reply #39 53. Edwards leads Bush in the CNN national polls
and Edwards doesn't have the baggage that Kerry has, such as his vote on NAFTA.
so much for winning that anti-war vote :eyes:
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Eloriel
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Mon Feb-23-04 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #31 |
64. But in Kerry's case, not without a lot of, um, "help" |
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from his friends in high places. And some skunks on the ground.
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MoonRiver
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Sun Feb-22-04 04:56 PM
Response to Original message |
32. For me it's not fear, but rage and indignation that here he goes again. |
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I know he's not stupid, so I have to assume he likes * in, all passionate spin to the contrary. Bottom line, I want that Puke exposed, cause he's toxic to this entire country. Fortunately, I think he's going to crash and burn long before the first GE debates begin. Can't wait.
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edzontar
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Sun Feb-22-04 05:25 PM
Response to Original message |
41. It is quite funny, actually. I think they are insecure |
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And know that Kerry coild easily blow it anyway.
Nader ups the ante a little bit and so they go crying to mama...
Well I for one have no use for the Nader campaign, but I sure am enjoyin' all this crybabyin' from the electability drones.
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CWebster
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Sun Feb-22-04 07:00 PM
Response to Original message |
43. Ha! Thee big question! |
Piperay
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Sun Feb-22-04 07:03 PM
Response to Original message |
44. Not fear but total disgust |
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that nader even thinks he can have another go at putting the chimp in for another 4 years, he's fucking unbelievable.
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boobooday
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Sun Feb-22-04 07:26 PM
Response to Original message |
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Even with Nader in. A lot of the people who voted for him last time won't this time, and a lot of Democrats who didn't vote last time are going to vote this time. W is going DOWN! http://www.wgoeshome.com
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Capn Sunshine
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Sun Feb-22-04 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #47 |
50. THAT is the attitude we need!! |
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Edited on Sun Feb-22-04 07:35 PM by Capn Sunshine
It only took 50 replies for a dem to step up and say " I'm not afraid of Nader."
The rest of you, work on it , OK?
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shivaji
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Sun Feb-22-04 07:36 PM
Response to Original message |
51. Very good question! Kerry is so damn electable, Nader is no problem maan! |
library_max
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Sun Feb-22-04 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #51 |
52. How dare you complain about me letting the air out of your tires! |
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Edited on Sun Feb-22-04 07:48 PM by library_max
If you'd bought a better car, it would run just fine anyway, so it's your fault, isn't it?
Ah, the "logic" of principled sabotage . . .
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GreenPartyVoter
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Sun Feb-22-04 08:20 PM
Response to Original message |
55. Good point, if your candidates are SO strong |
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why are you guys so scared?
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library_max
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Sun Feb-22-04 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #55 |
56. If the house you built is so sturdy, |
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why do you complain when I go at it with a jackhammer and a blowtorch?
Always remember, it's your fault I'm trying to wreck what you built. Nothing is ever my fault.
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Kinkistyle
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Mon Feb-23-04 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #55 |
67. This argument is a STRAWMAN. |
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Who says Kerry is SO strong that he can withstand anything? The country is divided in half. Bush has almost one half. The other half is more divided, so in order to beat Bush the opponent has to unite as many voters as he can in that half and coax over as many Bush voters as he can. Kerry has a strong chance of doing that and EDGING out a win.
When someone says their candidate is "strong" they are saying they will be able to get a little more than half the votes to win a close election. No one on the left, and I repeat NO ONE really believes that their candidate will sweep thru and take the entire nation by storm with 65% of the vote or something along those lines.
Nader has NO CHANCE of winning, and he will only serve to divide the anti-Bush votes. Thats why we are worried.
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LWolf
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Sun Feb-22-04 08:28 PM
Response to Original message |
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As I have said a few times on other threads, Nader is a non-issue in my book. His biggest role is a mass distractor from the real issues that should be dealt with as part of the democratic primary process.
So choose. Spend your time, energy, and focus in hysteria over the non-issue. Or spend it on real issues.
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Cuban_Liberal
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Sun Feb-22-04 08:32 PM
Response to Original message |
59. You don't suppose that maybe he's NOT, do you? God forbid! |
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Edited on Sun Feb-22-04 08:32 PM by Cuban_Liberal
"The Emperor has no clothes!" :evilgrin:
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Kinkistyle
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Mon Feb-23-04 01:01 AM
Response to Original message |
65. He is "electable" because he is a war hero ergo strong on security. |
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Because of the current environment we are living in, lots of folks now have "national security" as their top priority. Unfortunately many people think Military=Security and thus think Republicans=War=Military so Kerry has a good chance of taking that important advantage away and is therefore "electable". Nevertheless, it will still be a close election and Nader will only serve to hurt Kerry's chances, not Bush's.
For the record, Nader is completely unelectable. And he knows it.
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mitchum
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Mon Feb-23-04 01:01 AM
Response to Original message |
66. You seem to think that only Kerry supporters are disgusted... |
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Edited on Mon Feb-23-04 01:02 AM by mitchum
by Nader's tactics. That's a goddamn lie that a few piss sports have been trumpeting over and over (but you already know that)
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Fri Apr 26th 2024, 10:44 AM
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