why do I keep seeing Dean/Nader combos?

[wellstone_democrat]

Is there something about Nader that appeals to Dean supporters? Frankly, I'm confused by the number of posts today that defend or support Ralph Nader that have some sort of Dean avatar or photo.

It seems to me that the two candidates are not terribly similar.
I'm curious if this is just random luck (viewing odd posts) or if there is some pattern that someone could explain to me.

Thanks
Mr W_D

[Democat]

1. Some Dean supporters want to punish Kerry for getting more votes than Dean

Some (not all, mods, please notice I said "some") Dean supporters want Bush to win because it will punish Kerry for getting more votes than Dean.

[SWPAdem]

2. ***SIGH***

The Repukes get a D minus, the Dems get an D plus and ole Ralphie, he gets an A plus for being a world class ASSHOLE.

[fearnobush]

3. ABBXN

Anybody but Bush, Except Nader.

[Goldberg]

4. Agreed.

Anyone But Bush, Except Nader. How about "ABBER"--Anyone But Bush, Except Ralph?

I may use that in my sig line, if it's ok with you...

[Bad Thoughts]

7. ADAB

How about "Any Democrat Against Bush"?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. That's funny

I'm a Dean supporter and all I've posted is that Nader has NO CHANCE in this election. Everyone I know who voted for him last time are either continuing to vote Green (Nader is not running as a Green this time) or are voting Dem, and the majority are voting Dem.

[Guaranteed]

6. Dean supporters didn't support Kerry because he was voting

with Bush for three years. Now we don't know what to do, because since Dean left we don't have anyone to vote for. Nader's the closest thing we have.

[Goldberg]

13. A Democrat is much better than Nader could ever be.

Kerry has a better chance of winning than ol' Ralphie will ever have. I don't understand how you think Ralphie is better.

If anything, you still have Kucinich. True, he may not become president, but God, he's better than Ralph.

[mitchum]

20. Well, if you support Nader you will be like Tiberius...

with two of your boys going down.
I remember a very silly goose once telling me that my "boy" was "going down" Hahahaha (and I will still be laughing last)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. If You Really Want To Punish Kerry (And All Of Us)

why don't you dispense with the subterfuge and vote for Bush...


At least you'll be honest to yourself


(hugs)


Brian

[LandOLincoln]

36. And Nader is running for the same reason he ran last time:

to throw the election to Bush. He even said as much in an interview with Outside magazine four years ago.

That interview, BTW, is no longer available online. However, I suspect that is about to change, and that the magazine will have it back online very shortly, now that the Bush-enabler has announced his candidacy.

[Kahuna]

8. Like this..

[Timefortruth]

9. It isn't real, Dean supporters are ABB.

This Nader thing is an opportunity to stir things up here without getting caught, so it is bing exploited.

The Dean supporters are ABB as much as anyone.

[JVS]

43. Maybe

[edzontar]

10. Some dean supporters felt really trashed by The Dem party and Kerry

The Osama ads in Iowa are a gaping wound, in particular.

I can also confess that some of us are enjoying the outbreak of panic and hysteria from the Kerry camp in the wake of the Nader anouncement.

To see people who thrashed you for months and got you and your friends driven from this board freaking out and pissing their pants is just too beautiful to behold, even if the longer-term consequences are less than enjoyable.

[slinkerwink]

11. exactly---let them freak out in the short term----it's schaunfrede!

;-)

[Timefortruth]

12. It took me a while to figure it out.

Sometimes I'm a little thick.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

34. You're Not Punishing Kerry By Voting Nader You're Punishing All Of Us

If Chimpy wins Kerry goes back to the Senate and his $500,000,000.00 dowery....


The rest of us will suffer as democracy whithers away..

[mitchum]

26. Well, that's very immature...

and Stereotypes Inc. thanks you for coming through

[emulatorloo]

27. Nobody Trashed You, and Kerry Campaign Denounced OSAMA Ad

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=315016

on edit add link

[King of New Orleans]

30. Another article claims the Osama ad never ran in Iowa

Or if it did, I guess it was played by the media.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/sweet/cst-edt-sweet19.html


Is there some public record that would show conclusively what ads were bought where?

[Alenne]

14. Some Dean posters have always been Nader supporters

Dean is out and Nader is in.

[edzontar]

16. I think we are more reasonable in that we defened his right

To run and hope to convince the progressive electorate not to vote for him.

Somehow I think some the crybaby rhetoric here wil not help us accomplishe this task.

Maybe you should just leave it to us to (and to Dean) to bail your oh-so electable Ham Sandwich out of the fire.

[Alenne]

18. I have no idea what you are talking about

Who is my Ham Sandwich?

There is a lot of crybaby rhetoric coming from all sides. But I have a knack for ignoring whiny babies.

[maxanne]

19. and you know this

how? Because you were such a big Dean supporter that they all confided in you?

Don't make the mistake of confusing the defense of Nader's run with actually supporting Nader. I suppose there are Nader supporters here, but I don't know who they are.

[Alenne]

21. I know this because

I read their posts where they said they were Nader supporters. DU didn't start with the primaries. Most people who supported Nader did not try to hide it.

[maxanne]

24. I think

you are confusing support for Nader's right to run with actual support for Nader.

I've been here since 2001 and I don't seem to know who these mythical Dean Nader supporters are. Or are you suggesting that people who supported Nader in 2000 are now Nader supporters for life?

[Alenne]

29. There is nothing mythical about it

I have been here since 2001 also. There are people on DU who support Nader. I don't think that is a secret. Some people who were supporters of Nader also like Dean. I have seen post from people who said if Dean doesn't win the primary and if Nader runs they are going to vote for Nader.

Is there something wrong with being a Nader supporter?


I haven't suggested anything. My original post is what I meant to say. If you want to read something into it that is not there go right ahead.

[JVS]

44. I, for one, have never supported Nader.

However it is a possibility for the future that I have not yet ruled out.

[mandyky]

15. I defend Nader's right to run

and I support some of his ideas, but I'm voting Dem in Nov. I don't understand why Ralphie has the Dem party in an uproar. As a liberal, I try to keep my mind and ears open. I'm not gonna contribute to the ugliness I see aimed at Nader just to fit in, sorry.

[salin]

17. My take

a lot of residual anger - at other DUers - so some of the posts - are retaliatory taunts to perceived ongoing taunts aimed at them for months. Heck there was even a poster who just admitted to this approach (attacking Dean to avert discussions or attacks on Kerry...)

For months I have felt that this particular forum had a poisonous effect on many posters... that pulled folks into this vicious, self-righteous one-upsmansmith that centered around picking fights with other duers. I personally see the whole Nader thing as a continuation of this dynamic - not to say that all who are posting have these intentions... but instead that the anger/frustration and the residual sense of self-righteousness (that can be detected from corners of each camp... ala... but such and such said x about my candidate so my overthetop statements about that candidate are completely justified...) makes the impulse to continue in this vein hard to resist.

[George_Bonanza]

22. Some people are deluded into thinking Dean is something of a Green

I wonder how a pro-NAFTA, pro-WTO, pro-AIPAC, anti-gay marriage candidate who was loved by big business in his own state would fit in the Green Party. Just because Dean is an angry moderate does not make him a Green. John McCain and Ross Perot were anti-establishment too.

[mitchum]

23. Like Dean, most Dean supporters seem to be loyal Democrats

I wouldn't judge the entire group by a baby's handful of pouting malcontents.

[not systems]

25. I still plan on voting for Dean on March 2. Nader never.

I don't think people should worry about this at all.

Nader will not be big factor this year.

[mzmolly]

28. Actually Dean supporters vary in their opinions on Nader as to Clark

supporters and others. You are seeing what your preconcieved notions tell you to see IMHO.

[killbotfactory]

31. You're delusional?

Where have you been seeing this?

[snippy]

32. Coprophagic freepers wet dreams.

Quite a few coprophagic freepers decptively and mendaciously post here. Some have lots of posts, nearly 1000. They boast of starting Nader/Dean threads. Like Bush himself, they have no honor or integrity.

[ScreamingMeemie]

35. Dean supporter here who would never dream of voting for Nader.

This seems to be another story spinning wildly out of control. :shrug:

[PVnRT]

46. Neither would I

The thing is, Kerry supporters need someone to demonize, and when they see the two or three Dean supporters who are actively supporting Nader, they view that as a chance to keep up their hatred against us. I wonder what's going to happen after the convention - will they actually direct their energy somewhere useful?

[Lexingtonian]

37. A variety of reasons

Quite a few outspoken Dean supporters were Nader people prior to joining in at DU, as I recall.

Both Dean and Nader have the same m.o. They're Left, they're nominally socially liberal but not greatly so, they misunderstand recent American history in the same ways. To them the past 50 years are about a novel demonic, Manichaean, corporatist conspiracy. It's Chomsky, overtly or covertly, as theorem.

To others of us it's more that the corporations- the institution of the Colonial exploitive economic system that made it through the Industrial Age- rationally exploited the opportunities presented by first the Cold War paranoia and war economy ('military-industrial complex'), then the racial/cultural divisions and wide assimilation/integration problems, and then technological change-driven societywide greed-qua-economic-paranoia, to filch themselves undue privileges of wealth and power.

The real Dean/Nader affinity is in the proposed solution- 'revolutionary' change and solutions rather than careful analysis and negotiated, gradualist solutions to the particular great problems we face. Notice, however, that the 'revolutionary' change is much more conservative in practice than most people think- it's disproportionate power transfer to a very white, very socially moderate, de facto moderate Leftist part of the middle class. People who think it's their rightful inheritance, really.

[Cheswick2.0]

39. what you don't know about Dean and Me could fill a book

get a grip, Kerry sucks all on his own and I felt that way before I had any idea who Howard Dean was.

[Lexingtonian]

40. you can't win

Dean and Nader have the wrong solutions and rationales to this moment in American history. Whatever you may imagine about Kerry, he's not stuck in those.

[Cheswick2.0]

41. I can't win? Nader and Dean?

You're lost, you have no idea who Dean is and you have no idea who I am.

[Lexingtonian]

42. make me care

Trust me, I know who Dean is perfectly well and I'm sorry you have some idea that it was some wonderfully upright, realistic, endeavor rather than a lipsticked pig. As for yourself, you have certainly posted enough of yourself that your claim is easy to demolish were I to engage it, but it's against the letter and spirit of the rules- and I prefer that you give me your best argument to deal with.

[Cheswick2.0]

38. next you will asking if we are or ever have been a Dean supporter

and out come the loyalty oaths...........

[RetroLounge]

45. Follwed by the purge, remember?

eom