Non-Kerry DU-ers: Do you ever feel like you're watching a train wreck?

[Padraig18]

With Sen. Kerry's 'electability' being blared 24/7/365 from the electronic media, and all the 'momentum' stuff accompanying it hand-in-hand, do you ever feel like I do, as though you are watching a train approaching a washed out bridge and are screaming "STOP!" at the top of your lungs, but no one can hear your warning because some damned fool keeps tooting the whistle non-stop?

Tell me I'm not alone in this feeling, please...

[Walt Starr]

1. I don't "feel" like I'm watching a train wreck

I know for a FACT I'm watching a train wreck. I knew it as soon as Kerry became the frontrunner, we are doomed to another four years of Bush*.

[JHBowden]

3. Some seem to want Bush.

Kerry is way more liberal than Dean, so I don't get what the problem is.

[cavebat2000]

just because someone is more Liberal

doesn't mean they are better. Can't you see that?

[JHBowden]

14. What are you voting for then? Hairstyles?

:dunce:

[Guaranteed]

21. LEADERSHIP. NT

[JHBowden]

27. That cleared things up.

Bush shows "leadership" on conservative issues. I suppose he's your man.

:dunce:

[Padraig18]

108. That would be a bad suppostion to make.

:)

[Cheswick2.0]

166. more liberal, more conservative ... it's doesn't compute

You define liberal by your issues. To me Dean is not more liberal, but more conservative than I am.

People have to stop arguing over who is more or less liberal and what that even means.

This weekend I was talking to a man who worked with Wellstone. He told me Paul had lots of conservative voters because they were convinced that with him they were voting for someone with conviction and honesty.

"It's the authenticity stupid".

[quaker bill]

54. Oh come on now!

There is no basis in fact to claim Kerry is a liberal in any more than the most marginal sense. Yes, he has a few cheap liberal environmental issue votes on his resume, I will grant you that.

But "progressive internationalism", the cornerstone of his foriegn policy has nothing in common with a liberal point of view on geopolitics. In fact, it summarily dismisses the liberal point of view as "making no meaningful contribution" to the debate.

Kerry is decidedly more liberal than George W. Bush, but then again so was Richard Nixon.

[tameszu]

147. Most people on DU

have no idea what progressive internationalism is.

First of all, it's a lot better than neocon hegemonic dominance.

Second, Kerry, Clark, Dean have all been espousing some form of progressive internationalism. Edwards and Gep are I think halfway in between PI and neocon/American exceptionalism/hegemonic dominance, and Lieberman's policy was much closer to the neocon stuff. Actually, Edwards' and Gep's foriegn policy were pretty much been a muddle. I really have no idea why as a progressive you'd support Edwards over Kerry--Edwards STILL says supports the war, but perplexingly voted the same way Kerry did in supporting IWR and opposing the $87 billion. At least Kerry can sort of sensibly say he changed his mind.

[AntiCoup2K4]

55. Quit repeating that lie, for fucks sake!

Tell me ONE liberal thing that son of a bitch has done since December 12, 2000.

"Yeah, well he's a Vietnam vet who protested the war. He voted against all those weapons systems. He tried to bring down the Bush Criminal Empire (and failed miserably). He's such a great guy, I would gladly lie down in the road in front of a moving bus to save John Kerry's oh so liberal life...."

Fucking spare me! What has he done, SINCE THE OVERTHROW OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL GOVERNMENT IN THIS COUNTRY, to oppose the Bush/PNAC agenda??

Answer - NOTHING. He voted for all of it. If he's a liberal, I'm fucking Karl Marx :grr:

[quaker bill]

62. Well said.

I must be Engles then!!!

[IndianaGreen]

20. Kerry is unelectable

His contradictory voting record, and his endless flip-flops on the issues, will doom his candidacy if he becomes the nominee in Boston.

I am still hopeful that Edwards can save us from this fiasco by derailing the Kerry coronation.

[Padraig18]

24. I hope so, too.

I've decided to support Edwards for strategic reasons.

[Rowsdower]

109. Kerry is all talk

What is going to hurt Kerry the most is that he has been using the slogan "Bring It On" yet when he starts getting attacked, he starts crying that they are being mean to him. He needs to be reminded that he asked for it with that stupid slogan. Edwards would have been wiser with his words. Kerry is a one-way ticket over the cliff. There still time for people to wake up and get behind Edwards.

[Padraig18]

113. Kerry invited this.

I'm just granting his wish.

[funky_bug]

144. Apparantly you haven't read the news?

Um, first, I think Dean was the one that cried "foul." Second, Kerry has challenged each attack from Bush, first with his counter-video in response to Bush's, and today with his letter challenging him to a face to face debate on the attacks he has put out on Kerry's Vietnam experience.

Next?

[wellstone_democrat]

2. Well, I liked Clark so what do I know?

the last ship I signed onto was the SS Al Gore so my track record is dismal in these things.

Does the "media" seem to want Kerry? Yeah, god knows what *there* agenda is on this. But, yeah, I KNOW I'm watching a train wreck.

on edit: fix a sentence to ANSWER the original question!

[scheming daemons]

4. You're not alone...

...Kerry is to 2004 what Bob Dole was to 1996.

And most DU-ers are too shortsighted to see it.


"War Hero" has no meaning in American elections anymore. The last time it mattered was half a century ago. Americans just don't consider that a top priority.

So we'll nominate Herman Munster and watch him get creamed, even as we vote for him in hopes of the improbable.



John Edwards is the only one left who could win enough independents to beat Bush. Kerry will get less than 35% of the Indies....and political junkies know it.

[citizen snips]

31. Kerry is more like the next Dukakis.

Vietnam will do not help Kerry that much Bob Dole proved that. And Edwards is the best candidate to get the independents and also win the south.

[sallyseven]

48. If I see this one more time I will

go berserk. Dukakis was a decent honorable person. He got sand bagged by bush 1 and company. He was never the thief, war monger, obnoxious individual like bush 1 was. If you read any of his speeches and his stand on the issues you would realize that he was far better than bush ever would be in 1,000,000. years. Kerry is a good person and a lot better than you give him credit for. I have read and observed, Dean, Edwards, Kuchinich, and all the others. I choose Kerry and I am proud of it.

[TowelBoy]

85. Most people are better than Bush

But who is more electable than Bush? Heads up: Dukakis had a snowball's chance in hel of winning, and Kerry is headed down the Dukakis road.

[Padraig18]

115. "I'm better than Bush--vote for me!"

That'd make one helluva campaign slogan for sen. Kerry.

[Padraig18]

87. It's pretty obvious that many don't agree.

:)

[Madison Grad]

167. I'll second that

I've been a disillusioned nonvoter for a number of years now. But I'm giving it one more try. Next month I'll be voting for John Edwards.

I'd really like to see a John Edwards - Bill Richardson ticket.

If when November rolls around all we're faced with is the choice of Bonesman (D) vs. Bonesman (R) what would be the point of participating?

[bigtree]

5. Maybe we should get busy reinforcing the bridge. Plenty of track left.

[Padraig18]

12. Not that much time OR track left.

:(

[bigtree]

19. Plenty

Let's get busy!

[Padraig18]

22. We can't do that much damage control.

Too much of a record, with which he (and our party) will be pummelled without mercy.

[bigtree]

51. Still no excuse for standing still

or worse, tearing up the track behind us.

[Padraig18]

57. I'm advocating neither one.

I'm advocating derailing the current ill-fated train by derailing it, and letting one that is sound and capable of carrying us all safely to our destination, with the loss of no one on board.

[bigtree]

59. This train will not be derailed. This train will not be diverted.

This train will arrive at the station on time.

All aboard!

[Padraig18]

64. That remains to be seen...

:evilgrin:

[bigtree]

67. TOOT! TOOT!

:D

[Padraig18]

75. *grin*

Differences of opinions are what make horse races so interesting: of COURSE one horse will win, but WHICH ONE? :D

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

120. Maybe the horse's ass.

[Padraig18]

121. I fear you may be right.

:scared:

[AP]

148. Not worth it, especially when there's a jet airlplane we can jump aboard.

[hippiechick]

6. You're not alone n/t

Tweedle Dee or Tweedle Dum ...

"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss ..."


:hippie:

[revcarol]

7. NO!I feel like the Kerry supporters are AIMING the train at me.

And they are not being subtle about it at all.

Since I support another candidate, I'm so much chopped liver, to be eaten.

[Padraig18]

80. No, you can help stop it, too.

Every delegate YOUR candidate gets is one Sen. Kerry does not, so get out there and work like Hell for your guy! :)

[Township75]

8. hmmmm...maybe....

Kerry inspires me so little that I am happy to see Nader get back in. However, I am not convinced he is going to be a weak candidate or peak to soon.

And if he does train wreck, don't blame me, I didn't vote for him in the primaries.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

9. The only train wreck I watched was Howard Dean

[edzontar]

17. I feel like I am watching one on those Nader-ABB panic threads

Which are almost the only thing on the boards right now.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

23. Thankfully, the engineer of that train managed to derail it all by himself

[Padraig18]

28. Safely, I add.

Rather than killing everyone on board, he put it off the track. At least his EGO didn't make him to take the party down, too.

[DjTj]

58. I hope he parks it in Edwards' station.

Edwards is the little engine that could right now, but the big Dean train could help push us over that hill.

[Padraig18]

90. Yes, we could use some help.

And Dr. Dean's engine is just the help we could use most, atm. :)

[quaker bill]

66. Oh well

Some of us can see the train coming, others apparently have to wait for it to arrive.

[Padraig18]

123. And some fools are still fighting to jump on board!

Pretty sad, bill...

[killbotfactory]

10. Yeah, pretty much.

It sucks.

[Democat]

11. Kerry beat Dean, Clark, and all the others except Edwards so far

That makes him more electable than them, right?

Who do you want, one of the guys who couldn't even get enough Democrats excited to beat Kerry?

Kerry is almost certainly more electable than the people he beat already.

[Padraig18]

18. So did McGovern.

Several candidates running against him would likely have fared better against Nixon. Your point?

[Nicholas_J]

63. Thats the name of the game

What people do in during the nomination process, is what they end up doing in the general election. More states in which Bush was way in the lead when Dean was the fronrunner, now show Kerry defeating Bush in a big way in Novemeber. The places where Kerry has the largest lead on Bush are alose the states that have the greatest number of electoral votes, and in these states Kerry alone appears to be the only democratic candidates who decisively is seen to be the choice of the voters in those states, not just Democrats, but independents and swing republicans. You might think you are waiting for at train wreck, but at least we have a candidate who is actually on the tracks. Dean ran out of steam before the general election even is close.

[Eloriel]

146. But exactly HOW did Kerry beat Dean ?

If you don't know the ReAL answer to that question, you're frankly screwed. Hell, most of you don't even know enough to ask the right question.

[Citizen Kang]

152. ::Raises hand:: Oh! Oh! I know how Kerry did it

I know how Kerry beat Dean. He stole Dean's stump speach, had his minions run gutter ads, bribed Gephardt into a murder-suicide pact and "stayed above the fray". Not to mention all the GREAT press.

Will that strategy work against Bush? No way in hell. I'm sure we'll see some variation of it though.

[edzontar]

13. Especially since Nader came in and drove them all crazy.

nt.

[Padraig18]

30. Yeah. n/t

[JVS]

122. Yeah

Their lack of faith in their candidate is disturbing.

[Birthmark]

15. Kerry will win.

That is all.

[unfrigginreal]

16. It would be fucking hilarious if it weren't so fucking tragic.

You're not alone.

[janx]

26. It's hilarious anyway--even if it may prove to be tragic.

I don't know when I've ever seen anything funnier in politics. And this thread of Pad's is funny.

[Padraig18]

29. Umm, it wasn't meant to be funny.

But if it floats your boat, so much the better! :hi:

[janx]

35. Sorry, Pad. It's just that I've seen this coming for a long

time. Now I shake my head and laugh.

[Padraig18]

38. No blood, no foul.

:hi:

[edzontar]

36. But it is, indisputably, funny. And tragic. All at once.

nt.

[Walt Starr]

46. I have to be honest

IT CRACKS ME UP!!!

[Padraig18]

116. Thanks, Walt!

:hi:

[patricia92243]

25. I'm beginning to think we are bunch of masochist who LIKE to be beat.

[slinkerwink]

32. you're not alone in this, Padriag....

[Padraig18]

41. Let's derail this train, then, while there's still time!

We need not let it leap into oblivion, and take our party with it! What do ya say, cutie? :hug:

[slinkerwink]

107. that's why I'm supporting congressional races for progressive Democrats

and those who supported Dean instead of enabling the bush-lite Democrats.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

33. The "Cassandra Crossing."

Unfortunately, Edwards is

[Shanty Oilish]

53. That's the Gare Montparnasse wreck

Here's a page with background info:

http://danger-ahead.railfan.net/accidents/paris_1895.html

Basically, the brakes failed. The page linked doesn't mention it but I believe the train landed on some unfortunate lady who was minding her absent husband's pushcart.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

117. Interesting. Thanks.

131 on board and the person who dies wasn't even in the train? That's rediculously bad karma.

[sangha]

34. No one minded when Dean's electability and momentum was pushed

Now THAT was a train wreck

[edzontar]

39. I like THIS trainwreck better. Panic in the year zero.

nt.

[sangha]

83. You mean the Dean crash happened last year?

That's funny! And here I thought the Iowa and NH Primary votes were held in 2004.

[Padraig18]

84. Better than in November '04.

Which is what a Kerry nomination portends...

[sangha]

88. Changing your story?

I thought the Dean wreck happened last year. Now you've changed it "at the beginning of the year" without acknowledging your mistake.

There's no shame in admitting an mistake, but you can lose credibility by denying you've made a mistake

[Padraig18]

89. I didn't make the statement.

Look at who posted that comment, sangha. I just COMMENTED on your post.

:)

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

124. Will an admission be made by sangha?

Credibility at stake and all.

[Padraig18]

125. I've heard nothing but crickets chirping, RUMMY.

:shrug:

[Forkboy]

150. The magnetic poles will flip before that happens

[waterman]

37. I agree something's wrong when there is even a doubt that Bush

will get in again. That bothers me more about Americans than anything else. Just the fact that we even have to worry about it. There should be a contender out there who is slaughtering Bush in the polls right now. And we just ain't got one. I still think Bush can lose and I hope he does, but I'd rather have this one cleanly in the bag.

[0rganism]

79. Hello? Are you being sarcastic?

Kerry and Edwards BOTH lead bush in the polls right now, by substantial margins according to some. So we "ain't got one", we got two.

As for having the race "cleanly in the bag", you don't get that with ANY candidate. 30% of the electorate would vote for bush if he was filmed live raping children on the 6-o'clock news, just because he advocates the neo-fascist positions they prefer. Beyond that, there are 10-15% who will be swayed by the "war president" rhetoric and believe the lies about economic benefits of tax cuts they never received. And then there's the $200+ million campaign fund that bush has yet to spend promoting himself and dissing the Democrats. This is going to be a tough election race, no matter who runs.

On the PLUS side, we have about 43% of the electorate saying they definitely want bush out, and that can be increased with a solid campaign. This neatly counteracts the ~43% who love the bush thing. Any candidate has a shot at victory, but none of them are locks.

Kerry isn't the best choice for G.E. electability, but he has a fighting chance. Don't write him, or anyone else, off before the debates.

[waterman]

160. Those substantial margins don't qualify as a slaughter

and could easily evaporate before the election. And yes there have been candidates who have had it cleanly in the bag beforehand. I don't want this to be close. I don't want to doubt the outcome and suffer four more years of this crap.

[Iverson]

40. It's more like a yacht.

Guess which way it's drifting?

[Padraig18]

42. Toward the rocks....

... while the wind mercilessly whips the towering waves, and sends them smashing against them, crushing everything unfortunate enough to be caught there...:(

[spooky3]

45. I wish I could tell you that you're wrong.

But I can't.

However, I am not giving up yet.

[Padraig18]

50. Neither am I, my freind.

Not while there's breath in my body, and delegates enough left to prevent the nomination...

[AntiCoup2K4]

82. I was going to say "to the hard right"

But I like your answer better ;)

[janx]

86. To starboard. n/t

[JVS]

126. Avast ye scurvy dog! Oh wait, that isn't yacht talk. Care for some cognac?

[Padraig18]

127. Will it be served in the drawing room at the Beacon Hill mansion?

:P

[JVS]

128. No, on the yacht.

[Padraig18]

129. Does he only have one?

We must have the butler attend to that oversight at once!

JEEVES!!!!!!!!

[JVS]

130. Luxury sub

www.ussubs.com

[Padraig18]

131. Is that for the Cape Cod home?

Surely he'll need on for the Potomac, as well. :P

[spooky3]

133. LOL! I'm getting seasick.

[Padraig18]

141. Think how ill you'll feel if Kerry becomes the nominee.

A bout of sea-sickness will seem like a walk in the park...

[sandnsea]

43. DU is the trainwreck

Sorry Skinner, but this is just sickening. I'll say it again and again and again. This forum was created because of Gore's loss. This forum has become the very reason Al Gore lost. Complete bullshit directed at decent Democrats like Al Gore by the far left. John Kerry is to the left of Al Gore and he isn't even good enough for the whining, bitching, moaning and groaning left. People who didn't even vote for Gore coming here to trash the Democratic party again.

Well fuck that. We'll kick Bush's ass out without you.

[Padraig18]

52. No, this is what DEMOCRACY looks like.

It looks very different from a coronation...

[sandnsea]

61. No, this is insanity

People who supported Dean because he was against the Patriot Act when he wasn't going to repeal the Patriot Act now support Edwards because he's, what??? For the Patriot Act???

People who supported Dean because he was against the war and Kerry voted for the IWR now support Edwards because he's, what??? Totally FOR the war.

:crazy:

People around here make no damn sense at all.

[Padraig18]

68. Don't over-analyze everything.

The premise of the thread is that many non-Kerry supporters see kerry as a 'train wreck' about to happen, and that it is true can be clearly seen by the MANY responses to that effect herein. A common enemy can also make for a common cause.

[JI7]

71. John Kerry is the enemy ?

[Padraig18]

78. For now, yes.

If one believes a candidate to be the most likely one to lead the party to an electoral disaster in November, then yes, he is the enemy one must first deal with.

[AntiCoup2K4]

154. He's certainly VOTED with the enemy

again and again since his "brother" George Bush Jr illegally assumed office.

[sandnsea]

95. Analyze something

What the fuck do you mean don't over-analyze? This is pretty simple. People have had it in for Kerry for over a year now, you in particular, and there's no sane reason for it. The fact that you've gone for Edwards after ALL the debates YOU and I, personally, have had on the IWR shows the total lack of sane analysis altogether. Apparently, you never had any real moral standing on the war because you've jumped on the Edwards bandwagon just to be anti-Kerry and the only candidate more pro-war than Edwards was Lieberman.

Insanity. It's insanity.

[Padraig18]

100. Actually, it's about my party now.

Kerry is a train wreck waiting to heppen, electorally, and I will put aside my disgust over the IWR to support the candidate I believe will NOT lead us to disaster in November. Deal with it.

[sandnsea]

134. It was idealism

a movement, a family... just 2 months ago. Now it's the Democratic Party. :eyes: Bullshit.

Kerry is the only one who can beat George Bush. Edwards doesn't have a chance. Scratch the surface and there's nothing there. The only way people are going to change horses is if there's someone significantly better prepared to meet the challenges we face right now. That just isn't John Edwards.

[Padraig18]

136. John Kerry is an empty suit!

At least with Edwards, there's a real, live human being inside!

[Citizen Kang]

153. Insanity is...

nominating John Kerry. Some people are just trying to save the Party from itself. Think about it, the same people who brought you the 2002 DEBACLE are about to bring you a god-damn FIASCO in 2004. Some people can see it coming and want to stop it.

[Cuban_Liberal]

161. A functional definition of insanity:

Doing the same thing over and over that has failed every time you have done it previously. As you say, this fiasco is being brought to you by the same folks who orchestrated the 2002 fiasco...

[Walt Starr]

72. Um, maybe you haven't been paying attention to the news

but Edwards is the only significant challenger to Kerry at the moment.

Couple that with the fact that most of us are seeing the Kerry trainwreck in prgress and you should be able to connect the dots. If not, let me know and I'll connect them for you.

[sandnsea]

99. Again, DU is the trainwreck

There's no reason to be against Kerry and there never has been. It's a sickness. It's an obsession. It's NEVER made any sense. It sure as hell doesn't make sense for people I KNOW were vehemently against Kerry because of the IWR to totally go gaga over Edwards now.

[oldmanpeacenik]

132. oh?

And what if I've had it with them both? I mean, the Patriot Act came up right after 9/11, maybe I could forgive them that. But the Iraq war? Kerry was running around expressing doubts and then voted for it. What the hell's that about?

Looks like we'll be stuck with a pro-war Republican or a pro-war Dem. Oh well.

[sandnsea]

135. Spinning it out there

Big old crock of sour grapes. That's all it is.

[KC21304]

106. The dots are telling me that Kerry is ahead of Edwards

in delegates, has beat him already in the south, his head to head with Bush is better than Edwards, they have the same record on Patriot Act, and Edwards was more hawkish on Iraq war.

But if you people say Kerry is heading for a train wreck, I'm glad you do not work for the railroad in my area.

[Padraig18]

110. For now he's ahead.

but he's not the nominee, and it doesn't look like he'll claim his 2161st delegate any time soon. :hi:

[donco6]

44. Jeez, what a bunch of sore losers.

Sour grapes, anyone? There's a lovely bunch in this thread.

[Padraig18]

81. I wasn't aware that JFK was the nominee yet.

25% of the battles are over, but 75% remain, so the WAR is still on, my friend.

[Nicholas_J]

91. On super tuesday

60 percent will be over. Half of all of the non-transferable delegates will be awarded in less than two weeks, Kerry has a significant lead in all of those states and Edwards is ignoring seven of them, most significantly California where Kerry's lead is enormous. In order to focus on New York, where Kerry is enormously popular, more than in the NYC area, in what would be considered a natural environment for Edwards, Upstate New York. Then Georgia and Ohio. All bad moves oddly enough, As Kucinich will do better in his own state than he has elsewhere. On super tuesday, the nomination will process will be all bit over, the following states mere formalities. And I do not think Edwards will suddenly move up forn to take 60 percent of the super tuesday states and which will be what it takes to start running even with Kerry.

[Padraig18]

93. And even if he wins every delegate...

.. he STILL won't be the nominee...

[dawn]

158. Edwards is NOT ignoring California.

He will be out here quite a bit next week.

Actually, some people have complained that Kerry hasn't been paying much attention to (Southern) California.

No offense, I like Kerry, but it's just an observation.

[AntiCoup2K4]

97. JFK hasn't been the nominee since 1960

Please don't aid them in their blasphemy of a good man's name :)

[Padraig18]

102. OK.

I was trying to type a fast response. :P

[Donna Zen]

47. Watching the world have a train wreck...oh yeah

I have no dog in this race.

The electonic propaganda machine is currently calling for Edwards at the moment. Don't worry, they are just crouched and waiting for Mr. Dynasty to appear and save their corporate millions. It is dubya's free media not his millions that they are counting on. Same as it ever was.

Anyway, I came this post while cleaning my files--yikes, I really am bored and watching the train wreck--and thought I might share it with you. It is the preface to a very long post with no name that I thought important at the time and still do:

Why I’m even voting, while I can.

There has been much heat and a little light, within this forum, in our nation, and in our world. In my opinion, today’s “issues” (as defined by others often for their own convenience) are less about war, peace, left, right, crime, regulation, stock markets, jobs, or terrorism than about democracy itself. We live at a time when our founding first principles are under assault, and we are on the front line whether we yet realize this or not. It is not terrorists engaging in this assault; it is the force of our own fears, ignorance, and mutual animosities that threaten us, and threaten our democratic principles as a nation.

[AntiCoup2K4]

49. If only it were just a train wreck...

..instead of the destruction of this party and this country, coming from those who pretend to be Democrats, supported by those who refuse to open their eyes and see how they are being LIED to.

[quaker bill]

56. Simply stated

Yes, it is very much like a train wreck in progress.

[OKNancy]

60. No, only when I thought Dean might be the nominee

Fortunately voters wised up.

[Donna Zen]

77. Just for you OKNancy

More from the same file:

“As most of the evils which have taken place in private life, and among individuals, have been occasioned by the desire of private interest overcoming the public affections, so most of the evils which have taken place among bodies of men have been occasioned by the desire of their own interest overcoming the principle of universal benevolence and leading them to attack one another's territories, to encroach on one another's rights, and to endeavour to build their own advancement on the degradation of all within the reach of their power.” — Richard Price, A Discourse on the Love of our Country (1789) http://www.constitution.org/price/price_8.htm

The inherent virtues and vices of a democratic system of governance are neither more nor less than the virtues and vices of the People themselves. (The same cannot be said of any other principle of governance, in any respect.) This was articulated far more completely and deeply than I could ever repeat by Hamilton, Madison, and Jay, and by Jefferson, Paine, and others. From them, we inherited a precariously balanced system of governance that sought to inhibit both a tyranny of the majority and a tyranny of any minority; that sought to protect the rights and liberties of all, while placing that very protection under our own authority where it rightfully belongs in justice and equity. Who can more rightfully claim the fruits, whether sweet or sour, of their political labors than the People themselves?

[Alenne]

65. I guess you know a train wreck

Dean's electability and momentum was blared on DU 24/7 and look what happened to him.

[Padraig18]

69. Oh, well.

If at first you don't succeed...

[Nashyra]

70. Wish Clark would have gotten in earlier

so he could have run in Iowa.

[Padraig18]

73. Me, too.

I wish he'd waited to drop out, too. He WAS my second choice.

[CWebster]

74. Sounds about right to me:

Railroaded.

[eileen_d]

76. The train wreck's in GD2004

as far as I can tell.

[Anwen]

92. You are definitely not alone, Padraig.

Good analogy. That's exactly how I feel -- like I am watching what is going to be a devastating train wreck and I am helpless to stop it.

[Padraig18]

94. You're not helpless, Anwen

To the battlements! There IS still time to stop this, but the time grows short...

[mitchum]

96. "Round up the usual suspects"

Oh...I see that you have

[Padraig18]

103. Yep.

The usual 50+% of Democrats who have chosen NOT to support Sen. Kerry in the primaries. People tend to forget that fact...

[Tweed]

98. Not at all, now if Edwards was winning, THAT would be a traink wreck

Edwards would just get mauled in a GE against *

[Padraig18]

104. Differences of opinion are what makes horse races interesting, eh?

We shall see what we shall see...

[Piperay]

101. Well someone is voting for

Kerry, else he wouldn't be the one who is getting all the delegates. :shrug: I'm disappointed that it wasn't Clark, he's the one who had the best chance but I am not willing to give up and let the train run over me.

[Padraig18]

105. Fewer than 1/2 the voters are voting for Kerry.

We shouldn't overlook that fact, in some headlong rush toward a coronation, IMO.

[Hav]

111. huh???

What kind of logic is that??
Does it mean that 80% voted against Dean or 60% against Edwards?
People just have their preferred candidate.
Was the same bull when peeps said that more than 50% are against Dean when he was the frontrunner.

[Padraig18]

112. "Huh?" back at you.

It was a simple, declarative English statement.

[mitchum]

118. Like a drunk with a bottle or a hungry man with a potato...

some won't let go of that "argument" Obsessive.

[katieforeman]

114. I agree, but we can't give up.

The pundits have been wrong every step of the way during this primary, and they are wrong about Kerry's inevitability.

[Padraig18]

119. I'm not about to give up!

Until Kerry has a death grip on his 2161st delegate, NOTHING is 'over', as far as I'm concerned! :)

[citizen snips]

140. It is nice to see...

that you have become a diehard Edwards supporter Padraig18!

[Capn Sunshine]

137. Oh yes, in slo-mo and technicolor

:nuke:

[Padraig18]

138. Sad, eh?

:puke:

[Zomby Woof]

139. already watched one

The crash of the 'Howard Dean'. All hands lost. Or primaries lost, I mean.

[Cuban_Liberal]

142. Uh huh, I do.

it's not too late, y'all! :)

[greatauntoftriplets]

143. Yep.

You are not alone.

Good luck tomorrow, Paddy.

[Cuban_Liberal]

145. Tag! You're it!

LOL! :evilgrin:

[mikehiggins]

149. No you're not alone.

All us Clark types are secretly feeling the same thing, even if we have signed on to help Kerry (not me, by the way, not in this life).

The main question I have is when we have the Viking funeral for the Democratic Party after November, shall we include the cask of whiskey and the dog, or just use Ripple?

[diamondsoul]

151. ROTFL

Ripple, definitely.

[AntiCoup2K4]

155. nah, the alcohol has been scrapped in favor of a bottle of...

Heinz Ketchup. Just seems more appropriate under the circumstances :(

[DeaconBlues]

157. I was for Clark until he dropped out

and I definitely don't secretly feel the way you do.

Go Kerry, beat Bush!

[DeaconBlues]

156. I see absolutely no evidence that Kerry will

be anything but a topknotch candidate, despite all the defeatist attitudes here at DU. After all, he has served up every other Democratic candidate on a silver platter (except Edwards), and he's done this while making the party united and stronger. He'll do the same to Bush in the fall.

[mermaid]

159. I Don't FEEL I'm Watching a Train Wreck...I KNOW IT!!

n/t

[mdmc]

162. Kerry can win

Just like Dean.

[Cuban_Liberal]

163. That a matter of opinion.

If everyone agreed, no one but Kerry would be in the race.

[mdmc]

165. Edwards can win too.

Just like Dean.

[TheDonkey]

168. Edwards can win then?

If he can't even get close to JK in the primary. How the heck is he going to be bush in the GE.

Edwards is a fine man, but just needed some more time in politics. He can run for governor of Carolina, when's it up?.

[Cuban_Liberal]

169. Only 25% of the delegates have been chosen so far.

It's always helpful to remember that fact.

[Cheswick2.0]

164. YES

but I feel the same way about Edwards.

[janx]

170. kick

[Claire Beth]

171. It will only wreck if we let it!

a vote for the democratic nominee is better than the alternative for sure! The dem base is energized and Kerry CAN WIN. I live in TN and I hear it everyday. If the south is pulling for Kerry and/or Edwards, then the GOPERS are in trouble. I was a Clark supporter before he ever announced but didn't feel like a train wrecked when he bowed out. The IMPORTANT thing in this race is to guarantee we are not stuck with another 4 years of the current administration. I'd vote for Mickey Mouse if *HE* were the democratic nominee before I'll let let the current administration have it with MY vote.

[RetroLounge]

172. Could be