CTLawGuy
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Sun Feb-22-04 05:46 PM
Original message |
The DLC electoral strategy |
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is to have a candidate who supports enough of GW's policies to get the "swing voters" while shaming and scaring the base into falling in line.
If this works, progressives will be permanently disenfranchised from the Democratic Party.
The DLC will use this to destroy the next Howard Deans and Dennis Kuciniches. They will claim only spineless corporate politicians are "electable", and will point to 2004 as evidence.
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Old and In the Way
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Sun Feb-22-04 05:49 PM
Response to Original message |
1. You think this up all by yourself? |
CTLawGuy
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Sun Feb-22-04 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
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our views and idea mean nothing to this party. Our outrage at IWR means nothing to this party and now they expect us to fall in line.
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sangh0
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Mon Feb-23-04 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
23. We don't expect you to "fall in line" |
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but you're about your outrage meaning nothing. That's because your outrage does mean nothing to them and nothing to most Democratic voters, who have made it clear they have no problem voting for a Dem who voted for IWR
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Scott Lee
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Mon Feb-23-04 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #23 |
31. That's exactly what is wrong with the Democratic "soul" |
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Sure you could shunt this off as a simple will of the majority thing. But then again, majorities had no problems with cartloads of Jews going through their neighborhoods to points unknown in Nazi Germany, either.
That "principle" thing.
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sangh0
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Mon Feb-23-04 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #31 |
37. Your thinking is what's wrong with the Democratic Party |
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The Democratic Party has NEVER stood for calling Democrats "Nazis"
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janx
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Sun Feb-22-04 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
3. I wouldn't make any rash assumptions about that. |
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It's more of a question, really, than a statement.
It might be worth looking into. The DLC leaders most definitely did play a role in the early primaries.
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Nashyra
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Sun Feb-22-04 05:52 PM
Response to Original message |
4. And this is presented as fact |
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or opinion? I hope it is fact because that means the Dems will be successful in 2004. "Electable in 2004" if they are pointing it out as evidence then we will have won back the WH and if that is the case the progressives can get to work the morning after the elction to start to bring the party back to the left. There is surely no movement to the left if * is re-elected.
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CTLawGuy
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Sun Feb-22-04 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
7. They can't bring the party back to the left if this happens... |
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because being that far to the right would have won the election. This fact could be used to crush any progressive reform.
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NWHarkness
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Sun Feb-22-04 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
11. And how, exactly, are they going to do that? |
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Will they expel progressives from Congress? Purge them from the party rolls? Block them from organizing or running for local office? Outlaw MoveOn? Raid the offices of The Nation and Mother Jones? Throw Dean and Kuchinich and Sharpton in jail?
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CTLawGuy
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Sun Feb-22-04 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #11 |
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"electability" "ELECTABILITY" "ElEcTaBiLiTy"!
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AntiCoup2K4
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Sun Feb-22-04 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
12. How do you, as a Clark supporter, deny this is the case? |
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Clark campaigned as an outsider, against the corrupt "Beltway" system. The DLC and mediawhores shut him down sooner than they did Dean. The DLC rigged the game, in their own favor, from the beginning. I'll bet if you asked the General off the record he would tell you exactly that.
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Gman
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Sun Feb-22-04 05:53 PM
Response to Original message |
5. This line is getting very old and tired |
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and comes across as just so much crying because someone's candidate won't be the nominee.
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CTLawGuy
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Sun Feb-22-04 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
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Im talking about the long term future of this party. When all you people whine about spinelessness and then fall in line, its really sad. It shows we can be trampled over.
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Gman
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Sun Feb-22-04 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
16. Spinelessness??? There are a ton of us that agree with the DLC |
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Edited on Sun Feb-22-04 06:14 PM by Gman
as a way to bring balance to the party against those that are single issue like the IWR people, anti-corporate-no-matter-what crowd, etc. Someone that won't support the Dem nominee because of their IWR vote either 1) has too much money and never really worked in their life or 2) are really oblivious to the real long-term problems with this country.
Besides, in general, when it comes down to it, the Party has done very well over the years regardless of the attempts of the extreme left to hold it hostage. Clinton won in '92 and '96. Gore won in '00 despite the extreme left's attempt to bring him down. We really don't need the extreme left and, personally, I'd prefer we don't have them if they are going to try to hold the party hostage over the IWR vote.
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SaddenedDem
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Mon Feb-23-04 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #16 |
25. Your revisionism is atrocious |
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Edited on Mon Feb-23-04 12:46 PM by SaddenedDem
The Democratic party needs MUCH more than the White House to claim a winning strategy.
Every year since Clinton's first election they have lost seats in Congress, the Senate and Governor's Mansions.
This is EXACTLY the problem with the DLC/DNC. They keep throwing out Clinton's "wins" as gospel, even when he didn't win a plurality of the vote. They continue to use a proven failed strategy and then browbeat the base into supporting their version of republicanism.
The voters have proven, without doubt, that a choice between the real thing (republican) and a cheap imitation (DLC/DNC Democrats) they will choose the real thing every time or just stay home.
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sangh0
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Mon Feb-23-04 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #16 |
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For all the whining from their supporters, the candidates who made IWR and the PATRIOT Act a centerpiece of their campaign received the fewest votes.
For months we heard how the Dems that voted for these were going to pay in the primaries. Some prediction!
Now these same people, wrong as they have been, are telling us what the DLC thinks. These people don't even know what their neighbors think, and they think they are omniscient.
Yeah, right
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SaddenedDem
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Mon Feb-23-04 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #26 |
27. No, the majority does NOT agree |
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Edited on Mon Feb-23-04 01:07 PM by SaddenedDem
When given the choice between the real thing (republicans) and the cheap imitation (DLC/DNC Democrats) they choose the real thing or stay home.
You try to neglect the statistic that shows more and more voters in this country - a CLEAR majority - simply don't bother to vote.
That's because the DLC/DNC is no longer an opposition party.
The majority says there's no reason to vote.
edit: spelling
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sangh0
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Mon Feb-23-04 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #27 |
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Non-voters don't get counted because their votes don't count.
The majority says there's no reason to vote.
So go join the majority
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SaddenedDem
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Mon Feb-23-04 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #38 |
40. ROFL, admitting defeat |
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With all the grace of an elephant.
No, sorry, I'll be at the voting booth in November.
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sangh0
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Mon Feb-23-04 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #40 |
41. Voting for the Dem or a loser? |
SaddenedDem
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Mon Feb-23-04 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #41 |
42. I told ya - Howard Dean all the way |
ayeshahaqqiqa
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Sun Feb-22-04 05:53 PM
Response to Original message |
6. We're not to the convention yet |
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I'm waiting to see what happens there, who the Presidential and Vice Presidential nominees are, and how much input from progressives is put into the platform. Will Kucinich have a role in the convention? What will Dean do?
After the Democrats are elected, we'll be watching what happens in the White House. If it is the same old same old, I predict the beginnings of a new progressive party from the grass roots level. I've seen the beginnings of it in my own county-everyone willing to vote Dem in the GE, but then working for a truly people-oriented party after that.
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Philosophy
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Sun Feb-22-04 05:59 PM
Response to Original message |
9. Kerry is already starting this |
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I know I have seen at least a few times where he as said something to the effect of "my position on this issue is exactly the same as *'s or Cheney's" (the gay marriage issue specifically, for one), as if that is a good thing.
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Guava Jelly
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Sun Feb-22-04 06:02 PM
Response to Original message |
10. Sounds like B.S. to me |
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I think a small portion of Deaniacs (Not all but a chunk of them) are old Greenies and Nader Supporters. I'll call them Greaniacs. Sabotaging the democratic party and Getting Bush a Second term is just retarded. There will never be a pres Nader.Face it All that is going to happen is if The dems loose big this time They are going to think they went to far to the left and move towards the right. This election is important We don't need judas nader phucking our nation up by getting the chimp 4 more years
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CWebster
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Sun Feb-22-04 06:07 PM
Response to Original message |
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they will claim we have to move even further to the Right, while blaming Nader. Hey, can't blame Nader if people would rather vote for him than Kerry.
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wyldwolf
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Sun Feb-22-04 06:08 PM
Response to Original message |
14. Please Please Please prove it |
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And while you're at it, show us how the DLC has that kind of power and where it is derived from.
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shance
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Sun Feb-22-04 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
17. The record/patterns/bias by DLC speak for themselves. |
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They are no friend to the real Democratic party and thats no new news.
Was it Al Fromm, cant remember, who was found donating to Bushs campaign.
I wouldnt call that exactly Democratic loyalty, would you?
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wyldwolf
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Sun Feb-22-04 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
18. I don't know, was it? |
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Did Al From do that?
That is a serious charge.
And still, no proof of what I asked.
Show us the the record/patterns/bias of the DLC.
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Eloriel
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Mon Feb-23-04 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #18 |
32. Here's some info for ya |
Scott Lee
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Mon Feb-23-04 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #32 |
34. No fair! Eloriel's using facts! |
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This is terribly unfair to the DLC puppets. Help! Mods!
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Lefty48197
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Sun Feb-22-04 07:24 PM
Response to Original message |
19. Darboy, I thought you were serious for a moment |
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"supports enough of GW's policies" - That's pretty funny. You should write for the Dennis Miller show.
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Iverson
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Sun Feb-22-04 07:33 PM
Response to Original message |
20. As my students say, "well, duh!" |
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Only some of them say that, not all of them.
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Iverson
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Mon Feb-23-04 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #20 |
21. surely that can't be the last word on this topic |
RichM
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Mon Feb-23-04 12:39 PM
Response to Original message |
22. Exactly right. Not even controversial. |
redqueen
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Mon Feb-23-04 12:42 PM
Response to Original message |
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After this primary seaason, and all their 'help' to Gore last time around, I doubt if many will be scared into supporting milquetoast candidates again.
I know I won't.
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Dhalgren
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Mon Feb-23-04 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #24 |
28. After November, any "progressive" who stays with the |
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Dems is a fool. Win or lose. The Dem party wants to be the great Middle/Right Party, let 'em - but without my support (I've been a voting Democrat since 1972). I no longer can hold out any hope of true progressive politics coming from the Dems, and I've given 'em 30 years. It's over.
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redqueen
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Mon Feb-23-04 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #28 |
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If progressives want to change this party, they need to wake up and realize that what they've been doing has failed miserably.
I'm switching my registration after the primary.
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Raya
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Mon Feb-23-04 12:59 PM
Response to Original message |
30. Nader's Entry forces Kerry to go after independent republican since |
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Nader will be taking the 2% on the left that would otherwise go to Kerry.
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Eloriel
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Mon Feb-23-04 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #30 |
33. Which suits him fine since that's where his votes for the last 3 yrs |
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have positioned him anyway.
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Scott Lee
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Mon Feb-23-04 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #30 |
35. How is this different than Kerry's sucking up to Bush anyway? |
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Kerry has voted to support Bush on virtually all the major issues of this campaign. I don't see why you're worried about bringing republicans over to Kerry.
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IrateCitizen
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Mon Feb-23-04 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #30 |
36. Utterly false premise... |
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Those whose favorite hobby is lambasting Ralph Nader and anyone whose mouth does not immediately begin to drip with venom at the mere mention of his name would have you believe that he will capture the same 3% of the vote in THIS election as he did in 2000. However, such a postulate is dependent on complete ignorance of the incredible changes in the past 3+ years.
For example, I voted for Ralph Nader in 2000 from NY, a safe Democratic state. I did so because I saw the corporate influence within the Democratic Party as destroying both the party and the national debate. I also did so with no idea that the world as I knew it would change profoundly in 10 months, or that those changes would unleash the utter ruthlessness of the most reactionary elements of the Republican Party upon us.
In fact, if 9/11/01 had never happened, I would argue that a Bush Presidency could have been the best thing that could have happened to Congressional Democratic chances. Just look at how he was already reeling by August 2001.
But, alas, we will never know what could have happened. We can only deal with what HAS happened.
I'm not a fan of Nader's run this time, because I feel it really cannot do any good -- but even he has outright stated that either Kerry or Edwards would be a vast improvement over Bush. He also claims that he is running to say things that neither Kerry nor Edwards could say -- not to attack the Democrats, but to attack Bush with a very pointed message that will allow the Democratic nominee to move slightly more progressive while still being able to portray themselves as "moderate".
Of course, only time will tell if he's telling the truth on this. And I don't plan to vote for nor support him this time around.
Just the fact that the entire world has changed so much since 2000 should tell any honest, thinking person that the vast majority of people who voted for Nader in 2000 will not be doing so this time around -- that they are ABB all the way, recognizing the importance of discharging this gang of thugs from power. I would be surprised to see him get close to 1% of the vote this time around.
Hell, even Michael Parenti recognizes this. Why can't you?
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redqueen
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Mon Feb-23-04 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #36 |
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it's not obvious?
Facts and stuff are so boring.
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