It's not Nader, it's the electoral system, stupid!

[GreenPartyVoter]

"George W. Bush lost the popular vote in the 2000 election and was installed as president by a questionable party-line vote of the U.S. Supreme Court despite the illegal and widespread disenfranchisement of African American voters in Florida perpetrated by Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris. Rather than challenging or investigating these blatant banana republic shenanigans, the press and the Democrats decided that the greatest failure of the American electoral system in history was the fault of one individual: Ralph Nader.

Now that Mr. Nader has again decided to seek the presidency, the media and the incredibly shrinking Democratic Party will overlook the obvious once more. The problem isn’t having an accomplished consumer advocate or too many candidates in the race. No, here’s the problem: It’s the electoral system, stupid."

Full article here: http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0223-10.htm

ON edit: I have to add that while IRV is preferable to plurality voting, it is still prone to the same spoiler issues. See this article for more on that: http://www.electionmethods.org/IRVproblems.html

[trumad]

1. incredibly shrinking Democratic Party? :wtf:

And who were the folks who voted to give Gore the popular vote by 500 thousand votes?

[StopTheMorans]

2. respectfully, it's the man with the largest head this side of OJ

with the afro in Naked Gun: Ladies and Gentleman, Ralph Nader!

[Blayde Starrfyre]

3. True, but

The real problem is our incredibly antiquated state-based bicameral legislature. Parliamentary government is where it's at, baby. Then 3-4% of the seats would be Green, and they could form a coalition with the Dems.

It's time to start a movement to toss our 200-year-old system. Campaign finance reform? Whatever, not far enough. It was the best in its day, but we can do better.

[GreenPartyVoter]

4. McCain-Feingold is not the campaign finance reform we needed

What we need are true public campaigns. See the link on my website.

[beyurslf]

5. Ralph Nader can think he didn't throw the election all he wants

But I can add. 500+ odd vote difference in FL and he got how many in FL? 4000 or so?

Still think there is no difference between Gore and Bush? Read my quote.

[mohc]

6. Then change the electoral system FIRST

There have many discussions on this board about the various alternative electoral systems: IRV, Condorcet, Approval, etc. I am in agreement that FPTP does not work well for elections in single member districts, and effectively the vote for the President is one. But one is not going to bring about chage by simply showing you can spoil FPTP causing a candidate that actually has more support to lose. This expectation that the Greens, or any third party for that matter, will get electoral change by basically saying "If you won't change the system we will just keep hurting you" is quite silly. Work with and inside the Democratic party to institute electoral change and THEN run large scale third party campaigns. Granted, its going to be a long and hard fight. The Democrats are not going to like enacting change that will ultimately mean they lose some support to third parties (actually once IRV or Condorcet is in effect the term third party will be meaningless since we will move from a two party system to a multiparty system). But they are going to be far more willing to make the change if the third parties are helping them win elections, not lose.

[GreenPartyVoter]

12. Hence the reason I am ABB and voting Dem this time.

I feel that I have to give them some support now to get the elction reform I want later. And no, to those of you who think this is armtwisting on my part, it isn't. Why would you even bother to vote for a candidate who won't give you what you want? Of course we should tell officials what we expect from them when they are in office. They are representing US.

[jpgray]

7. Great! Now what's your plan to change it? Not liking it? (nt)

[GreenPartyVoter]

9. See my website for ideas on what to do

[ChiefJoseph]

8. The EC is never going to be abolished.

So let's not waste time discussing it.

Also, I don't think it should be abolished, so this reality pleases me.

[GreenPartyVoter]

10. I think it ought to be reformed though

I have two excellent aricles, one pro EC and one against which are worth reading. I find the pro one makes some very good points, hence my thinking that reforms the EC may be the way to go.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

11. IRV is great, why is Nader running again?

Ross Perot was a viable third party movement, and he got 20% of the vote. Ralph Nader - I read his book, but why bother? It's too bad the Greens didn't get their 5% and matching funds, but again, why bother? Ralph Nader is no Ross Perot.