I'll find my resignation and silver linings if Hillary loses IA and NH...

[annie1]

Even though I love hil and want her to win, if Hillary loses the 3 early states, that just says to me she doesn't have what it takes. If she loses to someone who is pretty much uninspiring to me (Barack), then I need to realize that I am of another era and move on.

I'm almost 35, so I was 18 that's when i was introduced to Hillary. As a female I loved how independent she was, i loved her cookie comment, i loved her child advocacy past, the 2 for 1 attitude (and Bill was awesome). The stuff that people hated about Hillary, i loved, to me she was a hero, she was bad-ass. And I loved Bill until he did a few things that upset me. But I still loved her, and to me she was independent and fierce. (and a bit bitchy, which i like).

But to younger people now she may not come across like that. Now she's 60 and people who are 18 now probably see her differently, and women now might be even more independent than I was then, even though to me they don't seem it.

So it's a new generation now, it the kids future ahead of them (and by kids i mean 18-30). They like Barack, it's their future and they deserve a president who's going to shape their world.

and now for the plus side if she doesn't win, i won't have to watch one of my favorite people get torn apart from the people on the left and the people on the right. i'm tired of people hating on her and the clinton's (yes, i still really like Bill). So maybe it's good the politics will get a fresh start with a new person with little history. Granted, that fresh start didn't work for Bill, his first 100 days were an onslaught of hatred from republicans, but people seem to believe Barack can transcend that somehow, so I won't begrudge him if he wins. And another silver lining, I won't have to fret all year over what happens, because Barack seems like he can take care of himself. With Hillary I feel so protective, and it would be so important to me that I would feel the need to work so hard to campaign for her. With Barack, he's got his supporters, I'm sure he'll pull through just fine. And I bet young republicans will vote for him, so I won't have to work doubly hard to make up for all the hil haters who will come to vote against her.

If she doesn't win, and she doesn't become president, I will be sad as hell. I'll know she would have done such a good job. But I'm sure Barack will be fine if he becomes the president (and may have some pluses in some international healing sort of way), and I won't have to worry about it. And that was me making peace with it in advance.

[mahina]

1. Let there be peace on earth,

and let it begin with me. Your post gave me pause, and I for one found it inspirational. May the best candidate win, and all of us do what we can to make things good. Rec'd. Aloha.

[Colobo]

2. What a beautiful post, annie.

I understand how you feel about Hillary- I feel the same way about Barack. I'm 24 and I look up to him as a symbol, the leader of my generation and a role model for generations to come.

I just want to tell you that, whatever the outcome of the primaries, you can count with me, and I expect to count with you if my guy doesn't make it. A big hug for you and thanks for your sincerity and openess. :hug:

[annie1]

6. thanks. thanks everyone. : )

[calteacherguy]

21. delete. nt

[Lithos]

3. I hope you don't hang things up...

And I say this for anyone who would feel similarly discouraged by whatever happens. I'm in a Red State whose polling is so far out that it effectively makes my opinion meaningless; everything is decided by the time it comes around to us. So, my viewpoint is oriented more towards what type of party we're going to present afterwards. I believe more than ever, that the rich slate of candidates has been a boon as it has kept the issues up in the foreground far more than 2004 and probably more so than since 1992. So, even for those who do not move on, their legacy is still an active part of the campaign.

On Edit: I also meant to add, your post is one of the best I've read on the subject. It is definitely from the heart and represents the type of core values that has always made me proud of the Democratic Party; people are attracted to real, positive things and building bridges and inclusion. This is a wonderful counterpoint to the Republicans whose attraction is not towards building bridges, but walls; whose energy is based out of fear and exclusion.


L-

[TeamJordan23]

4. I agree with a lot of what you are saying.

I am in my mid 20s now and am a strong Obama supporter. Maybe it is because he is young and something fresh, but I feel like he is my generation's candidate.

Although I didn't follow politics back then (because I was young), I also admire the younger Hillary. I liked how she spoke from her heart, no matter how controversial it might be. I think she was a natural back than and over the years has become a 'politician.' I just find her way to calculating now and too much of an opportunistic. I just wish she would show her true self as she used to. Maybe it is the age or maybe politics has just changed her. But I still think she is brilliant and would be a good President.

[ElizabethDC]

5. If it makes you feel better, I'm 21, and I support Hillary

and I know a lot of other folks of my generation who do, too. There are many of us who grew up with her as a role model - I know I did!

I'm not resigning myself to a Hillary loss just yet. We don't know what's gonna happen in Iowa, so I'm not gonna spend my time worrying about it.

(Edited for crappy spelling.)

[annie1]

7. awesome. : ). i love her.

[JI7]

8. you are wrong, she had young women just months ago for the same reasons

you became a fan of her.

as i said in that other thread, the reason she has lost that support is because she seems to have been trying to win the votes of older men who often have different top concern issues than younger women.

[annie1]

9. hmmm. right, i remember she was going to have to go after the male vote...

it sucks guys have a hard time with her. i'm going to poll my male friends tmrw see what up with them.

[ElizabethDC]

10. I think she's been concentrating on older voters, especially in Iowa

because they tend to be more reliable when it comes to turnout on election day. But she did launch an effort called "Hillblazers" for young people a few weeks ago, so we haven't been totally left out. Actually, I think her campaign has gotten better at its youth outreach in the past two or three months, at least from my experience as a college student.

[BeatleBoot]

11. And then there was John Edwards...

To set it right.

[philly_bob]

12. In a campaign that last so long, and in an era when politics is so important,

it's almost as if we develop complicated personal relationships with these people.

Your OP is a sensitive and honest assessment of your feelings about one of these relationships; thanks for posting it.

[jaysunb]

13. Your post is very interesting for several reasons.

First, until tonight, I'd forgotten that a large portion of the upcoming electorate will have only known a Bush or Clinton administration, ( including Reagan/Bush) 1980- present.So, it's understandable that you and others would feel an affinity to those who have served as role models.

For informational purposes, it should be noted that, Lady Bird Johnson, Rosalind Carter and Nancy Reagan were all strong women in their own right and had great influence on their respective husbands presidency's. Sen Clinton is (IMO) an extension of that modern day equality that first ladies enjoy.

But while Sen Clinton may embody the spirit of womens equality, and there's no doubt she would be a capable executive, she is at the heart of what has been a near death dance for this country. She and I are in the same generation and we appear to be on the same page in many areas, but the lady and her candidacy will only serve to extend the cultural and generational fight we've been in since the 60's.

IMO it's time to end the fued about who went to Nam, who protested, who ducked the draft, who liked the war but didn't serve, who should the government serve and what are the boundries that dictate the corporate influence in the peoples government. It's time to let you and my children ( who range from 41 to 24) and their children determine their own future through the leadership of one of their own.

Take heart. Michelle Obama will continue to inspire and empower American women like none before her. Sen Clinton will now and always be an American icon whether or not she wins the nomination .

For the above reasons, I hope not.......

[annie1]

15. interesting.

smart.

[Joe the Revelator]

14. You don't like me, and I like you

So I hope that one day, in February, we can unite together behind Barack,

[dpbrown]

16. Barack Obama won't win a general election against a Republican

So these people who are wanting a young guy to represent their interests are going to be crying in the beers about the Nader of 2008.

[loveangelc]

17. And hillary will??? LOL.

[dpbrown]

18. One does not mean the other

Don't assume I'm a Clinton supporter just because I'm not an Obama supporter.

The op opined on Hillary's appeal to younger voters but assumed that Obama would win a general election. I think that assumption is flawed.

[sandnsea]

23. But the polls are not valid because he's winning Republicans

Folks are going to have to make up their minds.

[BringBigDogBack]

25. Incorrect.

But (hopefully) we shall see.

[Catherine Vincent]

19. But at least she tried.

a woman has to be strong and intelligent to become president, Hillary fit the bill. If it isn't to be, it just wasn't meant to be.

[annie1]

20. Yes. True. : ).

[calteacherguy]

22. Nice post, Annie.

You expressed your feelings very well. I'm 41, and I believe that Obama is 46? Anyway, I do get a sense that he's part of "my generation," which is interesting since you are 35.

Anyway, we should all be happy because G.W.B. won't be on the ballot in the New Year, I say! :party:

[BringBigDogBack]

24. we deserve a fresh start

all of us do.

[Beacool]

26. You're giving up too soon.

Even if she loses in IA & NH, she can still win the nomination. Did you forget Super Tuesday??? The battle has just began and it's too soon to throw in the towel!!!

P.S. I never thought that she had a chance in IA, so I'm surprised that she has done so well and that the race is too close to call.

[hayu_lol]

27. Annie and Elizabeth, It was something over 30 years ago that women...

(now in their 50's & 60's)were fighting for some very important but simple rights. This might be the reason that the younger crowd, as noted in this thread, are unimpressed by what Hillary has accomplished and why they appear to be turned off to her.

The younger women have grown up expecting to be able to do what they are interested in. Most of the restrictions are gone. Women's days when female students are exposed to professional women(doctors, engineers, scientists, pilots, designers, and more)take this as 'normal.' They need to be reminded that 30 years ago, female students, no matter how outstanding, were encouraged to marry, to become elementary teachers, to become worker bees out in the world.

The complex issue of choice, seemingly set in concrete at this point as settled law, is riding on a razor's edge. Can other rights and encouragements survive longer than choice?

We know that the biggest stumbling block for the advance toward equality for women, the radical christian right, wish to have women return to the limited world of home, kitchen, and nursery.

The younger generation(under 25)are not really aware of this fight. They were brought up predominently to be able to chart their own future and not used to being told what they could do.

Women's groups across the country are fighting to bring this history alive again. They are trying to get the younger group to become aware of the history of just a few years ago. The things in our culture that young women of today take for granted, took years of women being jailed and persecuted to further their options.

This is a generational matter. During WWII, because they were needed, women were employed in jobs that they would not have been hired to do previously. Women, as a result, found that they enjoyed doing these--for them--exotic jobs, enjoyed not spending their lives with nothing more satisfying than children and kitchen...or in doing simple jobs in unsatisfying employment. They found that they too could design aircraft, or ships, or run corporations, or do things that 60 years ago would have been unthinkable.

Those who created this freedom of movement, forgot to remind the younger generation that it had been a battle, every bit as much of a battle as the suffragettes went through 100 years ago. Younger women should be exposed to this history so that they can understand where they are today.

In my own family, one woman in the 1880s became the first female engineer graduated from MIT. My grandmother, born 1868, became an MD. But these were exceptionally hard-nosed women who could and did survive in a man's world.

We don't appear to have instinctual memory passed on genetically. We have to be taught again, over and over, what is right in each successive generation.

[Alamom]

28. This incredible post should be an OP. Thank you. You've said more

about our history, our lives in this post than most could write in a book.


I graduated High School in 1970. We could vote and many things had changed but we were still scratching and clawing for the same jobs, the same pay and the same rights as men in the workplace and in society.


There are still differences and the fight is not over. We need strong women like Hillary Clinton to continue to lead the way.



Thank you again, hayu_lol

01/01/1008 - First great read of the New Year.



Alamom, 55
Female

[Tellurian]

31. Yes, I wish hayu_lol would copy and paste it as a new OP..

maybe...

[Cameron27]

50. I agree, your post needs it's own thread.

:thumbsup:

[leftynyc]

54. And delegate rich Florida before

super Tuesday. These early primaries are meaningless (aside from ego) for the candidates that have the money to stick it out till 2/5. Unfortunately, my candidate (Biden) probably doesn't have that kind of money.

[bean fidhleir]

29. I was deluded by her too. I only started waking up during the Monica thing

I thought her totally corporatized health-insurance plan was an honest mistake. But then when she "stood by her man" after the Monica revelations rather than throwing his ass out, I began to realize that her feminism is just another accessory, like a scarf. And the same with her liberalism, humanism, etc. They're all just scarves and pins. Part of a particular look, but not part of her.

[Tellurian]

30. Except her resume listing her accomplishments are a part of her..

When a soldier is decorated with a Purple Heart, yes it's an accessory exhibiting his valor. The soldier remains who he is in mind and heart with or without an outward expression exhibiting his courage. So it goes with Hillary, with or without accessories.

GO HILLARY!

[bean fidhleir]

32. Her accomplishments are not the kind decent people should tolerate, never mind encourage

A corporatist health-insurance program?

Crimes against peace and humanity?

Exaltation of corporations and the wealthy?



What sort of people aren't repelled by such accomplishments? I have no use for them.

[hayu_lol]

33. Tell you something Bean...

You are using Repugnant talking points when you downplay Hillary's healthcare plans.

16 years ago, she developed a healthcare plan because as she said at the time: Our healthcare system is in crisis...it is broken.

The Repugnants attacked her loudly denying that there were any healthcare problems in the country. Hillary was right, the Repugnants were wrong.

What crimes do you(and the Repugnants)claim that Hillary has committed?
How do her alleged crimes stack up agains't the crimes of the Repugnants and BushCo?

Support of corporations and the wealthy? You really need to define this a bit more--give us specifics please.

Hillary has devoted much of the past 40 years to helping those: children, wives and mothers, and others who were unable to help themselves. She did this by both individual and group organizations--she performed major Pro-bono work at her own expense. She is the only candidate that we have who has devoted her life to these causes.

Sexism raises it's ugly head here: She and her husband obviously still have a marriage. If she chooses to stay with Bill, that is her decision, not yours or anyone elses. I note that Hillary's child, Chelsea, has not thrown away her father. This all speaks well for Hillary and now Chelsea's strengths. You want to attack this? This is the real family values that some prattle on, without substance, endlessly--until push comes to shove and they bail.

Looks to me that Hillary is a strong enough human being to handle setbacks and continue toward her goals. People like you cannot understand that. Perhaps Haggard's values are more important to you?

Out of all our candidates, only Hillary can stand the attacks that are coming. She has already faced all that the Repugs could throw...they are out of ammunition and she is still standing there waiting for the right time to return the attacks. Only Hillary has the long term history of service to others--the others, just don't have the resume.

As a male, I enjoy seeing strong, intelligent, and innovative women come on the scene. Most of you Ben, just do not like strong women.

In 1949, the Chinese leadership made an earthshaking comment: Women hold up half the sky. They haven't fully lived up to that comment as yet...and they may never. But, at least they said it. Long before our strong intelligent women got a shot at glass ceilings.

Further, as it applies to this campaign...The Repugnants want Obama to be the candidate. They can defeat him. Edwards? They can easily get him to lose his way. They do not want to confront Hillary. She can beat them at their own rotten game.

[annie1]

42. I suppose it is her fault no other health care plan would be an option...

with the way things are in washington and the U.S. right now? even with a mild plan she tried to propose she had to wear a bullet proof vest went she did a tour to talk about it in 94. So let's be realistic.

[bean fidhleir]

47. "So let's be realistic"

No, let's not be "realistic". Let's demand what we need, and refuse to be bought off.

[annie1]

49. so it's indecent...

for her to at least try within the system? even if it is the wrong thing to do, it's not something indecent to try get people affordable insurance. b/c there is no way in hell she can get anything else.

[bean fidhleir]

52. Let's agree to disagree, shall we? (nt)

[ecstatic]

34. You were not in her marriage and it's definitely not your place to judge

A true feminist respects the rights of other women to make their own decisions.

[bean fidhleir]

40. She has the right to make her own decision, yes

And the obligation to take the consequences. My disapproval is one of the consequences. Feminism does not demand that we stick our heads in the sand. Sisterhood is not "sugar and spice and everything nice".

[annie1]

43. her "corporatized" health insurance is not an honest mistake...

it's her TRYING to get people covered. anyone come any closer to getting people covered? obviously not since so many people have no fucking health insurance.

[bean fidhleir]

48. Yes, I know it wasn't. But it took me a while to realize that. (nt)

[Capn Sunshine]

35. It's not Hillary

Hillary has what it takes. It's her incompetent assclown campaign that is fumbling this away.

Hillary with a better campaign staff would be a runaway winner.

With this bunch, she's going to be a Senator eight more years.

[hayu_lol]

36. Actually Cap'n, Hillary will be our next president...

the opposition, including that from within our own party has already exhausted their ammunition--they have thrown all the crap they've got at her and she is about ready to return the favor.

Her campaign has been right on track from the first day. She has made adjustments due to circumstances, and they've worked for the most part.

The used car sale is about over...now we get to the action.

Remember: Hillary is the next president.

[mahina]

37. Hey, can you please tell me what stocks to buy for best results in the next year?

Also, what areas to invest in real estate, and when I'm going to die?
Dang, I wish I had a crystal ball too. But Thank God we know you.

[hayu_lol]

38. Well Mahina, why don't you...

look around and buy just the house you want to live in...the one you really like. After all, you can't take investments with you.

When will you die? Ask your insurance salesperson--they tend to have a copy of the actuarial tables that can give you a rough idea.

As to god, that is purely between you and her.

[annie1]

39. i agree, these people are a mess.

[fightindonkey]

41. Obama Would Lose The Majority of the States

You aren't of another era. These people are from the Jimmy Carter ilk, losing elections for 12 years soon after. Next.

[readmoreoften]

44. THEIR WORLD? Since when do teens and twenty-somethings decide US policy?

Sorry I'm 37 and this generation is more passive and out of touch then Gen X. I teach college for a living and I love my students but I wouldn't trust them to choose my president. I'd trust them to choose my iPod style and maybe--maybe--the cut of my jeans, but definitely not my president. They are the unimaginably passive generation I have ever seen. They don't march, they don't fight. They've never known anything but Bush and Clinton as president. They have absolutely no perspective.

Sorry but this world doesn't belong to them.

[annie1]

45. yeah, that was a bit of an exaageration i guess. :D.

but a big part of it is theirs. they seem to like the guy, so who am i to be sad if he wins and she doesn't kind of thing. is more what i meant.

[sendero]

46. The "world" belongs to voters..

... and younger folks have a dismal record of turning out.

Maybe Bush outrage will change that this time, we shall see.

[hayu_lol]

51. What it would take to get the attention of potential young voters...

is the draft. Thanks to George and Dick, we already have the war.

In the 60s, thats what it took.

[hayu_lol]

53. Looks like many of our candidates are losing their way...

they are making survival deals with each other. Sorta leaves Hillary out in the front taking on the right wing all by herself.

Campaigns are like this. Vote!