Perspective

[NanceGreggs]

Gather ‘round, fellow DUers – I want to share a story with you.

A few weeks back, there was a televised Democratic debate – which, unfortunately, I did not see. So I came here to DU in the wee hours of the morning, knowing that many of you would have posted clips from the debate, along with your comments.

I found several posts from Obama supporters with links to a clip they all assured me was Obama’s finest moment. After watching the video, I was appalled. As an Obama fan, I thought it was his worst moment to date.

There were also links posted by the Hillary bashers: watch this, they all said, and you’ll see why she shouldn’t be the next president. I watched and, as a non-Hillary supporter, was amazed at what I thought was an incredible display of wit, style, and an ability to think on her feet.

Does this mean that I was right in my thinking, and everyone else was wrong? Of course not. There is no right or wrong here; it is all a matter of individual perception. And that’s something all of us should remember.

We all like to think we know what’s best for our country, and our fellow Americans. But the truth is, we don’t know simply because we can’t know.

The city dweller will never see a candidate through the eyes of a mid-west farmer; the financially-strapped single mom will never hear a candidate’s speech in the same way it is heard by the financially-comfortable retiree.

The voter whose greatest concern is the environment will never scrutinize a candidate’s stand on the most pressing issues in the same way as the voter who believes election reform trumps every other topic.

The reaction to Obama’s speech last night is just one case in point. Some here heard the words that promised the fulfillment of a dream, while others heard nothing more than insubstantial fluff. We all heard the same words – why did we hear them differently?

Maybe it’s because we are different. And isn’t that something to be applauded, rather than vilified?

This race is far from over. If you believe in your candidate’s ability to lead this nation out of the darkness created by the current administration, support him or her. Contribute what you can financially, knock on doors, make phone calls, distribute flyers – do whatever it takes to make your candidate heard.

But don’t belittle your fellow Democrats because they don’t see things your way. Just because their perspective differs from yours doesn’t make it any less valid, nor their staunch support of their candidate any less intelligently weighed-and-measured than your own.

Let’s keep in mind, especially at this point in the game, that trying to convince a fellow Democrat that his or her choice is wrong, misguided, ill-informed, or just plain stupid isn’t going to get your candidate into the White House.

They’ll only get there if a majority of your fellow citizens agree with what is being proposed by your candidate-of-choice, and their collective perception thereof. And your disdain for those who perceive things differently is, I hate to tell you, not worth a dime - no less a vote.

When I see the "but your guy isn’t electable in the GE" posts, I can only wonder why said poster thinks we have elections in the first place, and why we do not, as a party, simply defer to his/her better judgment and be done with it.

Maybe – just maybe – it’s because the democratic process is meant to include the voices of the many, and not just the voice of the self-proclaimed Decider Guy (and if that phrase doesn’t leave a bad taste in your mouth, nothing will.)

Personally, I am convinced that it will be a Democrat who takes back this country for all of us after the next election. Which candidate that will be is inevitably up to We The People as a whole, and not you the individual whose perception of things may not be the same as the final perception of the majority.

It is important to remember that no Democratic nominee was ever decided simply because one group of supporters out-insulted the supporters of his competitors.

We’re in this to win our country back from the Republicans. Let’s act like it.

More importantly, let’s do it – together.

[The Magistrate]

1. Well Said, Ma'am!

[NanceGreggs]

3. Thanks, Magistrate!

Apparently Poster #2 on this thread thinks this should be moved to The Lounge. I will leave that decision to your better judgment.

[JeffR]

2. Why is this being posted in GDP???

This post is serious, thoughtful, sensible, rational, smart, succinct and positive.

I'm afraid it has no place in this forum...

[avrdream]

20. Ain't that right?

It's painful at DU right now.

Recommended, Nance, because of your perspective (even though we support different candidates right now).

[Demeter]

4. A Candidate That Appeals to the Cash-Strapped Single Mom

will most likely serve the entire nation better than one that appeals to the above-median income group. Because a nation is defined by how it treats its poorest and most vulnerable.

Unless that single mom and that candidate are religious bigots. Then all bets are off.

[midnight]

13. Thats what I think, but I like Nancy's point that it will be all of us.

Let's hope that we will remember the vulnerable when we cast our votes.

[Vektor]

5. You go, Nance.

My sentiments exactly.

Just give me a Democrat in 2008. I'll take any of them.

:hi:

[C_eh_N_eh_D_eh]

6. ... and then get back to crushing the Judean People's Front.

[nxylas]

31. Splitters! n/t

[MarianJack]

7. As Always, Nance,...

...insightful, well thought out and well said.

My wife and I are slightly more than luke warm Hillary supporters, but there are 2 things we can (hopefully) all agree on.

First, ANY of our candidates are better than ANY of their candidates.

Second, I'll feel very good about supporting any possible ticket of ours over any ticket of theirs.

As Democrats, we rarely legitimately lose when we're united.

An enthusiastic K&R for you!

PEACE!

[emilyg]

8. K&R

[frogmarch]

9. You nailed it,

as always, Nance. :thumbsup:

:kick: and Recommended

[Suich]

10. Thanks for the excellent post, NanceGreggs!

It should be required reading for everyone on DU!

I'm thrilled with our choices...whoever gets the nomination is fine with me. I haven't felt this positive in an election year in a long time.

:yourock:

[Sparkly]

11. You so rock, Nance!

Were you around here last night, by any chance?

I think this should be reposted Tuesday night, and every primary after that.

[Egnever]

12. Great post !

But i have to disagree with this...

It is important to remember that no Democratic nominee was ever decided simply because one group of supporters out-insulted the supporters of his competitors

Swift boaters come to mind. As do the spurious attacks on John mcain when he was up against bush. I like the idea of negativity not making an impact unfortunately it does, and has in very demonstratable instances.

[NanceGreggs]

16. I take your point ...

... but I wasn't talking about individuals or organizations who deliberately distort, misrepresent, or out-and-out lie about a candidate.

I was focused on those who say, "If you don't support my choice, you obviously don't understand what's going on, what's at stake, what's important," etc.

I, for one, have had my fill of those remarks over the past few months - and it should seem obvious that insulting someone who is supporting a candidate other than the one you support is not going to result in too many converts to your cause.

[Egnever]

22. I agree with the point of your argument

But I dont think a blanket statement that it doesn't work is necessarily true. I think there is plenty of evidence on this board of people taking talking points from all sides true or completely distorted and internalizing them and regurgitating them without any interest in their voracity. Like george has proven to us time and time again repeat BS enough times and people believe it.


I wish that it were different but I really don't believe it to be true. Theres an old saying that you catch more bees with honey but enough people say honey tastes like crap and the bees start to wonder.

[madamesilverspurs]

14. Thanks for helping us to remember that it's easy to forget

that our current place in life informs our perspective. Case in point, I noticed from my kitchen that a line of lights had gone out on the tree in the front room; when I got close enough to fix it, I had to step back a bit in order to find it again. Perspective. Also, your piece called to mind the story of the several blind men trying to figure out the elephant by touching it; for a brief moment I toyed with the idea of a similar group trying the same with a donkey (hey, we are Democrats), but it took a split second to realize the possible ramifications of inviting discussion of a number of people, blind or blindfolded, getting touchy-feely with an ass. I think it's the only instance in which it's safer to stick with the elephant. Whew, that was close!

[TriMetFan]

15. Well said.

I was just about to post some of the same things you have written. It doesn't matter who wins on the Democrat side, we just need to stick together and take our country back. So again your post is so excellent. Thank You.:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

[ejbr]

17. Okay, but please know that...

Edwards supporters make better lovers. :P

[NanceGreggs]

23. Never doubted THAT for a minute ...

... :hi:

[ninkasi]

18. You are a wise woman, Nancy

and a breath of fresh air. Yes...let's do it together.

[Mythsaje]

19. First, Nance, I don't try to out-insult anyone.

Nor do I set out to insult the candidate. I argue persona, policy, and delivery. I don't play the race or gender game, because I think those are non-starters. As soon as a non-white or woman gains the presidency, it becomes meaningless. And we have no way of knowing if it's possible they can THIS time around. It sure doesn't seem IMpossible. But I also think that, this time around, they're NOT the best candidates to put forward.

And I CAN look at things from the viewpoint of people other than myself. Okay, except rich, complacent elitists. I can't see thing from their perspective cause, frankly, I don't see why I should give a SHIT what their perspective is. Too much money, too much comfort and complacency, can be like a black hole, warping perception the way a singularity warps gravity. I've seen it happen.

I grew up in farming country. My neighbors and friends were family farmers. I've had friends--close friends--who were single mothers on welfare. I've seen their struggles first-hand. I myself have been homeless and hopeless, so far down I wasn't sure how I'd ever get back up again. I've slept in fields, under bridges, and on the side of the freeway more than once trying to get back somewhere where I'd have a fighting chance and a support system of some kind.

I get pissed when I see people saying stuff like "Edwards isn't talking about poverty, he's talking about the middle class." Well, duh. Without a strong middle class, there's nowhere for the poor to GO. There's no helping hand upward. If all the better jobs are being outsourced, and those trained for them are forced into low wage jobs, then there's no jobs at all for those on the very bottom. None at all. If the middle class isn't out there driving the economy, there IS no economy to speak of. Look at places in the U.S. where the middle class is all but dead. They're practically ghost towns already.

Hillary Clinton, like her husband, is a very talented politician. Obama has the makings of a very talented politician. But it's harder than hell for me to tell what they actually CARE about. People are busting on Edwards because he just repeated parts of his stump speech last night. But I think he did it because his candidacy is very much ABOUT all those forgotten people, the ones all too many of us would like to forget even exists. The opportunity to remind America about those people on national television when he has to claw for every chance to get that message out was not one he could, or should, neglect.

Hell, I could. Damn straight I could. I've been down, but I'm not down anymore. I have times when I have to struggle, but I'm not hurting for a meal, or wondering how I'm going to get to work all week. But the people who have it worse than I do, sometimes MUCH worse, are of concern to me. Because I've been there, hanging on to the edge of solvency by my fingernails, or losing my grip and falling into the abyss. I know all too well what it feels like to be there. And I DO NOT forget. I don't forget what it's like to be an abused child, or a confused and lost teenager. And I do not forget what it's like to have nothing, and not know where your next meal is coming from.

I do not forget.

It's the passion for the cause of those far less unfortunate than himself that has drawn me to Edwards from the beginning. I would've sworn that no one who had that much money could ever pour so much of himself into the fight to give them a voice. But I would have been wrong.

I can see that he cares about these issues when he speaks. And that, more than anything, draws my support. I can't send him money, but I can use every resource in my power to echo what he's saying, to try to make others care as much as he seems to about the cause he champions.

His fight is my fight. He's got a national stage from which to wage it. I do not. But I will use what I do have to keep his message from being marginalized. Not for him, but for the faceless and forgotten for whom he speaks.

And that's MY bottom line.

:)

[CaliforniaPeggy]

21. Wonderfully, beautifully said, my dear Nance!

K&R...of course!



:patriot:

[Sparkly]

24. Kickin' it!

:kick:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

25. amen

[puebloknot]

26. "...we don’t know simply because we can’t know." I think we *do* know...

...what is best for this country, and we've seen very little of it over the last seven years. We *know* in the same way that the founders of this country knew, and they were a pretty scrappy bunch. Polite tea-party rhetoric is not what created this country; a tea party of a different sort is!

Spirited discussion is the lifeblood of democracy, and this board is a perfect place for us all to air our own adult perspectives. Well-considered criticism is *not* bashing, and playing nice is the last thing this country needs right now. If we all pull together for the wrong things, we are doomed to live under continuing fascism. We have a right, and a responsibility, to demand straight answers of our candidates. This board is a good maneuvering vehicle for just such an exercise.

To the extent that certain exchanges are not in line with the rules the mods have set out, a wagging of the finger is in order -- by the mods. Beyond that, let the dialogue flow!

[NanceGreggs]

28. Whoa!

I am certainly not advocating any lessening of the conversation here, or anywhere else. And criticism of the candidates is part of that conversation.

This OP was strictly about those posters who say, "If you are supporting any candidate other than my choice, you are obviously less informed, less intelligent, and less understanding of the facts than I am."

My reference to "we can't know" what is best for the country was strictly in the context of the process we're going through now. At this point, no one knows that their candidate-of-choice will be the best president of the group of contenders. We can look at the facts, the past records, the policies, the personalities of the candidates and choose who we believe will be the best choice. That's why all conversation, supportive or critical, is vital.

But I personally get my back up when I see the "if anyone but my candidate winds up as the nominee, we're going to lose in November" posts, as though they know what's best for everyone and we should all just defer to their unerring wisdom and judgment.

[puebloknot]

29. Well, we're basically on the same page: No one should just defer...

...to *anyone's* unerring wisdom and judgment. First, that doesn't exist, and second, the failure of critical thinking is what has brought us to our current national crisis.

Unfortunately, I see a lot of posts here where people take umbrage over discussions critical of their preferred candidate (though they may not be able to articulate *why* they prefer that person) and immediately fall back on the "bashing" and "hate" memes, rather than giving thought to the substance of the post.

It's hard to know whether any of the candidates pay any attention to what is being said here at DU, but telling them, at this early stage, that we'll support them because they're "The Dem," no matter what their policies, is....undemocratic/unDemocratic.

[Perry Logan]

27. I dunno, Nance. Sounds as if you want us to try acting like grown-ups.

[Peggy Day]

30. I think including ALL the candidates is important-they all have

something to bring to the table-but I'd like to know why it seems everyone is excluding candidates in discussions(Edwards and Kucinich just to name two)?

I will probably vote for the Democrat that wins the primary, but it seems like everyone wants to exclude Edwards, and talk like it's between Obama and Clinton-why?

It seems like the media is running the show anymore-trying to give us talking points. If we relied upon them, Kucinich and Edwards and others wouldn't get the time of day.

We all do have different viewpoints, so the more they can discuss the issues, the better for us all.

Like I tell my 20 year old son, I'm on your side!

[MasonJar]

32. Thank you, Nance! I constantly try to convince my fellow DUers that

all our candidates have their good points. I upbraid them to be fair and stop bashing other exemplary dems. We are lucky to have so many dedicated men and woman who are willing to work and sacrifice for our once great nation. Our main job here at DU is to make sure that whichever candidate the majority select is elected!

[wiley]

33. Sad that so many don't listen to anything anymore.

They just want to see a woman named HIllary Clinton be beaten bloodless. Like the townsfolk cornering that cute red fox and encouraging some boy to beat it to death with a bat. That'll get them a higher minimum wage. That will erase decades of neglect and indifference. It will surely feed the poor and finally let them into the club of nine million American families with assets of one million or more dollars. And of course we will get universal health care the first day of the new President's term.

[psychmommy]

34. what's that sound?

well its the voice of reason. don't hear it enough. thanks nance.

[kentuck]

35. My perception was similar to yours...

I thought it may have been one of the worse debates (which is still very good)for Obama. And I thought Hillary had a strong performance. However, like yourself, I understand that different folks perceive debates differently. We don't know really how the majority might perceive last night's debate.

[DeeDeeNY]

36. Keeping an open mind is not easy

We see it with the Kool-Aid drinking Rethuglicans, who look at everything from their slanted point of view and seem unable to digest facts that conflict with their preconceived notions. But it's a little unsettling to see all the back-and-forth candidate insults on DU by people who are usually so much more objective than this.
You are absolutely correct. It's best to look at the big picture and strive to see others' points of view rather than getting caught up in the whole "my guy is better than your guy" thing!

[Apollo11]

37. Sorry - too late to recommend ...

:kick: