Kerry is SUCH a republican!

[mr715]

You know I'm a Kerry supporter. Its because I'm a monsterous conservative and I hate liberty. I just can't stomach how dumb the right wing is, with them saying that Kerry is a liberal. I mean comon, everyone knows Kerry is a conservative.

Sarcasm aside...

Kerry voted with the progressives 100% of the time. Thats pretty liberal, considering that Edwards, Kucinich have lower liberal voting scores (Edwards has 95%, Kucinich has 85%).

Maybe he voted for the PATRIOT Act because there was a real concern that another 2000 Americans would be killed? It isnt Congresses job to protect the American people. Its the job of the President. As such, in a time where we were all a little antsy, he accepted that sacrifices must be made.

The Iraq war was based on lies. He was lied to. And even though he was lied to, he fought damn hard to make sure that Bush did not get war powers without the oversight of Congress if the war proved particularly difficult.

Kerry takes special interest money? Well, yeah. So does Edwards. So does Dean. So does Kucinich. The difference is none of it, none, comes from PACs, and his voting record has been consistent on issues for his tenure in office.

John Kerry has been for a balanced budget when democrats didnt care about it. And now since its the "in thing" and the DLC agrees with him, hes labelled as a Republican-lite?

Sorry, no. John Kerry is a liberal in the best sense of the word. The best thing about it is that he has a shot at winning, and putting a respectable, an honourable, and a brilliant liberal in the White House; securing not just the executive, but the Judiciary for a generation.

Below is the stats on Kerry's votes in the Senate, as of 2003.

National Committee for an Effective Congress

Supports "progressive candidates" that support issues such as freedom of choice, separation of church and state, equal rights and environmental protection.

The following ratings are based on the votes the organization considered most important; the numbers reflect the percentage of time the representative voted the organization's preferred position.

MA U.S. Senate Jr John Forbes Kerry Democrat 100

[tobius]

1. why doesn't Kerry

defend his positions the way you did? At least there would be a line of logic to follow.

[mr715]

2. How do you mean?

Defend what? Defend the Iraq war resolution?

Because he wasnt the one who made the call.

He made his decision as a trustee of the people of MA in the Senate.

He did not invade Iraq, it is not for him to defend himself. He didnt do anything wrong. He now knows the Iraq war was a big farce for political and economic gain, and has taken that stance.

He has taken the stand I articulated on the PATRIOT act.

His environmental record is stellar; better than any candidate save Kucinich.

His choice rating is the highest in the Senate.

[molly]

3. Welcome to DU!

thank goodness for a newbie with intelligence and common sense!

:toast:

[HFishbine]

7. "Iraq war was a big farce for political and economic gain...

and has taken that stance."

Really? I'd like to read where Kerry says as much. Do you have a source?

[tobius]

10. I meant that your post is very clear and maybe it would benefit

Kerry to pick up on some of the things you say--

'Kerry takes special interest money? Well, yeah. So does Edwards. So does Dean. So does Kucinich."

"Kerry voted with the progressives 100% of the time. Thats pretty liberal, considering that Edwards, Kucinich have lower liberal voting scores"

"Maybe he voted for the PATRIOT Act because there was a real concern that another 2000 Americans would be killed? It isnt Congresses job to protect the American people. Its the job of the President. As such, in a time where we were all a little antsy, he accepted that sacrifices must be made.'

He did not invade Iraq, it is not for him to defend himself. { IWR vote }

[Hippo_Tron]

15. It is the job of the Congress to provide the president...

With the necessary resources to protect the American people.

[tobius]

22. I forgot to put the <sarcasm> tag on my post. nt

[jeffsurfus]

12. Have you heard anything he has said....

over the past several months or read any of his material on the website?

The line of logic is to take some time to analyze his positions, to listen to his arguments, and to make an informed decision. Everything that was stated in the original post has been said by Kerry in one form or another over the last few months. Nothing new or earthshattering in the original post.

Give me a break!

[DuctapeFatwa]

4. But isn't Edwards tougher on terror? What's Kerry's answer to Edwards'

neigbor-driven TIPS program?

Sure, we can trust Kerry to get the job done and do what it takes to put down the native insurgency in Iraq, but what about potential terrorists and sleeper cells right here at home?

How does Kerry propose to root them out?

[HFishbine]

5. "Kerry voted with the progressives 100% of the time"

According to who? Link?

[mr715]

6. The National Committee for an Effective Congress.

The National Committee for an Effective Congress.

The source is that group.

Check out www.vote-smart.org

Look up Kerry, then look up interest groups. One says "Liberal" the first one that comes up is the one I cited.

[mr715]

8. Link

Heres the link.

http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_detail.php?sig_id=002554M

Sorry, I'm not good with computers.

[HFishbine]

9. s'alright

Thanks. I appreciate seeing that.

[mr715]

11. Must be said

I also would like to add...

Just because someone is an underdog does not make them virtuous. Just because the DNC likes someone, perhaps because he has a record, perhaps because he risked dying for his country, perhaps because he's in accordance with liberal ideals, does not make him evil incarnate.

The blessing of an organization does not remove a person's morals. Had Wellstone (RIP) ran, instead of Kerry and he got the DNC sticker, would Kerry be any different? Would Kerry be somehow more virtuous?

I'm not saying that Kerry is perfect. God knows I disagree with a lot of stuff he fights for, but he isnt about sound bytes.

A Department of Peace, for example, is a ridiculous notion that appeals to our feelings, how hopes, but not our reason. It is the domain of the Department of State, and honestly, if we need a Federal Executive Department to establish world peace, we need to consider finding a comet to ride back to Planet X on.

Kucinich rocks. I love the guy, and I love what he stands up for now, even if was pretty conservative back in the day. But I live in a world of political reality, where we have to consider what really can happen, what really makes a difference, and who really can get things done.

I want a liberal in the White House. I'll take any democrat save Lieberman. Why have chuck when you can have filet mignon though? Kerry leads the pack not because of any annointment from on high. It is because he is the right combination of thought, history, and action.

[Mairead]

13. Kerry voted with the progressives long ago, but not recently

It was not progressive to vote for the Iraq invasion and massacre.

It was not progressive to vote for the horribly-misacronymed 'Patriot' Act

It was not progressive to vote for NAFTA or the WTO

It is not progressive to support healthcare as a profit center

It is not progressive to support imperialism


So if you're really in favor of liberal and progressive ideals, I'd suggest you switch your support to Kucinich or Sharpton, because Kerry's liberal history is just that: history.

[sangh0]

14. Wrong on all counts

1) Plenty of progressives, Kerry included, voted for IWR.

2) Every progressive Senator but one voted for PATRIOT. Plenty of progressives in the House also voted for it

3) Progressivism is NOT opposed to trade. It is opposed to laissez-faire trade, aka "Free Trade" Again, plenty of progressives supported NAFTA. As with the other issues you list, it was not nearly as one-sided as you portray it

4) I'll give you that one.

5) Kerry doesn't support imperialism. And if a vote for IWR demonstrates support for imperialism, then there are plenty of progressives who support imperialism

Just as many liberals on this board seem think that they are the base of the Democratic Party, you too make the mistake of thinking your ideas are shared by everyone who identifies as a progressive.

[IrateCitizen]

20. sangh0/sangha -- it's not proper to interchange "liberal" with...

... "progressive" the way that is being done in regards to this thread.

Kerry joined many other liberals in voting for the IWR, and supporting NAFTA, and host of other charges being levied solely against him. However, last time I checked these were all things that the Progressives (who are much more of a minority than "liberals") fought against, for the most part.

A good contrast between these two philosophies that are similar in many ways but have stark differences is to examine how Kerry, a liberal, is a member of the New Democrats Network. There are many other liberals in the Senate who are in NDN/DLC as well. But peruse the rolls of the House Progressive Caucus, and you will not find a single person who is a member of NDN/DLC.

[sangh0]

23. I agree with you

I'm just trying to speak the same language as the poster I'm responding to.

[Scott Lee]

27. Kerry's as progressive as George Patton.

[WitchWay]

29. ...as for the IWR vote

Progressives don't let progressives vote for war.

[Scott Lee]

30. He can try to nuance that one all he wants

But we know what happened. John kerry, Bush enabler.

[WitchWay]

33. Yeah, I'm starting to think there's a lot of bush enablers

out there in the dem party...
I found this news article:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4372246/
anyone care to decipher?

[ldoolin]

32. Nope

There is only one progressive in the Senate and he is Russ Feingold. Kerry is a liberal, not a progressive.

[mr715]

16. I reiterate

Iraq - voted for given lies. Is now opposed to it.

PATRIOT Act - voted for to protect American lives knowing that it would expire.

NAFTA/WTO - Pushed by a democratic president and there is no reason to believe that globalization is inherently evil.

Healthcare - the only possible way to preserve incentives is to provide for profits. It works for Darwin, it works for Adam Smith, it works for the USA.

Imperialism - America isnt evil.

Once again, I draw a distinction between what "sounds good" and what "works".

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

17. what "sounds good" and what "works".

People here are addicted to what sounds good..

Thanks for the post and the thread. You are now the enemy of DU but for a few of us. Look forward to being called an evil corporatist, BFEE loving, Skull and Bones ass kissing war apologist. You are now a target of the war of the adjectives.

[mr715]

18. Interesting you should bring that up.

I share with George Bush and John Kerry the fraternity thing too.

Maybe someday I'll be President.

But I guess I'm too conservative :hippie:

[Exgeneral]

25. NSMA, you adjective adjective adjective

All's I know is what I adjective

21. policies

"Imperialism - America isnt evil."

However, some of America's policies and actions are evil.

capital A America.

I won't bother listing specifics. It's not really necessary is it?

[Scott Lee]

28. True an all counts

I'm glad someone is not fooled by Senator Botox.

[Scott Lee]

19. Kerry's record has Bush enabling written all over it

It has been posted in here hundreds of times, obviously slipping underneath the perception of the Kerry drone. But here are the highlights. Botox supported Bush-hole on:

The Iraq War

No Child Left Behind

Both Patriot Acts

Now on ANWR drilling

NAFTA

Dehumanization of the Palestinians


The list grows daily. Kerrytox is clearly a slightly democratic version of George W Bush.

[AP]

24. Would Kerry's votes "with the liberals" include free trade votes?

I can see how Edwards voting for protecting jobs might lower his "voting with the liberals" ranking if they did.

Edwards has voted against Bush more than anyone. I think that's the best measure of voting records, personally.

[Scott Lee]

26. He sure is.

[ldoolin]

31. Kerry voted for:

NAFTA
GATT
Hatch Juvenile Justice Act
Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act
1994 Crime Bill
No Child Left Behind
Iraq War Resolution
Digital Millennium Copyright Act
Homeland Security Act

Kerry has not voted the progressive position as much as he should have.

[DrFunkenstein]

34. You Are Very Well Researched, Now How About His Good Votes?

Surely you weren't just looking for information to discredit Kerry. What else did you come up with? Anything about, say, Clean Elections or CAFE standards? How about the Kerry Amendment to NAFTA?

[ldoolin]

36. Oh, that's just what was on the top of my head

And to be fair, most other Democrats voted for those things too.

Russ Feingold and Paul Wellstone voted against most of them. That's the difference between a liberal and a progressive.

[Monument]

35. AMEN BROTHER! FUNNY POST

Kerry could only be considered a republican by people who frequent sites like this one.