The more I hear from Kerry's supporters, the less I like him.

[Dhalgren]

I keep saying over and over again, "Vote for the Democrat in Nov. - vote for the Democrat in Nov." "Ham sandwich", "yellow dog", "lump on a stump" - whatever you like, "I will vote for the Democrat in Nov."

But the more I hear from Kerry's 'Centrist' (i.e. right-wing) followers the harder and harder it is to make myself do it. They will say "What do you want 4 more years of Bush?" No, I don't and after listening to Kerry supporters here on this board, that's becoming the very reason why I'm having more and more trouble with voting for Kerry. If the president is going to be a snivling, pro-coporate, imperialist, status quo-er, I would rather he were a Republican -at least we wouldn't share in the Republican quilt over all these crimes. And I know, "it's the Supreme Court, stupid!" But what kind of judges will Kerry be able to put on the bench? With a Republican majority in the Senate, he won't get his choice, anyway. Man, all I am saying is that Kerry's supporters, here, may turn out to be his worst enemies.

[Dookus]

1. I know

they should show the same grace the Dean supporters showed when he was the frontrunner.

If they did, the Dean supporters would be gone, shrieking inrage, and this site would be worthwhile again.

[JVS]

16. Or act like the Clark-bar astroturfers

That would have helped.

[tameszu]

45. Whatever

Last time I checked, astroturfers don't stick around and make donations to the site they're turfing to build community.

[JVS]

68. Most of them are gone now. But they did exist

[BL_Zebub]

69. Well, that could be because

some of the alleged "Clarkies" never really supported Clark in the first place. I'm not in the Clark camp and I can tell the difference.

Bottom line is that the hostilities in this place picked up right about the time OXYRush started giving us free advertising. (I play the Limbaugh show here in Hell to torture the more liberal among the damned). And it's funny that a lot of people showed up right around then wearing Clark tags and seemed to not so much promote Clark as they did to disrespect other candidates. Guess which tag that group is wearing now?

Now of course the Devil cannot prove they were Limbaugh listeners. For all I know, they could merely be DLC operatives as opposed to "actual" Republicans. As I said, I can tell the difference, but I will mention no names, of course. I trust that the true Clark faithful can weed out the interlopers in their own ranks :evilgrin:

[JVS]

80. Remember the time one was saying that Serbian children deserved to die?

That was classic! :eyes:

[KoKo]

85. Yes,much to say about your observation.....as I've observed it, myself.

:evilgrin: or :-( .......

[sangha]

21. Is that sarcasm?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=134323&mesg_id=135457&page=

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=49540#49573

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=49540#49595

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=49540#49652

I've got more if you want

[Dookus]

28. Yes, it was

My point is that the Dean supporters were so god-awful back in November and December that they're just reaping what they sowed.

A true case of instant Karma.

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dookus]

74. LOL

sorry... the 'tude started back in the fall when MY guy, Clark, joined the race and was attacked mercilessly by a group of Dean supporters. The same ones are now bitching about Kerry.

This is politics. If you don't like the 'tude, then find a fluffy bunny website to amuse yourself with.

[Dhalgren]

70. Just to clarify, there are actually people on this board

that do not actively support Kerry, Ewards, or Dean and never have. Just an FYI.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BruinAlum]

3. Then vote for Nader or stay home.

And the more pissing and moaning and mean spiritedness I hear from Kerry haters the less sympathy I have for the whining.

Take this for example.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=401759&mesg_id=401759

[Dhalgren]

55. Yeah, this shows how wrong the original post was, right?

[RetroLounge]

72. Wow, that's like the 5th link you've posted to that thread.

I wonder who's post got deleted in post 11?

[jpgray]

4. So you base your support on what other people tell you to do?

[Dhalgren]

24. Of course, don't you?

[rucky]

27. I guess I do too, then.

[jpgray]

42. No. I'm voting Kucinich in my caucus. (nt)

[waldenx]

5. those are probably

the Clark supporters who switched to Kerry.
They don't know how to communicate with other humans without bullying and demanding obedience.

[Nashyra]

47. I don't thinks so

Clark was pummeled here by quite a few when he got in the race. It seems to mean a pattern has emerged on DU when your guy is ahead or doing well there is a piling on by everyone else, when your candidate is doing poorly it's an all out pissing contest on the candidate you think is hurting yours. Well it goes without reason that it is all pile on Kerry and his supporters because he is the front runner and the worst offenders are the Edwards people because at this point they have the most to loose. There is more bad blood to go around because 2 od the candidates that were extremely motivated have dropped out.

[hlthe2b]

6. well, as one who typcially stays out of GD2004....

I think you are getting a more militant set of responders and not hearing from more moderate DUers....

Having said that, please don't judge me by either my enemies nor well-intentioned supporters! Because, I have no control over either.....

[EXE619K]

7. Stop complaining!

Vote for Nader!

:D

[sadiesworld]

8. Gee, I've never been called a right-winger before...

that hurt.

[buckeye1]

9. So don't vote for him. n/t

[revcarol]

10. Ditto.

But as much as they harrass, I am MORE determined to make up my own mind.
that ignore function is WONDERFUL.

[MAlibdem]

11. I dont appreciate being called right-wing

On my soccer team, when someone pisses us off, we say "Vete a tomar por culo, amigo."

I say it in spanish class too, lol. Anyways.

[still_one]

12. Hey you know what the choices are

You don't like it, then deal with the results. Aren't we are all mature enough to accept that. Nothing is ever perfect

[59millionmorons]

13. Then vote for Nader or Dean

Good grief.

[rockymountaindem]

14. I won't say those things.

I do support Kerry over the rest. However, I like the others as well and I won't insult your intelligence by asking if you want another 4 years of Bush*. If you don't vote for Kerry you're admitting that you want 4 more years of Bush* without my asking the question!

Just kidding.

Seriously, those questions are dumb. I know that we all have the same goal, but we just have different (and equally valid, for the most part) ideas on how to achieve it. When it comes to our party, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. All arguments and opinions should be treated respectfully.

I hope that makes you feel better about the Kerry camp.

[blm]

15. I wouldn't like Kerry either if I was mistaking him for a centrist.

But, I LOVE him because he has the highest lifetime liberal ratings of all the candidates. 95% over 19 years is even higher than Dennis Kucinich's record.

He is also the person who has exposed more government corruption than any lawmaker in modern history, and that matters to me ALOT.

I haven't read alot of the posts lately, but it's hard to imagine he's being supported by centrists here at DU. Most liberals I know have been waiting decades to vote for Kerry.

[Dhalgren]

31. This, I think, was the original point of my post.

I was just too inept to put it across well. I have disagreed with many of Kerry's stands since the 2000 coup. But, I am also well aware of his very good voting record in the passt and his Vietnam and post-Vietnam days were a big plus for him with me. But suddenly all of these very right-wing Kerry supporters pop up and are so strident in their dismissal of progressive ideals that I begain to look at the last 4 years voting record in a new light. I begain to look more closely at all of his statements and could see where centrist/right folks could see Kerry as their own. It has given me pause - that's all.

also- I know that "all" Kerry supporters are not "centrist/right", many are very liberal and progressive and I do not include those folks in my ham-handed diatribes. Thank you

[MAlibdem]

34. Beep beep beep beep - Indefensible slander backing up

Ah revising your position when you deeply offend many people...fun stuff

[Dhalgren]

38. Show where I reversed.

Just like your candidate, I just "clarified". :7

[MAlibdem]

46. It's a matter of inflection, i suppose

which isn't possible in text

either you read the sentence:

But the more I hear from KERRY'S 'Centrist' (i.e. right-wing) followers the harder and harder it is to make myself do it.

or

But the more I hear from Kerry's 'CENTRIST' (i.e. right-wing) followers the harder and harder it is to make myself do it.

I read it the first way, that all kerry's supporters, and the candidate himself, are centrist. Based on people's reaction to the post, i think most people did as well.

[Dhalgren]

49. Yeah, like I said "inept" and "ham-handed". I would like to

express myself better than I do, but after 50 years of talking way too much, I didn't think I will probably ever improve.

[MAlibdem]

59. Fair enough

But i still dunno who these centrist/rightwing people are.

I could believe liberals in kerry's camp asking for unity, i just dont think so many centrists are dedicated to his campaign at the DU level. With the possible exception of Joe-Mentum*, centrists never strike me as a particularly passionate bunch.




*To be fair, all Lieberman supporters i've met have been very nice people, albeit very anti-Dean

[movonne]

17. Why can't we all stick together..I will vote democrat whomever it is

although Kerry was not my first choice. The reason the rebugs get what they want they are all on the same page...Vote Republican.

[quinnox]

18. sounds like Nader might be a good choice for you

And try to get your facts straight, I am a liberal and a Kerry backer and Kerry is about as liberal as they come.

The "everyone who doesn't support Dean is a republican" theme was over long ago.

[Dhalgren]

35. I have never - repeat - never supported Dean, thanks though.

.

[redqueen]

19. You're the 15th person I've heard say EXACTLY THIS

That if we're going to (fill in the blank) anyway, it might as well be a republican in charge to screw things up more.

Not going to argue about the accuracy / validity. Just wanted to point out you're not the only person thinking along these lines.

[Dookus]

simply

evidence that any bad idea can gain a foothold among the petulant.

[redqueen]

32. Maybe so, but insulting them will not solve the problem.

:shrug:

[sangha]

37. What problem?

The 15 DUers who won't vote for Kerry?

Not much of a problem, if you ask me

[redqueen]

60. Please

You think that because you only know of one person on a message board and 15 down in Texas (not on a message board, but nice assumption), that that's the extent of the sentiment?

[sangha]

64. Please yourself

My arms don't reach down into Texas, and I really don't see a problem. Almoat everyone on my block (in a Republican neighborhood) is voting for Kerry, and I'm more than happy to trade for all of their votes by giving up on demonstrating the obvious to the oblivious few on the fringe

[Dookus]

40. I'm not interested in solving the problem....

because it can't be solved. Some Dean supporters were such shits when Dean was the presumptive nominee, and now that he's not, they're still being shits.

No amount of niceness, begging, cajoling or bribes will change their minds. They're upset their guy lost, and they're gonna whine about it come hell or high water. I have no interest in playing along with their games.

If people are so stupid as to decide their vote based on what strangers say on the internet, they're too far gone for me to have any effect.

[Dhalgren]

48. What has Dean got to do with it? I have never supported Dean.

[Forkboy]

56. It's an automated response

kind of like a form letter.

[Dhalgren]

58. I sure shows that the original post was dead wrong though, uhn?

[redqueen]

61. This is not about Dean, this is about Kerry

The people I'm talking about whom I know personally are not even rabid left-wingers. They're Clinton lovers for the most part and we disagree about that, but they also for some reason perceive that if Kerry wins and the war gets worse, then the democrats will shoulder the blame for 'screwing it up'.

I don't know for sure if this extends beyond the 15 people in my personal circle of friends and this one poster on this message board, but I would think that those who support Kerry would consider it something to be at least a teensy bit concerned about if there is indication that this isn't the end of it.

Or he can just do as some of his supporters on here do, blithely dismiss them all... at what cost we won't know until Nov.

[emulatorloo]

20. I think you are over-generalizing the actions of a very very very very few

and to tell you the truth I have only seen one or two negative posters.

I never held the opinions of negative posters on an internet board against any of the candidates.

In fact, I am willing to believe that some of the really negative posters are just GOP operatives trying to "Divide and Conquer" by pissing the camps off at each other.

On the other hand, your characterization of JK as "snivling, pro-coporate, imperialist, status quo-er" doesn't see like you are very open minded about JK. If all his supporters were super nice and really handsome, would you really feel differently?

Thanks. . . .

[xxqqqzme]

22. went 2 a Democratic club

meeting last night - supporters of each candidate spoke - a ret. judge spoke supporting kerry. He must have repeated @ least 8 times how smart he is 2 the point I was wondering 'why does he keep saying that?' Then every program he outlined belonged 2 another candidate first. Plus the guy yammered on & on & on & on & on....oh yea did tell U how smart he is? And this is a receptive group...???

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

23. Don't know who you mean by right wing supporters

but some of us got fatigued from trying over the bellicose assertions that only ONE person can save America.

Re; The Supreme Court..with a Dem president they won't get THEIR nomination either.

Insofar as sniveling, pro-corporatist, imperialist...there's just nothing to respond to..if you'd like to offer specifics..I'll be happy to do my best.

If supporting a guy that has a mostly liberal record with a few bad votes makes me a right winger..then I am just stumped...

[littlejoe]

25. I guess the truth hurts.

[Forkboy]

26. There's plenty of reasons to not like Kerry

without even bringing in his supporters to the equation.

[ibegurpard]

77. Absolutely

eom

[w13rd0]

29. Kerry's enthusiastic supporters...

...cover the spectrum of possibilities, from those with an arrogant sense of entitlement to those deluded about his Everything to Everyone manner of "consensus building" to those that man the lines in advancing the "Vote for Kerry, he's not Bush" reasoning. Every candidate has some sucky supporters, and those "riding high" tend to do their worst to shoot down anyone trying to climb up that mountain. It isn't their fault their piss and vinegar flows downhill.

[Hobarticus]

30. Pick the lesser of two evils, I guess.

Bush or Kerry. It's pretty obvious to me.

[orwell]

33. Transference

Kerry's supporters are not John Kerry.

Before we all take the Rove kool-aid maybe you should read his stance on issues.

http://www.johnkerry.com/

This November you can vote for President John Kerry, not his supporters.

0

[BL_Zebub]

78. If you want to know where Kerry stands

Look at his voting record for the last 3 years. For all of his so called "liberalism", he sure didn't vote for it. Nor did he encourage his fellow congressional Dems to stand strong against a razor thin majority of 'Pukes. Shit, thanks to the conscience of Jim Jeffords, they even had a razor thin majority half that time and they STILL voted with the Repukes??

THIS is the guy you expect to save you from Bush??

[orwell]

81. Projection

I don't expect anyone to "save me" as you put it.

I don't think Kerry is a "liberal." I'm not even sure that we would agree what the term "liberal" means. I define it in the classical sense.

I don't want to put words in your mouth as you have mine, so I will ask you if you think there is any difference between the Kerry worldview and the Bush worldview?

As I do, I will vote for Kerry, (or Edwards, or Kucinich if they are the Dem nominees.)

O

[bigtree]

36. You are awful sure of yourself in labeling folks right-wing

Such arrogance! What the hell do you actually know about these posters you disagree with? Not much. You take your own cynical view and smear it over those here you disagree with. That is the same "you're either with us or against us" discrimination that you decry.

[duvinnie]

39. what I hear from Kerry supporters

is just what you would expect from a centrist position - a whole lot of talk
designed to please everybody. until november that is.
After all this time, I still have no idea where Kerry stands on anything, or
who he really is.

No way am I voting *, but Kerry's position on American foreign policy uses
practically the same language in parts as the Progressive Policy Institute
position papers. His policy appears to depend on, if not being a derivative
of, the PPI think tank. Very disturbing - essentially what I'd call a "compassionate
neo-con" posture.

And we're supposed to take our country back for these kinds of folks? please.

[lastknowngood]

41. It doesn't matter Kerry is a 48 state loser anyway don't waste

your time on him or his "supporters" work to elect local congress people who have progressive ideas and ignore the prez it's already over.

[edzontar]

43. I agree with you. It's a bit of a broad brush, and some are fine, but

I too have noticed, and commented, upon, th eall too frequent meanness, impatience, cruelty, dismissivness, inquisitional tone, lack of humor, and overall intolerance expressed by some voices here in the name of the Kerry candidacy.

I don't understand it, but there it is.

[Evil_Dewers]

44. Man, all I am saying is that Kerry's supporters, here, may turn out to be

Hey, you should vote for Nader (Bush), since Kerry is no better than Bush and Ralphie said there's no difference between the two major parties. Of course, Ralphie said that before Bush invaded Iraq under false pretenses (lies) and killed 550 Americans (so far) and wasted $150 billion (so far), presided over the 9/11 disaster (LIHOP), presided over the worst jobs losses since Herbert Hoover (3 million lost), racked up another $1 trillion in debt, and is currently running a record $550 billion deficit. I was a Deanie who will be working for and voting for Kerry--just like Howard Dean will.

[littlejoe]

51. Thank you. That's all I can ask.

[Dhalgren]

53. Thanks for straightening me out.

[littlejoe]

50. Then don't vote for him. But it will be on your head if he loses

in November.

[w13rd0]

67. no it won't...

...if he loses by more than one vote, you can't possibly blame it on me alone. So quit trying to set the DLCs stage for further rightwing pushes under the guise of righting their failure, you aren't allowed to blame anyone other than yourself if your "electable" candidate gets hammered.

[mitchum]

52. What kind of pathetic twits form their opinions about a candidate...

from the comments of anonymous message board posters? Unfuckingbelievable.

BTW: Thanks for the blanket condemnation, but not all Kerry supporters are centrists.

[HawkerHurricane]

54. Funny...

That's what I was feeling about Dean supporters back in December. I didn't mind Dean too much, even though he wasn't my favorite... but many of his supporters annoyed the hell out of me. Not enough to make me change my vote... but enough to not want to vote Dean in the Primary.

My Primary is Tuesday. My Retirement is Monday. It's shaping up into a wierd week.

[Zolok]

57. I know how you feel...

Dean's on line supporters were a shrill self agrandizing bunch back in the day....I formed a low opinion of their candidate based on what I read on the internet.
Then I met a few fuh' real in N.H. on primary day...seemed like nice pleasant people....which just goes to show you the internet is a perfidious form of self expression sometimes.
Everyone comes off like an a-hole.
The problem is, when someone becomes the front runner that they inherit the party's history tradition and the whole range of it's ideology...so it's inevitable that they are called "right wing" or "centrists".
Look back at the 1972 democratic primaries with N.Y.C. mayor John Lindsay calling front runner George McGovern a centrist and all like that.
:)
www.chimesatmidnight.blogspot.com

[Dhalgren]

63. There is a lot to be said for your comments

I was really put off of Dean by the aditude of his supporters, too. I mean, I would have voted for him in Nov. - pretty much like I will vote for any Dems in Nov., but his supporters made me look at him more closely and I didn't really like all that much that I saw. This is what is happening with Kerry's "centrist/right" supporters. (And I am not saying all Kerry supporters). These particular supporters are attacking progressive ideals and liberal policy stands in such a way that it makes me look more closely at Kerry's statements and past 4 years and, hey, maybe these guys are right, maybe Kerry isn't as liberal as he once was. I would rather, though, that he were.

[Uzybone]

62. Pray tell

who are the "right wing" Kerry supporters?

[Dhalgren]

66. Well the ones who write posts in a effort to defend Kerry's

various Bush supporting votes and less than progressive statements and who in the process wind up defending Bush. I think anyone who reads the posts will recognize them - I won't name names (I feel just like Dalton Trumbo!)

[emulatorloo]

71. C'mon, more hints please. . .

guess I am just not paying attention.

OTOH couldn't these "Kerry Supporters" be "divide and conquer" gop operatives trying to divide the various camps here?

and OTOH I have seen some posters turn Kerry's vote on IWR into an almost full *vindication* of Bush. Which makes me wonder . . . .

[Dhalgren]

73. Man! You have quite the mind, there!

I had not thought of so underhanded a Rovian tactic as to push hard on any similarities between Bush and Kerry, so as to alienate the progressives! Kudos, 'loo, kudos.

[thingfish]

75. Who do you want to run the country? Chomsky?

Seriously, what do you want?!

[KoKo]

86. Someone Real, Real, Real........Really REAL.......Really, Really Real!

That would do just fine, imho. :-)'s

[R3dD0g]

76. That was my exact reaction to Dean folks on here. n/t

[Meshuga]

79. Funny because the more I hear from Kerry supporters...

The more I like him! :-)

[incapsulated]

82. I don't know. Is it me?

I've been following politics for decades. During all that time Kerry was catagorized as a superliberal, so liberal in fact that he was considered unelectable.

Now that he's on his way to the nomination, he has suddenly transformed from a liberal with too much Viet Nam era hippy baggage, to some right wing corporatist imperialist pig.

Strange Days.


Well, you have good taste in books, anyways.
 
 

[sangha]

83. Maybe it's our breath

OK, Kerryfans. Let's hold our breath and see if the mood changes

[zoeyfong]

84. Ditto.