Hillary's pollster says Hispanics may be reluctant to support a black candidate.

[jefferson_dem]

Racial Tensions a Potential Boost For Clinton

Saturday, January 12th,

Hispanics may be reluctant to support a black candidate.

Clinton pollster Sergio Bendixen: “The Hispanic voter—and I want to say this very carefully—has not shown a lot of willingness or affinity to support black candidates.”

http://thepage.time.com/2008/01/12/racial-tensions-a-potential-boost-for-clinton/

[Buzz Clik]

1. As I understand it, Hispanic pollsters do not support Hillary.

It's complicated.

[Colobo]

2. That's completely true. I'm Latino, and I know that very well...

I happen to be a BLACK latino, and I know how things work in that regard both in Latin America and here.

Obama will not win the Hispanic vote in the primaries, and he might lose some in the GE to the Republican candidate.

[sufrommich]

7. What is the cause of this...

If you don't mind me asking?

[Colobo]

9. I'll be back soon and will gladly explain it.

[martymar64]

71. Latinos can be just as racist as whites

Ever heard the spanish term "mallate"?

Latin America is rife with racism against black people. They're on the pecking order just above Indians.

[TriMetFan]

21. Yep you are so right.

As a Latino too I know what you mean. Now can you just imagine if we latinos didn't looked at skin color and we united, there would be no stopping us.

[Essene]

48. Depends on what latino community you're talking about. Take NYC. Racial generalizations dont help

Puerto Ricans and Domincans HAVE voted for black candidates here and would do so again.

While there are racial tensions, it's absurd to pretend that latinos do not and will not vote for black candidates.

[TriMetFan]

54. I never said that Latinos would not vote

for a African America. But there is and will be racial tensions in the latino community, until we learn to over come it. That is why I said that until we latinos learn not to look at skin color we will never be able to unite. Now just think how much power we would have, if we did. there would be no stopping us.

[Essene]

78. Agreed

[sandnsea]

76. It's inappropriate to use this to scare voters

For every hispanic voter that won't vote for a black man, there's another who will be drawn to Obama over his faith and strong family and work in low income communities.

[Jai4WKC08]

79. No, not "for every hispanic voter... there's another..."

Obviously not ALL Hispanics will refuse to vote for Obama. But there is polling data to suggest that more will not than will. In some states, it may only take a few percentage points to determine who "wins" a primary or caucus. I'm not sure it will make so much difference in who gets how many delegates, except perhaps in California where there are so many delegates up for grabs and such a large number of voting Hispanics.

I chalk it up to three reasons.

1) Hispanics TEND to be lower than non-Hispanic whites on the socio-economic spectrum. That means less less education on average. I think you will find poor whites are more likely to be overtly prejudiced than their wealthier and more educated counterparts, for much the same reason.

2) There is more tension between between Hispanics and blacks because they TEND to live in close-by urban communities and to compete for the same jobs and resources. I remember growing up in the South that poor whites were far more concerned about losing their jobs to blacks, and on a cultural level, what little social standing they had as well -- it's probably a fact of human nature that it's not as bad to be down if you can point to someone further down than you.

3) Hispanics TEND to be more recent immigrants that other ethnic groups. When they come from nations where there are no black people, or very few, there is often more prejudice. That may be why, as someone observed above, there is less prejudice among Puerto Rican Americans in NY than in other parts of the country. Puerto Rico has more black Hispanics that most other Latino populations. But even then, I have been assured by Puerto Ricans I knew in the Army that there is indeed a lot of prejudice based on color. I used to date a guy who told me that his brother was treated far better, even within their own family, because he had lighter skin. Anecdotal, I know, and possibly shaded by sibling rivalry. But it's still the way he sincerely felt.

[sandnsea]

80. It's just more race baiting and I'm fed up with it n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. Is That An Empirical Observation Or A Normative One

If it is the former I don't see how a fair person can criticize him for making it...

[Colobo]

5. It's reality, man. I'm behind Obama, but I know my community well enough.

[jefferson_dem]

10. Let's stipulate that is true.

Let's also stipulate that campaigns seek strategic advantages during an election season.

Let's also stipulate that the upcoming states have a larger Hispanic population than either IA or NH.

Doesn't this provide insight into the recent "racialization" of the Democratic nomination contest? As you have said before, "who benefits"?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. I Also Think The "Prejudice" Angle Can Be Overplayed

Bill Clinton was tremendously popular in the Hispanic community...He received 72% of the Hispanic vote in 1996... I think that's the high water mark for Democrats at the nat'l level...

[jefferson_dem]

19. You argued that what the pollster said is simply a truism.

Doesn't it stand to reason, therefore, that Hillary's camp would benefit if the contest become more racialized?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. They Would Be Benefiting From A Natural Phenomenon

Kind of like Jed Clampett when he went hunting, shot in the ground, and came with some crude:


http://www.barbneal.com/wav/tvthemes/bhbilly1.wav

[dailykoff]

58. The culinary workers union in Nevada is largely hispanic.

Guess who they're backing?

[Zynx]

61. There was a lot of division within the union.

If you read the reports closely you would know that.

[dailykoff]

63. They also endorsed Obama the day after Hill "won" NH

as did their parent union:

"The group's parent organization, UNITE HERE, with 460,000 food service, gaming and other workers nationwide, also expressed support for Obama, the Illinois senator who is hoping to become America's first black president."

http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSN0961529720080109

Apparently the union is 45% hispanic. I'd say that bodes well for Obama.

[Zynx]

65. All of those union endorsements sure did Dean and Gephardt a lot of good.

[dailykoff]

66. Well, we're talking about hispanic voters

and the culinary workers are a largely hispanic union in a largely hispanic state, and they put the kibosh on Hillary. I'm sure she'll still get the Goldwater vote.

[Zynx]

67. I think Obama will win the Nevada Caucus, but it won't be by virtue of

a groundswell of Hispanic support.

[JackORoses]

81. it also explains why Richardson made his exit before even getting to these states

Hillary needed those votes.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. duplicate

~

[Sarah Ibarruri]

6. Okay, somebody at the H. Clinton campaign is not thinking properly.

Hispanics throughout Latin America and even South America are people who are so blended with African (due to slavery having been perhaps less savage in those countries than here), that you can never say with certainty they aren't black. Sheesh what lunacy these primaries are!

[Colobo]

8. Sarah... do you think that matters?

The fact that many Latin Americans are racially mixed doesn't mean jack. I can give you so many examples that would ilustrate that but I'm gonna have breakfast. I'll come back later and give them to you if you like.

I mean, I personally know about this. I have know about this since I was born.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

11. I think we should ask Chicanos. I know some Cubans try to pretend they're not black....

... even if they're black as the night itself. lol Chicanos would vote for anyone, since they're always the ones most kicked around by the Repukes.

[Colobo]

17. Chicanos? LOL! Sarah... please...

[Sarah Ibarruri]

20. I like Chicanos. I'm not one, but I like them. And they're pro-union.

I'm sure Edwards is their first choice. However, I don't know they'll vote for Hillary Clinton. Do you think?

[Marrah_G]

30. Can someone explain the term Chicanos to me?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. Ha

First of all race is a social construct...

Now that we have dispensed of that there's lots of empirical and anecdotal information that suggests there is tension bewtween some African Americans, Hispanics, and Asians,ergo:

Broadly, the poll of 1,105 African-American, Asian-American and Hispanic adults found that the predominantly immigrant populations - Hispanics and Asians - expressed far greater optimism about their lives in America, concluding that hard work is rewarded in this society. By contrast, more than 60% of the African Americans polled do not believe the American Dream works for them. Blacks also described themselves as more segregated from the rest of America than the other groups.

The poll found that friction between ethnic and racial groups, which at times has erupted into highly-publicized incidents around the country, is clearly rooted in the mistrust that the groups harbor towards each other, as well as the sentiment that other groups are mistreating them or are detrimental to their own future. For instance, 44% of Hispanics and 47% of Asians are “generally afraid of African Americans because they are responsible for most of the crime.” Meanwhile, 46% of Hispanics and 52% of African Americans believe “most Asian business owners do not treat them with respect.” And half of African Americans feel threatened by Latin American immigrants because “they are taking jobs, housing and political power away from the Black community.”

Moreover, the three groups seem more trusting of whites than of each other. The poll found that 61% of Hispanics, 54% of Asians and 47% of African Americans would rather do business with whites than members of the other two groups.

“The poll reaffirms that while race relations between ethnic groups and whites grab the headlines, there are also serious racial problems between minority groups in America,” said Sergio Bendixen, who is an expert on Hispanic and multilingual polling. “Blacks feel they are left out of the American Dream and are being displaced by newcomers, and each group buys into the negative stereotypes about the other two. What’s clear is the need to dissolve this friction. The poll results show that the overwhelming majority of ethnic Americans want that positive outcome.”

http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=28501933d0e5c5344b21f9640dc13754

[Sarah Ibarruri]

22. That's scary. Did you know that the last president of Cuba (before Castro), was black?

Well, he was more black than white, anyway. If those stats are right, it's F'd up!!!

[TriMetFan]

29. Yes you are right

that a lot of us Latinos have African in us. But there is this undertone of discrimination at darker color skin latinos.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

37. However, there are more men that will not vote for a woman (H. Clinton) than Latins that won't vote

for a black individual (Barack Obama).

[TriMetFan]

57. If you think so.

That is your right.

[IndianaGreen]

14. There is racism and lotsa homophobia in the Latino community

Why doesn't the Hillary camp play the "MARICON" card while they are playing the racist card, shoot two birds with one shot?

BTW, in Latin America it is the lilly white descendants of Europeans that compose the ruling elites, while those of mixed race that make the bulk of the population. Hillary's stealth racism may play well with the Venezuelan elites, but not with the masses.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. MARICON

Did Hillary call somebody a f-g?

Has Hillary tried to exploit homophobia?

[IndianaGreen]

27. Just as Bill Clinton used coded racist language in his interview with Charlie Rose

a point which I wrote about and posted in DU at the time (comparing him to Orval Faubus), it is a trademark of the Clintons to sacrifice the LGBTs for political expediency, such as when Bill Clinton told John Kerry to play the "marriage = one man, one woman" card to gain some votes. Kerry refused!

The Clintons are not racists, but they will use racism if it promotes their goal of taking power again. The Clintons only believe in the Clintons, a personality trait they share with the Bushes.

[wyldwolf]

15. that's statistically true, but you're not allowed to hurt the tender feelings of Obamanation here.

[Colobo]

18. wyld, I know it's true and I don't deny it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. I Love All People

~

[cali]

26. OK, Katz

but was it necessary for the pollster to state this publically? What would his motivation be? If Obama's pollster made a similar remark about some group not wanting to vote for Clinton because of her gender, what would you think?

[antiimperialist]

23. it's a HILLARY pollster for God's sake. Let's hear an independent pollster say it n/t

[BeyondGeography]

25. Divide, divide, divide

all so we can get the same two people back in the White House again.

Excuse me for not seeing the point.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

35. The Pollster Made An Empirical Observation Not A Normative One

Is he supposed to ignore the research?

[jefferson_dem]

40. I think he knows the research. Hillary's campaign follows suit to seek advantage accordingly.

nt

[BeyondGeography]

44. For Clinton's sake, he should keep his mouth shut

Everyone knows of these tensions, the point for people who purport to be our leaders is to try to resolve, not inflame. You see a quote like this and the next day Hilly is talking guacamole and chips with Hispanics and she comes off looking like the small-minded opportuinist that she is.

[cali]

55. Why was he highlighting it?

What was the point of doing so?

[kurth]

28. Latin America has a history of discrimination against darker-skinned people

Some Hispanics can be worse racists than the KKK.

[TriMetFan]

34. How true.

[antiimperialist]

36. Some hispanics? How many hispanics are worse than the KKK? n/t

What percentage of the Hispanics you know advocate segregation and lynching?

[Colobo]

41. Man... you don't understand.

[IndianaGreen]

38. The Venezuelan elites that Hillary supports are all lilly white European blooded

while the vast mass of Chavez's supporters are of mixed blood, like him.

[Zynx]

59. I've read enough about it and talked to lots of people from the region

to know this is exactly true. Nothing short of stunning.

[suston96]

31. Hillary's pollster? Pollster? And we are believing this pollster because....?

[goldcanyonaz]

33. I'm actually surprised that they're looking at supporting a woman. One step at a time, I guess.

[Colobo]

39. In Latin America

Women > Blacks > Indians.

[goldcanyonaz]

43. Do you see this changing any time soon? What can be done, if anything?

Thank you.

[Colobo]

46. No, won't change anytime soon.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

47. While You're Here Tell Me If This Is True

My best friend when I was growing up was from Ponce... He said if you wanted to insult a Puerto Rican you would call him "Cuban"

Is that true and why?

[Marrah_G]

53. Because racism and nationalism is not limited to white America

It is a human trait- one that America and the world is trying to over-come. I bekieve it is biological and deeply set in the cultures of the world. Change is slow.

[LaReservaPr]

62. Because

Ponce is Ponce and the rest is parking space...(Its an old saying, I'm from Ponce)

Its some odd cultural thing that i cant really explain. Dominicans are thought of as dumb, and Cubans "talk a lot of shit". Although there is a certain solidarity that exists between Cuba and Puerto Rico that goes all the way back to the Spanish-American War there still exists elements of rivalry. I think that it might be explained in terms of territory and how it plays out in Florida.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

64. I Should Be More Precise

His mother was from Ponce...He was born in New York...Interestingly enough his father was Cuban/Irish and his last name was Kennedy...

[martymar64]

75. It's the same here in the USA

Except here its more like

White men > White Women > LGBT > Asians > Hispanics > Blacks > Indians

[Essene]

42. OK, i officially hate Clinton. This is disgusting

[goldcanyonaz]

45. It'll break her heart, but I'll break it to her gently.

[Essene]

50. Yea, laugh it off. This is how democrats lost the NYC 2001 Mayoral election

And if HIllary pulls off the nomination with this type of divisive campaigning, voter turn-out and voter interest in the democrays will sink SO MUCH that they could actually lose Congress.

Laugh it off... but it's absolutely disgraceful.

[jefferson_dem]

51. Hillary's supporters are known for their arrogance.

Thanks for serving as another fine exhibit.

[Essene]

77. Ive honestly never perceived this until lately

And i think these people will wake up when they realize what's really at stake (and they face the facts)

[mod mom]

49. Is Mark Penn pulling things out of his oversized ass again?

[dailykoff]

60. Just stirring the shit pot

so when they steal the '08 they'll have excuses.

[annie1]

82. i don't think so. i've read that several times before and heard it on the news...

etc.

[dailykoff]

52. What crap. Lots of hispanics are biracial

and could be considered black, and that includes lots of Spanish speakers from places like Dominican Republic and Ecuador. This is just a prelude to a massive vote suppression campaign that will later be spun as covert Hispanic racism or some such crap.

[Zynx]

56. After studying Latin American history for years this makes sense to me.

In many Latin American countries, those with black ancestry go out of their way to distance themselves from it. In Argentina, they actually went so far as to remove black as a choice on the census form in the late 19th century so they could claim to have no blacks. Similar things were seen in Central America and elsewhere. This has lessened in the modern era, but is certainly still there.

[dailykoff]

68. But we aren't talking about Latin America.

Entrenched racism is one of the things people emigrate to escape.

[Zynx]

69. Having witnessed the dueling racism in Milwaukee between

Hispanics and African Americans, if that is true that they were escaping racism, I sure haven't seen it.

[dailykoff]

83. I think that's a different issue.

Yes, black on brown gang violence in schools and prisons gets a lot of press, but I don't think this is the same thing at all.

[martymar64]

70. More race baiting by the Clinton Campaign

Watch for more of it. This bullshit is making me sympathize with Obama more and more every day. What are they going to do next? Start hanging nooses?

[IndianaGreen]

72. Bill Clinton began the race baiting on the Charlie Rose interview

The Clintons will do anything to regain the reins of power from the other ruling family, the Bushes.

[MollieBradford]

73. he shouldn't have said it

even if it is the truth. He should just have let it play out in the voting booth or caucus.

[killbotfactory]

74. That's okay, Obama isn't really black, remember?

[Cha]

84. hillary continues to be predictable

as well as the inevitable one(right?)..

Keep it up hillary..you're doin' what you're born to do.