Larry King is on a Mission to MARGINALIZE Kucinich in the Debate

[DemBones DemBones]

This is for those who are unable to see the debate, particularly for anyone interested in the comments being made about Larry King's treatment of Dennis Kucinich.

First of all, the freaking table is rectangular, Larry at the head with his back to the audience, the two other questioners at his left, the candidates on the right side of the table. Next to Larry is Kerry, then Edwards, then Sharpton, and Kucinich WAY down at the end of the table. It's not alphabetical, it's not by number of delegates (unless Sharpton has more than I know about), and I tend to doubt that it's done by drawing lots, since Edwards and Kerry are closest to the mods. If they said how seating was determined, I missed it and I was here watching at the beginning. Any IDIOT would know to use a round table if you don't want to give an appearance of showing favor. Maybe Larry never read "Knights of the ROUND Table."

DK has been marginalized all along by the media and, after reading David Podvin's article on Dean being systematically attacked by the media, I know WHY. Assuming that Podvin didn't make up his information, the media turned against Dean after he said in early December (on "Hardball," I believe) that he would break up media monopolies. Kucinich has talked about breaking up monopolies, including media monopolies, all along, so they won't let him say much.

The first question to all four was a variation on "Why are you running/ what do you offer" etc. Lots of time to Kerry & Edwards -- fair enough. Lots of time to Sharpton and no suggestion that Sharpton should leave the race. Larry asked DK why he was staying in when it's obvious he's losing -- words to that effect. He said "So you're just here to make a statement?" Larry interrupted two or three, maybe more, times when Dennis was speaking.

When DK tries to enter in, whether he raises his hand or says something, he is cut off. (All of them are interjecting and questioning each other to some degree.) Once, Larry addressed a question TO DK, Edwards interjected something (or mayb e it was Kerry) and after back & forth with him, DK was just left hanging for quite a bit, and then cut short when he finally got to answer.

After the commercial break, DK got the first question and got in a couple of good licks on the war.

Kerry interjected before Dennis was through, they talked back and forth a bit.
I don't think Dennis was through answering his question when Larry called on Al, who's taking to task those who voted for IWR.

DK asking all to join him in his proposal for single payer health care. Larry interjected it had been proposed before (he may have said by Truman -- it was hard to catch -- I'll run my TiVo back to it when there's another break or at the end.) Dennis continued for maybe three second and Larry AGAIN broke in with an interjection of "SOCIALISM." :mad:

DK IS getting big applause when he is allowed to say something. The others are also getting big applause when they say things that agree with DK's platform! I'm NOT saying they're stealing his ideas, just that what he stands for is drawing applause. It's a pretty good discussion between four Dems who agree on a lot of things but Larry has irritated me by his treatment of DK and some other

Larry just put Kerry and Edwards on the spot about immigrants being allowed to become president. Kerry said he hadn't thought about it, Larry acted incredulous about that, said "Think about it now," Kerry commented that it would mean his wife could be president and Larry went on to Edwards, who said he hadn't though about it, either. Al said he would be glad for Kerry's wife to become president after his presidency, getting a laugh.

DK got in some good shots in a segue after he answered the question on immigrants (he thinks immigrants who have been here a period of years and worked hard should be able to have the same rights as native-born Americans. but freaking Larry had to jump in and try to intercept, saying something about time. Dennis went on and finished and then Larry said we have about 15 minutes left, blah, blah.

After the commercial break, Kerry was answering a question already.

DK got big applause for his proposed kindergarten for ages 3, 4, and 5, where they could learn reading skills, social skills, and have a nutrition component, all funded by a 15% cut in the bloated Pentagon budget. After he finished, Larry immediately made a comment about time, and then the woman moderator said "Well, this is all very fine and good but how would you pay for all this?"

Dennis immediately smiled and said, "I just told you how I'd pay for it" and Al jumped in to say "He told you how he'd pay for it by cutting the Pentagon budget and cutting Bush's tax cuts would also give us more $$$, etc. " BIG applause.

Kerry, Edwards, and Sharpton were, as always, allowed more time than Kucinich. It'll be interesting to see the exact % each got when it's tabulated by one of the watchdogs.

AAAAEEEEEEEEEEE!!! I GOT BLISTERS ON ME FINGERS!!! ;-)

[jpgray]

1. King's moderation was 'Helter Skelter'--he got righteously booed (nt)

[John_H]

9. When was the booo. i didn't hear it. King needs to go away.

[jpgray]

26. When he conflated Dennis's health care plan with a 'socialist' boogeyman

It was an insult to his viewers and the audience who attended. Ansolutely disgraceful, but it proves that in our current system, you can't have an honest discussion about an issue with billions in profits.

[vanzetti77]

13. and didn't you just love the way...

the, uh, "moderators", tied a shiny little bow on the proceedings by drawing the TWO SERIOUS CANDIDATES(TM) into that cute little "who'll be the VP" sketch?:eyes:

I kept yelling at DK to jump into the mix, which he finally started to do near the end.

Frustrating, wasn't it?

[newyawker99]

44. Hi vanzetti77!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[littlejoe]

50. King IS an asshole, but Kucinich has done a good job of

marginalizing himself!

[ThirdWheelLegend]

53. oh my, what an ingenious slam! Oh and the evidence to back it up!

You are on a roll!

TWL

[mmm]

2. Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

just as we expected. Dennis and Al must stay in to the end.

[Sugarbleus]

3. LOL--->blisters. I think DK

Held his own under the circumstances. IMO, he is just the type of person who CAN endure when the odds are against him. I like him very much..........he has a whole lot of heart...and brains to go with.

I am VERY GLAD he didn't back out of this race. He and Al were huddled there at the end of the table jumping into the fray as often as they could. WTG Dennis and Al. The audience loved them.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

4. DK's anwer to "that's socialism" was

What we have now is predatory capitalism and he got a HUGE applause.

King is an ass!

They're on covering it now.

[RichM]

5. You're absolutely right in this account. King was utterly disgraceful.

He constantly interrupted Dennis on the few occasions when DK got a chance to speak. And when he spoke, King refused to pay any attention to what he said. He marginalized him by looking away, making noises, and starting NEW questions to Kerry, before DK was even done his answers. :grr:

Not that this was any surprise -- King is a maximum media whore.

PS - King did say "Truman" and "SOCIALISM." He said the latter very dismissively, as though pronouncing that word closed the entire discussion.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

7. Unfortunately they did it here

where Dennis got a huge round of applause with his response

[eridani]

32. So let him know about it already!

http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form5.html?12

[corporatewhore]

6. Lets see Fuck the NYTimes Fuck Ted koppel and now

Fuck Larry king and anybody tryin to mess w/DK

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

8. what about Kings "ethnic comment"?

Started with Kucinich telling King its up to the people to decide who is the best candidate, not the media, when King was implying that he wasnt a serious candidate or something.

Then there seemed like that was a bit of a testy exchange between King & Kucinich...apparently King was looking away or talking to someone else while Kucinich was talking to him, and Kucincih tried to get his attention, and King came back with "I can do two things at the same time, its an ethnic thing", or something.

That was pretty uncomfortable to watch.

Definetly some bad vibes there.

And the socialism comment, too. King getting booed by the audience.

[youngred]

12. he said it was a jewish thing

which turned into an exchange with Sharpton over ethnicity

[RichM]

17. Right, that was definitely very uncomfortable. King tried to play the

role of "entertaining personality," & at the same time, tried to push Kucinich into a defensive position. King's tone was as though Dennis had asserted that Jews couldn't "do two things at the same time," though of course no such subject had remotely been broached, until King forced it in.

What was going on here, I think, is that Dennis was communicating his concern that King was shuffling papers & didn't appear to be listening to him. King understood that rebuke - which was richly deserved - and tried to parry it with his own above-described bullshit.

[chester2003]

10. Welcome to the party.

Are you just now realizing that Larry King is a mental midget? Larry's whole premise for the debate was "you don't really count, so just be happy you are here".

[DemBones DemBones]

15. Well, chester2003, I've been a Democrat some forty years, and

at DU about three years, going on 8,000 posts, and have supported Dennis Kucinich since reading his "A Prayer for America" shortly after it was given two years ago, so I'm not sure what you mean about welcoming me to the party.

:shrug:

As for Larry King being a mental midget, I was of course aware of that. I was just surprised at how he treated Dennis vs. how he treated Al Sharpton. If he had marginalized both of them, it would have been more equitable.

[chester2003]

19. Relax

I don't mean you any ill will. I just mean that Larry is clueless. He looks at Sharpton as comic relief and Dennis as an unrealistic candidate. Why jump on Al, when he is there for fun, in Larry's eyes. Dennis was the only one trying to make the debate useful! It might as well have been on comedy central!

[youngred]

11. I am Furious

That was FUCKING ridiculous.

[PurityOfEssence]

14. So true. Kucinich parried the "socialism" smear beautifully

Why is Al Sharpton introduced before Kucinich? He doesn't have as many delegates, and since success and power seems to be the only thing respected in this nasty little gotchafest, that's wholly inconsistent. Is it that they love a man of the cloth more than a politician? Are they pandering to race? It's nothing but blatant demonizing; it's certainly harsher than mere marginalization.

What's truly wicked about the whole thing is that Kucinich is (although I disagree with a few things) a truly honorable guy, and his supporters have been truly decent as a group. It really is a further example of America's desire to crush goodness.

Kucinich got a thoroughly raw deal, and I'd have to say there was more skewering going on from the panel than in any other debate I can think of, except for Ted Koppel's memorable tirade.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

16. I was expecting somethin more like the Cheney/Lieberman thing.

..but there was, as you say, alot of skewring.

I liked Larrys attempt to "go around the hall" and have candidates respond, but then they ended up with a Kerry/Edwards thing, with the reporters jumping in...never getting to Sharpton or Kucinich.

In fact the only reason Sharpton got much face time is that he just jumped in and started talking....I think they where not going to ask him much, either.

[turnhardleft]

18. It was a right wing Q and A

That's why Kerry survived.

[lams712]

20. LARRY KING IS A GAPING ASSHOLE!!!!!!! n/t

[Exultant Democracy]

21. When Dennis said it was a choice for the people and not the media

all I could say was hell yeah.

[revcarol]

23. Boy did he get cut off fast then!!

Larry King will NEVER be watched in this household again.

CNN only when there is true breaking news as reported on DU. That's it.

[minkyboodle]

22. It broke my heart

I have endured Ted Koppel but at least DK was given a chance to rebutt and won in the end. I found tonights debate to be the most unfair of them all.
Scott

[revcarol]

24. Donkey kick.

Hoping some will watch the rerun and check the times, the number of questions that each was asked and the questions DK DIDN'T GET TO ANSWER.:kick:

[no name no slogan]

25. King is a bigger dickhead than I originally thought

talk about marginalizing-- hell, DK could hardly finish a sentence without that shriveled old dickhead talking over him. His comment about universal healthcare being "socialism" was WAY out of line, but DK handed him a great comeback, much to his chagrin.

Larry King needs to be put out with the frickin tide. He's useless as anything but a high-class Washington D.C. gossip columnist.

[Desertrose]

27. I was never more disgusted with any of these *debates*

if thats what you can call them, than I was with this one...

I knew it was gonna be an Edwards/Kerry show but as far as DK- this is the most blatant piece of crap I have ever ever seen. Larry King is a pathetic excuse for a human being and there is no excuse for him being the moderator.
damn...the way they treated Kucinich was shameful.

King's "socialist" remark was so over the top....Dennis' comeback was brilliant...."predatory capitalism"...and then they cut him off. Least King got booed!

Kerry (and Edwards) put me to sleep...what the hell would they have talked about with out Dennis & Al ?? BORING politico-speak!

I am not thrilled with "having" to vote for either one and even if I could combine them into one candidate...there is not enough I like to make a difference.....especially when there is Dennis.

I honestly don't know how DK can keep going on after being shut down all the time...but bless him for it. I'm sure tomorrow I will feel better but right now I am so disgusted and disappointed with the dems and that so many people seem happy with these bushlite dems.....

bless all you Kucinich supporters....and it is great to see so many more here on DU recently...thank you for seeing and supporting the best damn Dem candidate out there.....

I think I'll go to bed now and forget this miserable debate and Larry King's sour wrinkled old face...
Peace all
DR

watching rerun now...Dennis did great when he had the opportunity...damn I love this man...his heart & his perseverance :yourock:

[minkyboodle]

30. couldn't agree more

This debate got me pretty down but DU as usual is full of great DK supporters and observers so I'm hoping for ol tomorrow is another day feeling in a few hours..
Scott

[burrowowl]

28. Dennis got less time than

even AS.
However, DK and AS got the most applause, go figure!?
BECAUSE ... They are telling it like it is!
Will vote Dem, even though, as Helen Keller said: twiddle-dee, twiddle-dum. Dee or Dum might give a little more time to salvage things.
Which is which? Hopefully, the Dems will tend towards Dems again.
Long live the International!

[SEAburb]

29. They were seated in order of number of delegates /nt

>>>>>>><<<<<<

[jsw_81]

31. Face reality: Kucinich is NOT a serious candidate

In fact, he's a distraction and shouldn't even be on the same stage with real candidates like Kerry and Edwards. Sorry if that offends you, but it's almost March and we have to get serious about electing a president.

[revcarol]

41. The 70% who haven't voted yet would like to HAVE A SAY.

Your comments reflect badly on your candidate.

[littlejoe]

49. And why would the 70 percent that have yet to vote choose any

differently than the 30 percent that have already voted?

If history is any example, Kucinich AND Edwards will recieve an even SMALLER percentage of votes on Super Tuesday. The reason is because, as Kerry is percieved by more people as being the prohibitive favaorite, more people will naturally follow behind him.

[revcarol]

55. OFF WITH YOUR HEAD IF YOU WANT TO VOTE!!

All bow down to King Kerry.

Not enough that we have a wanna be dictator in the WH?
You can vote for a DEMOCRATIC KING.

There now, don't you feel better?:puke:

[snoochie]

58. And if history is any example, bush will steal it

after a marginal win by a milquetoast candidate.

So why even bother voting? Shouldn't we all just 'follow behind' bush?

Lovely example of groupthink, thanks!

[Hell Hath No Fury]

47. I'm out in California...

and I don't get to vote for my choice of candidates until next Tuesday. So don't tell me who I will or will not get a chance to vote for, thank-you-very-much.

Last night's debate showed me WHY Kucinich & Sharpton need to stay in until the bitter end -- without them there, there is no flow of ideas or challenge to the status quo.

Who got the most applause last night? Hint: it wasn't Kerry or Edwards.

They say what needs to be said, and for that I respect them both.

[Gretchen]

48. do not forget that Kerry was almost written off, too

It is amazing how quickly the American public forgets. It was not long ago when Kerry was doing very poorly in the polls and everyone thought Dean had it in nomination in the bag.

-Anything could still happen.

[burrowowl]

52. As AS said

they are staying in there to keep K and E honest.
And this is as it should be.

[WitchWay]

54. ...and also...

your commeents also show that you have an antipathy towards democracy.

[TruthWins]

33. Larry King and Joe Lieberman - Two of the Largest Heads in America n/t

[spooky3]

34. I couldn't stand to watch the whole thing. Kerry seemed to be given

all the time he wanted to speak. Edwards was CONSTANTLY interrupted after a sentence or two, by King or one of his two cronies. I got sick to death of hearing other voices talking on top of his. Kucinich and Sharpton were hardly asked a question.

[CWebster]

35. So true

I missed the beginning, but I really got the sense that Kucinich had to rush his words to get anything in of significant importance, when given a fleeting moment, while Kerry droned on with his boilerplate for eons.

[kiahzero]

36. Sharpton has more delegates than Kucinich

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/primaries/pages/scorecard/index.html

Sharpton: 16
Kucinich: 8

Might I make a suggestion not to assume things? You know what happens when you assume...

[DemBones DemBones]

40. After Hawaii, I think those figures have changed.

I may be wrong but CNN's site may be showing outdated information.


Might I make a suggestion to read more carefully before you accuse someone else of making an assumption?

Here is the pertinent excerpt from my initial post, with emphasis added for your convenience:


"It's not alphabetical, it's not by number of delegates (unless Sharpton has more than I know about), and I tend to doubt that it's done by drawing lots, since Edwards and Kerry are closest to the mods. If they said how seating was determined, I missed it and I was here watching at the beginning. Any IDIOT would know to use a round table if you don't want to give an appearance of showing favor. Maybe Larry never read "Knights of the ROUND Table."

[kiahzero]

42. Sorry, but you are wrong.

Looking at the CNN page, I see two things that should have tipped you off as to the 'date' of the information.

Updated: 5:08 p.m. EST February 26, 2004

and

Hawaii
February 24, 2004
17 0 1 --- 0 6 --- --- ---

Your first statement is logically true (since you included an OR)... however, you then ignore that branch of your statement (herein lies the assumption - you assumed that your memory was correct and Sharpton did not have more than Kucinich).

[diamondsoul]

45. Unfortunately, at this moment-

Sharpton has more CONFIRMED than Kucinich.

The Hawaii results have been altered since the original report of the final tally. Votes were pulled from Kucinich's tally and Kerry's tally went up. The campaign is looking into the matter very strongly.***please note there is NO accusation of wrongdoing or tampering here, merely an acknowledgement of a discrepancy which is being investigated.

Kucinich now has 6 confirmed delegates from Hawaii and 2 superdelegates leaving the definite number at 8 instead of 10. Final delegate counts from Maine are still pending at my last check.

[mac2]

56. He's been given more press and apparently more......

time to answer questions in the debates. Think about it. The RW want a REV. as a President (not this one but one down the road).

They want a theocracy to replace our democracy. They've said and shown that over and over. Supreme Court Judge Scalia admitted as much...church law above government.

If the RW remain in power...the next one might be. Bush is already our religious leader right? God has a mission for him to go to war in the ME. His Judo/Christian War.

The media act like Dennis is a joke! He's not. He's a threat to them. zHe wants democracy and open media.

Admit it...there's a religious war against democracy. All the religious organizations are fighting for it. Will it end up on the streets like in old Europe? We're seeing it tyranny with these politic ans right now.

[IndianaGreen]

37. Remember when King referred to Dennis's single payer as socialism?

The bias of Larry King was quite apparent particularly when Larry labeled as "socialism" Dennis Kucinich's proposal for single payer universal health insurance.

The media marginalized Dennis Kucinich and Al Sharpton beginning with Ted Koppel in the ABC News debate in which he referred to Dennis and Al as "vanity" candidates.

The format used in the CNN debate reinforced the marginalization of the two remaining real liberals in the campaign.

[Indiana Democrat]

38. Kicinich is polling at about 1%.

He's "Marginalized" himself.

[diamondsoul]

39. According to major media polls,

yes. Funny how the voting pattersn don't quite support that result anymore.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

43. Yes, his LOWEST showing last Tuesday was 7%

in Utah.

With Minnesota and California coming up next week, I'm going to go out on a limb and predict double digits in both states, especially in Minnesota, where we have an amazing local grassroots volunteer effort statewide. (dpbrown, no name no slogan, goodhue, and wheresthemind are all key players in this effort, I do what I can, and there are dozens more people organizing their communities in the Twin Cities alone.)

[diamondsoul]

46. I also predict Kerry

will not take Mass, but that Edwards will, then Kucinich in second, but I may be overly optimistic. I get the feeling Mass voters are not pleased with Kerry this time around.

[youngred]

51. That's a lie

but your answer isn't a surprise either :eyes:

[mac2]

57. You have got to be kidding!!!

Why because he chose to run under a real Democratic platform?