Shouldn't Dennis have fought harder to be heard, last night?

[RichM]

I support Dennis with wholehearted enthusiasm, am working hard for him, & have the greatest respect for him. I think he's endured his marginalization by the media with courage and dignity.

That said, I wish he had fought more aggressively to be heard, last night. By now, he knows perfectly well what dirty tricks the media will use upon him. Sharpton quickly recognized that Larry King was cutting him & Dennis out of the discussion; he responded forcefully, by simply refusing to be silenced (& by deliberately making his responses "extra-long," to send the message to King that he was not going to accept being shut up). I have to admit that I wish Dennis had done something like that -- perhaps using his considerable wit, along the lines of his zingers to Ted Koppel in the early December debate.

Does anyone else (particularly you Kucinich supporters out there) think he was too passive; too accepting of this outrageous & rude marginalization last night? I acknowledge that he got in a few good points, anyway - despite the abuse dished out to him by King, Brownstein & that dimwitted black woman journalist. Still, I would have much preferred to see him take a tougher tactical approach, last night.

[trumad]

1. I heard him just fine...

My God folks, what debate were you watching... The dude with 8 delegates had equal time to spout his Socialisim..;-)

[scarletwoman]

6. You know, for a supposed DEMOCRAT, to spout RW bs about a DEMOCRAT

is just plain unsconscionable! Are you proud of yourself that you can sling the "socialism" label just like Limbaugh?

Kucinich is a DEMOCRAT! If you don't like his platform, fine. But to use the rhetoric of the right to dis a fellow DEMOCRAT is really low!

I guess "big tent" doesn't mean sh*t to you. You want the Party to yourself, fine. Just see how well it does without the progressive wing -- 2000 ring a bell?

sw

[redqueen]

9. It's that 'coalition building' thing

They're working hard for unity! They still want your vote, y'see, and your time & money too!

Can't you tell?

[scarletwoman]

13. Well, they have my vote for KUCINICH, a DEMOCRAT!

And I've been willing all along to go with ABB in the general election, for the sake of our country.

But crap like this just makes it alot harder...

sw

[redqueen]

14. It sure does!

I'm so GLAD to live in Texas during this election!

[info being]

18. And 2002, and 2004 the way this is shaping up.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

23. "just shut up and vote for Kerry in the general"

That's the message, are we getting it? What are we going to do about it, complain on message boards?

[rhite5]

7. Correction: 10 delegates (2 in Maine, 8 in Hawaii)

[Freddie Stubbs]

16. Do you have a link to back up that assertion that DK won delegates in ME?

The last that I had seen he only had 14% of the delegates going to the state convention, which would mean that he would get zero national delegates.

[Freddie Stubbs]

28. Can anyone back that up?

[WI_DEM]

8. a STRONG DEMOCRAT and you call him a SOCIALIST

someone who has supported the progressive priniciples of FDR and represents his district as a DEMOCRAT in the house and has supported Democratic candidates at all levels. Hmm, this kind of attack sounds awfully freeperish to me.

[scarletwoman]

12. It's f**king OUTRAGEOUS!

I expect that kind of crap from right-wingers, but from someone who's supposedly one of US.... :mad:

sw

[trumad]

25. You guy's crack me up....

Let me give you a little clue about the wink Icon.... It denotes Sarcasm ..joke..joke...hint...hint..

You know it's funny...but when I planted that little sarcastic joke about DK and added the wink Icon, for a slight moment I thought there would be some knuckleheads that wouldn't get it and get their knees a jerkin... But then I said nah...surley they're smart enough to see it as a joke... Guess I was wrong!

[youngred]

30. so was Larry King Joking?

or just being a smarmy ass?

[RichM]

10. I appreciate hearing your opinions, because they illustrate so clearly the

degraded state of what today passes for a "Democrat."

[youngred]

29. Equal Time????

They didn't even let him answer half the questions, when he did he was interrupted all but ONE time after other candidates had been allowed to talk longer, and he has the temerity to speak up ONCE and he's being lambasted as "immature" "rude" and advocated against being at further debates.

[CWebster]

2. Sharpton has that commanding booming voice

He throws his weight behind it.

I missed the beginning of the debate but I don't think there is more Kucinich could've done other than jump on top of the table. He talked as fast as he could. The consensus of independent reports here didn't miss the obvious intent to silence him, if not dismiss him completely.

Anyone not conscious of the engineering of this entire thing isn't paying attention or doesn't want to see it.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

3. If he had fought harder to be heard

we would have been treated to scads of posters complaining that he was "shrill."

Believe me, it's gotten predictable.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

[burythehatchet]

4. I agree with you

Last night DK looked like he had given up. He doesn't say so but raising his hand to say something just sent a weak signal.

I'm still planning to vote for him

[revcarol]

5. When he tries, he is "shrill."

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. IN THE OPINION OF SOME.

THE SOME WHO DON'T WANT TO ADDRESS ANY OF THE MAJOR ISSUES, JUST TINKER AROUND THE EDGES AND FEED US PAP.

ON EDIT: Lydia, great minds think alike!!:eyes:

[mountebank]

11. Agree - but can't imagine what he could have done differently.

I agree that Sharpton was able to get his message across to some extent because of his booming voice and unbelievable ability to think on his feet. Kucinich, on the other hand, was polite, forceful within reason, and made his points when he could. I thought he was genuinely screwed by the format. I suppose he could have turned it around with a zinger or two, but I'm not sure.

I was watching with a friend who likes Kucinich but only really follows him through me, and he didn't think DK did very well. He didn't really blame the format, so whatever - that's probably how most people felt.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

15. He should have fought harder to be heard

But he ALSO should have gooten on point faster when he had the opportunity. King marginalized him from the beginning and when he did get chances to answer he didn't go straight to the point but for ONE time when King belted out the socialism point and Kucinich made his greatest retort of the evening....one which struck home to everyone based on audience applause.

He ALSO contradicted himself early on when he stated he's be proud to have either as a running mate,

Overall, King's responses to both Kucinich and Sharpton were dismissive especially when he cracked the "stay in the nation's finest hotels" which was downright RACIST.

The point IS Sharpton MADE himself be heard, and interjected when there was an opening, the one time Kucinich did it to Kerry...he made it easy to dismiss him since he could have shot right back and demanded an answer and turned it into a confrontation. He might not have had the support of the panel but he certainly, based on the applauds would have had the support of the audience and would have had a headline this morning.

[mountebank]

19. Agreed.

Very true - he could have gotten on point faster. He had to know his time would be limited.

[jpgray]

17. The moderating was just too lousy for him to be effective

He had a choice, either look like an asshole and butt in all the time, or be ignored almost utterly. He chose a mix, leaning heavily away from looking like an asshole, which is probably the best choice he could make under the circumstances. :(

At any rate, King ignored a pointed Kucinich response to Kerry on one hand, and denied him a chance to answer several questions all three other candidates got to answer, Kerry and Edwards by being the foci, and Sharpton by virtue of his long-practiced ability to force his way gracefully into any discussion.

So the mods failed far more than Kucinich.

[lams712]

20. NO

First, I think he did fine in the debate overall. I think if tried to be more assertive he would have been lambasted in the media.

[RichM]

22. Is being lambasted necessarily bad? Is it worse than being ignored?

When he skewered Koppel in December, I think he GAINED from it, overall. ABC cut off his lone campaign correspondent, but many people saw how courageous, witty, and truthful he was. I think on balance he won more from it than he lost.

[lams712]

24. YEAH, in way....

...it would be better to not get such negative press. But I see your point.

It is a double-edged sword. If he were more aggressive he would have been blasted. Instead, he looks polite, well-meaning, and I think most neutral people who watched the debate noticed how he is getting screwed by the media.

[sangh0]

21. So now you read minds?

...By now, he knows perfectly well what dirty tricks the media will use upon him. Sharpton quickly recognized that Larry King was cutting him & Dennis out of the discussion...deliberately making his responses "extra-long," to send the message...

I know Sharpton and even I don't know what he was thinking while up on that stage. How do you know what Sharpton was thinking?

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

26. pretty good observation about Sharpton

...yeah, he did have to muscle his way in, verbally.

Kucinich wasnt as agressive as Al.

[KamaAina]

27. He should have fought harder to be heard all year

although a lot of it is the fault of the corporate-owned "lib'rul media", which simply can't process someone like Dennis who exists completely outside their corporatist "reality".

[RichM]

31. Any other Kucinich supporters want to weigh in on this?

:shrug:

[scarletwoman]

32. I'd love to, but I don't have cable/satellite, so I didn't see the debate.

All I have to go on is what DUers have posted about it.

But, see? I've given your thread a kick, anyway! :D

sw

[RichM]

33. Well, thanks for that, sw.

You're lucky - and wise - that you don't have cable. Anyone who didn't see last night's spectacle is probably better off for it.

[scarletwoman]

35. You're welcome

Heh, I long ago decided there was no way I was going to pay money for even MORE TV that I can't stand to watch!

sw
:hi:

[mountebank]

34. Just saw him at UCLA today.

And to be honest, he seemed a little burnt-out. I mean, he was still saying the same great things, but when it came Q&A time, it just didn't seem like he was drawing from that great reservoir of passion that we all know he has.

I don't think there's a lot to be gained by going over every appearance with a fine-tooth comb, and he can't deliver a knock-out every time (while acknowledging that debates are very very important). Still, I don't know - maybe he's dragging a little right now.

But after Hawaii, he should have been energized. I mean, I know Hawaii is not so representative of the rest of the U.S., but he should have touted his showing there in response to King's first bullshit question. Something like: "When voters get to know me and the issues I represent, they support me - that's what happened in Hawaii."

[RichM]

37. Yeah, I've seen him a few times when he seems tired, or frazzled.

His schedule is absolutely bruising. Hawaii last weekend; California Monday; Massachusetts Tuesday & Wednesday, back to Calif on Thursday -- I don't see how anyone could do it, without losing sharpness & focus.

You're probably right that there's little to be gained with ye olde fine-toothed comb...

[revcarol]

36. I watched part of it(my TV had hiccups) and wished I hadn't.

Between what I watched and what I followed on DU, I think he did everything possible to get his message out. Let's face it: with that "moderator," snarky questions, John and John playing "this is a private club,"the table arrangement marginalizing the best candidates,Kerry interrupting him and sneering when he spoke, it's just amazing he didn't SELF-DESTRUCT.

He would have had to STAND ON THE TABLE AND YELL, to do any better.(A sort of Kruschev pounding his shoe on the table at the UN type act!!)Then he would have been FOREVER pilloried.

Just MHO.