Has DU turned Republican?

[littlejoe]

I understand that this site IS Democratic Underground, (emphasis on "underground") but is there no room for discussion on anything?

I don't think that the G.O.D. could trash our frontrunner as visciously or at as great a length as many of the DUer's here.

I think it necessary to say that John Kerry is NOT the enemy! Let me repeat: John Kerry is NOT the enemy!!!

I know that I was one of the people who lobbied to Skinner to take some of the restraints off. But not in my wildest dreams did I think that the level of discourse could reach a sub-human level.

I have put out what I consider to be logically laid out arguments in favor of getting behind my candidate.

In return, fountains of vitriolic sludge have spewed all over my beliefs.

Now, in fairness to all, not everyone acts in a childish way.

But, the level of bitterness from people whose candidates have either dropped out, or are lagging way behind in the primaries makes me wonder out loud: Are you really democrats? Or are you subversives and anarchists, only willing to upset any apple cart you see, in order to gain attention.

I would imagine that there are many mainstream and left leaning democrats on this site that feel similar to the way I do, concerning the behavior of some on this site.

It is this type of behavior that drives many good democrats away.

As for me? I'm not going anywhere. I choose to work for change from within the system.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

12. Ham sandwich. Did you think of that one yourself?

Outstanding.

[IndianaGreen]

45. Ham is not kosher!

and neither is Kerry!

[bahrbearian]

2. Not Republican..just don't want to go back to the Status Quo.

[trumad]

3. er...Clinton?

I'll go back to that Governance anyday...

[ThirdWheelLegend]

22. NAFTA...

Telecomm Deregulation, DMCA, Anti-Terrorism Act of 95(patriot act's beginning), Welfare Deform...

I would like more of that please!

Oh sure it can be said that it would be better than Bush, but why settle for corporate(D) instead of corporate(R) when you can fight for much better.

Primaries are still happening.


TWL

[trumad]

26. Oh please

Go out and get a gun, then go outside and shoot at the moon.... You have about as much a chance of hitting it as DK winning the Democratic Primary....

[ThirdWheelLegend]

30. Go Progress!!!!

I love the continual transfer of wealth upwards as much as the next CEO!

TWL

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ozone_man]

94. Stop thinking outside the box.

That is not encouraged here. Take the annointed republicrat candidate and be cease your whining. Laser beams my eye. ;-)

[Old and In the Way]

49. NAFTA really wasn't an issue under Clinton.

Jobs were being exported under his policies...but he was growing newer and better jobs faster than we were losing them.

It used to be a liberal, progressive thing to encourage growth of 3rd world economies so they could enjoy some of the financial benefits that we've enjoyed for the past 50 years. The reason we did support opening trade was fundemental: people who share in the economic pie make this a safer world for all. It seems like we are now blaming workers in 3rd world countries for the economic policy failures of the Republican Party.

[Sly Kal]

4. I think it's turning japanese, I really thing so

[Atman]

5. We would be more like republicans

if we just blindly followed the leader without question. That's what got us into this mess.

[Zynx]

6. Also, what's with the Dean hate?

Why are many of you guys even saying that Dean has no right to speak his mind anymore?

[indigo32]

7. vitriolic sludge

going many ways... and coming from you as well... you've not posted just logically laid out arguements.

[littlejoe]

15. I challenge you to come up with ONE thread that shows

me responding in a mean-spirited way!

[indigo32]

23. OK

heres but one


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=402671#403508

BTW I don't spend time bashing Kerry.

[littlejoe]

27. Vitriolic sludge? Is that the best you can do?

Because I see nothing wrong with pointing out the childish behavior of some people, as I did in that thread, and have done in this one.

[DuctapeFatwa]

8. I think you are just reacting to the fringe who oppose bush's policies

as well as disliking bush himself.

No need to worry about this small but shrill sector, plenty of time after the election to let the Patriot Act take care of them.

[foo_bar]

36. a strawman is not an argument

(I'm addressing the sincere narrator I sense lurking behind the sarcastic proponent of all things paranoiac. The faux American caricature won't be interested.)

Do you believe calls for "unity" at this early stage are tantamount to purges or concentration camps? Do you believe anything, or do you simply disbelieve strawmen of your own design?

[DuctapeFatwa]

62. If you disagree with Kerry's support of the Patriot Act, then we have

something in common.

I don't believe it is a "straw man." Are you suggesting that he is just pretending to support it in order to get elected?

I have heard that suggested about just every position of every candidate, personally I take them all at their word.

[BeyondGeography]

9. Kerry's big mistake is winning

He's especially misguided for having beat Howard Dean, the only true Democrat in creation.

And then he made the mistake of not letting Dennis Kucinich interrupt him in the debate last night. That was the last straw for the DK crowd. Their post-Hawaii distant second-place glow just vanished because of Kerry's egregious lack of indulgence.

And soon he will commit the cardinal sin of ending John Edwards' run at the nomination. That will earn him even more enmity at this board.

And, fyi: Kerry beat my guy, too. Wes Clark. He did naughty things like have Jean Shaheen call him a Republican. But, Wes is a big boy who's used to contact sports, even if he's not a politician. He's over it. And so am I.

[Gringo]

16. LOL!

NT

[trotsky]

18. Well said.

People here tend to forget that we here at DU DON'T represent the majority of Democrats, let alone the majority of Americans. Democrats in several states have spoken now, and their choice has overwhelmingly been Kerry. Is he my dream candidate? No way. Can I accept his candidacy? You bet your liberal ass!

<rant>

JESUS F'ING CHRIST PEOPLE WOULD YOU PLEASE GET OVER THE FACT THAT OTHER CANDIDATES HAVE JUST NOT DONE AS WELL WITH THE BREAD-AND-BUTTER DEMOCRATS WHO STILL MAKE UP THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE PARTY?!?!?

</rant>

[retyred]

20. No better reply is needed

THANK YOU! :yourock:



retyred in fla
“Good-Night Paul, Wherever You Are”
"The "ONLY" true Democrat from the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party"

So I read this book

[no name no slogan]

21. DK's "distant" second of 30%

was still higher than any of Clarks' finishes, FYI.

And don't rush to the corronation too soon. We've still got several big states who have not voted yet (Pennsylvania, California, New York, Florida, Ohio to name a few).

:D

[BeyondGeography]

25. Wes won Oklahoma

He's the only other candidate besides Edwards and Kerry to win a state.

He ran a good race. So has Dennis. It's some of his supporters' ever-so-thin skins that I'm alluding to above.

[littlejoe]

29. I understand what you are saying. Yet, we are getting off subject.

[Old and In the Way]

55. The cold hard truth BG.......

When the primaries started with 9 candidates, we should have remembered that supporters of 8/9 were not going to be happy with the end results. But this is a primary, not the GE. We are, at the end of the day, Democrats.

Perhaps it's because this is the 1st primary that's really been debated on the internet, we've been more insulated from the animosity in PE's past.

Or maybe it's the anonymity of the poster whose true intentions we can't know. :-)

[fjc]

10. I don't know about being Repubican, but this is my last post.

I think the rules here are far too stingent. They discourage the kind of heated debate that comes with the territory of politics and religion. I've asked them to discontinue my monthly donations. It's a good place to come and read the headlines from everywhere, but that's all.

[Old and In the Way]

60. Don't forget your ball.

see yeah! :hi:

[MoonAndSun]

11. The "loyalty oath" threads are one example of this board

experiencing a rightward turn at times. Also the "purges" threads and the "get over it" threads, etc.

[Old and In the Way]

65. Ah, the "rightward turn" meme.

2nd only to the "purges" and "get over it" and the "DLC = RNC" and "surface change only" memes.

[BradCKY]

13. I don't think so

I just think many of us are so excited at the prospect of actually winning this next election that you are seeing a huge ABB crowd.

Sure many of us like myself are more moderate, but I think thats a good thing since this board is supposed to accept all people on the left regardless of how far to that left they stand.

BTW people like myself never "hated" Dean (well personally) I just didn't think he would be a good matchup against Bush.

[Old and In the Way]

67. Some of us Kerry supporters even contributed $ to Dean's campaign.

I've never dissed HD....I actually appreciated the strong statements he was making last summer. I fully credit the Dr. for raising the necessary rhetorical bar that helped to frame the issues and reflect our extreme displeasure with the unelected fraud hanging in Al's White House.

But, Kerry has the credentials/experience to Indies and undecideds who populate the middle of the political landscape. He's our best candidate to win in November. End of story.

[donco6]

75. Like me.

I have over $400 to his campaign. Don't regret it, but ready to move on. Kerry's the obvious choice, which will be borne out in the remaining primaries.

[Gringo]

14. I agree. The anti-Kerry hate is way out of proportion to his shortcomings

But I'm still glad the restrictions were removed - it was totally out of hand. Honestly, just ignore that stuff. I haven't noticed the anti-Kerry vitriol as much because I just ignore that kind of post. I don't mind criticism - heck I've criticized him myself, but this ad hominem stuff about him not being a democrat, or some sort of total sellout or whatever is ridiculous.

[GreenPartyVoter]

19. I feel that way about the proportion of Nader hate here.

[MichaelHarris]

17. Nothing will drive me away

I've been a Democrat all my adult life. I will fight conservatism and the religious right even if I'm the only one here. I would "never take my toys" and leave in such an important battle. My wife and I thank the owners of this site for giving us a voice.

[maxanne]

24. and though

it's been said, many times, many ways....ABB to you.

It's like Groundhog Day when littlejoe is in the house.

[littlejoe]

31. I love you, maxanne! I don't even know you, but I love you!

[maxanne]

32. of course you do

I'm a sign that someone is paying attention to you.

[littlejoe]

34. lol!

[Kimber Scott]

28. That's why I use the ignore button

I couldn't think of the word, but you hit it on the head. Anarchists. Some people just love to hate a winner.

[Cuban_Liberal]

33. Could it possibly be the threads where you accuse...

everyone who is not 'behind Kerry' of 'helping Bush'? Like this one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=401608

Do ya think, littlejoe? :eyes:

[littlejoe]

37. You and I have an honest difference of opinion.

But to my recall, I have never attacked anyone personally with vile invective. I have always used logic and fact to make my point.

However, when attacked, I will naturally respond.

[Cuban_Liberal]

39. Oh, really?

Should I go through that thread and copy and paste some of the things you said and inferred about me (and Debi) yesterday, or should I just kick it and let people read it and decide for themselves? Care to share how many 'dings' you got from the Mods out of that thread?

[littlejoe]

40. As John Kerry says, "Bring it on!

[Cuban_Liberal]

41. LOL!

I think that answered the question well enough...:evilgrin:

PS--How many was it? Two? Three?

[littlejoe]

42. And let's be frank. I'm not interested in a peeing contest.

But I must warn you. You really don't want to get into a war of words or wits with me. I carry an arsenal with me.

[Cuban_Liberal]

43. I'm soooo scared.

Not! :eyes:

[Cuban_Liberal]

52. How, exactly, should I prepare to defend myself?

Grab a Webster's, so we can do dueling dictionaries? Garlic? A crucifix? What exactly is the protocol for these things? :P

[Padraig18]

68. Have a Roget's and BIG scoop shovel handy.

The shovel should prove especially useful, I wager...

[Forkboy]

46. lol

:scared:

When does that arsenal make an appearance?

[Cuban_Liberal]

48. LOL!

^5! :evilgrin:

[littlejoe]

53. Only when needed. I have no need for it yet.

[Cuban_Liberal]

54. We shall cower in fear, awaiting it's mighty appearance...

:eyes:

[littlejoe]

57. Thank you for proving the point of my thread!

[Cuban_Liberal]

58. Missed the 'eyes', huh?

I think the word 'sarcasm' is probably in that big ol' dictionary you said you'd read cover to cover... :eyes:

[littlejoe]

72. You have done a masterful job of defining yourself to

everyone here at DU. enough said!

[Padraig18]

76. Such rapier-like wit!

:eyes:

[Forkboy]

78. patience young grasshopper

he hasn't even broken into his arsenal of wit yet! A wit grenade could go off at any moment! :scared:

[Padraig18]

80. Oh, dear me!

Is this the part where we pretend to be in terror? :P

[Forkboy]

63. I think you need it now,more than ever

[Cuban_Liberal]

64. Can we go "Ooooo" and "Ahhhh" when it makes its appearance?

You know how people do on the 4th of July, when they watch the fireworks? :P

[Padraig18]

66. I knew those hip-waders would come in handy, some day.

It seems that today is that day... :eyes:

[littlejoe]

73. Have I hit a nerve, Padraig?

[Padraig18]

74. Just ibuprofen, thank you.

I'm healing well.

[Padraig18]

77. Nice edit

Apparently all those Mod warnings caught your attention...

[Forkboy]

79. what'd he say what'd he say??????

:evilgrin:

[Padraig18]

81. He asked if I was 'still on hard drugs'

Apparently being slapped around by the Mods has taught him SOME posting manners...

[littlejoe]

82. Having trouble keeping up with me?

[littlejoe]

83. You are wasting your time trying.

[Padraig18]

85. We enjoy it, actually.

It's like a cat toying with a mouse, before it kills it and eats it..

[Forkboy]

87. I think the tortoise could keep up

on edit-make that a tortoise going uphill in molasses on a hot summer day while Jimmy Stewart reads the Bagavhad Gita on it's back.

[reprehensor]

35. Oh, come on!

Freepers always say that.

Oh, come on!

Oh, come on!

[littlejoe]

38. Oh really? Sorry. I don't happen to have my freeper manual handy!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

44. Not handy...

But you know where it is?

[littlejoe]

50. The one you gave me?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

59. Yes. That one.

[BL_Zebub]

47. It's definitely turning DLC

And there's not a HELL of a lot of difference.

[hippiechick]

51. DU & democrats in general are operating from Fear

Fear of Bush
Fear of being bold
Fear of the "L" word
Fear of embracing the left/progressive wing of the party
Fear of defining the debate and calling Bush out into the daylight

... and Rove is lauging his hellbound ass off because we're all too chickenshit to stand our ground and challenge their propaganda.

As someone once said "You gotta stand for something, or you'll fall for anything."

I think this applies, yet again, to the Democratic Party and a large percentage of the voters. They've been scared into believing that ABB (aka Bush Lite) is the only thing to save them from the boogeyman named George Bush. Thus we prepare for 4 more years of mediocrity in the White House, regardless of which one is elected, and little or no reform of a system that is badly, badly broken and no longer serves the citizens it was designed to represent.

Sigh.

:hippie:

[littlejoe]

56. Except that in this case, we are not just "falling" for anyone.

We are lucky enough to have John Kerry. A man with principles; a man with gravitas; a man whose record on the environment is without peer!

If ABB meant John Edwards or Dennis Kucinich, then I would understand everyone's fear and trepidadion.

But with Kerry, we have an honest chance to win back the White House in the fall.

[hippiechick]

61. I wish I shared your enthusiasm n/t

:hippie:

[PVnRT]

70. PURGE! PURGE! PURGE!`

YOU WILL LOVE KERRY OR MAKE A VISIT TO THE MINISTRY OF TRUTH! THE THOUGHT POLICE WILL FIND YOU!

[Padraig18]

71. I have in my hand a list of non-Kerry supporters....

Scary mentality, isn't it? :scared:

[littlejoe]

84. Is that what you had in your hand? I thought it was something else!

[Padraig18]

86. I've seen posters come and I've seen posters go, and I'm still here...

To quote you, 'Bring it on!". I've eaten better wits than yours before breakfast, and spit out the stringy bits before I brushed my teeth afterwards...

[littlejoe]

88. We all have our cross to bear, but Padraig, getting a little touchy?

[Padraig18]

89. Not in the least, my friend.

It amuses me to toy with you...

[littlejoe]

I wish I could say the same. But after awhile childish behavior

bores me. I'm moving on. You have proven my point.

[Forkboy]

95. Now that we've tasted the lash of your wit

We'll know better than to cross words with you again.You taught us puny humans a lesson we'll never forget.

At least not in the next few minutes...

[Padraig18]

97. Can you handle him by yourself, Forkboy?

I've just gotten a more attractive offer from CL...:evilgrin:

[Forkboy]

99. I dunno

I'm withering under his mighty onslaught. :D

[Padraig18]

100. Courage, Camille!

CYA! :D

[Padraig18]

93. When do you plan to start?

I'll need 10 minutes to pop the popcorn.

[littlejoe]

90. You'll probably choke on mine. Give up now! Resistance is futile!

[Forkboy]

91. You're partly right

someone IS choking here...

[Padraig18]

92. LOL!

Mmmmm hmmmm.... yup, yup.... *fart*

[molly]

96. Looks that way - but wait

pugs are immature, whiney, stupid, and arrogant. We don't have of those here, do we?

[Forkboy]

101. er

http://www.mirrorselect.com/perl/frG?w500+h440+a1132+m1+f353

Beveled Mirror

This high-quality, custom-framed mirror is fitted with two sets of hanging hardware on the back, which allow it to hang vertically or horizontally. The mirror glass is 3/16" thick and has deep 1" bevels.

[littlejoe]

102. nawww!

[RichM]

98. It's Democratic, but that's not very different from Republican.

So, the fact that you'd get this impression is quite understandable.