Did You Miss the Passion? Is Dean Our Party's Christ?

[NewHampster]

I find the similarities between the movie and the Dean campaign to be striking. My apologies if I offend.

Jesus was a teacher(Rabbi) who's people were under colonial rule by an oppressive power. Through his teaching he created a passionate following that saw and understood "the truth". Other leaders of his community who had a comfortable status quo to protect, refused to listen, did not hear the truth and rather than welcome passion into their community they allowed their oppressor to kill the messenger.

Did our Pharisees fear the message of Governor Dean so much that they turned him over to the Republican controlled mob for flagellation and eventual Crucifixion?

Will we one day listen to Dean and recognize his passion as the saviour of the Democratic Party and the U.S.A.

small print: I refuse to give Mel Gibson a single dollar so I have not and will not see The Passion of The Christ until it's free and on cable.

[Muddleoftheroad]

1. You missed the third response

Outright laughter.

[molly]

2. Here it is ....LOL

[stopthegop]

28. no...I heard it...

[quinnox]

3. Might be going a smidgen too far

I don't expect to see Dean statues in public parks anytime soon, nor Mt. Rushmore remade into Dean's image. But hey, people are free to worship anything they like, including politicians. We have freedom of religion.

[MaineDem]

4. My initial reaction = offended

But now that you apologized up front I feel much much better.

:eyes:

[Bombtrack]

5. Dean was a cheap-shot loving, hostile, misleading demagogue

Christ was a good role model.

[molly]

7. Well said

[liberalnurse]

73. But, but, but......

kerry is an opportunistic political failure......he is a resume builder....not a liberal.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sly Kal]

14. certainly not

Did you ever hear of the concept of Projection?

[Nicholas_J]

26. And

He didn's scream much, by all accounts.

[liberalnurse]

72. Edwards supports apparently don't want

Dean supporters to vote Edwards on Tuesday......You are convincing me to vote Dean.

[polpilot]

77. ...that was anti-Iraqi War, anti-establishment, anti-DLC....how much worse

can a man be?????????????????

[King of New Orleans]

6. Hooray!

for Peter Pumpkinhead!

[littlejoe]

8. He was a politician who ran a lousy campaign. Nothing more.

He didn't make the grade, and washed out early.

But I'm sure if you ask many of his followers, he is the "messiah".

[mitchum]

9. LOL! You do realize that this post reads like a vicious satire...

by someone who considered the Dean movement to be a glassy-eyed cult, don't you? Or maybe you don't.

[Maddy McCall]

57. Oh the irony!

!!

:-)

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RetroLounge]

54. See post 30

[liberalnurse]

68. You are so accurate in your assessment!

Someone here at DU is scared of Dean.....Ha Ha Ha.....They can't even hang around to discuss the issues. Hit and run and cowardly behavior....No Guts.



You nailed it RetroLounge.

:yourock:

[slinkerwink]

67. tombstoned!

[anti-NAFTA]

12. He died (lost) for our sins.

He sacrificed himself to absolve the Democratic Party of its sins :( .

[H2O Man]

13. Yikes!

Alternative: Dean was John the Baptist; Dennis K. might be more of the "christ" figure. I wish DK would consider an alternative route in his campaign. If he were to undertake a hunger strike in the spirit of Chavez and Gandhi, perhaps in front of the White House, he might stir the conscience of the nation. He might also get hundreds, even thousands, of other determined individuals willing to accept suffering to rouse the nation.

[dsc]

15. A wee bit on the overboard side of life I must say

I think there is some validity to Dean as a prophet but that only goes so far.

[janx]

19. Yeah... it might be a little over the top...

[DFLforever]

16. Your analogy is interesting but I'll quibble on the details

Wellstone was like Jesus, Dean is like Paul.
Wellstone paid the price; Dean spread the message throughout the empire (then was beheaded).

[WLKjr]

17. exactly

I still say repugs killed wellstone.....the whole thing still seems fishy in the way he died and when.

Dean was just a victim of war politics. Kerry seemed to be very proud of Vietnam just as the caucases came around, when at other times he kept it quite like he was ashamed of it.

[buckeye1]

20. Dean is a loser.

His silly cheap theatrics only suckered the foolish. Be glad he was kicked to the gutter where he belongs. Where did the $40 million go?

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[newyawker99]

31. Hi WLKjr!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[King of New Orleans]

21. That may be the most inappropriate thing

ever said here. And that says alot.

[Kolesar]

23. that was not nice

when's the last time you stood out in a freezing rain campaigning for somebody you believed in anyway?

[kiahzero]

59. More than you know, that is an apt analogy

Paul took the teachings of Jesus and twisted them... Pauline Christianity was at odds with Church of Jerusalem, which theological study indicates was lead by Jesus' brother James.

The only reason Pauline Christianity won out is because Jerusalem was sacked, the Temple was destroyed, and the Church of Jerusalem lost its seat. The victory was sealed when the Roman Empire converted to Pauline Christianity, and deemed all other forms heresy.

Wellstone had a message that Dean took and twisted. Dean never was a liberal - he's just as moderate as JK or JE.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

22. Clever, I like it

If Dean's fans can organize themselves into a independent stable organization, they could save America.

[Capn Sunshine]

60. Reading these responses, I have to wonder if it's worth the trouble

The fact that these freeperesque boobs feel free to post their crap here is disheartening when one considers what DU used to be.

I can only take compfort in the fact that inthe Real world, they won't bother to vote. Until it comes to their home computer. Or is available at the 7-11. That covers about 99% of their world.

[Byronic]

24. He's not the Messiah!

He's a very naughty boy!

[AntiCoup2K4]

25. Howard Dean isn't the Son of God, but otherwise there are similarities....

Jesus challenged the Pharisees who had corrupted the teachings of Moses and the Prophets into something much different than it was originally.

Dean challenged the DLC corporatists who had corrupted the Democratic party and turned its leadership into George Bush Jr's prison bitch.

Jesus healed the sick and the lame. Dean attempted to heal the sickness and the lameness in this party.

Jesus made the blind see. Dean tried to open the eyes of Democrats blind to the corruption in their own party.

Jesus recognized the corruption of money changers in Solomon's Temple and threw them out. Howard recognized the corruption of corporations in politics and said he would throw them out.

Jesus said : He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do

Howard said: You have the power to take our country back.

The Pharisees knew that if they did not silence Christ, they would lose control of the people and lose the limited power they had under the Roman empire.

The DLC/DNC knew that if they did not silence Dean, they would lose control of the party and (in their minds anyway) lose the limited power they had under the Bush Criminal Empire.

That's just a few examples. And the worse Kerry looks, the more I'm wishing there could be a resurrection :(

[molly]

29. Really?

"Dean tried to open the eyes of Democrats blind to the corruption in their own party."

just in case you never saw this about your "savior"....

http://www.isreview.org/issues/32/dean.shtml

This article, very well researched, and footnoted! talks about Howard Dean pre-presidential run. It addresses his stances on many items of interest to this community throughout his years as governor of Vermont.

Snippets:

Though he has been dubbed a "raging liberal" by admirers and critics alike, Howard Dean governed Vermont strictly within the framework of the conservative Democratic Leadership Council.

Many people on the Vermont left see Dean’s current posture as politically motivated. "The notion that he is a liberal is ludicrous to those of us who worked with him in Vermont," said Terrill Bouricius, a former state representative.4 Dean admits that he recognized early on that the popular anger at Bush is "a raw energy, an energy that I know could be channeled."5

and

But such political maneuvering is nothing new for Dean. Upon becoming governor of Vermont in 1991, after the sudden death of then-Republican Governor Richard Snelling, Dean made a sharp turn to the right and pursued that course ever since. In his 11 years as governor, Dean would shift rightward on one position after another, all the while claiming to be concerned for the needy and less-fortunate, and disappointing all who thought they were getting someone who would govern from the liberal end of the political spectrum.

Dean inherited a massive deficit in the state budget from Snelling. Refusing to raise taxes on wealthier Vermonters (and rendering the tax system more regressive than previously), Dean declared in his first State of the State address that it would be his mission to balance the state budget with some "tough" cuts. Even though Vermont has no law requiring a balanced budget, Dean promised, "The pain for Vermonters will be real."7

Dean slashed millions of dollars from all sorts of social programs, from prescription drug benefits for Medicare recipients and heating assistance for poorer Vermonters to housing assistance funds. In defending his cuts to social programs, Dean said, "I don’t think I have to shy away from that just because I’m supposed to be a liberal Democrat."8

You owe it to yourself to check out this long, but very informative article

[littlejoe]

33. Now THAT is Bush-lite!

[polpilot]

79. Blam!!!! Blam!!!!! John Kerry by damn!!!!!!!!!!!!

...live & die by the sword...

Pro-war demo v. pro-war incumbent Repub..and the results are.......

[littlejoe]

81. John Kerry is not pro war. Why would you say something like that?

[NewHampster]

34. His Followers Don't Call Dean a Liberal

We call him honest and correct in telling the American people what is needed to fix our problems. In many ways he is much more conservative than the Repug administration.

I bet a poll of Deaniacs past and continuing will find that most had serious disagreements with Dean on certain policies but those can be overlooked due to the complete openness of his approach to every issue.

I for one hated his gun ownership stance and suppport of the NRA. But unlike right to lifers, I am not a one issue person.

[molly]

35. Complete openness?

didn't he sue to keep his records sealed?

[NewHampster]

38. Different issue

Oppenness in his approach to issues. Eyes open and any idea is considered.

Closing the books and records is something else entirely.

[AntiCoup2K4]

65. No, that was state policy, and Larry Klansman sued to have them opened up.

But there's another comparison to JC - You could say that His records were sealed as well, since we know nothing of His life between the ages of 12 and 30 :)

[KaraokeKarlton]

46. That "informative" article is a load of crap

I live in Vermont and virtually all of the negative "info" that has been said about Howard Dean is nothing but a load of nonsense that isn't true. The article you cited is no exception. It's all BS. Dean is a thousand times the leader John Kerry could ever hope to be. Hell will freeze over before I vote for John Kerry. He disgusts me to the core.

[molly]

48. Obviously - most of America disagrees with you

[KaraokeKarlton]

84. Not most of America, just most Democrats

The only reason Democrats are voting for Kerry is because they think just because he served in Vietnam that he is more electable. Fact of the matter is, Bush and Rove are going to eat him alive and spit him out in chunks. But hey, maybe after yet another four years of the diabolical George W. Bush the Democratic Party will finally get it through their thick heads that you don't beat Republicans in elections by trying to portray yourself as a "kinder, gentler" version of the GOP. Lucky for me, I live in Vermont, where Dean made sure things were nice and stable despite the mess Bush was making. :shrug:

[XanaDUer]

51. Don't want to intrude on your denial...

but the VT Supreme Court had to stop some of Dean's cuts to social programs, claiming some of what he did was unconstitutional.

Like his cuts to legal aid. He said that over 90% of people tried were guilty anyway.

Then Robert Appel (the defender general) received grant monies to make up for Governor Ho Ho's cuts, including 150 thousand-dollar grant for the mentally ill, and Dean refused to accept.

The courts made him.

Dean's revenge towards Appel, for daring to follow the Constitution, was to not re-appoint Appel to the office.

Dean was a two-bit huckster who believed the Bill of Rights favored criminals.

[KaraokeKarlton]

80. How about you produce the docket number of this supposed case?

You might also want to do some research on Vermont politics before you start telling Vermonters what is true about events where they live. :eyes:

[NewHampster]

32. Thanks AntiCoup2k

In the poll's original text I had the comparisons with the dlc, the media and the repugs then decided to leave them out and be intentionally vague. So much better for generating some good old, quality DU discussion.

:evilgrin:

[AntiCoup2K4]

71. No problem!

Now maybe we need a thread comparing the DLC to the Antichrist? ;)

[DrFunkenstein]

27. Crap! I Know Not What I Did!

I blame the, uh, media (wink wink).

[RetroLounge]

55. Did someone say Crap?

[DrFunkenstein]

63. Tasty!!!

And tasteful, too!

[earthsea wizard]

36. Dean affected a lot of positive change

But the "Dean as Christ" is as silly as those Dean detractors that call Dean "Your Messiah." No offense intended NewHampster :)

Neither serve to illustrate what Dean really did, IMO, which was to convince disaffected citizens that their vote could make a difference.

That's not Christ-like, but it is invaluable, just the same.

[NewHampster]

37. I didn't call him Christ

I'm just trying to state an analogy and because it involves Unquestionable Religious Faith thingys everybody thinks I see Dean as some sort of religious messiah.

Can't people separate your politics from your religion?

[earthsea wizard]

43. Dude! Read your original post's title!

It says "Is Dean Our Party's Christ?"

You didn't SAY he was Christ, but you proposed a similarity, and put forward points to support your assertion.

You brought religion into the debate, not me!

I think it was a little silly, but not offensive. I feel the same about Dean detractors that imply that Dean started a cult, and call him "your messiah."

It's all nonsense, ultimately, and it all detracts from Dean's real successes.

[NewHampster]

45. You're correct

Thank you, sincerely, and I apologize for the wording but not the comparison. I do admit I worded the title as much to attract attention as anything else. Just the little devil in me.


;-)

[earthsea wizard]

49. No sweat!

Dean rocks, I wish he was still in the race!

Until he dropped into inactivity, I was a Dean supporter. Guess I'll push for Edwards, though I don't feel energized by his campaign.

My primary is past history, and I voted Dean. If folks ask, I'm Dean/Edwards/ABB, in that order.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

39. This is exactly why I couldn't get on board with Dean in may ways

The messianic approach some people have to him scares me as much as the messianic approach some have to Bush....which is valid since they are both pretty much authoritarian in their governing style

[NewHampster]

40. And who made you god of Graphs

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

42. oops! Did I forget to genuflect when you mentioned his name?

FYI, you can learn more about the "sign of the cross" here

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

[NewHampster]

44. Now That is interesting but not infallible

I fall Economic Left/Right: -6.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.13

Very much to the left of all the candidates. But it doesn't take into account pragmatism or intelligence. It also is left leaning in its questions.

[NoPasaran]

50. I see---The graph is the True Cross

Spooky

[Maddy McCall]

85. You are really into the deities today, aren't you...

Dean is Christ
NSMA is God

Who's the holy spirit?

[jonnyblitz]

41. it's interesting where Edwards is located on that graph also.

:hi:

[mitchum]

52. "Jesus sealed"

[nightperson]

53. Jesus Christ,

so to speak, what would that make us Kerry supporters? Centurions, bring me the nails! Could the martyrdom vibe be ratcheted up any higher? Whatevvvvvver. I wash my hands. I'm just glad Shoah wasn't released this primary season. :P :evilgrin: :smoke: :nuke: :headbang: }( :nuke:

[Maddy McCall]

56. And some Dean supporters wondered why some people here viewed the Dean

camp as "cultish."

:eyes:

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Maddy McCall]

86. Yeah, and the most astute of them rejected the arrogant, predictable,

impotent candidate they once supported.

[robbedvoter]

58. On how many levels is this offensive? (and I am not even a Christian) eom

[Scoopie]

75. I am a Christian

And I agree with you Robbed.
We can't come in here and say a bad word about candidates who we don't support, but someone can come in here and compare Dr. Dean to Christ? Or a PRESIDENTIAL campaign to the life of a SAVIOR and PROPHET??
Cripes!
:wtf:
That is so offensive on more levels than I can even imagine.
Compare Mother Teresa or St. Joan, if you like - they, at least, strove to be Jesus-like in their actions and words; however, comparing a very rich man who has been mostly self-serving to the most compassionate, honorable, dedicated, loving, God-like teacher that ever walked the earth is blasphemy (for you non-Christians, I'm sure your religion would teach that he was, if not the son of God, then a marvelous and honorable prophet).
As much as I adore Wes Clark, I wouldn't call his presidential run Christ-like.
Geesch!
I hope, for the sake of other Deanies on this board, that this person doesn't represent the lot of you. If he or she does, then I suggest you need counseling for your followers.
And, I hope no Republican ever sees this post because that would do more to denegrate the Democratic Party than that nonesense bullsh*t e-mail that's going around alleging Bush has "a calmness" because of his "faith."
:mad:

[Edwards4President]

90. Hear, hear!

You expressed what I was struggling to say.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

61. I don't miss the passion

I'm a Kucinich supporter. :-)

[liberalnurse]

62. Dean is a "gift" to America.

Wake-Up America.

[Maddy McCall]

82. Looks like America rejected "the gift"

[mzmolly]

64. I like your style NH

:hi:

[WillyT]

66. Somebody Once Said Dean Is More 'John The Baptist'...

But what do I know, I'm a friggin atheist!

However, if Bush does win a second term, I understand that the GOP and the DLC are gonna throw a bash where Condi Rice will do the Dance Of The Seven Veils and deliver Dean's head on a platter so that both parties can put an end to this populist grassroots nonsense.

Have you heard that too???

:evilgrin:

[Armand]

70. Dean is another candidate who lost.

And don't compare a human being to my Savior Jesus.

[nightperson]

74. If we're going to keep upping the ante like this,

I should direct your attention to this hot ad the Kerry campaign has cooked up: http://www.churchofsatan.com/. Join us today!

[jsw_81]

76. Dean=Christ?

I'm not religious, but it's absolutely INSANE to even think about comparing Dean to Jesus Christ. Christ founded a religion that has shaped humanity for twenty centuries; Dean is a former governor of a tiny American state who ran for president, lost in a landslide, and will be forgotten twenty years from now.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

78. Crikey!

[David Zephyr]

83. Seems Some Missed "The Passion of Dean"

From February 19th right here at the good old DU by your humble servant, DZ.

*****************************

"Move Over Mel Gibson: Here's "The Passion of Dean."

"Hi. I'm Howard Dean and I represent the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party." Remember that?

Those were some of the most refreshing words I could have heard early last year from the good Governor of Vermont. Someone had heard us! Someone had sensed our great anger. It was as if someone had grabbed the national public address system and announced there would be revolution in the cafeteria during lunch break.

Doctor Dean became Prophet Dean. He became the voice of one crying in the wilderness against a stupid war. He railed against tax cuts for the lords and rulers. He barked about punitive new laws against teachers. And he raised his voice against the vilest legislation in the last 100 years: the Patriot Act. No doubt about it: Howard Dean's meteoric rise was a direct response to his channeling our passion, anger and disillusionment.

And Dean shook up the landscape like a prophet of old, calling down fires from the heavens and slaying the demons of compromise and fear of the king. But, we all know what happens to prophets who point out the error of their own people's ways, don't we?

Damn. We were a mighty tall sunflower, weren’t we?

But in the darkened, musky and dank hallways of power, the whispers of disapproval had become a snarling roar.

And what a roar! “How dare this rabble insinuate that we are pro-war? How dare these outsiders suggest that we are anything less than caring, liberal, pacifists? How dare them call us "Bush Lite"? And for just a brief moment, Canadian blood pressure medications were reported to be outselling Viagra within the sacred halls of Congress.

Yes, the entire Washington Establishment including the Washington Democrats and the DLC were not exactly, how shall we say, humored any longer by the fact that one their very own had gone off the reservation and was telling tales out of school. “Good God, man, he’s talking about us!” Something had to be done. Things were simply getting way out of hand.

And so, it was then that the long knives came out and were distributed. Everyone dutifully knew what role they would have to play in the slaying of the Prophet.

"Let it be clearly understood that at any minute," it was said, "this mad Prophet Dean might arrive with his swelling mob of the dispossessed and dismissed carrying palm leaves and screaming hosanna, hosanna and cross over the Potomac and sweep us and our privileges all away. Stop him we must. Stop him, now!"

And then, from a place called Iowa came the scream from our prophet. They were killing him. The prophet’s scream was played over and over throughout the land so as to make certain that we all understood that he had been sacrificed.

And so, dear friends, yes they paid us back. Perhaps we poked our fingers in their eyes just a few times too many. In any event, they rolled us. We never had a chance.

And so here many of us are now: bloodied and hanging outside the walls of the city, strung up high in the air so that all who pass by us are certain to get the message, "Don't Mess With Al From and the DLC, Baby".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=366579

[NewHampster]

87. Thank you David

I did in fact miss your original post. You do the story of Dean quite well, thank you.

You do understand that as disciples of Dean it is our obligation to tell this story over and over and over again. It should be reposted weekly if not more often thus keeping hope alive.

[Monte Carlo]

88. Uhhh... no, he was not Christ...

... or any equivalent thereof. He is a mortal, just like everybody else, and that's all I have to say.

[John_H]

89. LOL! My all time fav DU poll!!!