The late Molly Ivins said, regarding Hillary, ..

[Hieronymus]

Liberal syndicated columnist Molly Ivins wrote a piece in January 2006 entitled "I will not support Hillary Clinton for president." She summarizes factions within the Democractic party and argues that Clinton is "Republican-lite."

[MonkeyFunk]

1. As much as I love Ivins

she supported Nader, too. So her grasp of realpolitik was lacking. But she was a great writer.

[John Q. Citizen]

32. But her grasp of ethics wasn't lacking at all.

[MonkeyFunk]

34. And I'm sure she had great sense in home decor, too

but what's that got to do with the price of firewood in Colorado?

[Little Star]

45. Did she speak well of Obama?

[kenfrequed]

39. Realpolitik?

Really?

Clinton aside (despite the thread this appears on) what would be the realpolitik position on this election? Or rather what would be the realpolitik position on the issues of the day?

I apologize for getting so annoyed about that one particular term, but I think that basing our decisions in such a manner is a recipe for absolute disaster and dissolution of the party. One could either presume that the term means what it did classically in Germany or one could go with the more modernist-kissinger use of the term (which is by way of how it came into use in the USA).

If one were to approach it from the classical sense than it merely means politics of the realistic. Pragmatic, yes but realistic, and if democratic then clearly requiring an increase in populism, which, if one looks at the way people rate the issues, demands a massive swing to the left.

If one were to go with the Kissinger approach than it becomes power politics and triangulation in which the ends justify the means. However there are obvious limitations to this, as most people interested in politics actually do have things they want and rarely want them compromised as much. The left has been so compromised by the right that they have no positions that can be compromised at all. And the Kissinger approach actually would demand that there be in existence at least two (or more) powerful bargaining postures with a goal towards moving towards the advantage of the Democratic party and the issues that are represented.

The Triangulation though seems to have mostly cleaved against populism and liberal-progressive sorts and towards corporatism to the degree that the left wing of the democratic party has largely been ignored and so with it all issues that attract poor and working class voters.

[THUNDER HANDS]

2. you have to admire her, she's sticking to her pledge

she's currently not supporting her.

[Tarheel_Dem]

5. ....

:spank:

[soleft]

14. Dude...

[THUNDER HANDS]

16. i know, i know

:spank:

[ClericJohnPreston]

3. Too bad

she never saw Obama and his "bi-partisanship" coming.

I'm an Edwards supporter all the way, but Obama's Conservatism is worse than Hillary.

[liberalnurse]

4. She was wrong this time.........

I doubt if she ever met Hillary Clinton. If she had, then, I believe her opinion would be a bit more flattering. Meeting Hillary Clinton made the difference for me.

[saracat]

9. Molly certainly did meet Hillary and spoke about it. I met Hillary too,

and it confirmed what I didn't like.If have am forced to, I will vote for her but with no enthusiasm. She may be the lesser of two evils but not by much.

[Hieronymus]

17. I have met many far right wing republicans, and had ongoing

conversations. They were charming, for the most part, but I despised their politics.

[Fresh_Start]

6. More of her quote

"I can’t see a damn soul in D.C. except Russ Feingold who is even worth considering for President. The rest of them seem to me so poisonously in hock to this system of legalized bribery they can’t even see straight."

I have to admit, I wondered why the hell we didn't have Feingold running. Cause with all the sniping around here, Feingold was the only name that seemed pure enough

http://www.progressive.org/mag_ivins0306

[Hieronymus]

15. Thanks for the additional information.

[Fresh_Start]

18. your welcom, as you can see she was not a fan of Obama or Unity politics

I think the Reagan tribute would have had quite a column from her if she were still alive

[Mythsaje]

21. The way he lit into Edwards

I rather wondered that myself.

[OzarkDem]

25. DC Dems protect each other - its a club

regardless of qualifications, ethics, skill level, party loyalty,ideology even if it isn't good for the party or the country.

I wouldn't judge a candidate's worth simply based on an endorsement by a fellow Dem Senator. Pretty meaningless for most of us.

[Mythsaje]

27. That was my thought as well...

Edwards is now an outsider. And the argument that he could have done all that AS a senator doesn't wash with me. He left the Senate on purpose. It seems quite possible that he saw the corruption there and saw a better path for himself and the country.

[Kucinich4America]

23. Feingold thought he would best serve in the Senate.

I'd have to agree that he's definitely needed there. Barbara Boxer said basically the same thing. We need more like them in the Senate and less Nelsons, Landrieus, Cantwells, and Lieberdouches.

[John Q. Citizen]

31. Pure and purity is another word for ethics. And different people hold different ethics.

What I have found is when someone levels the charge that someone else is so politically pure, what they really mean is that their own ethical system differs from who they are leveling the charge at.

Using "pure" as the adjective sounds so much more dispariging than if the person said something like, "well that's just because you have ethics I don't share," or "Your insistance on ethics is great, but we have an election to win."

By the way, I'm not sayng you do that, but your post got me thinking of what in fact the words political purity actually means.

"I have to admit, I wondered why the hell we didn't have Feingold running. Cause with all the sniping around here, Feingold was the only name that seemed ethical enough."

It does change the tenor of the statement.

[Fresh_Start]

36. No, I meant pure

because I don't assume that every single person in DC is ethically lacking
and I don't think all the issues they face are either easy or straightforward

I guess I mean pure like ivory soap 99.9% pure. Feingold has fewer switchbacks in his voting record.
I don't think that those with switchbacks (flip-flops) are unethical.
I think most changes in thinking may have evolved over time.
Hell I personally live with second guessing in my personal life.
And I change my opinion, even about important things.

[MethuenProgressive]

7. If Molly knew she was running against Barack Obama, she'd change her mind.

Molly always hated constructed candidates.

[Fresh_Start]

10. Her column excluded Obama as well

I can’t see a damn soul in D.C. except Russ Feingold who is even worth considering for President. The rest of them seem to me so poisonously in hock to this system of legalized bribery they can’t even see straight.

http://www.progressive.org/mag_ivins0306

[Fresh_Start]

12. and it probably excluded Edwards even though he wasn't

in DC any longer

[freesqueeze]

24. Thank you for the link...

This was a time when most liberals were gagging over the complacent Dems in DC. Hillary was not the only one climbing up Bush's bum on Iraq.

I followed Molly from the DTH to the FWST and I greatly miss her wonderful controlled anger.

Hard to sugar-coat her anti-Hillary angst...

"What happens now is not up to the has-beens in Washington who run this party. It is up to us. So let’s get off our butts and start building a progressive movement that can block the nomination of Hillary Clinton or any other candidate who supposedly has 'all the money sewed up.'"

Going with the established power's candidate is how the GOP ended up with the current flop in the White House.

[LanternWaste]

28. I would love, love LOVE (did I say love?) to see Fiengold run.

Not that I think the rest are poisoned or some such, but I would love, love LOVE (did I say love?) to see Fiengold run! He'd be the candidate with 100% of my support.

[saracat]

19. Molly liked Edwards! She said. "damn, that boy has a populist streak I like.he is worth watching"

[Fresh_Start]

22. that makes me happy

I'm supporting Edwards to the bitter end

[OzarkDem]

26. Good enough for me

Molly knew the problems with DC Dems.

[Fresh_Start]

29. More Molly on Edwards

John Edwards in the early appearances struck me as almost a little too pretty, a little lite. But he's got a populist streak I like--his daddy spent thirty-seven years working in a North Carolina mill, and Edwards ain't forgot it. Seemed to me he might develop. In a recent speech at Georgetown University, the sumbitch hit a home run. (Look it up).

[mzmolly]

35. "Seemed to me he might develop."

Indeed he did. Now if he could win a primary or two ???? ;)

[IndianaGreen]

8. It was a great column by Molly!

The working class people in this country lost a great champion when Molly died.

[antigop]

11. Molly was right. Absolutely 100% correct. n/t

[antigop]

13. Here is a link.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=331090&mesg_id=331090

[wyldwolf]

20. she also told people to vote for Nader over Gore

[Hieronymus]

37. Many Liberals did vote for Nader [Unfortunately, he was third party]...

Edwards is not.

[TriMetFan]

30. As a Texan.

I miss Molly, but she was not alway right. She supported Nader.

[mzmolly]

33. She would have come around in the GE. She has said "Vote with your heart in the primary and with

your head in the general."

[antigop]

38. Maybe not...Molly said she did not support Hillary for president. n/t

[mzmolly]

40. She didn't support Kerry in the primary race, but she voted for him in the GE.

http://www.thinkingpeace.com/pages/arts2/arts263.html Though I don't like to attempt to speak for the dead, I feel that she would have supported the nominee.

[antigop]

42. Molly was a liberal. I'm not so sure she'd vote for a DLC leader n/t

[mzmolly]

44. She was a liberal who understood the serious damage the Republican Party

was capable of. She was good friends with Ann Richards who was close to the Clinton's. Again, we can debate over her position from the great beyond, but I think it's in poor taste.

[antigop]

46. She had a conscience.... if it's in poor taste, why do you keep bringing it up? n/t

[mzmolly]

47. Yes she did, which is why I feel she would support the nominee. However, I didn't start

the conversation, I simply responded to it. Your username "antigop" is a bit contrary if you don't agree with the notion of supporting the Democratic nominee, no?

[antigop]

48. I am a progressive independent...and you brought up how Molly would vote in the GE

There is nothing contrary about my handle.

[mzmolly]

50. I think your handle is contrary.

"antidem" is what you're advocating here.

[antigop]

52. No, it's not. You can think whatever you want but there is nothing contrary in my handle. n/t

[antigop]

49. And I'm not convinced Molly would have voted DLC this time n/t

[mzmolly]

51. Define "DLC" for me.

What does that label mean in your world?

[antigop]

54. It's been described a lot on DU. No need for me to explain. Besides I don't want to hijack the OP

and it's time for me to go to bed.

If you don't know what the DLC is and what it stands for after all of this time on DU, then I think you've missed a lot of what has been discussed in great detail here.


'nite.

[mzmolly]

55. Oh, I know what the DLC is. I just wonder if all those who invoke the initials along with the term

"status quo" have an actual idea.

G'Night :hi:

[DemCam]

41. Only thing I've never agreed with Molly on...

[jlake]

43. Just imagine what she would say about Obama if she knew how he'd turn out...

[ursi]

53. Speaking truth, that's Molly Ivins! May she rest in peace!